project 2002 Renault Clio II 172

[Faker]

On 7/17/2020 at 9:23 AM, SiC said:

Forgot to mention about my thoughts in the suspension...

Mine is completely stock. Handles great while actually being quite comfortable. Actually one of the most comfortably sprung cars out of all what I own! Over rough surfaces, you can still feel the road but it's not jarring. I genuinely can't see why I'd want it lowered. Unless I had super smooth roads around here, lowering it would make is uncomfortable while slowing it down as well. 

My 172 had aftermarket lowering springs fitted when I got it, look was ok but not a pleasant ride. A mate had a cup, with cup springs - which were lower than standard 172, handled better, and still managed to be comfy. Supposedly they were eibach 25 or 30mm springs. Fitted a set and they transformed my car.

[SiC]

Two weeks in and 200 miles of ownership later... ??

[Split_Pin]

Meh, youre getting off lightly!

The connectors probably just need a clean under the seat.

How are you finding it otherwise?

[SiC]

99% sure it is that connector. Happened after getting in from the petrol station. Wife did move the seat the other day though. 

I really need to find a replacement bung or glue something over that hole. Under the seats are drenched from driving it yesterday. 

[Split_Pin]

Yeah nothing worse than the smell of damp carpets!

I think that's why the Minis airbag light comes on because my wife has the seat right forward and I have it half way back. I usually slide it much further in annoyance though as my feet get trapped under the pedals when I swing in. I don't know how she drives it like that.

[SiC]

Throughly enjoy driving it. One of my favourite all round cars and pretty much all the car I really need except for long journeys. Would like the idle a bit smoother though as seems a tad worse than others I've been in. 

Looking through the history it looks to have had a set of plugs, HT leads and coil pack at 131k then replaced again at 142k. Bit weird. Second receipt had PF6RE hand written on it and from a different garage. Possibly misfired 10k miles later and owner suspected the first garage used crap/cheap/incorrect parts. 

Have noticed this has the black connector and looks original:

For those that aren't aware, this is the Crank Sensor that detects TDC and used for ignition timing. Extremely prone to failing on this era Renault (petrol Clio/Mégane/Laguna/etc all affected) and when they do, the engine cuts out and won't restart until cooled off. Or extremely reluctant to start too. Also can cause rough running. 

Many just replace the sensor. The actual fault is actually the connector. Renault realised this and released a new version with a new wiring loom connector. To differentiate been the two, the new one has a blue connector. 

So this one has done extremely well! But given the failure is sudden, I'd rather not be stuck by the side of the road with it broken. Going to order a genuine Renault Sensor and connector to replace it. Not cheap at £80 but well worth it. 

[SiC]

Not the error code I expected! Shows that it pays to read error codes and not start guessing. Cycled the switch on the passenger door and the light went away. 
I really ought to get this app back on the Google Play store again.

[Split_Pin]

2 hours ago, SiC said:

Throughly enjoy driving it. One of my favourite all round cars and pretty much all the car I really need except for long journeys. Would like the idle a bit smoother though as seems a tad worse than others I've been in. 

Looking through the history it looks to have had a set of plugs, HT leads and coil pack at 131k then replaced again at 142k. Bit weird. Second receipt had PF6RE hand written on it and from a different garage. Possibly misfired 10k miles later and owner suspected the first garage used crap/cheap/incorrect parts. 

Have noticed this has the black connector and looks original:

For those that aren't aware, this is the Crank Sensor that detects TDC and used for ignition timing. Extremely prone to failing on this era Renault (petrol Clio/Mégane/Laguna/etc all affected) and when they do, the engine cuts out and won't restart until cooled off. Or extremely reluctant to start too. Also can cause rough running. 

Many just replace the sensor. The actual fault is actually the connector. Renault realised this and released a new version with a new wiring loom connector. To differentiate been the two, the new one has a blue connector. 

So this one has done extremely well! But given the failure is sudden, I'd rather not be stuck by the side of the road with it broken. Going to order a genuine Renault Sensor and connector to replace it. Not cheap at £80 but well worth it. 

File the end with a bit of Emery paper first, it's probably just dirty. My old Megane had the same issue when I got it, that sorted it for the rest of its days.

[SiC]

Just now, Split_Pin said:

File the end with a bit of Emery paper first. My old Megane had the same issue when I got it, that sorted it for the rest of its days.

