bangernomics, where do you draw the line?

[DSdriver]

The when do I scrap it line starts at your heart and heads straight over the horizon to infinity. It is not a line you can cross.

Bangernomics: do not include in the equation service items like tyres and exhausts and brakes - you would have to replace those on any car you drive and almost definitely soon if you buy another cheepy.

[theorganist]

On Saturday I spent £300 buying an 16 year old Citroen C3 (so far it seems very good just a little scruffy), tomorrow I will be spending more than that having a cambelt fitted plus maybe a few other little jobs, the exhaust is blowing and the fanbelt squeals. Many would ask why spend money on it, just drive it till the cambelt snaps then scrap it? For me that is a strange argument, I bought a cheap car as I am short of funds at the moment (with the Maxi repairs) if the cambelt snaps next week then I have to buy another car or find a new engine and then what if the same thing happens again with the next one. Sometimes if a car is basically sound both mechanically and bodily (which fingers crossed this C3 is) then surely it is worth spending money on it rather than possibly buying something you don't know much about and it turning out to be worse than the car you have just scrapped as it needed £500 spent on it and it is only worth £400.

[dieselassist]

I need to get a bit more 'merciless' when it comes to the ailing daily whatever, n sacking it off - its become like 'Onslo' front garden here at times over the years; car with their arse up on axle stands, while I sort some test issues like rear axle bushes, brake lines or the ever time consuming welding; I have a tendency to just 'go at them', working though the cars list of test fails - psychology being its a bit more productive than just staring at the thing... 

 

Invariably, with life the way it is and its many distractions, said ex-daily heap often spends more that the desired or allotted time 'semi-dismembered' awaiting the next bit of spare time, or dry day/calm to do the welding - or whatever; .....it'll eventually get sorted, I sigh as I pass by the thing in the morning on my way to my borrowed or newly acquired €500 'short test new sensation' to carry me to work, while the neighbours look on in semi disgust...

 

....any car over 10 years old here these days is sub €1000 or €800 to buy and its a buyers market at that end so spending time, money, effort etc on these old cars is 'not economically viable' as the sign carrying dark complexioned man kept repeating in the film 'Falling Down' kept repeating... I never see my money back on them of course n its a struggle to shift them...

 

...Its a belligerence, and a buck against the  'throw away society' we live in to attempt to fix them; a Huge Folly, I often think, but I still keeping doing it for some reason...

[sierraman]

Look after them definitely but don’t go at it like a money no object job. Then get out just before serious bills are due.

[bramz7]

I've found myself trying to do this in the past but ending up liking the cars too much to commit to running them I to the ground with minimal necessary outlay.

However, the trick is to buy something you like but don't care about. That's why I'm now keeping the 156. If it breaks, I don't care. I'll spend the money to get it through its approaching MOT but other than that and a bearing it's not getting much more.

All the stuff I've seen to replace it is approaching £1000. If I sell it at £500, is it really going to cost me £500 for the MOT?

 

This is all moot if I win the A2 roffle of course...

[Kiltox]

  On 02/10/2018 at 17:43, beko1987 said:

I sacked the blue laguna off because the pending issues were mounting up, and the unknown were too great. I don't mind lobbing ball joints, brake stuff, even easily bolted on and off ebay/ecp parts on cheap crap, but it got to the stage where:

 

Oil leak from the rocker cover was significant. Common 2.2dci issue, rocker cover gasket isn't expensive. However that gasket is also shared with the plastic inlet manifold gasket (one piece), and the inlet manifold has a habit of cracking, which one only finds after stripping the top of the engine off...

 

Then it hilariously started blowing from 2 injectors. Used injectors were reasonable but not cheap, but then the fun of willthey/won't they of removing 120,000 mile injectors from a diesel engine made it too much of a gamble.

 

Auto box started being harsh at changing. SiC has proven its not a massive tricky job, but if the fluid is too past it, what protective shit would I flush out, plus the cost of the fluid.

 

Off to the bridge it went and enter stage left NuLaguna!

 

NuLaguna was helped massively with a week of parts swapping from Old Laguna, but now the clutch doesn't always return after heavy clutch use (parking, crawling traffic etc). Drives fine, doesn't do it in usual driving so it's being ignored until it breaks or I get rid of the car naturally.

