invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[Datsuncog]

Just checking that you already have this one in the archive?

Facebook - Classic Scrapyard Finds group

Looks to be XEV95S, apparently in Maryhill Rd, Glasgow, taken around 1995.

[LightBulbFun]

11 minutes ago, Datsuncog said:

Just checking that you already have this one in the archive?

Facebook - Classic Scrapyard Finds group

Looks to be XEV95S, apparently in Maryhill Rd, Glasgow, taken around 1995.

I do indeed I came across it all the way back in 2019  twas how I discovered the XEV49S-XEV116S block, the final block of English registered Invacar Model 70's 

https://autoshite.com/topic/32723-lightbulbfuns-invacar-general-ramble-thread-index-on-page-1-survivors-lists-on-pages-24134-adgecutlers-invacar-mk12-restoration-from-page-186-onwards-still-harping-on/page/44/#comment-1802447

you can find the original high res version here https://www.flickr.com/photos/aqualite/4988661991/

 

 

it also caused Dollywobbler to have a moment over on Zel's thread with the amount of Autoshite in one photograph  

https://autoshite.com/topic/29443-zels-motoring-adventuresrenault-rover-vw-ac-model-70-a-sinclair-c5-0910-carb-tweaks-timing/page/51/#comment-1813830

 

but I appreciate the heads up as always! even if its a photo I have seen before if, its been posted social media suddenly, its still good to be made aware of it, as its always worth scoping out the comment sections, when someone posts an Invacar picture on social media, often times people will then post photographs they have of one from back in the day etc! 

managed to get some good photos from that sort of thing in the past  although sadly thats a closed group so I cant see the comments in this case LOL

 

[Datsuncog]

7 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

sadly thats a closed group so I cant see the comments in this case

Yeah... I had a look, believe me you're not missing anything!

[SiC]

Spotted

Zoom, enhance

[LightBulbFun]

hah! that showed up back in May  although weirdly I never did do a writeup on it then!, I am in communication with the owner about it, he is a scrap yard owner, he said at the time he does want to get it running and take it to shows, but seemingly seems to currently just be keeping it around as yard art, Ido  hope in time it finds itself in a better position! (he himself got it from a yard clearance where it had sat since 1978!)

It does have a chassis plate and have a chassis number, which is awesome, and rather excitingly according to the chassis plate its an Invacar Mk12D! very few of those are known to survive, so its nice to see another one one crop up, but I am still waiting to get a picture of its front suspension so I can verify that it is indeed what the plate says it is.

being a Mk12D however puts it just outside of all the Invacar Mk12 Blocks I have managed to find, Mk12D's being older machines, mean fewer survived into DVLA lookup range, thus much harder to find blocks for, so I am still yet to suss out its registration mark

but the Essex archives are complete so the registration mark can be got from them  

[egg]

Reminds me of how XWC was found in Norfolk.

[quicksilver]

I spotted a Surrey-registered invalid carriage blue AC today

Not entirely sure what it is. DVLA says 1953 AC (interestingly not "AC (Electric)" as so many wrongly are) but that would make it a very early Ace registered before the prototype (TPL 792) and I found a photo captioning it as an "AC Ace (Kirkham)" which appears to be a replica.

[DeanH]

Hull Streetlife Museum

[ruffgeezer]

Spotted this multicoloured one in the Streetlife Museum,  Hull.

It looked the wrong colour to me, and when viewed from the passenger side, it is clear most of it has been repainted at some point.

Right handed tiller control on this one too.

[ruffgeezer]

3 hours ago, DeanH said:

Hull Streetlife Museum

Fucking hell, were you following me?

We visited on Thursday.

[Snake Charmer]

3 hours ago, ruffgeezer said:

Fucking hell, were you following me?

We visited on Thursday.

Looking at the photo  angle he was looking over your shoulder!

[Snake Charmer]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=410332141202828&substory_index=410332141202828&id=355209497938700&sfnsn=scwspmo

[LightBulbFun]

12 hours ago, DeanH said:

Hull Streetlife Museum

 

9 hours ago, ruffgeezer said:

Spotted this multicoloured one in the Streetlife Museum,  Hull.

It looked the wrong colour to me, and when viewed from the passenger side, it is clear most of it has been repainted at some point.