Yeah done that already but didn't mention. 

Also worth splaying out the legs in the connector ever so slightly to improve the electrical contact in those dodgy connectors. Usually gets you out of a spot of bother if you can't get a sensor immediately. 

Tried my local Renault dealer for a new genuine and they were out of stock. Likewise Renault UK were too and it would have to come from France! Also many of the parts are starting to be NLA - even troublesome stuff like the UCH. Something to bear in mind if anyone is reading this thread that are thinking they should get a 172/182 before they become expensive to buy and hard to get parts for. Renault are a bit notorious for dropping support for models pretty rapidly after 15+ years. 

[Split_Pin]

Also remember that the entire suspension and subframe is specific to Sport models and even then there are fundamental differences between Cup and non cup and 172 and 182 models.

Sites like ECP and Autodoc are useless. KAM racing is meant to be the place to go.

I had a nightmare finding bottom arms but I did strike gold on eBay for a great condition subframe and nearly new bottom arms for £100.

[bigfella2]

Don't rule places out like autodoc, if you do a bit of research and part number crunching you should be ok. 

Ordered a new cup driveshaft for my 182, different to standard 172 and boggo 182, as it's longer, abs ring wider etc.

Wasn't expecting it to be correct, even paid extra for safe order, but it looks same length, and fits. I haven't driven it yet so it could still shit itself at any moment.

 

[Split_Pin]

You got lucky then, I ordered bottom arms from Autodoc which were definitely* for a 172 but they were for a standard Clio.

KAM racing will give you what you need without the faffing around

[bigfella2]

What's the problem with the lower arms? Or have I missed something.

[Split_Pin]

They are specific to 172/182s. The bolt holes for the anti roll bar are different to standard Clios.

Edit: Could be for the balljoints as the ARB doesn't connect to the arms as you know but I'm sure something caused that to not line up as well, I can't recall what my garage told me on the phone now. I supplied them with arms from Autodoc which turned out to be normal 1.2 items. I was a big bit unhappy there!

[SiC]

One UCH (body computer)


Oh dear


Oh dear oh dear


This doesn't look good.


The funny shaped square PCB traces are the antennas for the remote central locking. Which makes this chip the receiver chip for it.

Cleaned up with some IPA. Looks like there are a few whiskers growing between pins. Also the top left pins look like they've broken off the package.


On the back a trace was lost. I did try soldering a jumper wire.


Still no worky. Looks like I'll need a new UCH. Unfortunately NLA from Renault now, so will need to be a second hand job. Thankfully these are easy to get to the EEPROM that stores all the immobiliser data, so don't need to swap anything else.

Even if I could get it working, there is probably other damage elsewhere. Given second hand UCH can currently be had for £40, it makes sense to replace them while still easily got.

[dome]

Do these need coded to the car/key or are they plug and play?

[SiC]

Do these need coded to the car/key or are they plug and play?

They contain the immobiliser data. However that's stored on an EEPROM on the board. So you can suck the data that out of one and squirt the data into the new one. The UCH then just thinks it's the same unit.

Alternatively put a virgin dump on the EEPROM and then code it in as if it was new. But that's more faff than just copying the data across and requires a CLIP.

[Split_Pin]

I always hoped the UCH on mine wouldn't give issues, thankfully it never did .

You certainly seemed prepared for this one though! Nice work.

[Tamworthbay]

5 hours ago, SiC said:

One UCH (body computer)


Oh dear


Oh dear oh dear


This doesn't look good.


The funny shaped square PCB traces are the antennas for the remote central locking. Which makes this chip the receiver chip for it.

Cleaned up with some IPA. Looks like there are a few whiskers growing between pins. Also the top left pins look like they've broken off the package.


On the back a trace was lost. I did try soldering a jumper wire.


Still no worky. Looks like I'll need a new UCH. Unfortunately NLA from Renault now, so will need to be a second hand job. Thankfully these are easy to get to the EEPROM that stores all the immobiliser data, so don't need to swap anything else.

Even if I could get it working, there is probably other damage elsewhere. Given second hand UCH can currently be had for £40, it makes sense to replace them while still easily got.

Cleaned with IPA? Is there nothing the wondrous fluid that is beer can’t do? ?????

