invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[JJ0063]

I am hoping to and it should possible to get it put back on its original registration, its vital I am able to do so, so i can get it Tax/MOT exempt so i can get it parked up on my dead end with minimal fuss/expense

 

and im hoping with insurance, even if i cant get it insured in my name, that i can get it insured via my mum, (50 something women who has had a licence since the late 80s/early 90s is pretty much an insurers ideal client no?  ) then when the time comes, add me on as a named driver or such

The first part sounds like a plan but you won’t be able to be added to someone else’s policy as a named driver, ‘fronting’ is illegal and classed as fraud. 10-15 years ago you could do it but it’s been stamped out now. Almost all insurers now will not cover named drivers under 25 for this reason.

 

How old are you Dez? I can have a think of options for you.

[SiC]

and im hoping with insurance, even if i cant get it insured in my name, that i can get it insured via my mum, (50 something women who has had a licence since the late 80s/early 90s is pretty much an insurers ideal client no?  ) then when the time comes, add me on as a named driver or such

Which insurer? If going down the cheaper Classic route, most polices require you to insure another car that isn't a classic with another insurer. Iirc your mum doesn't have a car?

 

Also even someone in their 50s who has had a licence for a long time will find insurance in London nightmarishly expensive.

 

You'd have a lot easier route with this if you didn't live right near Central London!

[LightBulbFun]

The first part sounds like a plan but you won’t be able to be added to someone else’s policy as a named driver, ‘fronting’ is illegal and classed as fraud. 10-15 years ago you could do it but it’s been stamped out now. Almost all insurers now will not cover named drivers under 25 for this reason.

 

How old are you Dez? I can have a think of options for you.

 

oh interesting didn't know that, I thought it was commonly done thing didn't realise it was illegal!

 

(iv seen it discussed here many times, and even top gear touched on it at one point)

 

it is worth mentioning that my mum plans to use the invacar as much as I do to run around in for errands n stuff

 

currently im 19 will be turning 20 in September

 

 

Which insurer? If going down the cheaper Classic route, most polices require you to insure another car that isn't a classic with another insurer. Iirc your mum doesn't have a car?

 

Also even someone in their 50s who has had a licence for a long time will find insurance in London nightmarishly expensive.

 

You'd have a lot easier route with this if you didn't live right near Central London!

 

not really thought about which insurer yet, but im thinking hagerty? thats who a lot of people with classic cars here seem to go with, and they have experience insuring invacars   (IIRC Both TWC and TPA are insured via hagerty)

 

"You'd have a lot easier route with this if you didn't live right near Central London!"

 

Tell me about it! *sigh*

 

I would love to GTFO from here, but I can barely scrape together enough cash to afford an invacar, let alone move out to somewhere new sadly

[SiC]

I'm with Hagerty this year for my two classics. They specifically asked and checked that I had a full policy on a non classic car. Had to give the year, make and model of them.

 

You need to start making a few calls and get insurance quotes.

 

Yes fronting is illegal. Many of us did it when younger usually unaware it was illegal and back then it wasn't clearly stated it was either. Nowadays it's well known and insurers are hot on making sure it doesn't happen.

[JJ0063]

Hagerty and almost any insurer I work with and can think of will run a mile if you called them to insure an Invacar for a mother/son combo on the road in London, guaranteed.

 

Regardless of what you hear, the large majority of insurers will not touch a young driver unless the policy is in their own name. I could bore you for hours about underwriting, risk analysis and stats/figures but it’s all quite obvious when you think about it.

 

Regardless of what you know about in your area, in the eyes of an insurer I’d say there’s a bloody high chance of an Invacar in Hackney being vandalised or stolen within weeks if it’s parked on the side of the road. They have no security and would be hilarious to your typical joy riders. Regardless of whether you or your mum insured it, it’d still be a bad risk to any insurer unfortunately!

[Scruffy Bodger]

Hagerty and almost any insurer I work with and can think of will run a mile if you called them to insure an Invacar for a mother/son combo on the road in London, guaranteed.

 

Regardless of what you hear, the large majority of insurers will not touch a young driver unless the policy is in their own name. I could bore you for hours about underwriting, risk analysis and stats/figures but it’s all quite obvious when you think about it.

 

Regardless of what you know about in your area, in the eyes of an insurer I’d say there’s a bloody high chance of an Invacar in Hackney being vandalised or stolen within weeks if it’s parked on the side of the road. They have no security and would be hilarious to your typical joy riders. Regardless of whether you or your mum insured it, it’d still be a bad risk to any insurer unfortunately!

