1977 Princess 1.8 HL

[phil_lihp]

Hmm...well, I will find out soon whether the one I've got fits.  

I also found when I ran the car for the first time after the exhaust change that the squeak I thought was the alternator is still present - that's annoying as it means it must be the new old stock waterpump, so I will get another one of those in too.  The alternator was completely shot anyway so it had to be replaced whatever but I was rather hoping it was the cause of the noise.

[phil_lihp]

10 hours ago, vulgalour said:

Sseems a bit of an odd revision really, you'd think making a batch of different pipes would make more sense than reworking the radiators.

Something something British Leyland something something not my job.

[somewhatfoolish]

8 hours ago, phil_lihp said:

Hmm...well, I will find out soon whether the one I've got fits.  

I also found when I ran the car for the first time after the exhaust change that the squeak I thought was the alternator is still present - that's annoying as it means it must be the new old stock waterpump, so I will get another one of those in too.  The alternator was completely shot anyway so it had to be replaced whatever but I was rather hoping it was the cause of the noise.

Loosen off or remove the belt and fire it up to confirm first though, it would be annoying to discover it wasn't that afterward.

[phil_lihp]

I already have - it's fine without the belt on and the same noise is present with old and new alternators.  Loosening the belt just makes it slip and switches one problem for another.  Waterpumps are cheap enough, I've picked up another one to try.

[somewhatfoolish]

Reading over my shoulder the old man has just suggested trying some vegetable oil(a few spoons, not a bottle!) in the coolant to see if it helps; I doubt it will.

[phil_lihp]

That's a new one on me!

[somewhatfoolish]

If I thought there was much hope of any of it getting anywhere near the waterpump seal I'd say give it a try, but I'm doubtful. In any case the noise is more likely to be the bearing.

[phil_lihp]

Sorry, wall of text incoming as I forgot to get any photos but I've had a silly grin on my face for the last couple of hours because after another tinkering session this afternoon I finally managed to get out for an actual drive in it!

Today's plan was to fit replacement waterpump no.2, a NOS Unipart item which spun much easier than the last one and felt like a heavier, better quality item.   I replaced the top coolant hose with the O-series version to fit the O-series radiator I ended up with. which unfortunately was about an inch too short to reach the thermostat comfortably on the 1.8 - this was resolved permanently* by unbolting the top radiator mounts, allowing it to tilt back enough for the hose to seat properly.  I then zip-tied the mounts on to keep the radiator stable, it's not ideal but it does work OK and will suffice until I can get the right sized generic hose to fit.

My mate than popped round for another socially distant assist and we rejigged the exhaust with another tin can to seal up the centre joint.  First start showed it is now much, much quieter and you can actually hear the engine - the only issue was the 30 year old corrosion protection on the new front pipe which took a few minutes to burn off and smelled quite dreadful.

A few short runs up and down the road and a few goes at bleeding most of the air out of the cooling system all went a bit wrong when the alternator belt started squealing and it took several attempts and eventually referring to the Haynes manual to find that the belt needed to be what I would consider to be extremely tight - 1/2 inch deflection - which once achieved did shut it up.  I'm not convinced the belt on it is much cop, it appears to be new from when the car was first woken up but I will probably get hold of a spare one anyway.

With that sorted, there was only one thing for it...a cautious test drive.  I chose a route which involved back roads and lanes through tiny villages thinking it would be 'safer' for a first try than the busier main roads near my house but I had forgotten that the route was extremely hilly.  Nonetheless, she performed well, the temperature stayed cool (my new fan seems to work a treat) and eventually, after stopping off at a mate's house where his 8 year old daughter assessed it as "smelling funny" I got brave enough to hit the A386.  Much to my surprise there were no real issues, she got up to 55mph without too much fuss and drama, didn't make any particularly strange noises and in the end I looped back round and ended up doing about 15 miles.  Not bad for her first proper trip out since 1992.

So what's next?  Well, the timing and carb need proper adjustment, while it would run without choke when warmed up, it would bog down hard and popped and banged through the inlet until given all the choke, which made it idle fast but drive adequately.  It's definitely not giving its best performance by a long shot yet but now it's driving OK I can get my tame mechanic to tune it properly.  The suspension is of course very low, has very little travel and hence the wheel camber is a bit 'stanced' so he's going to introduce it to his hydragas pump - at the moment it's very bumpy and handles quite poorly, although it does go round corners well!  He'll also weld up the one hole in the floor and give it a general going over.

