project Invacar MK12 - New owner Mrs 6Cyl

[LightBulbFun]

Stuart has kindly provided some more Mk12 chassis numbers for us

 

KWC896J is 91943

 

and

 

XGX223 (I think stuart means 224) is 81618

 

there are 37 known surviving Mk12s

[egg]

Thanks - I've updated the list above. Does the 37 include mine?

[LightBulbFun]

not 100% sure tbh, so iv asked

[Christine]

Did these ever have a steering wheel ?

[LightBulbFun]

Did these ever have a steering wheel ?

 

Nope, pretty much every invalid carriage/tricycle before the Model 70 was designed to be driven via tiller steering regardless of if you had use of both hands/arms or not (I bet it must of been fun* for the people with fully functioning upper bodies)

 

The Model 70 was the first (AFAIK) to offer other control schemes for people that did have use of both hands etc

[Christine]

So the 70 did have that option ?

[LightBulbFun]

So the 70 did have that option ?

 

Aye  (you could get every option with or without hand or foot controls, and iv even heard 1 story of a model 70 being adapted to be steered by a persons 1 good foot...)

 

 

 

 

[egg]

3 hours today to get three tyres fitted!

 

I had to remove them one by one for stability reasons, pop them in the Mazda, run them a mile up the road to the tyre place (3 trips) - they then sanded a lot of rust off each wheel and fitted the new inner tubes they ordered for me and the new (old) tyres.  Very satisfying though to see the car back on 3 tyres full of air (for now, if they hold). The chaps at the tyre place were amused as much as anything, and Invacars were discussed a bit.

 

The wheels are in a poor old state though.

 

Through this process I have ascertained that the front wheel/hub does turn fairly freely, the non-powered wheel turns (less freely) - so it's just the driven wheel that needs to be free'd off.

 

 

Tiny step forward really, but a satisfying one.

 

 

[320touring]

Good progress - now it is standing on its own 3 wheels and you have the A pillar, it's certainly starting to look a lot more like a complete vehicle.

 

Does the body come off the chassis? Was wondering if you could get the chassis out the garage, welded up and true in all plains, then reattach body - maybe make getting the a pillar in the right place easier?

[egg]

That's a good question, that's worth some serious thought.

 

From pictures I've found, different approaches have been taken. This guy looked like he just stripped the floor out - but perhaps he had less rust on the cross members to deal with than me.

 

 

Where as this one did have full body removal - it probably only is a few rusty screws to do this! I mean, the glass is already out in mine. And Wobbler has shown us this body-off approach is effective with 2CVs which is a complex car in comparison! The question is - is there enough space in the lock-up to store the two halves.

 

[320touring]

Imagine it's a 2 man lift to get the shell off, so it can just sit back on top when not working on it?

[PhilA]

Thanks. I've asked the former(?) owner of this one, if they know the chassis number.

 

40270045_2350862278262340_7505835394236153856_n.jpg

 

I've also asked about the one in the disability museum in the States, that would be good to know too.

If not, I have friends in Buffalo who would probably be willing to go have a nosey at the vehicle...

 

 

Phil

[Saabnut]

I am sure if you removed the bodyshell, put some padding on the floor, you could stand the tub on its rear (with a bit of rope around it to stop it falling) whilst you work on the chassis. I am sure the lockup will be big enough for that.

[egg]

Yes, that sounds like a plan. The reality is, body off is the most sensible way forward - it will be so easy to work on then for me or anyone else I get to assist on the bits where my skills* run out.

 

Making a mental list of what would need to happen to do this (apart from bolts that hold the body/chassis together):

- remove seat back

- remove ignition 'box of tricks' on rear parcel shelf

- thread throttle cable/choke etc out of body shell (which will mean disconnecting that blasted carb top!)

- remove 4 light fittings front and rear

- disconnect speedo and associated wiring

- disconnect wiper bits

 

There's probably a couple more weeks faffing around on other stuff I can do, and then I better make the call.

[Angrydicky]

Is the chassis solid?

I'd be inclined to carefully remove the remains of the floor and use them as a pattern to make a new one out of sheet steel at home. Or at least make a cardboard template to then transfer onto sheet.

[Mike D]

I'd repair the bodywork first before removing the body - the a pillar and that rear part will have lost a lot of strength, you dont want it twisting too much and wrecking itself

[Andyrew]

Does the body split into numerous bit?

 

Looks like Front clip, rear clip, roof top,

 

I'd be tempted to get things pinned in the right place and repair them in stages.