 

Are you sure you want to piss on his bonfire any more? Read the thread and see where this lad is currently at. Insurance is one of if not the biggest scams going, especially for someone who's just passed their test  and it sounds like you are complicit in the process tbh.

 

Get it bought IF it's any good and it's what you want. I went against the grain and bought a kit car in my very early twenties and I fucking loved it. Totally impractical for passengers, freezing cold in winter, horrendous on fuel etc etc. I've never ever regretted buying it.

[JJ0063]

Are you sure you want to piss on his bonfire any more? Read the thread and see where this lad is currently at. Insurance is one of if not the biggest scams going, especially for someone who's just passed their test and it sounds like you are complicit in the process tbh.

 

Get it bought IF it's any good and it's what you want. I went against the grain and bought a kit car in my very early twenties and I fucking loved it. Totally impractical for passengers, freezing cold in winter, horrendous on fuel etc etc. I've never ever regretted buying it.

I knew a post like this would appear and fully expected it. As I posted before, I have a lot of admiration for the enthusiasm Dez has and think it’s fantastic that a young lad is so keen on a car like this.

 

I genuinely care, hence pointing factors out for Dez to consider. It’s easy for us to all sit bank and say fuck it, buy it and worry about everything else later on but keeping my sensible head on here, where’s that going to get the poor lad? Dez is referring to having saved up a few hundred quid and some odd change. I couldn’t think of anything worse than him blowing it on a car that needs loads of work, having to keep it either at some else’s house indefinitely or risk it on the side of the road and hope for the best along with no restoration funds or the money to get the license to actually drive the thing!

 

Call me anything you want but I’m a realist and just don’t want to see Dez rush into this and regret it. He’s clearly a great lad and deserves some luck with it.. me giving some advice to him (clearly educating as he admitted he wasn’t aware) doesn’t make me complicit in the process of insurance being a scam. Trust me, I hate insurance as much as anyone else.

 

Dez - genuinely hope this goes the right way for you, apologies if I come across like I’m raining on your parade but I have made enough mistakes in my 50+ car purchases in the last 10 years to want to offer some honest, caring advice.

 

I won’t make any further comment on this thread as I’m clearly being seen as going against the grain for the sake of it.

[LightBulbFun]

I knew a post like this would appear and fully expected it. As I posted before, I have a lot of admiration for the enthusiasm Dez has and think it’s fantastic that a young lad is so keen on a car like this.

 

I genuinely care, hence pointing factors out for Dez to consider. It’s easy for us to all sit bank and say fuck it, buy it and worry about everything else later on but keeping my sensible head on here, where’s that going to get the poor lad? Dez is referring to having saved up a few hundred quid and some odd change. I couldn’t think of anything worse than him blowing it on a car that needs loads of work, having to keep it either at some else’s house indefinitely or risk it on the side of the road and hope for the best along with no restoration funds or the money to get the license to actually drive the thing!

 

Call me anything you want but I’m a realist and just don’t want to see Dez rush into this and regret it. He’s clearly a great lad and deserves some luck with it.. me giving some advice to him (clearly educating as he admitted he wasn’t aware) doesn’t make me complicit in the process of insurance being a scam. Trust me, I hate insurance as much as anyone else.

 

Dez - genuinely hope this goes the right way for you, apologies if I come across like I’m raining on your parade but I have made enough mistakes in my 50+ car purchases in the last 10 years to want to offer some honest, caring advice.

 

I won’t make any further comment on this thread as I’m clearly being seen as going against the grain for the sake of it.

 

I do appreciate the concern/advice on it all,   (however I will admit, that post did come across with a pissing on chips vibe if ya get me)

 

going back to the fronting thing quickly, just been giving this a read https://www.abi.org.uk/products-and-issues/choosing-the-right-insurance/motor-insurance/named-drivers/

 

is it still fronting if the older person does actually use the vehicle on a regular basis?

 

but lets say that idea is dead

 

didn't someone mention there was an insurer doing something for young drivers of Morris minors, I wonder if they could be convinced to extend the policy to include invacars?   

 

[overrun]

(however I will admit, that post did come across with a pissing on chips vibe if ya get me)

 

He is just offering real world advice. Things to consider, following the acquisition of any car.

 

Re financing everything, do you not want to work at all?

If you do, try this company https://www.performanceinpeople.co.uk/ I know a lass who used to work from home, calling Mazda customers who had either bought a new car, or had servicing carried out. Her job was just to complete a short telephone survey gathering their feedback.

 

£2 a call, and she never had to leave the house for the job. Not the most exciting or well paid, but certainly a means to and end.

 

If I were you, I'd contact them and see what they are currently offering.

[captain_70s]

I'd agree that insurance will be a potentially impossible nightmare.
 
