JT’s fleet: Range Rover’s burst it’s bag

[J-T]

Shit man, one’s enough!!

I actually quite fancy another GF8 Impreza but from a quick perusal it would appear they are all gone and those that aren’t are ruined.

[J-T]

Holy thread revival!

If you often visit the For Sale section, you may have seen I'm flogging my beemer. I did write about it a bit in this thread but no one really seemed arsed so I gave it its own in the moderns section. This is a questionable decision, as it really is brilliant car, so much so I've kept it for 2 and half years which is eons for me, mainly because I could not think of anything that would be better. So naturally, I've bought something that, on most levels, is worse. But it has personality, which is the one thing bimmer lacks. 

@Crispian_J_Hotson's most recent purchase clearly had an effect on me, because I've gone and ripped him right off.

Some fancy pants images there from its advert. I bought via a Car & Classic auction which proved very painless, would recommend, picked it up today. Initial impressions are...well if I'm honest at first I was a bit underwhelmed. It's a 400bhp supercharged V8 and at first the bimmer felt quicker. However, it's mega deceptive. Because it's quite a big, heavy lump and set up for refinement, you just don't realise how much speed it's picked up until you look down and 'OH SHIT'. It's a very progressive power delivery as well - I was expecting more of a thump, but that's not really its style at all. Once I'd figured it out a bit, we were wafting along in harmony.

I stuck a full tank in it and was expecting it to chew through much of that on the 100 mile drive home, but it used exactly a quarter of a tank and returned 28.5mpg according to the trip computer! That was with the cruise set at 70 (where it's doing 1500rpm) and the odd bit of naughtiness. It was mostly motorway though, so I'm sure once I get on my hideous stop/start East Lancs road commute that will half. So far I'm really liking it, but it's MOT is due next month so we'll see how long that lasts! Sills have already been done apparently.

[Crispian_J_Hotson]

Well gawd dang it son! What was it like to buy one and actually do some driving in it?

Did you get the phone pack with it?

Would you be needing those front wings there?

Hope that it's of minimal financial ruin for you. 

Welcome to the world of S Type ownership... Now that's two people that like it in the R's... Any more?

[J-T]

I’ll let you know… so far I’ve only driven it home 😄

It does indeed have an ancient Nokia hiding in the glovebox. I need to look into if anything can be done to update it to Bluetooth. I doubt it like

[J-T]

I’m up in the Scottish highlands in this thing. It’s proven really lovely for this sort of trip. I’ve been a bit underwhelmed up to now but it’s really come into its own on the roads up here, whilst swallowing loads of luggage and general life paraphernalia. I’ll post a photo of the rear tyres once I’m back. They were barely legal when I left but I thought they’d be ok to leave until we’re back - I was wrong! 

It’s not been plain sailing though. On the way up, coming out of Pitlochry I booted it up a slip road and got an MIL. I now have this mantra permanently displayed

It’s not happy and won’t rev past about 2500rpm, though thankfully can be driven normally below that. At that point it feels as though it’s hitting the rev limiter but I don’t know if that’s an artificial limiter it has imposed on itself or if it’s a coil breaking down or something. How heartening with a 350 mile drive home tomorrow. I rang a jag specialist local to me to book it in next week but he can’t fit it in until 15th March. I’m hoping that’s a good sign. I’ve a feeling this is about to wallet rape me, I definitely need 2 rear tyres at around £350, its MOT is due next month and it’s throwing a wobbly about something. Great purchasing by me as always. Still, this fella seemed quite taken with it 

And finally, if you’ve never been up here, please do. It’s our 3rd time now and the roads and scenery are like nowhere else 

[J-T]

Well it’s gotten us home. Albeit it would appear to have chucked half the fuel it’s used out of the exhaust. MPG went down from 27/28 to 21. Hopefully it’s not shagged the cats.

I might buy a code reader and see what it’s saying before it goes in to Mr Jag. I’m thinking MAF/coils.

Oh, and it has utterly and totally LUNCHED the rear tyres in 1000 miles. It would appear when Kumho tyres get low, they have fuck all left to give. I’m not posting a photo as they’re embarrassingly bad, as in they are now semi-slicks 😳 never seen degradation like it in such a short time 
 

[J-T]

After a two week wait, it’s finally been code-read and smoke tested. It has an air leak around the throttle body at the back of the supercharger. Common apparently.

”OK, when can you fix it?”

”That’ll be another 2 weeks”

So that’ll be a month it’s sat there broken. It’s the thirstiest driveway ornament I’ve ever bought. Fuck’s SAKE. Oh, and the MOT runs out this month.

