Another Scrappage victim..........

[Rusty Pelican]

I just find the whole scrappage / new car / get into more dept thing so bloody infuriating

[brammy777]

  Rusty Pelican said:

I just find the whole scrappage / new car / get into more dept thing so bloody infuriating

As we all know, its a short term soloution to something more serious.But thatll be the next governments problem wont it.Its sending out a bad message to people though, especially younger ones.So your item works, but your offered a shiny new one for a little bit less if you get rid of the perfectly fine working one. Of course, you go for it, unaware that the new one will cost you more.I hate how people say, oh but getting these new cars will help the motor parts trade and all the garages fixing them. Nope, older cars are where the moneys at.At the end of the day, its just the government and car makes taking advantage of stupid people who want to keep up appearances by showing off shiny new things. No ones judging you on your car (at least not people you want to know), im sure youll look far worse on the M25 hardshoulder swearing and unaware of what to do when your shiny new thing breaks down. Shame, because you knew your old one inside out.

[andrew e]

Its not the scheme though, its the owners PX'ing....

[Angrydicky]

I'd love a Mayflower, they're so shite they're cool

[andrew e]

Do you reckon Bangle had one on a poster as a small child

[trigger]

My dad was telling me today about a chap that we have known for ever is talking about trading in his old Jag for scrappage.It's a grey G reg Jaguar 4.0 Sovereign auto that he's had since new, It's only done 50k and has a years mot and tax, Full Jaguar service history and not a speck of rust on it, It's been undercover in a barn since new.Seems such a shame to scrap it but like he said, It's not worth £2000 and the garage wouldn't knock any money of the new car to make up for any losses he would make if he sold it privately.But there can't be many mint XJ40's left.

[pogweasel]

  trigger said:

My dad was telling me today about a chap that we have known for ever is talking about trading in his old Jag for scrappage.It's a grey G reg Jaguar 4.0 Sovereign auto that he's had since new, It's only done 50k and has a years mot and tax, Full Jaguar service history and not a speck of rust on it, It's been undercover in a barn since new.Seems such a shame to scrap it but like he said, It's not worth £2000 and the garage wouldn't knock any money of the new car to make up for any losses he would make if he sold it privately.But there can't be many mint XJ40's left.

Hmm, I reckon with some hardcore polishing, some lovely pics and a decent write up you would get way more than £2000 for that if it's as good as you make out.

[trigger]

It is mint Pog but we was looking on ebay earlier and although they all have a lot more miles on them they was all selling for between £500-£1000, I'm not sure weather the fact that his has a sunroof rather than Air Con would make a lot of differents though.It's definately Doctor material.

[Pete-M]

  trigger said:

the fact that his has a sunroof rather than Air Con would make a lot of difference though.

Ah, I've got a buyer for a nice Jag, but that has just killed it completely. Especially when you can get the prettier, better made and more reliable X300s for a grand.That and my personal hatrid for sunroofs and love for aircon.

[pogweasel]

Ebay is for scrooges. Classic & Sportscar, JEC magazine etc, know your market and pitch accordingly.

[trigger]

That is the problem, You can get the later model for cheaper.I just rang my old chap to tell his friend that I'll give it a try on ebay first, I'm think along the lines of what Pog said, If i give it a good valet, some nice photos and a decent write up with a reserve of £2000 you might find a collecter who's after one of the last proper Jags.It's got to be worth a shot rather then just scrapping it without trying.

  pogweasel said:

Ebay is for scrooges. Classic & Sportscar, JEC magazine etc, know your market and pitch accordingly.

Good point, might try that as well, I see if he says yes first, (Fingers crossed).

[RedSparrow]

  andrew e said:

Triumph Mayflower anyone?

 

http://www.aronline.co.uk/cgi-bin/forum ... &start=200

THIS IS A JOKE ISN'T IT??!!!

 

I fucking despair.

[CortinaDave]

Not off the dvla computer yet,which means the paperwork's not gone through, so still saveable if anyone were so inclined

[FredTransit]

I really do blame the dealers. Yes, the owners are offering them, but if the dealers just give em a discount and not put em in for scrppage, they could be sold on. It's a scheme, not a law. it's a marketing scheme at that, if the dealer sells the cars, who cares how?