Right handed tiller control on this one too.

Ahh GVW564H a bit of a mystery car that one is! I have known about it for years but dont know much about it at the same time

On 09/05/2021 at 14:46, LightBulbFun said:

On 17/04/2020 at 14:57, Eyersey1234 said:

That reminds me @LightBulbFunI must get to the streetlife museum in Hull when this shitty situation is over and see if I can locate the Invacars there

 

On 17/04/2020 at 15:00, LightBulbFun said:

ah yes see if you can find (and grab pictures of/info on) GVW564H   

Yay! I have a picture of GVW564H at long last  from here http://humbermuseums.com/stores/curators-choice-invacar/

(yet another writeup that claims they where banned! that will forever haunt us I think LOL)

I like its name "Love lingers on"  its interesting to hear that it came off the road in 1976, explains why it does not show up on the DVLA today, I wonder if it even made it onto the computer system or not... 

I also wonder if its a private example or not, they way its talked about makes me think so, I also wonder what prompted its saving, in 1976, the Media was still actively rubbishing them to high hell and back

and they where still common as muck then, so I wonder how or why this one was saved  (not that I am complaining! Just rather curious)

just GVW575H to find out of the 3 GVW-H cars that are known to survive (although I have even less info on GVW575H then I did on GVW564H!)

while you where stalking each other, no one happened to grab a Chassis plate shot did they?  

its one I find curious based on the very short amount of time it spent on the road, and then got donated to the museum, I have to wonder when the museum actually got it?

I do almost wonder if its a private car? but I'd need to see the chassis plate to confirm that (or see its entry in the Essex's archives)

or if it it was a DHSS reserve car that got donated to the museum in the 1990's when Julian Nowil did his wrangling with the Ministry to get a few Villiers machines donated to museums before they all went extinct

 

 

and for those wondering GVW575H did show up in the end and that one was a private car  

On 23/09/2022 at 20:31, LightBulbFun said:

so my 10000th post on here! to celebrate this! I have been holding a couple very special new survivors that cropped up recently, for this occasion  

this first up is this Invacar Mk12E, Which Simon of the ICR got earlier this year! and a nice intact Invacar Mk12 like this is itself a very nice find!

 

but what makes this special is not only does not have foot pedals! which is highly unusual for an Invacar Mk12E! (always knew it was an option but never see a vehicle such equipped until this one) it has a fixed tiller bar with foot operated clutch and brake 

and not only the fact is it GVW575H which is one I had been chasing up for a long time, but it turns out its a private example! and really quite excitingly it came with its original buff logbook which was very interesting to study! its the first Invacar Mk12 buff Logbook I have ever seen!

it was first registered to Invacar Ltd for 2 months before being registered to a Women all the way up in Aberdeenshire! (presumably this is the person who purchased it) it has a an unladen weight listed as 6Cwt which lines up with the 305Kg you will see listed on a Mk12E's V5  

but yeah its really awesome to see that another private Mk12 has been found and saved and to finally find out that yes indeed GVW575H does actually exist! (I had no idea it was a private car, just one I had heard rumblings about but nothing concrete)

I sadly dont know its full story but at some point it was bought as a pair by someone, one (Unknown type but not the trailer I have now!) was turned into a trailer and this one GVW575H was just stashed away until it was finally sold to Simon!

the really curious thing is this Mk12E, GVW575H has only done about 165 miles!  I really do wonder what happened as to such that someone would spend good money buying themselves an Invacar and only to 165 miles in it!

sadly I dont have any better pictures of it! but hopefully in time ill get some! in that I very much want to visit Simons collection (and Simon very much wants me to visit as well) so the plan is when REV is back on the road and reliable, to run up to his place and have a good look at his collection and grab a whole bunch of pictures,

the next Car and this is where it gets really exciting! 

is this one!

you might think it looks familiar indeed it is the Mystery Model 70 from a good few years ago!