Meanwhile the BMW that I’m supposed to be getting rid of for this continues giving absolute sterling service day in day out, never having caused me an issue in 2.5yrs. Why do we do this?

[Dave_Q]

I've concluded that I like the fixing as much as the driving. Yes it's inconvenient at times, I just had to drive my van to Sheffield 2 days in a row at £10 a time for CAZ charges as the Audi is off the road waiting for me to replace the oil pickup.

But the satisfaction of putting it all right keeps me going. I don't put things into garages though, think I would have been buying a smoke machine and trying to do it myself before waiting 1 month + but your supercharged V8 is a bit more complicated than my golf engine with a turbo.

Keeping the 335 long term or just until this one is sorted*?

[J-T]

6 hours ago, Dave_Q said:

I've concluded that I like the fixing as much as the driving. Yes it's inconvenient at times, I just had to drive my van to Sheffield 2 days in a row at £10 a time for CAZ charges as the Audi is off the road waiting for me to replace the oil pickup.

But the satisfaction of putting it all right keeps me going. I don't put things into garages though, think I would have been buying a smoke machine and trying to do it myself before waiting 1 month + but your supercharged V8 is a bit more complicated than my golf engine with a turbo.

Keeping the 335 long term or just until this one is sorted*?

I think usually I’d agree with you. I did consider trying to sort it myself, but I’d need to buy an appropriate code reader, buy a smoke machine, find the time  to actually do it…I could see it taking just as long, costing almost as much and me ending up giving it to a man to fix anyway. Just don’t really have the appetite for spannering at the moment.

I’ve just got a bit of a shitty on with it, as it was supposed to be a treat for myself to help get through a crap time at work but it’s just turned into another thing to stress about. To insure it, when I collected it, I took out another policy and cancelled it within 14 days as the BMW,s policy doesn’t allow you to add a temporary car. That has now long since run out, so each time I take it anywhere I need to day insure it. Also at the moment I’m able to leave it on next door’s drive as the house is empty. It soon won’t be which will leave me with nowhere to put it.

But what can you do, that’s old cars for you. The plan was to sell the BMW, then swap the jag on to the same policy. I just haven’t got that far yet as I need to get it running properly first. 

[J-T]

I suppose I’d best provide the next thrilling instalment…

After another 2 week wait, it returned to the jag specialist on Tue, air leak having previously been located, to get fixed.  As soon as I turn up, I notice something mildly concerning; the actual ‘specialist’: the guy who runs the place is absent. Two lads of about 20 are left running things, whom if I am being kind, are not the sharpest tools in the box. This is confirmed when I hand the keys over to be told ‘Yer, I’ll errr, I’ll try and get it done today but there’s only 2 of us and errr, if it needs parts it might only be ready after easter’

This pissed me off no end after a 2 week wait and no mention that they’d need more than a day, but fuck it, I’d waited this long. Needless to say, no update was forthcoming until I rang late on Wed to be told it would probably be after Easter.

I then received a phone call on Thu afternoon ‘Iyerrr, errr yeh, I’ve had it stripped down and it’s leaking at the EGR valve. But thing is, them bolts are really hard to get to and I can’t get them undone and I don’t wanna snap them because then it’ll be an engine out job. So err, yeh, I’m just gonna have to build it back up and maybe you’ll have to have a word with (owner) when he’s back on Tue and it’ll need booking in again, it’ll be end of April now’

Indeed I will be having a word with (owner) on Tue. I just hope he comes up with a sensible suggestion because I ain’t paying them to strip the fucker down and not fix it for the sake of an EGR bolt which any twat could predict will very likely be difficult to undo. I’ve left it there so I’m hoping a conversation in person will be more productive when I go to collect it.

On a more positive note, it passed its MOT, no advisories.

 

[dome]

You need a new garage!

Or, to start learning how to fix things yourself. First step is a code reader. Second is to use the internet to work out what you need to be doing. Start small and the world's your lobster👍

[Split_Pin]

50 minutes ago, dome said:

You need a new garage!

Or, to start learning how to fix things yourself. First step is a code reader. Second is to use the internet to work out what you need to be doing. Start small and the world's your lobster👍

This 158%.

I've been there. 

When it's something straightforward but heavy, dirty shit like wheel bearings or springs, I fire it into a garage along the road but if its fiddly, foutery, headscratching stuff I always, always do it myself now. I now enjoy cars about twelve times more than I did before.