[Mr Lobster]

I see what you mean Fred, but the thing is, on the type of cars being bought on the scrappage scheme the dealers margin is tiny - literally a few hundred quid if that on a new, small car so the dealer just can't give much discount. Most dealers are just interested in staying in business, if this helps then thats all they car about. Yes they could offer a discount to the value of the p/x and then resell that but it's an awful lot more risk / work for them so they won't bother in most cases.There are very few dealers making money on selling new cars. From what I have heard there are some franchises (Chrysler / Jeep / Chevrolet / Proton and one or two others) that are essentially not viable on their own.

[trigger]

I spoke to a Suzuki dealer yesterday and i asked him what discount he could do on a new Alto if i was to pay cash, He said the only discount they can do is £300 as the profit is so small, Hence why the £2000 scrappage scheme is so popular.

[FredTransit]

  trigger said:

I spoke to a Suzuki dealer yesterday and i asked him what discount he could do on a new Alto if i was to pay cash, He said the only discount they can do is £300 as the profit is so small, Hence why the £2000 scrappage scheme is so popular.

In which case I would sod off and buy elsewhere, but I would make sure I would tell him so first.....

[Rocket88]

  trigger said:

I spoke to a Suzuki dealer yesterday and i asked him what discount he could do on a new Alto if i was to pay cash, He said the only discount they can do is £300 as the profit is so small, Hence why the £2000 scrappage scheme is so popular.

I thought that whole basis of scrappage was that H.M.G put up a grand, and so did the manufacturer?

[Rocket88]

  RedSparrow said:

  andrew e said:

Triumph Mayflower anyone?

 

http://www.aronline.co.uk/cgi-bin/forum ... &start=200

THIS IS A JOKE ISN'T IT??!!!

 

I fucking despair.

I've driven one, they are fucking ghastly, with no redeeming features wahtsoever. The only car that has no ride comfort, appalling handling, and epically bad road holding. Most cars manage a reasonable stab at two of the three above criteria, but to fail so fantastically on all three takes real talent. They're also galcier-slow, and break down...a lot.............and look fucking awful.........nice picnic tables though.

[Mr Lobster]

  colc said:

I thought that whole basis of scrappage was that H.M.G put up a grand, and so did the manufacturer?

Yep thats how it works. The manufacturer / importer stumps up a grand. The dealer doesn't contribute anything to it at all. Thats why they like the scheme so much - essentially they are selling cars at full retail, the discount is all provided by Government and manufacturer.The dealers have a very small margin on new cars - their profit comes mainly from additional sales - extended warranties, accesories, finance commision which relatively few scrappage deals have. The manufacturers on the other hand have quite a healthy profit margin on most cars except the very smallest, cheapest stuff in the range.

[AnthonyG]

  FredTransit said:

  trigger said:

I spoke to a Suzuki dealer yesterday and i asked him what discount he could do on a new Alto if i was to pay cash, He said the only discount they can do is £300 as the profit is so small, Hence why the £2000 scrappage scheme is so popular.

In which case I would sod off and buy elsewhere, but I would make sure I would tell him so first.....

You don't seem to understand that large discounts are not available on these small cars. You won't get more than £3-400 off a car that retails for £5k at the moment, partcularly as all the stock is spoken for in the scrappage scheme!Typically several thousand pounds off is only available on cars that are actually at the dealers taking up space, not at the order point.Have you ever bought a new car, or do you just believe what you read on forums?

[Mr Lobster]

You'll only ever get a dealer to knock a couple of grand of a new car if it's old stock that they are desperate to shift / using dealers finance so they get a good commision to compensate for the discount / are buying something in excess of £40k.It's never been the case that a cash buyer could negotiate a couple of grand off a £8k supermini in spite of what Twat Car etc say. Dealers just don't have the margin.T'other thing is that the old fable that walking into a dealer and waving cash at them will get you a big discount hasn't been true in the last 25 years - they want / need you to be taking finance for them to make any real money.

[FredTransit]

  AnthonyG said:

  FredTransit said:

  trigger said:

I spoke to a Suzuki dealer yesterday and i asked him what discount he could do on a new Alto if i was to pay cash, He said the only discount they can do is £300 as the profit is so small, Hence why the £2000 scrappage scheme is so popular.

In which case I would sod off and buy elsewhere, but I would make sure I would tell him so first.....

