JT’s fleet: Range Rover Classic

[Eyersey1234]

Ooh I like a guessing game. Is it an old Caddilac? 

[J-T]

Very much European. 

[stripped fred]

Alfa GTV

[J-T]

 

It’s 90 miles home. Wish me luck!

 

[loserone]

What a winner.

 

I'm sure @320touring was showing me pictures of your indicators yesterday

[J-T]

Made it!

Actually drives really well, not a clunk or rattle! But my God it’s shonky. That’s definitely the right distance from which to view! I shall reveal its finer features in due course.

[loserone]

Weiner!

[J-T]

Shall we have a look then? It's a 1986 230TE Auto. I've been half looking out for one for a while and quickly came to the realisation that I was going to have to adjust my expectations price wise. These are no longer £1000 shitters (even though by rights this one should be!) - there's one currently on ebay which looks similar to this, may be a little better for £3650 but with no MOT. A ropey 280TE also made similar money last week.

I should say first off, I did actually go and look at it pre-auction so I did know sort of what I was buying,  the vid on their website showed it running and it passed an MOT in April which gave me some amount of reassurance. I was hoping for a lovely wadge of paperwork upon collection, but I got the new keeper's section of the logbook and err...an MOT. That's my lot. I get the impression that someone has picked it up cheap off an old boy, done some work for the MOT and flipped it on. Oh, this is the key situation..

I assume that's the valet/emergency key? Whatever, it's the only key I've got, which is a bit of an issue as the driver's door lock is dodgy and sometimes jams solid, which makes extracting the key extremely difficult when 95% of it disappears into the lock. Still, should be easy to get copied. T'other one is for the boot which must have had a lock change. On the subject of locks, like most old Mercs, this has vacuum powered central locking and like most old Mercs it now doesn't work properly. There's a vacuum leak, meaning locking has to be done immediately after switching off, otherwise there ain't enough vacuum for it to work so it will only lock the driver's door and the rest will not lock on their own. Conversely, once centrally locked, the doors other than the driver's only open when the car is started and it's got some vacuum again. This is a somewhat major faff, so I'll be looking into that. OK let's go explore

Majestic isn't it; elderly Merc on gravel drive. Hmm? What do you mean, rough?...

Oh that, no, that's what's referred to in the trade as a 'hooked nose latch'. It's a very period adjustment and adds to its authentic appeal

As one can see, it has not become the victim of over-restoration below bonnet and retains all of its workaday usability

Mercedes designed the rocker cover of the mighty, fuel injected 230 power plant to emit a fine mist of oil, all over every component in its immediate proximity in order to bolster their already legendary longevity. This particular unit appears to have had a professional repair to the exhaust manifold, eschewing the outdated gasket sealing arrangement forthe modern, paste jointing compound, sikaflex; a fabled solution on this model to those in the know.

The cooling system has been maintained to the highest order and displays the desirable 'elephant's arse' patination along with the unrecreateable 'glass blower's cheek' bulges

Window seals are characterful and appear to maintain a successful moisture screen. Except in times of rain.

Intrigue has been added to the otherwise barren flanks of the vehicle by charming, naive repairs creating the effect often referred to as 'tetrosyl wave'

The rear Holophane light lenses display only minimal cracking and bumper brightwork reveals a wonderful story of use

A rear wheelarch would benefit from a minor repair. Something to occupy those lazy lockdown days

Whereas the opposite side comes ready repaired, a quality job with the local wob artisan actually taking inspiration from a different model altogether if the crease line is considered. Rarity indeeed.

Internally, the model is resplendant in scrotal vein blue and provides whispers of a life lived. Mercedes' coveted, mattress sprung seating has held up well and in no way has the driver's seat base collapsed, meaning it's like sitting on a collapsing ironing board

The seat back benefits from an invisible reapir to the often problematic side bolster

This being the 'T' model (standing for Tourismus and Transport), load capacity is simply unrivalled. There is a very slight colour difference to the boot floor panel, however this in no way detracts from the sheer 'hewn from granite' quality

A root around its nether regions unearthed some extremely interesting finds. A period 'Renault' paper decal, indicating a French soujourn, backed up by an equally period set of headlamp aim adjusters. Contintenal cruising could not be simpler. However, the piece de resistance was yet to come...

Now how often does a find like this come along? A complete, unmarked Mercedes craftsman's implement wallet with ruched cotton oversleeve. Presented entirely 'as found' and believed to be culturing the potential cure for Covid 19.