As dome says, just fire up YouTube. Unless you have a Jowett Javelin or something, there will almost always be someone that's done a video on how to do the job. It makes it appear so much less intimidating than reading a Haynes. 

[Dave_Q]

Dunno man, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a garage to do a job they have quoted for in exchange for money. Especially if they are framing themselves as a jaguar specialist.

It seems like garages are like the vast majority of the building trades I have come across IE absolute shitehawks who are happy to take the money but do such a shit job you wished you had done it yourself.

I do normally do most things myself but I'm finding I have less and less time available to do it so things either sit there for months or don't get done. If there were such a thing as a trustworthy garage I would give them my money instead of wasting my limited free time up to my elbows in rust and grease.

Just checked my own thread and it's been over a month already that my A4 has been parked on the drive waiting for me to have time to start pulling the sump, time in which the sun came out a couple of times and I paid CAZ charges to drive to Sheffield 3 times in the van. Hoping I might get started on it today but its fairly unlikely it'll be finished for at least another couple of weeks.

[J-T]

3 minutes ago, Dave_Q said:

Dunno man, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a garage to do a job they have quoted for in exchange for money. Especially if they are framing themselves as a jaguar specialist.

It seems like garages are like the vast majority of the building trades I have come across IE absolute shitehawks who are happy to take the money but do such a shit job you wished you had done it yourself.

I do normally do most things myself but I'm finding I have less and less time available to do it so things either sit there for months or don't get done. If there were such a thing as a trustworthy garage I would give them my money instead of wasting my limited free time up to my elbows in rust and grease.

100% this. I’m quite happy to have a go and I have done plenty of times in the past, I just laboured under the misapprehension that in this instance it would have been quicker and easier to pay the man rather than constantly looking at the thing sat outside waiting for me to get on with it and playing parts darts with half the induction system. Unfortunately that’s not really worked out.

I also don’t really fancy attempting to extract two seized 8mm bolts from an EGR with terrible access, on my drive when ‘professionals’ with a full suite of tools, a lift, a welder, knowledge of the car were apparently unable. That’s exactly the type of job I’m quite happy to bail on.

It’s annoying as I have an excellent garage that I e used for the best part of 20yrs for all manner of complicated awful stuff that I’ve never had a single issue from. I only decided to try this new place as they were closer, been there for years and Jag only. I think this proves the point that when you find a good place, it ain’t worth the gamble going anywhere else 

 

[Schaefft]

27 minutes ago, Dave_Q said:

Dunno man, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a garage to do a job they have quoted for in exchange for money. Especially if they are framing themselves as a jaguar specialist.

It seems like garages are like the vast majority of the building trades I have come across IE absolute shitehawks who are happy to take the money but do such a shit job you wished you had done it yourself.

I do normally do most things myself but I'm finding I have less and less time available to do it so things either sit there for months or don't get done. If there were such a thing as a trustworthy garage I would give them my money instead of wasting my limited free time up to my elbows in rust and grease.

I don't wanna be that guy as I said it before but I have to say it again. It's the mentality of people that is the problem. Less and less people seem to care about anything because they get their money/success/x anyway. We might not be at the same level as some other countries yet but the will to do a decent job out of principle is diminishing every year. Maybe it's never been there in the first place (I've only been here for s decade) but it's painfully obvious to me that a lot of things are just happening at a different level here and it's starting to drive me mad.

Unfortunately that means do it yourself if you want to do things properly in many cases. If you have the time that is.

[PrinceRupert]

13 hours ago, J-T said:

I suppose I’d best provide the next thrilling instalment…

After another 2 week wait, it returned to the jag specialist on Tue, air leak having previously been located, to get fixed.  As soon as I turn up, I notice something mildly concerning; the actual ‘specialist’: the guy who runs the place is absent. Two lads of about 20 are left running things, whom if I am being kind, are not the sharpest tools in the box. This is confirmed when I hand the keys over to be told ‘Yer, I’ll errr, I’ll try and get it done today but there’s only 2 of us and errr, if it needs parts it might only be ready after easter’

This pissed me off no end after a 2 week wait and no mention that they’d need more than a day, but fuck it, I’d waited this long. Needless to say, no update was forthcoming until I rang late on Wed to be told it would probably be after Easter.