 

I could fix it, but that involves dropping the gearbox to get at the slave cylinder apparently.

 

Dropping the gearbox will reveal fuck knows what with the dual mass flywheel, so again, it's being ignored. I happily fitted new steering components and a windscreen to it over the summer though as it made it nicer* to drive...

 

I'm not a bangernomics person, but there is a definite line to draw. Tbh I'm entering bangernomics now with this car as it'll be replaced next year when I get my bonus, so once the fog light bulb is replaced and an mot obtained it'll just be driven bar anything urgent falling off! It's due an oil change but I did one 8k ago, it doesn't seem too worth it since it'll last the winter on the oil it has

The mistake you made with the blue Laguna was opening the bonnet. I never did, apart from adding screenwash because I am mad for a clean windscreen and go through it faster than petrol

 

That was probably my only foray into “proper” bangernomics - it owed me so little by the end I just gave it away rather than even weighing it in.

[HMC]

My rational brain is bangernomics all the way. But. Give me a memorable drive, an exhaust note or even a comment form a passer by, and its goodbye rational brain, hello "but the car really warrants xyz*"

 

 

*xyz= an amount of expenditure greater than or equal to the value of the car.

 

(sighs)

[Kiltox]

  On 02/10/2018 at 19:30, Björn said:

My rational brain is bangernomics all the way. But. Give me a memorable drive, an exhaust note or even a comment form a passer by, and its goodbye rational brain, hello "but the car really warrants xyz*"

 

 

*xyz= an amount of expenditure greater than or equal to the value of the car.

 

(sighs)

I’m going through this with the Primera but for different reasons - it’s utterly forgettable but does AN CAR exceedingly well.

 

So much so that it now has 4 brand new tyres and has had a service.

 

Currently resisting the temptation to paint the acne ridden front bumper to improve the looks!

[Justin Case]

  On 19/11/2011 at 18:04, Justin Case said:

Spot on. It isn't difficult to find something 3-5 years old with a history rather than a past. I have found over the years that the secret is to buy something recently obsolete, unfashionable and Japanese. This needn't necessarily be an unpleasant experience and you can get some cracking bargains that way.

Sometimes a previous post comes back to bite you, but not with this one I still have the same car that I had when I penned the post, a 20k mile Mazda 6 which I had bought a year before. It has still only done 70k miles so perhaps not a fair comparison with some of the other examples here, but in that time the only repair other than routine replacements has been a steering link at £60 fitted and no FTPs  /smug bastard mode. This makes cost of depreciation plus repairs £1008 per year How does this compare with serial bangernomics, especially as I have had a fairly modern large comfortable estate car with most essential mod cons?.

 

Sx months ago on another thread I said that I was wondering about replacing it with something new. I'm glad I didn't as total maintenance costs have been125 for two tyres (premium make) and £20 for a set of mats, which I might have needed on any other car.

[chompy_snake]

I am at a point where I have learned with cheap cars. Do nothing or as little as possible to it until it proves reliable.

Set a budget maximum and if it goes over or looks like it will.... Get shut

[Jazoli]

  On 02/10/2018 at 19:33, Justin Case said:

Sometimes a previous post comes back to bite you, but not with this one I still have the same car that I had when I penned the post, a 20k mile Mazda 6 which I had bought a year before. It has still only done 70k miles so perhaps not a fair comparison with some of the other examples here, but in that time the only repair other than routine replacements has been a steering link at £60 fitted and no FTPs  /smug bastard mode. This makes cost of depreciation plus repairs £1008 per year How does this compare with serial bangernomics, especially as I have had a fairly modern large comfortable estate car with most essential mod cons?.

 

Sx months ago on another thread I said that I was wondering about replacing it with something new. I'm glad I didn't as total maintenance costs have been125 for two tyres (premium make) and £20 for a set of mats, which I might have needed on any other car.

 

 

But that isn't bangernomics, and a lot of people would not have £7k odd (a guess) to buy a newer car with, all you are doing is buying a lightly used car, I would fully expect a 3-5 year old car to be totally reliable and cost very little apart from tyres and servicing.

