Citroen Xantia Double Madness! - Mojo Lost!

[The Moog]

Have a look in the electric pritstick thread for tips. Good luck!

[Broadsword]

Toto Wolf mig welder has arrived. I’ve got Friday pencilled in to make a start on the work. Annoyingly the weather this weekend looks less settled than recently. Damn.

[Zelandeth]

Sorry what the?

 

How on earth have you managed to find a Dante Red Citroen without peeling clearcoat?!?

 

Shame about the rust, but at least once it's done you shouldn't have to worry about rust on the car for a long while.

[Broadsword]

I’m under the impression that it’s Lucifer Red, but correct me if I am wrong. I’m already calling it Lucifer anyway. Yes, it really is remarkably preseantable for an old workhorse. The interior is nice too. The white Xantia I have beats it in terms of the sheer amount of fastidious work that has been done on it with an utterly complete service history, but the bodywork is somewhat more agricultural. I think it will probably keep going forever though.

 

I must book the white car in for an early test this week and get it on sale. I can’t keep both and I am opting to keep the red one although it is a tough call. I’ve had a full year’s trouble free motoring with the white car which is pretty amazing. With the red one though I will save on tax, gain a towbar, might save on fuel and get a cleaner looking exterior, except for the rusty bits. Performance pretty much identical but different in power delivery. If the red car lasts a full year I would consider getting the clutch done. The only question I have is the front struts. There is surface corrosion underneath which has separated the black rubber on the underside a bit. I have been poking and scraping the area as hard as I can and it is solid. Citroen forum opinions seem slightly split, but the general consensus seems that under those circumstances it is ok as longs as you treat the rust and no holes can be poked though that baseplate. On the white car the front strut tops are absolutely perfect, again a testament to my naming it the Xantia of excellence.

[Broadsword]

The white car, i.e. Xantia of Excellence, failed MOT only on a track rod end and and light bulbs, so that is as good as a pass. Already reserved a track rod end and bulbs I have, so it will be ready in no time. A for sale thread will be up soon. Don't all rush at once!

[Broadsword]

Lucifer the red Xantia is proving somewhat problematic at the moment. I got the welder all setup and practiced a bit, and picked up a stack of parts for both cars yesterday. With the weather turning against me (I have to work on a driveway) I had to tackle the front brakes on the red car today.. in the rain unfortunately. I was extra worried about three things: the little Torx screws holding the disc on, then the T55 bolts holding the carrier on (absolute madness using those bits!) and the piston on the caliper being stuck. I tucked in to the driver's side and was pretty relieved when I was able to undo all the bolts. Even better was that I could screw the caliper piston in with my hand.

 

As usual when I got the brakes apart, they were pretty neglected looking. Looks like the pads have been changed recently but they have been slung in with no care at all. No copper slip on the bits where they meet the carrier and the build up rust had not been removed, so they were very stuck. The disc was badly rusted and had worn unevenly. The sliding pins were bone dry on top of that. I always take my time cleaning up the brakes when doing discs and pads, and by the time I have finished I was happy everything was working ok. Looked like this wasn't going to be such a bad job after all, which is just as well as I was getting soaked.

 

Repeating the procedure on the passenger side all was going well up till the top carrier bolt, one of those wretched T55s. It promptly broke two of my T55 bits. The third I have is only good for a 3/8th. Using an adapter to 1/2 inch drive it just broke the adapter. Really depressing since that one bolt is all that is stopping me from doing the job. It always ends that way though, doesn't it. It seems that the bolt head itself hasn't been damaged, so I've ordered the only impact T55 bit I could get on Amazon Prime next day delivery and soak the offending bolt in Plusgas.

 

Double annoying is that I can't get the accumulator sphere to shift. It is well on there, and yes I did depressurize the system before attempting to undo it. No dice. Hoping to find someone with the proper sphere removal tool down the local industrial estate because I can't get the sphere tool by rapid delivery.

 

I'm up against the clock somewhat as I need to retest both Xantias on Friday. Tomorrow I will focus on welding. I've had to cut away a great deal on the N/S, it was quite rotten. O/S looks better thankfully.

[Broadsword]

Progress has been slow on the red Xantia mainly due to bad weather and other work. Brakes and accumulator sphere were sorted easy enough. I bought the proper sphere removal tool for the accumulator sphere, which made it a 5 min job. Lovely. A proper T55 impact 1/2 drive piece made short work of the stuck brake caliper carrier bolt, and the brakes overhaul was promptly finished.

 

The welding is much more challenging due to my inexperience and doing it in poor weather is impossible so I've had to miss the retest. I'll do it at a less stressed pace going forward. I've got over a month's MOT remaining.

 

The clutch is still as it was. If you are smooth enough pulling away there is very little judder. No slipping at all though, so that will do.