I then received a phone call on Thu afternoon ‘Iyerrr, errr yeh, I’ve had it stripped down and it’s leaking at the EGR valve. But thing is, them bolts are really hard to get to and I can’t get them undone and I don’t wanna snap them because then it’ll be an engine out job. So err, yeh, I’m just gonna have to build it back up and maybe you’ll have to have a word with (owner) when he’s back on Tue and it’ll need booking in again, it’ll be end of April now’

Indeed I will be having a word with (owner) on Tue. I just hope he comes up with a sensible suggestion because I ain’t paying them to strip the fucker down and not fix it for the sake of an EGR bolt which any twat could predict will very likely be difficult to undo. I’ve left it there so I’m hoping a conversation in person will be more productive when I go to collect it.

On a more positive note, it passed its MOT, no advisories.

 

Sounds a bit like the Jag 'specialist' i put the XJ6 i won on here into!

[2flags]

These are a lovely steer once you have sorted out the problems. Once you have  a good garage it's best to carry on using it. Look on the bright side, you could be stuck with a PCP on a new modern, boring Eurobox or Korean SUV 

[J-T]

Update: I’ll keep it fairly brief. It went back in on 3rd May…I have finally gotten it back (hopefully now fixed) today! I cannot fathom how this specialist works. You book the car in 2-3 weeks in advance, you take it in on the date you’ve been given and if you are lucky, it’ll get looked at +/- 2/3 days from then, if it’s something awkward rather than a service or whatever.

After having another go at fixing it with the engine insitu but supercharger removed, he rang to say he was going to have to drop the engine as all other options were now exhausted, did I want to go ahead? Well I didn’t have much option really! Obviously that then meant it got shoved in the corner again. Then, once the engine was out, he reckoned he found a 2nd gasket that was leaking and in need of replacement which took a few days to arrive. So…after aiming for last Friday, then Monday, then Tuesday I got it back today. Not that you’re ever made aware of any of this like, unless you phone up.

To be fair to them, they must have spent a lot longer on this than they’ve charged for, as the bill was still in 3 figures rather than the 4 figures I was expecting. He also didn’t charge for any of the diagnostics and as I’m typing this, I’ve realised I haven’t been charged for MOTing it either. I’m fairly sure this is just a result of them operating in this disorganised manner rather than altruism on their part!

Ive not driven it far, but the light has remained off so far (#prayforJTsJag). It may just be placebo or because I’ve not driven it for a while, but it feels way way more responsive - like a 400bhp car, which I never really thought it did before. Dunno if having that lean running code constantly stored  caused the ECU to dial things down even when not in limp mode but it certainly feels that way.

[stuboy]

On 2/11/2023 at 8:12 PM, J-T said:

kleenex required

[J-T]

Oh joy. A false dawn. The first long(ish) trip and the orange light is once again twinkling. Bastard thing.

I go on holiday tomorrow. I’ll deal with it when I’m back. I’m not bothering with this specialist again, all that will happen is another month long string along, some more parts darts and the same problem. I think I’ll let my usual garage have a go and I’ll order a code reader whilst I’m away so at least I can knock it off.

[J-T]

I'm copying and pasting from a jag forum, but here is a summation of events below. If anyone has any input, I'm all ears, as it looks like I'll be doing it after all:

I bought an '02 STR in Feb this year, it's now covered 102k. Drove it home (100+ miles or so), did a few local journeys all was well, no lights on. After a few weeks, I took it up to the north coast of Scotland and on the way there (so probably covered around 500 miles), after giving it some up a slip road, it threw up the EML and went into restricted performance. Upon return, I had a local jag specialist scan it (I didn't have a scanner at the time), they said it was a code relating to lean running meaning it had an air leak. They smoke tested the inlet and said they found a leak at the EGR. To cut a convoluted story short, they ended up dropping the engine as the EGR bolts were seized and they couldn't get enough access to get them off and they replaced the 3 EGR gaskets (this took weeks). 

I got the car back, did a couple of short journeys and it was fine. First longer journey I did, the light came back on and back in restricted performance. For various reasons I don't have much faith in the specialist above, so I took it somewhere else, who again smoke tested the inlet, saying they can see a leak somewhere, but they don't want to get involved beyond this as they don't want to remove the supercharger or start chasing the leak.

As it was looking more like I'm going to have sort this myself, I bought a code reader. It's showing P0174 'system too lean bank 2'. I've been doing some googling on fuel trims etc and these are the results:

At idle:

STFT Bank1: 0.8%

LTFT Bank1: 0%

 

STFT Bank2: 25.0%

LTFT Bank2: 19.5%

 

At 2500rpm:

STFT Bank1: 15.6%

LTFT Bank1: 3.9%

 

STFT Bank2: 23.4%

LTFT Bank2: 19.5%

 

It's fair to say it's only bank 2 that's affected. I don't really understand why this is, as surely an air leak from the inlet tract would affect both banks? Are there any vac lines etc that only affect bank 2?

