The Current Driveway...

[captain_70s]

What year is Auntie again? 

I'd have thought it'd have tubeless rims anyway, my '56 Cresta does.

[TrabbieRonnie]

1959...

[TrabbieRonnie]

9 minutes ago, captain_70s said:

What year is Auntie again? 

I'd have thought it'd have tubeless rims anyway, my '56 Cresta does.

What feature(s) make a wheel tubeless Captain?  Could we tell by looking?

[captain_70s]

6 minutes ago, TrabbieRonnie said:

What feature(s) make a wheel tubeless Captain?  Could we tell by looking?

Longstone Tyres site seems to suggest P4s are all tubed tyres. Although their prices are eye watering they know their stuff.

Seemingly the easiest to spot difference is the wheel having a hump for the bead to locate on for a tubeless tyre. Seen here on the left. (Think these are LR Defender wheels!)

To be fair 1956 was the first year for tubeless tyres for Vauxhall, and they make a big deal of it in the brochure! I'd not be surprised if more conservative manufacturers like Rover stuck with the proven technology for quite a while.

[TrabbieRonnie]

Landy forum provides the following info, looks like I'd be going with scenario 4, not ok!?

Or number 3 if I get new tubes.  Again, I can't really see the problem with a tubeless tyre on a tubed wheel (if it seals ok)?  It can't be more secure in a deflated state anyway, can it?  Is it just that a tubeless tyre bead is unlikely to seal well against a tubed wheel rim profile by design...?

Learning stuff that would've been so obvious at the time I guess!

[TrabbieRonnie]

1 minute ago, captain_70s said:

Longstone Tyres site seems to suggest P4s are all tubed tyres. Although their prices are eye watering they know their stuff.

Seemingly the easiest to spot difference is the wheel having a hump for the bead to locate on for a tubeless tyre. Seen here on the left. (Think these are LR Defender wheels!)

To be fair 1956 was the first year for tubeless tyres for Vauxhall, and they make a big deal of it in the brochure! I'd not be surprised if more conservative manufacturers like Rover stuck with the proven technology for quite a while.

The ones on the right there look exactly like the P4's wheels...

[jonathan_dyane]

According to the Rover manuals later P4s like yours can run tubeless tyres however they meant they didn't leak from the seams and were suitable for tubeless crossply tyres. With radials more cornering force is possible which could in certain extreme circumstances result in the bead moving causing instant deflation and a potential accident - this is why wheels designed for tubeless radial tyres have that extra hump.

That said there are many old cars running around with tubeless tyres and no tubes although it isn't really recommended, probably* less likely to cause an accident than running on (very expensive!) crossply tyres and tubes...

 

[TrabbieRonnie]

2 hours ago, jonathan_dyane said:

According to the Rover manuals later P4s like yours can run tubeless tyres however they meant they didn't leak from the seams and were suitable for tubeless crossply tyres. With radials more cornering force is possible which could in certain extreme circumstances result in the bead moving causing instant deflation and a potential accident - this is why wheels designed for tubeless radial tyres have that extra hump.

That said there are many old cars running around with tubeless tyres and no tubes although it isn't really recommended, probably* less likely to cause an accident than running on (very expensive!) crossply tyres and tubes...

 

Thanks JD, your reply is much appreciated.  It does seem as though two things are being conflated to me...

Tyres/wheels/roads improved, meaning less need for inner tubes in any case, and...

The development of radials meant better handling cars with higher cornering speeds, requiring a method of holding them onto the rim.

I'll go ahead and fit them tubeless I think, and maybe just not take her auto-testing after all!

[TrabbieRonnie]

Well well,

All this time awaiting my new tyres (they should be back tomorrow), has meant far too much time for the poking and prodding of Auntie's undercarriage.

I set out merely to scrub up and refresh the waxoyl in the wheel wells while they were free to access.  However, if you go looking for trouble, you usually find it...!

This is just ahead of the rear nearside wheel.  There's a lot going on in this spot, loads of layers coming together, but it's not as bad as it looks... (I think!).

The sill end is solid, which is good as it incorporates a body mount underneath.  This will all get cleaned up/fertanned/painted once I've cut away the rotten inner wing from in front of it. 

I'll make good the hole on the inside, which will both close the interior once more, and strengthen the floorpan to body there.  All that can then be protected before it's covered up again by the replacement inner wing panels (there's a lip/joint (basically the bit that's rotted, going vertically up) that I'd like to recreate, hence two pieces instead of one).

I presume the two flats above and below the sill end, were once attached to the inner wing, so I'll drill holes in my sheet to line up with them, and plug weld them on.

I've three days off after tonight's back shift, so should be able to progress this weather permitting.  I'll not be driving her until this is sorted, it's only just dried out for the first time in decades!  All this was covered up with what I can only describe as near-structural strength filler/mastic, which I'm happy to be rid of.