 

I had a quick look at the coolant today. I'm not sure it was like that a couple of weeks ago, but it has the exactly appearance of tea. It doesn't overheat, doesn't consume oil or coolant and the oil is not contaminated. Maybe it is just silt/rust. No oily film or smell either, just looks pretty strange.

 

Actually driving the car is nice. The bonus of having the 110 unit is you can pull very easily from low revs in high gear. It just makes things more relaxed.

 

Another note. The 110 HDi runs 205/60/15 tyres. The 90 is 185/65/15.

[richardmorris]

Has it had forte or radweld in it to “fix” the heater matrix?

[Broadsword]

Not to my knowledge, but it would be hard to tell the difference. I think Radweld would look at bit redder from memory. No doubt all will become clear when the coolant is flushed. Also the interior carpets are nice and clean, no evidence of coolant ever being in the cab. I take it the heater matrix is a real pain to change?

[richardmorris]

Not to my knowledge, but it would be hard to tell the difference. I think Radweld would look at bit redder from memory. No doubt all will become clear when the coolant is flushed. Also the interior carpets are nice and clean, no evidence of coolant ever being in the cab. I take it the heater matrix is a real pain to change?

A real pain and a half. The usual giveaway is a curry-like smell from the heater.

[Broadsword]

Ah well at least there is no smell like that in the cabin, it's relatively tidy and fresh smelling in there.

[richardmorris]

All to the good. Though from memory my dad’s 1.8 petrol did 90,000 miles after the matrix started leaking.

[UltraWomble]

 I take it the heater matrix is a real pain to change?

 

 

A real pain and a half. 

 

Citroen start building each car with a heater matrix suspended magically in the air on the production line. Frenchmen then assemble parts around this matrix lovingly held in place with millions of over tightened steel T22 bolts. The net result is that when the matrix eventually lets go repair involves disassembling the WHOLE ENTIRE CAR until the matrix is left suspended once again in mid air.

[Broadsword]

I’m really hoping a change of coolant doesn’t expose a leaking heater matrix... It’ll be fine. Optimisim will see everything through! No point leaving the coolant like that though, it’s bound to cause problems.

[PhilA]

Yeah, the heater was similar to do on my Renault. It appears to be a French design staple- use the heater as the datum for building the rest of the car around it.

 

Phil

[Zelandeth]

Really annoying thing is that the matrix itself is usually absolutely fine - It's the O-rings in the connector attaching the coolant lines to it that fail.

 

It's a dash (fully) out job to change.

[Broadsword]

Ok, this hasn't worked out unfortunately. I've had to make an executive decision on the red Xantia. It isn't viable. I've been attending to the rust and it is just snowballing. The O/S rear sill I managed to do. The N/S cill can be fixed with enough determination, but the wheelarch is disintegrating and there just isn't anything to weld to. Rot goes all the way up the inner arch, and now we are into very difficult to shape repair patches. Also when I really started poking around the inner cavity leading to the C-pillar it is rotten. In short the rot has gone just that bit too far. Even if all the welding were done, then it needs the seals on the hydraulic pump replacing and the alternator rebuilding, and a damn good service and at that point you still have to live with clutch judder. Then there is that murky coolant.. And if I take it back for an MOT it needs a full retest and they might find other issues. Determining all this at the time of purchase was not possible, these are all the things that come out after you have been working on it. Just one of those things, my bad. Did get good practice at welding though.

 

So I've decided the red Xantia needs to be scrapped. I'm not willing to pass the list of issue above down. Sad times.

 

On the upside the Lupo is strong and stable and will be the bedrock of the fleet.

 

The Excellent Xantia is still for sale by the way. Sale of that will make up a bit for making a loss on the red car.

[lesapandre]

Seems a pity as it still has a bit of ticket. Dangerous to drive? 

[Broadsword]

Not dangerous to drive but beyond economical repair I would say. The list of things to put right is just too long and costly.

[LightBulbFun]

who was it that wanted a one way car to drive somewhere and dump? this sounds like it might be suitable for them

 

shame to see a Xantia go to the scrap yard, iv been a passenger in Zels Activa a few times and its very nice

[Broadsword]

Yes it is a shame. On top and inside it's quite tidy and as Zel noted, it's a red Xantia with no laquer peel. It also falls in a favorable tax bracket and has a towbar, which is why I bought it.

 

Having a go in a Activa is bucket list stuff for me. Must be très excellent!

[binhoker668]

Very sorry to hear that fella - I had no idea what lurked beneath....

[Broadsword]

It's ok, not to worry. I've had a long run of very good and very cheap cars. That streak was bound to go a little wrong at some point. Can't win them all! It's just one of those things as I said and there was really no way to know unless you have a really good poke around. Now is definitely the time to call it a day on the whole thing though.

[shoddybanger]

Bummer, but your point of view is spot on! Sometimes you just have to fold 'em and go for the next round.

 

There's a colloquial saying in Finnish that roughly translates 'you can't turn shite into confectionery' and there's some wisdom in that I guess.