I'm sure you'll agree, a fine purchase all round and a cast iron investment. Certainly when looked upon a day later, enthusiasm for the decision to purchase can only grow.

 

 

Plans?

1. Have a poke about underneath and try not to slit my wrists.

2. Give it a PROPER clean inside becuase it really is minging

3. Depending on the outcome of 1., order a new door actuator, replace the coolant hoses, replace rocker cover

4. In no way attempt to sort the cosmetics. If you see me doing this, slap me because I'll be better off just buying a straighter one.

5. Take loads of things to the tip

I may have a look at that exhaust manifold but I don't think it's actually leaking so then again, I might not. I did notice before that what I presume is the fuel pump at the back is letting out a right racket, squealing away. Are they meant to be loud?

[Dave_Q]

With a sales pitch like that you won't be short of buyers if you do decide it's not for you.

Ideal for pretending you are an actual posh person of the sort who buys a car for cash then hands it down to their children complete with dog smell and bailer twine repairs

[J-T]

1 hour ago, Dave_Q said:

With a sales pitch like that you won't be short of buyers if you do decide it's not for you.

Ideal for pretending you are an actual posh person of the sort who buys a car for cash then hands it down to their children complete with dog smell and bailer twine repairs

I’ll phone up Drew Pritchard and ask him to display it in his emporium. They’ll be like a tramp on chips over it

[beko1987]

I'm jealous now after reading that! 

[Fat_Pirate]

Excellent, I love a shonky 'Benz.  I'm definitely going to borrow "...a wonderful story of use" when I next try to sell a car too.

[320touring]

On 6/11/2020 at 1:43 PM, loserone said:

What a winner.

 

I'm sure @320touring was showing me pictures of your indicators yesterday

This is a 123, not a 124.. far too discerning for me:)

 

Looks lovely!

[Peter C]

The exhaust manifold gaskets are like metal shims. I’ve never seen one fail, by which I mean split or burn through. If the manifold nuts and bolts aren’t completely seized, remove the manifold and give the mating surfaces a good clean and reassemble using small quantities of paste.

[anonymous user]

Was I the only one who thought this was a lovely Mercedes cravat, left by a previous owner

 

[J-T]

I spent all yesterday scrubbing the interior and shampooing the seats and carpet on this thing. It almost looks presentable in there now.

Also got it up on ramps and had a poke about underneath; there’s nothing too unexpected. It’s had some action around the jacking points, the rear of the sills and inside the rear wheel arch but the floor pans are good. Did find this hole above the tailpipe where the metal has ceased to exist behind the under seal 

But it’s not near any suspension mounts so should get away with that. Brake lines etc look ok in the main, they’ve been greased where they meet the flexi in the wheel arch.

It’s had a new down pipe which may explain the manifold business (also note ‘tender’ looking patch to chassis rail)

It’s also had a recent new alternator. The oil’s pretty black, the fluid for the rear suspension looks old (though the system doesn’t appear to be leaking) and the ATF looks old so it probably needs all fluids doing. Air filter doesn’t look too bad, but oldish

The oil cap isn’t sealing properly or the rocker cover gasket and there’s a slight weep from the auto box pan. It’s damp rather than properly leaking. The rear diff’s clearly been leaking for a while

Someone has recently rust proofed the trailing arms/spring pans 

 

The inner and outer CV boots are perished but not leaking (yet)

It had failed an MOT on one so I was expecting to see at least one new one, but no

Well that’s certainly inventive! I’m surprised that was considered a passable repair. Some of the rubber fuel lines look really old around the pump. It’s leaking slightly into the front footwell so I’ll keep the carpets out and monitor that. I noticed the door seal wasn’t seated properly at the bottom as you catch it with your foot easily getting out, I reckon it’s more likely that than the window scraper seals but we’ll see.

Not a total disaster area then, just expected neglect.

Plan of action then:

1. Give it a service & replace fluids

2. Replace coolant hoses, probably thermostat & flush system

3. Replace flexible fuel lines around the pump & filter

4. New rear CV boots 

5. New rocker cover gasket & oil cap

6. Change ATF & filter (if I can be arsed)

7. Replace faulty door actuator so the central locking works properly 

I’d also like some opinions on this fuel pump. The car starts and runs fine but the pump’s noisy. I think it’s been changed because all the pics I can find online show a wider pump body that clips straight into its bracket. The one on here is quite narrow and sat inside a big rubber boot, so I dunno if it’s just a cheap Chinese pump and that’s how they are or if it’s straining in agony?