Now I can drive it, it can also go to a local windscreen place who are going to fit the new seal for me.  After that I just intend to keep adding the miles on, ironing out any further snags as they crop up and eventually the next stage will be sorting out the various cosmetic issues, mainly the rust holes in the C pillars and valance for a starter.

Happy days!     

[vulgalour]

Congratulations!

[Ben_O]

What a result.

Been watching your progress quietly as I have a secret like for these.

First thought was wouldn't that look ace restored but now I'm liking the saggy scruffy used look a lot.

Keep up the nice work

 

Ben 

[phil_lihp]

Thanks, I'm going to keep taking it out for little trips over the next week or so, it needs to be used!  I'm excited to get the suspension and tuning sorted now, that will hopefully make a big difference.

[phil_lihp]

I'm not quite sure how he managed to get such a low-res video from a modern iPhone but my friend recorded evidence of its first run up and down my road after the exhaust was fitted.  This is the first time it has run without a blown exhaust and squealing alternator so it was a novelty to actually be able to hear the engine.  I also treated it to a can of BP Ultimate as I gathered that some higher octane fuel might help it out if it's still tuned for 4 star.  It definitely ran better.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Z_NufSDgSEuzHLDfzgQcswWYMTtvBgvs/view?usp=sharing

 

[phil_lihp]

Tonight's test drive report: FAIL.

Flat battery - the teeny little Lion thing that the last owner put in it appears to have died, it did start for a few seconds but by times I'd mucked around with the choke and it'd stalled there wasn't enough left to fire up again.  It's been fairly hopeless since day 1 and doesn't respond to charging very well, I think it's probably undersized as well.  The car's off to the windscreen fitter first thing tomorrow morning so an early morning trip to ECP is on the cards for something with superior CCA and the ability to hold a charge for more than a day.

[vulgalour]

Don't write off the old battery straight away, if the wiring for the radio or rear lights has been messed about with there's a high chance you've got some random shenanigans going on that'll flatten the battery overnight, even if it's a fully charged good one.  Wonder how I know about that particular issue...

[phil_lihp]

It may not even be that old but my guess is the faulty alternator might have killed it, when it's put on charge overnight it doesn't last very long for starting the car if it doesn't go first try.  It has a date chart on the top but it's not been filled in so I don't know how old it is.  It's undersized anyway and this car seems to need a strong battery, it fires much faster with a jump start.  We'll see, I'm off to my local ECP shortly to pick up a bigger one with more electricities in it,

[phil_lihp]

Just had a phone call, my expensive new seal which came from a batch the owner's club had made up has been fitted successfully.  The windscreen didn't break and it went well.  They found a couple of small rust holes in the drainage channel but nothing serious, they're filled up with sealant so shouldn't present an issue for now.  I'm quite relieved!

After fitting the new battery the drive across town in rush hour to their workshop turned out to be stress free, even when I got halfway and realised I hadn't actually put the seal in the car and had to go back home and get it.  The driveway looks odd without the Princess parked on it, should be able to pick it up tomorrow afternoon and then it's in to my mechanic on Friday for suspension, tuning and welding.   

[Shite Ron]

I am enjoying following your progress with this and looking forward to seeing it at the correct ride height. You would not be welcome on retro rides though! Stance innit bro

[phil_lihp]

It looks alright but the ride is crap!

[phil_lihp]

Look who's managed to complete 3 trips now without exploding!

I picked it up from the windscreen fitters today, they have done an amazing job, it fits perfectly and they even managed to find the correct totally not fake chrome insert - the old one was a brittle yellow thing with bits missing. 

I am very pleased and it only cost £60 which I think is a bargain, the other quote I got was twice that.

I celebrated with a detour to a petrol station for £20 of BP Ultimate as the fuel gauge doesn't work so I have no idea a) how much is in the tank or b) how many mpgs she's currently doing - I suspect probably not many until the timing and carb are tweaked. 

On leaving the petrol station the fanbelt decided to go full screech on me again - it would only quieten down on a low idle but that meant dropping the choke off which made it stall on a busy roundabout.  Ooops.  Got it going again and screeched the 2 miles home.  Parked it on the road, left it idling while I moved my Octavia off the driveway to park, backed it onto the driveway and only then realised it'd got a bit hot. 