I've a fair tolerance for rust blebs these days, but I can't stand the cars being less than solid underneath!

Also got the void behind the rusty front wing bottom cleared out, was totally packed with wet shite...

The out-of-sight bit of this repair will be easier (just flat surfaces), and the wing bottom skin is available as a repair panel at least... £80 I think.

I've also got new flexi brake lines on the way, noticed the nearside front has perished.  The hard lines all look good though.

 

Errr... onwards?

 

 

 

 

[Surface Rust]

Doesn't look too bad (famous last words!), especially if you have got a welder and aren't afraid to use it.

The previous owner of mine has knocked up some plastic wheel arch liners from what looks like pond liner. I haven't dared remove them to see what lurks behind...

[Dyslexic Viking]

Liked for it going to be fixed and not the rust.

And hope it won't be too hard to fix.

[TrabbieRonnie]

1 hour ago, Surface Rust said:

Doesn't look too bad (famous last words!), especially if you have got a welder and aren't afraid to use it.

The previous owner of mine has knocked up some plastic wheel arch liners from what looks like pond liner. I haven't dared remove them to see what lurks behind...

I think it should have rubber mudflaps protecting the front wings, mine are long gone... The rear, well just old age I guess, at 65 she's allowed some rust.  I've done more on the RX8 at a third of the Rover's age!

But yeah, don't look! 🤣

[TrabbieRonnie]

Progress has happened, as the sun shone all day and I am off until my weekend back shift... bootiful.

Mrs Trab provided a lovely big breakfast, that set me up for the battle ahead... the grindette quickly turned this...

...into this...

Holey, but better already.  Next was the CAD stage, I recommend Honey Nut Cornflakes packaging, perfect for the job.

This first piece has a return edge facing into the interior, which added a good deal of strength...

I then realised that I'd be able to run a weld along the floorpan from inside the car, so instead of two short bits I could have one long...

Turned all this into metal, return edge shown more clearly here...

And from within...

At this point I realised I'd left my welding mask at work, so a quick blast in the other (much faster) rust bucket ensued, via the petrol station as is generally the way with an RX8!

Just before I put the torch to the car, I thought about joing the two pieces together first, saving a good run of weld being laid on the vehicle...  I sellotaped them together to see if it would work, and it seemed to fit well.  So, these...

...became this thing...

And tacking in commenced...

The little bumps in the paint on the inside showed me I was getting good penetration, and the wisps of smoke gave me a series of mild heart attacks!  I've no pictures, but I managed to get decent runs along all these internal joints too, so it should all be strong again.

A quick dust with the flapwheel and a splash of waxoyl to prevent it flash-rusting, and that's me for the day.  Drilled a wee hole to allow spray access for corrosion prevention, and found a new one where I hadn't cut back quite far enough...!

Nevermind, waxoyl!

My plan is to spray the floorpan and chassis with an oily mix after a scrub up, and brush Tetroseal into the wheel wells as it's harder wearing.  Tomorrow is servo day I think, maybe my flexies will arrive too 🤞

 

Further issues at the garage with my tyres, the old lady's wheels take a larger valve, which are now on order... Gives me plenty of time to dig more rust out the thing I suppose!

 

Cheers all.

[TrabbieRonnie]

Just idling on the P4 project now, very frustrating waiting on my wheels...

Got the servo plumbed in though, and after a few laps of the bleed nipples, I do have a firm brake pedal.  No leaks as yet, and (judging by hand with a bar), there is even braking on every wheel as far as I can tell.

My second litre of GL4 came in, so the diff got it's fluid change.  Nothing untoward in the thick old stuff that came out, probably better oil than it's replacement!

Other than that, I'm tinkering with bits and bobs, Autosol-ing anything that catches my eye, and even made up a stainless tailpipe trim.  

Servo in its home...

The oil bath air cleaner is still missing above, it's in the RX8's boot for a trip to the work's part washer tomorrow back shift.

Back seat in position, as I've finally decided to leave the car sat with the battery connected... been a bit paranoid about it catching fire?!

Got to take a moment to appreciate the coolest sun visors I've ever owned...

But yeah, if my wheels don't come soon, I might have to do some useful maintenance tasks on the other cars...!

 

[Matty]

4 hours ago, TrabbieRonnie said:

seat in position, as I've finally decided to leave the car sat with the battery connected... been a bit paranoid about it catching fire?!

Always been my paranoia too. I fitted one of those spin wheel battery disconnections on the negative terminal in the end. Mega easy and every time the car goes in the garage after use I take it out. I'm probably being a mardy arse but for the sake of a few quid and 20 mins wiring it in it's no sparks no fire.