 

[Peter C]

Build up of water in the footwells is most likely related to ingress via the windscreen seal. Water gets past the seal, runs behind the dashboard and A post trim down onto the floorpan. From there, water will pass to the rear footwells via the recesses in the floorpan.

Applying copious amounts of black sealant under the windscreen seal will help - £5 fix!

I recommend that you deal with the rust issues asap. It’s worth getting the base right before investing money in something that will end up getting scrapped before long.

[J-T]

Cheers, I’ll keep an eye on the leak. The rear floor pans weren’t actually wet so I’m naively hoping it was just the door seal.

As for the rust, it’s just passed a test, so there’s nowt too imminent, they’ve already been patched. It’ll be dealt with at each MOT, on a get it thru basis. Bits outside of 30cm from suspension mounts are getting left! If I start stripping suspension etc it’ll end up a full rebuild and if I was doing that, I’d start with a better one. 

[J-T]

On 6/12/2020 at 5:44 PM, J-T said:

 Still, should be easy to get copied

HAHAHAHAHA. My musings on the likelihood of procuring an additional key there from the other day. Turns out that no one actually keeps key blanks for thirty odd year old Mercedes any more. Certainly the 5(!) key cutting premises visited today don’t. I’ve managed to find the correct profile blank on eBay so I’ve ordered that. I also found out that the stubby key is the proper one, it’s just the end’s come off. I think I could probably get one from Mercedes from the VIN but I’m not 100% it’s on its original locks so I’d rather copy what’s there. 
 

In better news, it doesn’t appear to be leaking (it’s had a pretty good test these past couple of days) and almost looks respectable inside now after it’s clean and getting all the carpets back in - they’ve got thick sound deadening on the back that took fooking ages to dry 

Before:

After:

 

[J-T]

On 6/16/2020 at 10:20 PM, J-T said:

In better news, it doesn’t appear to be leaking (it’s had a pretty good test these past couple of days) and almost looks respectable inside now after it’s clean and getting all the carpets back in - they’ve got thick sound deadening on the back that took fooking ages to dry

Why do I come out with this shite? Course it's bloody leaking ?

Driver's side seems much wetter than the passenger side, but the passenger's side is the only place I can find a definite leak, right in the corner of the windscreen seal as @Peter C predicted - you can just make out the wet area inside.

That's leading to water running down the bulkhead on the passenger side. The track in the middle looks to be from another source. That area houses the battery tray on the other side and there's what I presume is an intake grille for the blowers in the scuttle above so I'll have to have a poke about

The rear footwell on this side is dry

Driver's side rear footwell is the wettest area and looks to be flowing back from the front of the car via the channels in the floor and along the vaccuum pipework underneath the black covers

But the front is relatively dry

Except this area in the middle of the door

That loose bit of carpet in front of the seat rail is damp. It seems to correspond to this section on the door where the seal is hanging off because the channel that holds it is rotten. The doors also have badly perished window scraper seals.

The area around the accelerator pedal is slightly damp but I think that might be from the passenger side, leaking across, as I can't find any witness marks for ingress on that side.

These areas near the bonnet hinges drain the roof. I've not yet had a good poke about but I expect there's some issues there be it simply blocked drains or some corrosion

It also has a sunroof to complicate matters. The headlining is completely dry, but if the drains run down the A and B pillars then it could also be that. I think it's likely a combination of all of them. I'll start with the windscreen seal, try and get the door seal properly seated along the bottom and replace the scraper seals (these are already on order from Autodoc along with a load of service bits). If it's still leaking after that, then I'll just seal the sunroof shut.

It's not pouring in; there was probably about 1cm of water in each of the rear channels on the driver's side and it's sat through monsoon rain for the past 2 days but I'd like to get it watertight. Cars that leak and constantly steam up are proper miserable in winter.

 

 

 

[Peter C]

Yep, all looks very familiar!

[somewhatfoolish]

On 6/12/2020 at 5:44 PM, J-T said:

A rear wheelarch would benefit from a minor repair. Something to occupy those lazy lockdown days

Whereas the opposite side comes ready repaired, a quality job with the local wob artisan actually taking inspiration from a different model altogether if the crease line is considered. Rarity indeeed.

 

Before and after; a symphony in wob, whoever did this is a shiter of distinction. It's like those photoshops where someone's mouth has been put on someone else's face, at a glance it's kind of right but on reflection looks really wrong.