 

This is changing now as most modern stuff is hideously complex and the constant drive for lower emissions and downsized engines is making a lot of cars a nightmare to buy 3-5 years old out of warranty, I'd rather have a decent older car which only stands me a couple of grand which I'm prepared to walk away from if it seriously shits itself, rather than on the hook with a £7k car which you are committed to fixing it regardless of cost if it goes expensively wrong, or a brand new one or lease or pcp.

[jon.k]

It’s holding your nerve... my golf may well need a new clutch before it’s mot but I would be extremely surprised if it passes that without expense, and it’s also on cambelt roulette. So it is real bangernomics of letting it fight for its survival for as long as possible. It might surprise us. Every long journey is a bit of a nerve wracker though, especially with a bit of intermittent limp mode going on.

 

I had a 406 that cost me nothing in the end because I scrapped it just before tyres, clutch (and of course cambelt) were due. In my experience spending money on maintenance at this end of the market hasn’t ended well, because you get deeper and deeper in for a car that is rubbish.

 

My other banger, a 305, has had about 5 times its purchase price spent on it in 18 months and it’s still a banger. Not good bangernomics but I like it and I want to keep it on the road.

[sierraman]

I’m still looking forward to when Insignias and the new shape Focuses are bangers.

[jon.k]

I’m looking forward to when I feel old, sensible and rich enough to buy a nearly new car which I would actually like to drive in. Until then I’ll stick with bangers that I would have liked when they were new 20 years ago!

[Richard]

  On 02/10/2018 at 20:30, sierraman said:

I’m still looking forward to when Insignias and the new shape Focuses are bangers.

 

Surely they have been for quite some time, isn't the Insignia nearly ten years old? 

[sierraman]

Not quite... if it’s not sub thousand quid then it isn’t bangerdom!

[jon.k]

  On 02/10/2018 at 18:20, DSdriver said:

The when do I scrap it line starts at your heart and heads straight over the horizon to infinity. It is not a line you can cross.

Bangernomics: do not include in the equation service items like tyres and exhausts and brakes - you would have to replace those on any car you drive and almost definitely soon if you buy another cheepy.

 

I'm feeling that I'm getting more into the swing of bangernomics and for my next buy I think it should be possible to get something with good tyres which will probably outlast the car; exhaust too, brakes a bit more difficult. 

[jon.k]

  On 02/10/2018 at 20:39, sierraman said:

Not quite... if it’s not sub thousand quid then it isn’t bangerdom!

 

 

There must be tiers of bangerdom with different rules as the cars move from "instant scrap it", "should I / shouldn't I", "I think this is worth repairing".

[Richard]

  On 02/10/2018 at 20:39, sierraman said:

Not quite... if it’s not sub thousand quid then it isn’t bangerdom!

 

Three under a grand on Autotrader. All of them come with the engine already fucked, which saves time.

[sierraman]

Absolutely. Why waste the 3 months running round in the bastard to wait till the engine seizes. The 1.8 is a good shout. Slow as fuck but a bit more dependable, also cheap as people won’t want to know cause ‘not diesel m8’

[beko1987]

  On 02/10/2018 at 19:29, Kiltox said:

The mistake you made with the blue Laguna was opening the bonnet. I never did, apart from adding screenwash because I am mad for a clean windscreen and go through it faster than petrol

 

That was probably my only foray into “proper” bangernomics - it owed me so little by the end I just gave it away rather than even weighing it in.

I got about 15,000 miles out of it for a total spend of less than £100,thats not bad in my mind! Then I made money by getting rid of it

[leanycan]

I work off the following rule of thumb. If a repair is going to cost more than half of what the value of the car is worth then it’s time for it to go. Longest I’ve had a car is 2 years and it was only 6 years old when I got it so I put up with its faults more.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kiltox]

  On 02/10/2018 at 21:28, yehitsryan said:

I work off the following rule of thumb. If a repair is going to cost more than half of what the value of the car is worth then it’s time for it to go. Longest I’ve had a car is 2 years and it was only 6 years old when I got it so I put up with its faults more.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

£170 for 4 tyres on a £300 shitter defies this - I don’t think it’s a hard and fast rule. The next shitter might be just as fucked in worse ways.