 

If you've not done fibreglass before then start with the roof that looks the least damaged then the front finishing with the rear.

[egg]

Is the chassis solid?

I'd be inclined to carefully remove the remains of the floor and use them as a pattern to make a new one out of sheet steel at home. Or at least make a cardboard template to then transfer onto sheet.

 

The main front to rear beam is rusty but solid. The cross members much less so. What thickness steel would I need?

 

I'd repair the bodywork first before removing the body - the a pillar and that rear part will have lost a lot of strength, you dont want it twisting too much and wrecking itself

 

This is a good point. Thanks.

 

Does the body split into numerous bit?

 

Looks like Front clip, rear clip, roof top,

 

I'd be tempted to get things pinned in the right place and repair them in stages.

 

If you've not done fibreglass before then start with the roof that looks the least damaged then the front finishing with the rear.

 

It looks like one piece from other pics online...(including the fuel tank probably)

 

[Mike D]

If that's how it comes off then 100% sort the body before removing it

[Angrydicky]

I would imagine for the floor something like 1.2mm would be about right, but as Mike says good idea to repair (and then brace) the body before removing it.

[barrett]

No way that's one big moulding, it looks like at least three, possibly four pieces joined together (not including flaps, of course), and I'd be surprised if the pieces were bonded together, rather than bolted. Have a look and see if there are obvious joints holding the front of the roof to the 'screen surround - if it can come apart in bits it'll be much easier to store and work on, too - and even if you have to slice it into chunks you can always 'glass them back together afterwards!

[LightBulbFun]

No way that's one big moulding, it looks like at least three, possibly four pieces joined together (not including flaps, of course), and I'd be surprised if the pieces were bonded together, rather than bolted. Have a look and see if there are obvious joints holding the front of the roof to the 'screen surround - if it can come apart in bits it'll be much easier to store and work on, too - and even if you have to slice it into chunks you can always 'glass them back together afterwards!

 

 

Yeah much like the Model 70 I imagine at least the front end roof and rear end are 3 completely independent bits that are just bolted/riveted to the chassis

 

(almost looks like the rear window section is also its own bit on the Mk12)

[LightBulbFun]

Just noticed stuart has provided me with some info on the whole body thing (and this applies to Model 70s too)

 

he says you must take the body off in sections, it was never designed to come off in 1 big lump and cant support its self without the chassis

 

and that if you do take it off in one big lump it will just fold up on itself and because theres no support in the section to section joints you will just end up ripping those out

 

(oh and your Mk12 is number 37 known )

[egg]

Thanks all. 

 

It would be useful to have a workshop manual!

[Zelandeth]

If it's anything like the Model 70, there will be a truly unreasonable number of (non captive you can bet!) nuts and bolts holding everything together. The ones above the windscreen and below the rear window in TP are spaced like you would expect if they were holding an airlock in place in a spacecraft, there are way more than I'm sure are really needed...

 

I'm guessing the fact that the car is almost totally lacking captive nuts anywhere will be something you will find causes you as much swearing as it has for both me an DW. To be honest, it's the one annoying aspect of working on them.

[egg]

More Invacar content, if it's allowed. I did an FOI on MK12 information response received is not unexpected.

 

I've now submitted a revised request to the Department of Health.

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/request_for_details_regarding_mk

 

DWP Response: 

 

Following a search of our paper and electronic records, I have established that the information 

you requested is not held by this Department.  

 

If you have any queries about this letter please contact me quoting the reference number 

above.   

[LightBulbFun]

Yeah from what I understand pretty much all the invacar stuff from the government was destroyed, so they would not have anything sadly (or well should not officially LOL)

 

and by destroyed I mean currently sitting in stuarts living room or thereabouts   (but sadly as mentioned Mk12 stuff is rather scarce)

 

although if you currently have you foot in the DWP, can you go in there and fire the people responsible for my ESA report? Ta thanks

[LightBulbFun]

heres a VIN that was hiding under our nose the entire time, but it looks like its XGX224

 

[egg]

I bought a 1969 motorcycle magazine that promised guidance on rebuilding a Villiers 9E, mine is the similar 11E, umm....not sure it's going to help much

 

 

 

[PhilA]

I would disagree on the volume of fixings used- neither have had the fibreglass fail or crack around those locations. All too often I see starred or crazed gelcoat around bolts where there weren't enough used to adequately spread the load.

 

Also, if you figure the design life, most were unlikely undone in service.

 

Phil