[J-T]

I got a bit of spare time today to investigate the drains behind the bonnet hinges. They were completely blocked on both sides, as were the drains at the top of the rear section of the inner wing that they drain on to. Both sides had about 20-30mm of what had become soil in there. Unfortunately, on the driver’s side, large rusty flakes also emerged to reveal...

Oh dear. Well there’s my water leak into the rear footwells - that panel forms the side of the A pillar/scuttle area. Judging by the amount of water in the rear footwell after a quick spray with the hose, the vegetable matter was actually helping to plug the gap! My (probably not)temporary repair involved screwed up balls of duct tape and white bathroom sealant, I’m not posting a pic as it’s too terrible for words. Maybe one day it’ll get the rebuild it deserves but until then, I’ll settle for it just being water tight. The other side was ok, it looked to have had a small repair there already.

I also took the scuttle grilles off and cleared those drains (one side blocked solid) which should stop it spitting water out of the fresh air vents when it’s rained heavily!

I also hoiked out the battery tray to see if that was hiding any nasties but thankfully it was ok. There was a slight casualty there though; there was a red wire connected to the positive terminal via a ring clamp that just snapped as soon as I touched it. I traced it back to what looked like some kind of ignition module, so now it won’t start. Luckily there’s plenty of slack in the cable so I can just crimp a new one on, but I don’t have any, so it’s laid up until that arrives. Never mind!

[1duck]

On 6/13/2020 at 7:20 AM, anonymous user said:

Was I the only one who thought this was a lovely Mercedes cravat, left by a previous owner

 

I thought someone had left a banana under a seat for several months/years.

[J-T]

Amazon came to the rescue and delivered me some crimp connectors the day after that little incident providing me with a running car again.
 

I’m still chasing leaks. I found out I could access that hinge area far better from inside the car by taking the plastic kick trim off the bottom of the A pillar, so I’ve managed to get that area fully water tight now. There’s still a small leak coming from further up the A pillar though. A close examination of the windscreen seal revealed it has shrank on the top corner on that side (passenger side is fine oddly) so I’ve put some black sealant in there today. I’m really hoping that solves it, otherwise I think it’s the sunroof drain which will probably mean sealing it up.

For the leak on the passenger side bottom corner of the screen, I bought some Captain Tolley’s leak cure stuff after reading good things on here. I don’t know if I’m just applying it wrong but it doesn’t seem to have done anything. I prised the seal away from the glass and poured a few drops in. When I checked the next day it hadn’t gone off at all so was still fully liquid between the rubber and the glass, hence it still leaks. Seems shite really.

Also, after managing to get the floors what I thought was fully dry, I realised there was still a load of water trapped underneath the sound deadening pads. These are made up of around a 5mm layer of bitumin type material which is backed by a sticky foam pad glueing it to the floor. Well this foam had soaked up a load of water and wicked it across the entire pad, with the bitumin layer providing no way of it drying out. So that all had to come up. In 1cm chunks. I was fair dreading what this would reveal as that must have been wet for years but to my surprise the metalwork was still rock solid. Most of it didn’t even have any surface rust.

Ive been receiving deliveries of oils and fluids all week to give it a good service, I’m just waiting on the main Parts order from Autodoc - incidentally what a frigging website being able to cross reference everything with manufacturer part numbers. I’ve even been able to order stuff that’s usually dealer only, like heater hoses. Makes ECP look like the shite option that it is. Just don’t be in a hurry to receive it! 

[Peter C]

Your sunroof front drain outlets will be rotten, a common problem. You’ll need to remove the front vinyl wrapped section of the headlining to reveal the outlets, then clean up the rust, then use copper plumbing pipe to make up new sections of outlets, which  will need to be coated with chemical metal to complete the seal. It’s a fiddly job but it will stop the leaks and prevent your car from rotting from the inside out.

https://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/index.php?threads/rotten-w123-sunroof-drains.15004/
 

 

[spike60]

As a temporary bodge on my w126 300se sunroof I plugged the knackered drain from inside the roof with silicone, a drain comes from each corner and it managed  fine with the other 3. I tried not to park with that side downhill and it was a success, so much so I forgot about it.  Ok for one drain! When I bought that car I got 3L of muddy water out of the passenger side footwell, the front left drain was the bother. With the roof open you can see them in the corners and pour water to test them if it's a tilt and slide roof, don't think you can see them with the earlier slide only style.