It was £1400 a year to insure my Dolly 1300 when I first got it at 20 years old. That was as a second car, doing 4,000 miles a year and kept in a garage in rural Aberdeenshire. Only one classic specialist would touch me (nearly all won't cover anybody under 21-25 and the following year they change their policy to suit). The only classic insurer that will cover younger drivers the last time I checked was Footman James, and they'll only cover Moggy Minor owners as the owners club is HUGE. 
Now I live in Glasgow it costs over £600 to keep a regular car on the road and that's with me being a 27 year old with many years of driving experience and no claims...
 
No non-specialist will cover the car, it won't come up on the system and won't be worth their hassle. No specialist will touch somebody with no full license/under 25.
 

Scruffy Bodger - While it is admirable you bought a kit car in your early 20s it was at least possible to do so. Insurance prices are now so cripplingly expensive and the restrictions on what sort of cars younger people can drive so narrow I genuinely don't think LBF will be able to use the car for another 4/5 years even if he buys it but he'll still have to pay for it's upkeep.

 

When I bought my Dolly as a second car, with free off-road, uncovered parking and with me being in full time employment it still spent most of it's time broken and left me completely destitute. If I was to do it again I'd not have bought it, I'd have saved up for longer and bought a better car and been in a better position to keep it running.

 

 

If LBF had off road parking/a shed localy which could be used indefinitely I'd say go for it, but as it is the plan seems to be to acquire the car and then work out somewhere for it to go. Offers of storage are all well and good but shitters are shitters and will need the space eventually for their own fucked chod at which point you're paying to have a car transported somewhere else again. Also factor in the hassle of getting to a car that is stored elsewhere to work on it, I kept my Dolly in a garage at the other end of my village and that was enough of a distance to make me seriously disinclined to work on it in a dark, cold lock-up.

 

Given that fresh Invacars keep coming out of the woodwork I'd say it's not unlikely more will crop up in the future. It might actually be easier to get hold of a cheaper/more fucked one down the line as a project if you've got better resources in place to store/work on it rather than spend all your savings on a decent car now but not be able to actually do anything with it.

 

 

That's just my 2p worth obviously. If I was any closer and had facilities I'd be happy to help myself with transport/tinkerage/storage but sadly I'm miles away and practically on the bread line as it is...

[Mrcento]

The first part sounds like a plan but you won’t be able to be added to someone else’s policy as a named driver, ‘fronting’ is illegal and classed as fraud. 10-15 years ago you could do it but it’s been stamped out now. Almost all insurers now will not cover named drivers under 25 for this reason.

 

How old are you Dez? I can have a think of options for you.

 

Correct,

 

However if we're just talking about covering the period until it can be driven, I.e needs insurance in between time so it can be parked on a public roadway, then it's going to be ok for his mum to insure it.

 

When the time comes for LBF to drive it though, definitely would need revisited and him to be the main policy holder for the reasons above, anything else is fronting in insurers eyes.

[overrun]

LBF, here's the answer to some of your issues.

 

[lanciamatt]

Life is about making decisions and enjoying your self, sometimes those decisions are not the best looking back. When I was in my teens I had a fiat uno on a c plate, it was a cracking little car, but I wanted to change it, everybody said don't, but I did, I swapped it for a fiat regata which was fucked, rotten, and wouldn't run right. I liked it, looking back it was a bad move but hey you only live once, the point I'm trying to make is if you want it get it and worry about other things later

[Sir Snipes]

There's no reason why his Mum can't try to insure it so it can be kept on the road and as a fire/theft risk without LBF driving it.

 

I have to agree about it being a magnet for the local toe-rags though. They'd tear it apart.

[MorrisItalSLX]

I replaced a sensible Hyundai for an 80s Jaguar around your age, best decision I have ever made. Yes it has been a costly one, but the satisfaction of driving a car you love is very rewarding.

[steveo3002]

i think your best hope if you can reach an agreeable buying price is to hope someone will store it in the corner of a field until maybe matters improve and you can move it closer to home , geting it owned is half the battle , maybe one day you could rent a council garage or move to somewhere with  a garden etc

[LightBulbFun]

alright text message has been sent to the seller and PM sent to busmansholiday 

 

 

hopefully iv not made a *complete* tit of myself

 

 

 

 

as for the local knuckle draggers (its amazing what vocabulary you learn off of here ), I was wondering, how effective would immobilising it be

 

something like disconnecting the battery and one of the spark plug wires, so if they manage to get inside and try and start it they wont get anything

 

(or i could just disconnect the engine earths but leave everything else hooked up so the dynastart unit just goes *clunk* but nothing actually happens?  )

 

I could also literally chain it to a lamp post through one of the chassis legs maybe, but i feel like that would almost be asking for attention

[mrbenn]

"Scam" or not he still needs to insure the lump of plastic. Some serious delusion in this thread unfortunately.