[TrabbieRonnie]

Good idea, the battery's under the back seat, would have to find a convenient spot under the bonnet 🤔.

[TrabbieRonnie]

Or does it have to be at the battery to make any difference...? 

I'm rubbish at electricalz.

[Matty]

Nah your breaking a circuit so anywhere would do. The one I fit is specifically a neg terminal for the battery with a spin wheel to break the link but any in line switch with a removable link would do. Ebay will be rotten with them no doubt.

[TrabbieRonnie]

Hello all,

Spent my day off out on the drive (for a change), washed the RX8 and A8 and then set about further P4 tinkering.

The front bumper centre section has bugged me for a while, it had been pulled forward at some point, bent the bumper out the way and put the plate at a jaunty angle.

Sorted that today, uncovered all the bodges under there so it now sits better against the rest of the bumper...

Also got rid of all the shite wiring and cable ties to the front auxiliary lamps.  They're not connected at the driver's end anyway, and I'd rather start from scratch when I do wire them in.

The hippy-fication of the interior continues, as well as polishing the seemingly endless bits of chrome trim...

Think John Lennon's Rolls Royce... 🤣

Had the organiser of a fairly local car show knock on the door at the weekend, he was just passing and was desperate to know all about the Rover.  He was insistent that I take her to the Highland Folk Museum show, but it's on the 25th of this month...  I think I'll still be doing shake-down runs to and from work at most at that point, but maybe with a support vehicle!?

Back shift for the rest of the week, so I should be able to get my wheels back and fitted over a couple of mornings... Roll on the weekend!

[mercedade]

Those seat covers are magic

[TrabbieRonnie]

Well, wheels and tyres... good.

Brakes... less so!

I'm not any further on with the brakes, I think there must still be air in there.  I couldn't do anything today as I was out of Dot4.  The level has dropped in the reservoir but no leaks I can see.  Fortunately she's running fine, so I'm pretty sure the servo isn't leaking into the vacuum side as before.  Just picked up some more fluid, so will continue investigations tomorrow.

The swanky new tyres have transformed the ride and steering though, much steadier and firm feeling... 

Busied myself with more woody goodness, applying some 'Furniture Salve' stuff, which has added shine to the colour...

Also picked up some black gloss, for a rattle can refurb, not that the wheels were too bad tbh...  Couldn't resist banging the hubcaps back on, I'd polished them up in front of the fire over the winter!

Giving me Routemaster vibes!

Lastly, I've paint-strippered the bumpers, so I'm back to fairly rough and ready (but honest) chrome.  The front number plate surround has been fillered, so will have to do something permanent to protect that.  Check out my hand-made sports 'zorst...

Will see how the bumpers polish up, maybe they'll end up painted again yet!  Light lens was off for internal painting, some orange glass paint has improved the... orange.

Brakes tomorrow... hopefully.

[TrabbieRonnie]

Literally non-stop action here...

The feckin' servo is leaking from the main v-band seal... Thought I'd saved a bit of cash there rebuilding it with just the piston seals replaced, but oh no.  New one ordered (Lockheed, I don't think you can't buy new Girling units unfortunately...), I'm done messing around.  Brakes, they're not just nice-to-haves are they?!

Hopefully that will arrive this week as I have a four day weekend coming in which to fit/fettle and test drive the old girl.  I'll get everything stripped out again for access by then.

To track down the above leak, I'd decided to tilty-ramp the car for maximum room.  

She's the closest I've yet managed to perfectly balanced, I can lift her by the towbar onto the front wheels.  There's a locking pin to stop that happening unintentionally, but very handy being able to get under both ends so easy.

Anyway, in order to cheer myself up, and do something productive, I set about the checking the toe-in adjustment.  Steering is a lot steadier with the new rubber, but still.  

Turns out the fronts were parallel, or zero toe in.  I'd already got them straight with the steering wheel straight, but it was nice to confirm that was right again.  By the manual, toe in should be 3mm plus or minus 1.5mm.  I soaked the end clamps of the adjustable tie bar in wd's finest and set about it...

Because it's a quality old motor, they just undid, and the bar even spun round like it had just been used yesterday!  A quick wind out and I had my 3mm at the wheels, which I'm hoping will still be in tolerance with weight on and at speed etc.

Here's a couple of pics of the tank-like underpinnings if you're interested, will have an update next weekend hopefully!

 

 

[TrabbieRonnie]

Hi all.

Day one of the four day weekend dawned bright and dry... much progress has therefore been achieved on the pinky P4.

Firstly, x3 new flexi's.

Just the one at the rear, between the body and the axle...

The old ones weren't bad to be honest, but I wondered about the new servo giving them a big kick up the backside!  Speaking of which...

It's a Lockheed number, and sits entirely the opposite way round in the car.  A bespoke (and nicely finished) bracket was included to suit, as well as two new assembled brake pipes, all fittings and photographic instructions.  Big well done to John Wearing spares, nicely developed product.