 

I've been hankering for an old C5, but I'm still a bit on the fence about whether I really want to deal with failing hydraulics on top of all the usual old car things.

[myglaren]

Bummer, but your point of view is spot on! Sometimes you just have to fold 'em and go for the next round.

 

There's a colloquial saying in Finnish that roughly translates 'you can't turn shite into confectionery' and there's some wisdom in that I guess.

 

I've been hankering for an old C5, but I'm still a bit on the fence about whether I really want to deal with failing hydraulics on top of all the usual old car things.

Only had one hydraulics fail over two C5s - 12 years.  current one is on >231,000 miles and a front-to-rear pipe wore through rubbing against a retaining clip.

 

The only other one was not quite the same on my GS - had to replace a brake disc which was paper thin and the curly round the stub axle pipe fell to bits, severely corroded.

Each pipe replaced resulted in it's neighbour collapsing until every pipe in the car was a new one.

 

No bother at all with the Xantia or BX.

[shoddybanger]

Only had one hydraulics fail over two C5s - 12 years.  current one is on >231,000 miles and a front-to-rear pipe wore through rubbing against a retaining clip.

 

The only other one was not quite the same on my GS - had to replace a brake disc which was paper thin and the curly round the stub axle pipe fell to bits, severely corroded.

Each pipe replaced resulted in it's neighbour collapsing until every pipe in the car was a new one.

 

No bother at all with the Xantia or BX.

 

Thanks, that's reassuring to hear. I really want to have the hydropneumatic experience at some point.

[myglaren]

Thanks, that's reassuring to hear. I really want to have the hydropneumatic experience at some point.

Only reason I buy Citroens*

 

As far as the suspension is concerned, the GS was magnificent, the Xantia less so and the C5 another downgrade but it is still better than most others.

I have been shuttling around a bit in my youngest's new-to-her 06 Megane and it doesn't compare favourably with the C5.

Although I loved her Rover 75 Connoisseur and her two SAAB 900s it was always nice to swap back to the C5.

 

I have driven Zel's Activa when it was im's and it is a superb and quite astonishing experience, lovely car that one.

Never been in a working CX, sadly, but was a passenger in a lovely XM the day I picked the current C5 up and that was a very pleasant experience,

Also a rather special C6 the same day that was incredible - like a water bed.  Unusual as the recommended suspension software upgrade hadn't happened, fortunately as it degrades the floatiness.

 

*other than the special anti-theft attachment:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Broadsword]

I flipped a C5 HDi 90 last year. Hardy feeling car. They are really inexpensive, I paid £350 and it was fine. Looked quite resistant to rot and the hatch is fantastically large. Seriously the hatchback is as capacious as your average estate. The main downside in with the C5 is that it’s quite bulbous and heavy. Still very comfy though. Now is the time to get one of those if you are considering it. They are fantastically cheap. Don’t buy the HDi 90, get the 110 which is faster, more frugal and costs less to tax.

 

Myglaren. I’m intrigued to know what is the difference in feel between the regular Xantia and Activa? Is the ride compromised at all?

[myglaren]

 

Myglaren. I’m intrigued to know what is the difference in feel between the regular Xantia and Activa? Is the ride compromised at all?

Not at all, It was a far better ride than my C5 and although the Xantia had been gone a while I would subjectively say that the Activa  was better - my Xantia was a poverty spec 1.9 Turbo D LX. 

Had all new spheres when I bought it and it was the victim of a collision while parked that killed it after a couple of years.

 

C5s are remarkably resilient.  Despite their perceived reputation mine have been surprisingly trouble free.

Current one is a shed, has been crashed before I bought it and the panels line up soviet-era style, I reversed it into a tree and the paint is cracked off the tailgate - no rust in the three years since.  The first one had paint chipped off the nearside front wing and in four years never rusted - unlike many of it's contemporaries of other makes including my brother's BMW.

 

What does amaze me is it's ability to fly around bends, roundabouts and corners.  My kids hate it as it is too 'wallowy' for them - I think they enjoy having their teeth rattled together

 

As said recently, compared to my youngest's Megane that seems very skittish and harsh in comparison - I really don't like the Megane's power steering.

 

I haven't been in many other cars and of them few that I like.

The only two that come close are a Princess I had for a while and more recently an Hyundai (don't laugh).

 

That one was a Geneses, 3.8L V6 and more bells and whistles that I could imagine. Adaptive suspension that was almost as good as hydraulics.

 

 

At a Citroen rally no less

[Broadsword]

Currently halfway through taking the shiny front brakes back off. If anyone wants slightly used Xantia 110 HDi front brake discs and pads cheap let me know. I’m snatching the very good genuine rubber mats too, parcel shelf, radio, jack and hub caps. Then it is off to UPullit this afternoon as looking at is is too painful now. Anyone interested in those bits let me know.