 

I have to say I think that's rather unkind.

 

LBF: as and when you do pass your driving test would you be eligible for any kind of contribution towards running a car? Like a motability payment or something?

[LightBulbFun]

I have to say I think that's rather unkind.

 

LBF: as and when you do pass your driving test would you be eligible for any kind of contribution towards running a car? Like a motability payment or something?

 

sadly not sure on the motability stuff, still wrestling with the government over all that crap

[steveo3002]

disconnect the battery all you like ...id put my bets on it being rolled over or the door opened and some burning rags thrown in 

[mrbenn]

I'm not suggesting that your opinion is invalid, we are all entitled to our own views. I object to your choice of wording and criticism of others, which has continued in the above post.

[steveo3002]

 your opinion is invalid

i see what you did there

[mrbenn]

i see what you did there

 

I don't appreciate that edit one bit.

[steveo3002]

never mind

[mrbenn]

That's a shame. Thought you were ok, Steve.

[Saabnut]

OK, no one has asked for it, but here is my view

 

Firstly, the only opinion that matters is that of LBF and if he wants to do it, then he should go ahead. At his age I would probably have just bought it and worried about it later, but I am now 57 and my opinion now would be different.

 

Here are a few of my concerns. Buying the car is normally the easy bit, but considering LBFs current financial situation, even that is not easy. Once bought it will need transporting, Sheffield to London is going to cost about £250, yes, it might be cheaper but for budget purposes, that will do. Assuming the registration can be returned to original so MOT/tax exempt (this could prove straightforward, very difficult or indeed impossible. DVLA do not like to return a Q plate, they will but they try to resist) it will then be parked in the open and open to idiots. Given the distinctive looks and the rather horrible name they were known commonly as (S Chariots) I think it will be a prime target and its lifespan before going up in flames would be in the region of days maybe weeks. Secure, preferably undercover storage is essential, and it needs to be very local. I rented a shed with power just 3 miles from home. I ended up using it as storage, it was too far away to be practical for repairs.

 

Now, to keep it on the road, it must be insured. Here are two major problems. Yes, it could be insured by LBFs mum to keep it legal. These are high risk cars and this one is in a high risk area. Zel pays £275 a year in a much lower risk area. Who is going to pay the £300 - £500 a year? LBF cannot afford that at the moment and I doubt his mum would want to pay it either, especially as it could take a year or two to get it in a usable condition. Once it is on the road I doubt LBF would be able to insure it at any price until he is over 25. Not having a licence I think would stop him being a named driver on his mums policy as well, as these are single seaters so he cannot be supervised whilst learning.

 

In my opinion, and as said earlier, my opinion does not count - only LBFs does, here is what I would do. Pass on this one, there will be another along at a later date. Yes, it may be more expensive, but in respect to funds available the percentage will probably be less. Keep the dream, keep saving and get your driving licence. This will at least ease the insurance problems. Save hard, and when you have a decent pot to spend on a car + transport it + fix it + insure it, and you have a driving licence so you can use it, get one bought. I know it is hard to curb the enthusiasm at times - I still find it hard at my age - but it will be for the best. If you do buy it, I can store it (outside) but it will definitely not improve and 600 miles away is not local!

 

Whatever you decide, good luck, you will have my support.

[LightBulbFun]

thank you for your view and I appreciate your advice

 

luckily with the Q plate in this case, if its on a made up chassis number, that I wouldn't have to do anything per say, id just have to apply for the V5 of its real chassis number then swap the plates over to its original plates

 

(although what you do with a V5 etc for a Q reg car that does not technically exist im not sure LOL)

 

now if its Q plated via its actual chassis number then yeah im not sure what the case would be there, going by the fact it IS all original and not a kit car, then i imagine I would at least have a good case for getting it reverted and put back on its original reg

 

 

as for the whole storage thing, im hoping it can at least sit with a shitter in Sheffield or such, and then only drag it down to my place when the time is right...

 

im more then willing to try and pay for said storage in someway or another

 

(I know computers really well, I could be said shitters personal tech support guy or something?   )

 

im just really worried about missing the boat so to speak, especially as I have no idea when or if my life situation will ever improve.