That lot and the bleeding has taken all day, some of the flexis put up a good fight, and I always end up scrubbing bits while I'm underneath.  I think I'm fully bled, I can't get any more air out, but the pedal feels a bit floppy at the very start of its travel.  Maybe tadts, but I'll have one more lap of the nipples in the morn, before dropping her down and test driving.

The wee ramp makes everything so much easier, I had her see-sawing both ways before levelling off as above for bleeding.  I've got the axle stand at the back just for my peace of mind really, there's a pin goes in to stop uncontrolled moves, so she's not actually putting any weight on it anyway.

Dare I hope for a proper road run this weekend?!  I do! 🤞🤞🤞

[Matty]

12 hours ago, TrabbieRonnie said:

Dare I hope for a proper road run this weekend?!  I do! 🤞🤞🤞

Fingers crossed you get a bit of weather for it. It's just gone to shit round here 😒 

[TrabbieRonnie]

22 minutes ago, Matty said:

Fingers crossed you get a bit of weather for it. It's just gone to shit round here 😒 

Yeah, rained all night here but drying up now.

[TrabbieRonnie]

Just had a lovely drive up and down my private test track, beautiful!  Much nicer to drive with functioning brakes 😂.

The old girl is also tracking straight and true, with much more direct steering than she had on arrival, a combination of everything done undercarriage-wise I suppose.  

The driving experience is actually very relaxed, especially when up into top gear, loads of torque.  

Remaining plans (for now anyway!), are to wash/shine her up again, and drain and refill the coolant with the correct Bluecol stuff.  There aren't any brake lights, so I'll be investigating the switch under the servo (I've maybe knocked it fitting said awkward bugger).  Lastly, the black 4-way stretch carpet has arrived... I'll use the originals as templates and fit that at some point.  T'was only £45 for the roll, I'll sit down tonight and work out the total spend methinks, under a grand so far I reckon...

Insurance will be arranged on Monday, and then the longships' sea trials can commence in earnest!

 

Chuffed doesn't really cover it! 👍👍👍

Edited May 24 by TrabbieRonnie
Pic of freshly washed, oiled and rained on P4!

[TrabbieRonnie]

Well, what a lovely day running around in the Highlands...  Mainly sunny here with the odd shower, which has shown up the need for new wiper blades on the old Rover!

However, as that was the only issue in 33 hilly miles I'm a happy chap.  She pulls well, once in top there's no real need to change down again really, very relaxed.

Need to properly investigate the brake lights, they did reappear temporarily with a wiggle of the wires, but I am informed this was short-lived.  

Can thoroughly recommend the Radar Dymax tyres, smooth and steady... My FIL commented on how smooth and comfy the car was compared to last time (on the old crossplies).  

Home again, and no evidence of incontinence either.

Anyway, who was it said that this old motor would get under my skin?  Totally right!

[TrabbieRonnie]

Auntie's (approximate) costs then...

 

Tyres, £400 fitted.

Servo, £320 delivered.

Regulator, £35 delivered.

Brakes flexi's, £25 ish, delivered.

Brake fluid, engine, gearbox and diff oils, £100.

Oil filter, spark plugs and leads, £50 delivered.

Coolant, £22 delivered.

Full engine gasket/seal kit (unused so far), £80.

Roll of vehicle carpet, £45 delivered.

 

There may be other bits and bobs, and obviously a lot of time spent(!), but I think the above is a fair representation of the costs so far.  Much, much more would be required to get anywhere near show standard of course, but she's running well and stopping nicely.  I make that a total of...

£1077

A fair bit of money then.  It's been spread over seven months, and has been mostly a very enjoyable way to spend it at least.

The purchase cost is hard to arrive at... I swapped for it, and wasn't really sure what my old (mot-less) beavertail was worth, but £1200 - £1500 ish would have been feasible I think. 

The Rover's worth is similarly hard to judge, it is a weird one, with it's non-original paint and registration... not for the purists!  It's probably between £1500 - £1700(?), now it's running well, not that it matters to me much now she is my fleet favourite!

After today's successful run out, I'm taking her to work tomorrow to show the lads... if all goes well, at least I can say she's a practical classic!

[High Jetter]

It is, you've shown that.

[captain_70s]

1 hour ago, TrabbieRonnie said:

I make that a total of...

£1077

A fair bit of money then.  It's been spread over seven months, and has been mostly a very enjoyable way to spend it at least.

Not bad at all, especially considering a full set of tyres these days is never cheap.

Those Dimax tyres are on my radar (pun intended) for the Cresta, so good to hear they're decent!

Seems the only big ticket item needed was the brake servo. Still only the cost of servicing an Astra at a garage!