[leanycan]

  On 02/10/2018 at 21:39, Kiltox said:

£170 for 4 tyres on a £300 shitter defies this - I don’t think it’s a hard and fast rule. The next shitter might be just as fucked in worse ways.

True. Consumables I.e tires, breaks etc I suppose is fair enough as these can’t be avoided. But if it’s any majorly mechanical I would usually just leave it.

 

 

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[Talbot]

I've done various different models of bangernomics, but my generally favoured version appears to be running the same model of car for years. Buy one when I don't especially need a car, get it useable and then use it. When it's looking a bit ill (or even before if a car comes up for sale) then buy another. The key is not getting rid of the old one until it's been picked clean of all the bits that are either known issues, or are valuable.

 

Then buy another, and repeat. I've very rarely actually sold a car. Most of my cars come to me to die.. I break them for every possible spare and then weigh in the shell.

 

I had string of Seven Talbot Horizons, including a rogue Alpine.

Two MK2 granadas

five Fiat X1/9s

six Pug 405s

six or seven Citroen BXs.

Two Sevel J5 vans

Five Citroen CXs

Two Merc W210s

 

I barely ever pay more than a couple of hundred quid for a car, and many of them are free/bridge money. I barely ever have to buy tyres as I end up with a surplus of them, and when I do they are part-worns. Service items are as cheap as possible off ebay, or I don't bother with them, or bodge up some alternative (many of my cars have had a piece of foam filter material jammed in where a paper filter should be). Exhausts get welded. Bodywork gets welded (but often only painted to stop corrosion). Knackered mountings get re-bonded or replaced with some other chunk of rubber. Parts that are broken and useless get removed and binned.

 

I can be quite ruthless with my bangernomics. Some vehicles get a bit more, like an old BX I quite liked, so it got things like cambelt/water pump done and various other bits fixed, but even that was the cheapest parts possible or bits nicked off other BX.

 

Bollocks to spending actual proper money on a depreciating asset.

 

A manager I used to work for years ago (when I had the Alpine) told me that having a crap old car was just not worth it, and I should invest in a better car. I proudly came in two weeks later and told him I'd taken his advice and had invested in a much better car. "Oh? What did you buy?". "A £500 Pug 405 TD estate." His facepalm was epic and if I'd had a camera on me, could have brought forward the facepalm meme by many years. Compared to the Alpine, it *was* a massively better car! Still, that 405 was one of the few cars I have ever sold.. it did 6 months service with absolutely no work done to it at all, and I sold it for £550. Soooooperb!

[Kiltox]

I would hate to work for a manager that cares what car I drive - closest I came was “this is the fourth time you’ve been late because of a broken down car - sort it out because the next time I won’t be able to turn a blind eye and will need to go to HR”

[sierraman]

I’m frequently the scorn of laughter at my work due to my choice on crap old cars. However I’m not the one crying on the day the payments due or bumming £50 off colleagues to put fuel in the Audi I have on PCP.

[leanycan]

  On 02/10/2018 at 21:59, sierraman said:

I’m frequently the scorn of laughter at my work due to my choice on crap old cars. However I’m not the one crying on the day the payments due or bumming £50 off colleagues to put fuel in the Audi I have on PCP.

 

 

My own personal view is why pay over the odds for something that isn't really yours. It is better to keep the money aside for what you spend on a year on a pcp contract, run a shiter and then when you have saved the money for a nice car you can then afford to go and buy it. I wouldn't be happy financing a car for 3-5 years when it is isn't really your own and how many people keep a job for more than 5 years nowadays. 

[Kiltox]

  On 02/10/2018 at 21:59, sierraman said:

I’m frequently the scorn of laughter at my work due to my choice on crap old cars. However I’m not the one crying on the day the payments due or bumming £50 off colleagues to put fuel in the Audi I have on PCP.

Cannot wait to park my £300 Primera outside of my* £300,000 house, tbh

 

*Halifax, a trading name of Bank of Scotland plc

[DodgyBastard]

I think if I really tried, I could do bangernomics reasonably well but I recently had an old Proton with a long test and a blown head gasket, I knew if I didn't get it fixed it was likely to be difficult to sell so I paid for the head gasket and sold the car on at a loss to try and give it a future rather than just being scrapped.