[spike60]

On 6/14/2020 at 9:15 AM, J-T said:

I spent all yesterday scrubbing the interior and shampooing the seats and carpet on this thing. It almost looks presentable in there now.

Also got it up on ramps and had a poke about underneath; there’s nothing too unexpected. It’s had some action around the jacking points, the rear of the sills and inside the rear wheel arch but the floor pans are good. Did find this hole above the tailpipe where the metal has ceased to exist behind the under seal 

But it’s not near any suspension mounts so should get away with that. Brake lines etc look ok in the main, they’ve been greased where they meet the flexi in the wheel arch.

It’s had a new down pipe which may explain the manifold business (also note ‘tender’ looking patch to chassis rail)

It’s also had a recent new alternator. The oil’s pretty black, the fluid for the rear suspension looks old (though the system doesn’t appear to be leaking) and the ATF looks old so it probably needs all fluids doing. Air filter doesn’t look too bad, but oldish

The oil cap isn’t sealing properly or the rocker cover gasket and there’s a slight weep from the auto box pan. It’s damp rather than properly leaking. The rear diff’s clearly been leaking for a while

Someone has recently rust proofed the trailing arms/spring pans 

 

The inner and outer CV boots are perished but not leaking (yet)

It had failed an MOT on one so I was expecting to see at least one new one, but no

Well that’s certainly inventive! I’m surprised that was considered a passable repair. Some of the rubber fuel lines look really old around the pump. It’s leaking slightly into the front footwell so I’ll keep the carpets out and monitor that. I noticed the door seal wasn’t seated properly at the bottom as you catch it with your foot easily getting out, I reckon it’s more likely that than the window scraper seals but we’ll see.

Not a total disaster area then, just expected neglect.

Plan of action then:

1. Give it a service & replace fluids

2. Replace coolant hoses, probably thermostat & flush system

3. Replace flexible fuel lines around the pump & filter

4. New rear CV boots 

5. New rocker cover gasket & oil cap

6. Change ATF & filter (if I can be arsed)

7. Replace faulty door actuator so the central locking works properly 

I’d also like some opinions on this fuel pump. The car starts and runs fine but the pump’s noisy. I think it’s been changed because all the pics I can find online show a wider pump body that clips straight into its bracket. The one on here is quite narrow and sat inside a big rubber boot, so I dunno if it’s just a cheap Chinese pump and that’s how they are or if it’s straining in agony?

 

I have a 500 SEC at the mo and I changed the fuel pump when I got it as it had an intermitent cutting out issue, I wasn't aware of the original pump running but with the £28 Ebay special I can hear it whine inside the car. I keep meaning to change them back over, the fault wasn't the pump.

[J-T]

2 hours ago, Peter C said:

Your sunroof front drain outlets will be rotten, a common problem. You’ll need to remove the front vinyl wrapped section of the headlining to reveal the outlets, then clean up the rust, then use copper plumbing pipe to make up new sections of outlets, which  will need to be coated with chemical metal to complete the seal. It’s a fiddly job but it will stop the leaks and prevent your car from rotting from the inside out.

https://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/index.php?threads/rotten-w123-sunroof-drains.15004/
 

 

I’ve been trying to convince myself it’s not this. I’ve poured water directly down the Sunroof drain with a watering can and it didn’t end up inside the car, but I think we all know it probably is! I bloody hate sunroofs. Also from the state of the vinyl pad on the headlining, someone’s been there before in that corner, so god knows what I’ll find. 

I got the V5 back yesterday so I had a look online where its previous MOTs were done as I’ve no idea where it’s come from. Aside from the most recent one in Yorkshire, the previous were Hastings, then various areas in London for all those recorded. Travelled a bit then!

[spike60]

2 minutes ago, J-T said:

I’ve been trying to convince myself it’s not this. I’ve poured water directly down the Sunroof drain with a watering can and it didn’t end up inside the car, but I think we all know it probably is! I bloody hate sunroofs. Also from the state of the vinyl pad on the headlining, someone’s been there before in that corner, so god knows what I’ll find. 

I got the V5 back yesterday so I had a look online where its previous MOTs were done as I’ve no idea where it’s come from. Aside from the most recent one in Yorkshire, the previous were Hastings, then various areas in London for all those recorded. Travelled a bit then!

Did you see the water run to the floor under the car from each drain in turn? I think on mine the drains appeared behind the arch liners on the front and ran though  the boot  at the rear IIRC.