You don't seem to understand that large discounts are not available on these small cars. You won't get more than £3-400 off a car that retails for £5k at the moment, partcularly as all the stock is spoken for in the scrappage scheme!Typically several thousand pounds off is only available on cars that are actually at the dealers taking up space, not at the order point.Have you ever bought a new car, or do you just believe what you read on forums?

I did buy a brand new transit in 1986, got two grand off list at the time, because I asked, though it was on finance. Remember there was a recession then too. It was the van we wanted, but wouldn't do it again. Depreciation is an evil thing. Still have the van BTW.Think about it, if the dealers are happy to put in a grand off a car into the scrappage deal (that's what they are liable for, the other grand comes from the government) they would not be doing that repeatedly if they could not afford it. If they can't afford it (and participate in the scrappage scheme), they deserve to go bust anyway. If they can afford it, why can't they just knock it off the price when asked anyway?

[r.welfare]

After spending an hour in a sweaty showroom being royally dicked around by a condescending Nissan salesman on Saturday, I can only assume that the scrappage scheme plus attendant finance deals means some dealerships aren't interested in £9k in cash from someone wanting a year-old topspec Note auto (my folks). Must have hit their quarterly volume targets, too.When they offered £500 PX for their mint, 27k W-plate Honda Logo - which I know books at £2k in Glass's - we walked. An Oxfordshire independent with a stock of ex-Motability cars will get their money instead I suspect, and the £2k will gladly be given by our local mechanic who has a small forecourt and can't get enough small autos at the moment.By the way Fred, was it a Mk2? In 1986, the Mk3 would have just come out, which may be why you got your 2 grand off. But - specifically - small cars = small profits, for both manufacturer and dealer. Don't forget that dealer margins are a lot lower than they were in 1986, you're looking at 5% now against 17.5% then as the norm.

[Mr Lobster]

  FredTransit said:

Think about it, if the dealers are happy to put in a grand off a car into the scrappage deal (that's what they are liable for, the other grand comes from the government)

Thats the thing though. Dealers aren't putting anything in as they don't have enough margin. The manufacturer throws a grand in as well as the government, dealer doesn't have to contribute anything to the scrappage scheme.

[FredTransit]

Ah right, I see, but don't the dealers get a profit? If no why are they doing it? Charity work?

[Mr Lobster]

Yes the dealers do make a profit on the sale - something like a new, base model Fiesta will make them a few hundred quid on the sale. If they can sell extras* such as warranties, finance, mudflaps and all that tat then they make a bit more.

 

If they can sell enough cars to hit their manufacturers targets then they will get a fairly decent bonus payment from the manufacturer which is far far more than the profits on selling the actual cars. ( Because new cars weren't selling, they were not hitting targets hence getting nothing from manufacturers which is why so many dealers went bust and why the scrappage scheme came into being )

 

Thats why they do it.

 

* Not the sort of extras that certain types of lady offer you. I don't think they are quite that desperate to sell a new Kia Rio...

[r.welfare]

The dealers will get (EDIT: Lobsta beat me to it!):- a margin on the sale of the car (the amount subject to what you can haggle off);- a volume bonus (if they sell x of a particular car, or total units, in a period of time);- sometimes a registration bonus for each example of a model they sell in a particular period - usually applies to large and/or unloved models, e.g. Citroen C6;- commission on any finance they arrange;- commission on Supagard, GAP insurance and any other surplus tat they can flog you;- a markup on labour and parts whenever you take it in for service and repair.Offset against that is the overhead of the dealership, and the threat of franchise withdrawal if they don't pay through the nose for all the sales materials and branding, plus not selling enough cars.That's why the friendly local family-owned dealer has all but disappeared, due to manufacturer pressure for these out-of-town, high traffic sites. That, and the fact that the original in-town sites are often valuable real estate. A lot of dealership groups are really just property companies that happen to sell cars on the side...

[FredTransit]

  Mr Lobster said:

* Not the sort of extras that certain types of lady offer you. I don't think they are quite that desperate to sell a new Kia Rio...

You sure about this?

[Cavcraft]

Being honest I think 'would Sir like a handjob with that' would probably persaude me into some heap of crap I couldn't afford Seem to recall one VW dealer telling me they were made to buy 'x' amount of new VWs from VW themselves every month. Anything they didn't sell sort of accrued interest so they were pretty desperate to sell everything they got.It could be a load of bollocks I expect but you never know.