 

(there are people supposedly asking £1K+ for Mk12s that need lots of TLC, so I try not to think what silly price those people might ask for a Model 70, at least this Model 70 looks to be in FAIRLY good shape (well at least its ran 5 years ago LOL) and hopefully I can get it for a vaguely sensible price )

 

keep in mind tho nothings been finalised, busmansholiday or someone could go round to have a look at it for me, and then see the chassis is mostly made up rust and body filler! and then the search would continue

 

 

 

(as a side note on the whole insurance thing, even if I did go down the "sensible" route of say a K11 Micra or such, id still get reamed out the arse insurance wise, and then id also have to worry about Road Tax, LEZ/ULEZ and potential horrible rusty MOT fails, things an invacar would mostly be free of)

 

plus one advantage of an invacar with its only 1 seat is no one can badger you for lifts  (it was my mum who pointed that one out )

 

if anyone asks just point to the passenger carrying is forbidden sign

 

 

 

as iv mentioned before, im in a very much a dammed if I do dammed if I dont situation...

 

but im hoping to hell I can just about make the dammed if I do situation work somehow

[sierraman]

If the guy selling it sees how much you want it then the price will go skywards so keep your cards close to your chest. I’d be tempted to find a council lock up first, again not wanting to piss on anyone’s parade but it’ll no doubt get tipped on its roof and god knows what else if it’s sat on the crime free utopia that is Hackney.

 

Insurance is one of those where you have to accept it’ll be trousers down time until you are into your thirties. Not everyone under 25 drives like a dick but unfortunately a lot do so if my experience is to go on. Hence unfortunately everyone else has to pay through the nose.

[DodgeRover]

Q plates I have some experience of.

You need to know why it was Q'd, this may or may not be recorded on this V5.

Previously used or registered, or date of manufacture unknown along with, built from used parts from multiple vehicles are some of the ones that I have seen.

If it has been allocated a new chassis number the old one will either have been damaged or removed, in this case unless you can find the number stamped elsewhere it is highly unlikely that you will ever get a period correct registration.

 

The DVLA local office in Sheffield didn't like giving out Q plates for no reason certainly not by the start of the 90s and did their best in my experience to try and point people in the direction of age related plates unless you either stated you really weren't bothered, the date of manufacture couldn't be proved or it was a clear case for a Q, hell they even said they would accept manufacturing dates from other registered bikes in the general chassis number range or information from the internet for one of mine.

 

If it has just been allocated a Q for ease of registration you will need a certificate from the manufacturer or a body recognized by the DVLA - this doesn't just mean a club - they need to have been approved by the DVLA.

Again your experience may vary some people have had dating letters excepted from non approved bodies, other people have applied with proof of age from the same person and been flatly refused.

Once you have this it is a simple matter to have a age appropriate number allocated.

[LightBulbFun]

Q plates I have some experience of.

You need to know why it was Q'd, this may or may not be recorded on this V5.

Previously used or registered, or date of manufacture unknown along with, built from used parts from multiple vehicles are some of the ones that I have seen.

If it has been allocated a new chassis number the old one will either have been damaged or removed, in this case unless you can find the number stamped elsewhere it is highly unlikely that you will ever get a period correct registration.

 

The DVLA local office in Sheffield didn't like giving out Q plates for no reason certainly not by the start of the 90s and did their best in my experience to try and point people in the direction of age related plates unless you either stated you really weren't bothered, the date of manufacture couldn't be proved or it was a clear case for a Q, hell they even said they would accept manufacturing dates from other registered bikes in the general chassis number range or information from the internet for one of mine.

 

If it has just been allocated a Q for ease of registration you will need a certificate from the manufacturer or a body recognized by the DVLA - this doesn't just mean a club - they need to have been approved by the DVLA.

Again your experience may vary some people have had dating letters excepted from non approved bodies, other people have applied with proof of age from the same person and been flatly refused.

Once you have this it is a simple matter to have a age appropriate number allocated.

 

can someone run a HPI check on Q231PVL, and tell me the chassis number?

 

that should give us some insight into how its been Q plated

 

from the chat I had with the guy over the phone, he did mention the VIN plate inside the car is still there, and I know that contains the chassis number and DOM, if only he would send those photos...

 

and I also know a secondary location for the chassis number on the chassis itself

 

its most likely been Q plated because, it would of probably been acquired "under the table" at the time in 1997, keep in mind they where government property, so I imagine it was Q plated illicitly to hide its identity, I have a good feeling that its oringial ID is still on the system, as in if i knew the orignial reg, it would probably just show up as "AC (ELECTRIC) Untaxed since 1997" and as such I imagine I could just apply for a V5 with that reg and its original chassis number

 

(as an aside the ICR is registered with the DVLA i think? they are here https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/747909/v765x1-list-of-vehicle-owners-clubs.pdf )