I've also read that typically, with an air leak, LTFT should reduce at higher rpm to maintain the AFR. This doesn't seem to be happening, so could this indicate other issues?

It's likely I'm going to have to buy a smoke tester and investigate further, but before I do, I wondered if it could be narrowed down any from the above info? Something else to take into consideration is, after reading through the paperwork, the car seems to have had a history of the EML being lit (although I cannot find reference as to why), however I have found a service invoice from 1000 miles ago in 2021 where all 4 lambda sensors were replaced. As you can probably tell, I'm no mechanic but have a basic understanding so any help appreciated.

[mercedade]

Christ man, that's some bad luck on a terrifying wagon.

I've got nothing to add except words of encouragement, and jealousy for when it's up and running again.

[Dave_Q]

Could the injectors be bad one one side (or a single bad injector on bank 2)?

As I understand it trims are where the engine is trying to put in x% more fuel to hit its target lambda. +25% suggests its commanding much more juice on bank 2 and presumably getting enough to make the lambda most of the time - until full beans are applied and then it can't keep up?

Before getting too far into smoke machines etc it would be worth pulling the injectors and sending them off to be tested, assuming they are old fashioned squirters and not DI or owt I can't imagine this would be too expensive?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/385160661872

Edit: or this one for half the price: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/302743465882

[J-T]

38 minutes ago, Dave_Q said:

Could the injectors be bad one one side (or a single bad injector on bank 2)?

As I understand it trims are where the engine is trying to put in x% more fuel to hit its target lambda. +25% suggests its commanding much more juice on bank 2 and presumably getting enough to make the lambda most of the time - until full beans are applied and then it can't keep up?

Before getting too far into smoke machines etc it would be worth pulling the injectors and sending them off to be tested, assuming they are old fashioned squirters and not DI or owt I can't imagine this would be too expensive?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/385160661872

Edit: or this one for half the price: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/302743465882

That’s my understanding of the fuel trims also, so it’s firing fuel into bank 2 as the lamda is saying there is too much oxygen (which would account for the 14.9mpg it’s currently managing) so it’s trying to sort the mixture. But I would expect the long term trim to drop when held at a higher rpm, as the larger volume of  incoming air would overcome the air leak and so it wouldn’t need as much fuel, but it isn’t dropping which I don’t really understand.

Incidentally, it throws the light on pretty much all the time now, not just when booted. It’ll stay off for that journey once it’s turned off, but it’ll come back on the next ignition cycle.

Is there anything the scan tool may be able to measure on the injectors to see if they’re duff?

 

[Dave_Q]

That I wouldn't know, on VAG they have something about injector adjustment on idle that can give you a clue but no idea on Jag.

I'd expect there to be something similar but you might have to scam through the live data pages on the tool and see what's there unless someone comes along who knows the car and tool.

[J-T]

Just had a look through but there was nothing obvious on the scan tool (but then my cup of knowledge in this area does not spilleth over).

Had another look at the fuel trims and noticed the long term trim on bank 2 never ever deviates from 19.5% regardless of throttle position. Dunno if that means the air leak is just massive or something is giving it duff information 

[Lanciaman]

Having just gone through that very code with my Toyota alphard, first thing I'd do is clean the maf sensor.   Did that and now all good and fuel trims behaving. 

[J-T]

It’s certainly worth a go, but again, I would have thought both banks would be affected if it was a dirty/dodgy MAF 

[Dave_Q]

Lambda sensor would be another idea, do they have the same connector and can they easily be swapped?

Basically for this fault code, the car has a map of presumably lambda Vs speed and load and is trying to achieve a lambda value by adjusting the fuel to match the air.

If it can't and you get this code, it must be:

• The amount of air measured is not right
• The amount of fuel injected is less than it should be or otherwise not what the computer thinks it is
• The lambda on that bank is fucked and reading lean when it isnt

[Crispian_J_Hotson]

I had this code on B1 when the fuel system was put under load. This highlighted the exhaust manifold issue where it's chuffing out fumes, can't read them correctly at lambda and the management tries to adjust, the adjustment required is out of parameter and eml/ reduced performance occurs. I've got the manifold tighter but suspect it's warped and of course, snapped studs. It's not perfect but the fault has not come back. 

Check the pre lambda system. The bastard of this is that the heat shield totally covers the manifold but a blow should be heard on take off, not necessarily revving it whilst stationary. Funny, because my one also has a history of egr replacement.

If the heat shield looks like it's never been off, no one has checked for this.