[SiC]

Cleaned with IPA? Is there nothing the wondrous fluid that is beer can’t do?

You don't want to be drinking this IPA!

[Tamworthbay]

4 minutes ago, SiC said:

You don't want to be drinking this IPA!

? Depends how long this Covid thing goes on!  We used to get it in 200l drums when I was atAstra- Zeneca. We got sent home one day when one leaked, I had the worst ‘hangover’ I have ever had off that!

[SiC]

4 hours ago, Split_Pin said:

I always hoped the UCH on mine wouldn't give issues, thankfully it never did .

You certainly seemed prepared for this one though! Nice work.

They're the easy* fixes!

@dome does your Clio loving mate have many spares? Want to get a close to full electrical bench setup if I can. So loom, modules, etc. Doesn't matter if they're buggered or not. 

[dome]

1 hour ago, SiC said:

They're the easy* fixes!

@dome does your Clio loving mate have many spares? Want to get a close to full electrical bench setup if I can. So loom, modules, etc. Doesn't matter if they're buggered or not. 

I can ask him. Are you basically wanting a full Clios worth of electrics? loom, modules and all ECUs?

That's a whole lot of shonk right there.

[SiC]

I can ask him. Are you basically wanting a full Clios worth of electrics? loom, modules and all ECUs?
That's a whole lot of shonk right there.

Ideally! I'm thinking it might be more economical to just break a Clio though...

Possibly an ECU set and a complete engine + passenger compartment loom would be enough. Most of the other modules are pretty cheap to get on eBay. Stuff like ABS pumps, airbag modules, clocks, etc all can be had for around a tenner delivered. Just a bit more convenient to have it all in a box and not have to try selling other remaining bits.

[Split_Pin]

That's a lot of arsebiscuitry just to have working central locking....or are other things playing up?

[SiC]

That's a lot of arsebiscuitry just to have working central locking....or are other things playing up?

Oh probably didn't make it clear. Thinking of bringing Oh No! Reno back. But instead of trying to target loads of models and only error codes, targeting RenaultSport models with much deeper coverage. E.g. steering angle calibration, ABS pump priming, etc. Stuff that I'm experimenting doing I don't want to do on a running car as some actions are a bit intrusive (e.g. soldering test wires in modules) and a car is quite a annoying thing to risk bricking on your drive when playing around.

 

[SiC]

The thought of bringing it back was spurred on by the Airbag light coming on when out. Airbag light not too much of a big issue but if stuff like the throttle body starts playing silly buggers, it trips into failsafe mode. This is revving to 3k and having no throttle pedal response. Even if the throttle body starts working again, it won't exit that failsafe mode until the codes are reset. Not useful thing when you're relying on a car...

With a diagnostic app, lob a ELM327 in the port, hit read codes to double check and then clear codes to allow you get on your way.

In other news, just had an offer accepted for a new (second hand) UCH. The seller offers to recode your existing one in if you send it to them. However I rather not have a car immobile when I can do it myself. So made the offer on the basis of that, which was accepted.


Only difference is that this is a UCH-N3 (N1 lowest spec, N2 mid level and N3 high). This should be compatible with all others but my module is an older UCH-HG. These were phased out by the 2001 facelift but some cars still got them. Will see if a straight copy does the trick. If not it'll be an ECU set instead (UCH, engine ECU and key).

[purplebargeken]

Si, when do you want to Clio fettle?

[Jenson Velcro]

Sorry,  but an electro-numpty here. There seems to be a lot of electrickery in that box. What functions does it control? I presume the engine is controlled by a separate Ecu?

[SiC]

2 hours ago, Jenson Velcro said:

Sorry,  but an electro-numpty here. There seems to be a lot of electrickery in that box. What functions does it control? I presume the engine is controlled by a separate Ecu?

UCH is French for body control module. So does the remote central locking, lights (including auto functionality), flashes indicators, wipers (including auto functionality), etc. There isn't much in the way of electronics in a Clio. Engine ECU, uch, airbag, both electric windows, abs and radio. Then climate control if specced, headlight ECU if xenons. About it really. 

A humdrum Vectra C in comparison has the same as the above but also a fuse box ECU under the bonnet, a rear electrical centre in the boot, steering column ECU, ECU in each door for windows and mirrors, etc.  So vastly more complex network.