Ooops.  I usually watch the gauge like a hawk but took my eye off it for a few minutes too long.  There was a gush of steam and lots of bubbling noises, I had visions of a blown off hose or something worse but it turned out to be just overflow out of the header tank.  It doesn't look like my new fan kicked in and I also think it might be spinning the wrong way so will have to attend to that.  I reckon it probably still had airlocks too, it's fine out on the open road but at low speeds or when stopped the temperature climbs until you turn the heating on.  It's still on the old thermostat, I have a new one to go in but the stat housing is welded together so I haven't wanted to start bashing at it yet.

[vulgalour]

Did they redo the black strip on the bottom of the screen?  Looks a really nice job does that.

[phil_lihp]

Nope that's how it was before.  I'm really impressed, they're a national chain franchise but they're known locally for being particularly helpful and good with old cars.

[vulgalour]

Who did you use?  I don't fancy doing the screen and seal on mine and it looks like they're a good bet.

[phil_lihp]

National Windscreens in Barnstaple, might be a bit of a trek for you but maybe your local branch might be decent.

[vulgalour]

I shall find out at some point soon.  Cheers.

[phil_lihp]

I've had some excellent Princess news - I dropped it off at my mechanic on Friday and he set to work on it yesterday morning.  Despite being a bit sceptical to begin with - I do realise that first impressions count and this car's first impression is "what the bloody hell happened to the paint?" - he has given it his seal of approval, pronounced it to be remarkably solid and made some significant improvements.

He has told me it now runs spot on - he's replaced the points, which were 30+ years old and closed up, adjusted the timing which was 15deg out and corrected the mixture which was far too weak.  As he said, it was amazing it ran at all like that, never mind as well as it did.  The only part of the ignition system I hadn't changed up to this point was the points and condenser, on the basis that they still worked so I had just cleaned the points.  I had a new set ready to go on but they were cheapy chinese ones and I suspected they'd be poorer quality than the ones already on it.  My mechanic got round this by finding some NOS 1980s Lucas points for it, and he also stuck a new alternator belt on it, the one on it seemed newish but had stretched and wouldn't stay quiet.  Today he's welding up the only hole I found in the passenger side floor.  I can't wait to see how it drives now that it's running properly.

Just before it went in I also replaced the coil with a nice gold Lucas Sport unit - the old one still works so that's been thrown in the spares box.

I also replaced the knackered bonnet struts.  Following a lead from a post on the Princess club forum,  I bought a pair of Maestro boot struts and sure enough they were a perfect fit.  No more plank of wood!

After a lengthy thought process I've decided to go all-in on the next job the car needs, watch this space.

[danthecapriman]

Great progress so far on this, you must be well happy with it!

Consider getting some cavity wax and underbody wax or similar on it ASAP though, if it’s solid now you want it to stay that way. It’s a horrible messy job but worth it.

[phil_lihp]

Good shout - it's plastered in underseal which has probably been what saved it but yes, you're right, some more won't hurt.

[egg]

This has been a brilliant resurrection fred, and really, relatively smooth so far given the context of the machine and its history. 

Just thinking of the context of BL in 1977...

Quote

In Leyland Cars in the first six months of 1977 there had been 304 disputes which had led to the loss of 9,086,000 man hours and a vehicle production loss of 117,394. After the toolmakers strike, Leyland Cars had made surprisingly good progress but, in August 1977 it found itself back on the ropes again as a six week strike at components supplier Lucas, by 1200 of its own toolmakers, began to bite.

https://www.aronline.co.uk/history/british-leyland-the-grand-illusion/history-british-leyland-grand-illusion-part-four/

[danthecapriman]

I was wondering this, but never really thought to ask or even look for the answer, but...

What is the deal with these nowadays as far as the suspension is concerned? I mean it’s great while/if it works, but what happens if it doesn’t? Can you get anything to replace the displacers anymore? It’s not like replacing a normal spring that you can pick up easy enough. Even if your stuck to using salvaged good parts from dead cars that supply must be drying up by now?

 

 

[RobT]

40 minutes ago, danthecapriman said:

Can you get anything to replace the displacers anymore?

I think the best or only option nowadays is to get them recharged with nitrogen.  There's a few places that offer the service.  £110 per Hydragas can, or £95 for Hydrolastic from here:

https://hydragasandhydrolasticservice.com/hydragas-service/

Hydragas displacer units gradually lose their gas over time, which is perfectly normal. When new the charge of gas was expected to last a maximum of 15 years which was the estimated life span of the car. No provision was provided by the manufacturers to replace the gas and many of the units are now over 30 years old.  Most are so low on gas that the ride quality they give is now severely compromised and low gas also heightens the chance of unit failure.