I have been wondering about this one for a long time since I first found it, no one had a clue as to which it was, not even one Stuart recognised or anything!

and I finally tracked down who it ended up with! and indeed it something quite special!

turns out that REV is not alone! there is indeed another private Invacar Model 70 out there! this is Private Car number 7 it turns out!  

its really exciting to see! as until now, It was generally thought REV was the only private Invacar Model 70 known to still survive (JHJ548N was taxed until 2008 and had a keeper change in 09 so I really hope that one is still out there somewhere, but I have never been able to verify it sadly)

so its really awesome to see there is another out there!, the story behind it is interesting! im still getting the info and putting the puzzle together but apparently it was bought by a lady in England who took it with her when she moved to the States in the late 1970's! im told theres US documents for it going back to at least 1979!

I did initially wonder if it had been sold to someone new in the US as before the current owner, it was bought by a dad for his disabled son to use, but turns out they where just the next owners after the British lady traded into a Chevy dealership who then donated to an Injured Motorcross youth, who then sold to a friend of the owners where its just been purchased from  this does mean it would have a english registration mark if it was indeed owned by someone in the UK for a couple years before going to the US with them

but curiously enough none of the Invacar Model 70 blocks from the time this vehicle is from show any holes indicating a private car! so thats very interesting (there is a chance it could of been registered outside of Essex, but that in itself is very rare of the handful Private Invacar Model 70's I can find on the DVLA only 1 is non Essex registered, LRL389P the rest where just registered inside of Ministry blocks) being from 1975, I do know that if it was registered in the UK it would of been directly onto the DVLA computer thus a record of it will still exist somewhere in the DVLA today

but sadly due to the DVLA's historic archiving of anything inactive pre 1983, means theres no way for me to pull any data on it at home (not helped by the fact private cars tend to be a bit random in how their chassis numbers where recorded) 

so sadly I dont know its UK registration mark or if it had one! (I say if it had one because I do also wonder if it was ordered/bought by the UK owner as she moved to the US and thus was never registered over here, but again as above still putting the puzzle together!)

 

heres a few more pictures! its interesting to see the mods and make and do mend things its picked up after spending 40 years in the US! like the awful rear lights LOL

and most bizarrely for some reason at some point the hydraulics for the front brake had been disconnected and replaced with a cable operated by its own lever on the handle bars! 

it also seems like someone in the past traveled to the future and pinched @Zelandeth's idea and fitted a blower motor  

 

all in all its a very fascinating and awesome find! so to speak! really awesome to not only find out about a long standing Mystery car but to also find that another private Invacar Model 70 survives out there! and thankfully the owner seems to be very in tune with Invacars and despite normally being someone who is very deep into the car customisation scene (see the woody beetle estate next to it!)

he plans to just treat it to a nice restoration this winter while trying to keep everything as original as possible which I am very pleased to hear, he clearly understands the significance and rarity of what he has  

he also confirmed for me that it was indeed the car being talked about here which I had been wondering about itself for many years!

https://www.acownersclub.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3791.0

did some really field find a Model 70 as far away as the USA? indeed they did! Invacars they really do show up everywhere! 

 

in some regards its quite amusing, as surprising number of Mk12E's from the GVW501H-GVW600H block survive: GVW508H GVW564H GVW575H and GVW600H are all confirmed to still survive!, thats 4 out of one block, funny how thats worked out like that, would be fun to get them all together  

[richardmorris]

Can’t seem to embed the video. 
 

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, richardmorris said:

Can’t seem to embed the video. 
 

https://twitter.com/PaulWoodford84/status/1713469189950677179

hah awesome to see they have it in hand  I knew it was that way, thats the one that was on eBay a little while back its YVX281L, I have been meaning to drop them an email to offer my help, to make sure they are fully informed as to what they have and are in the best position to get it going again  

(I just dont like writing emails LOL)

 

[richardmorris]

19 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

https://twitter.com/PaulWoodford84/status/1713469189950677179

hah awesome to see they have it in hand  I knew it was that way, thats the one that was on eBay a little while back its YVX281L, I have been meaning to drop them an email to offer my help, to make sure they are fully informed as to what they have and are in the best position to get it going again  

(I just dont like writing emails LOL)

 

What’s the model on the right?

[LightBulbFun]

22 minutes ago, richardmorris said:

What’s the model on the right?

thats an Invacar Mk12E  (Model 66 in Ministry speak)

[richardmorris]

6 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

thats an Invacar Mk12E  (Model 66 in Ministry speak)

Smaller and cheaper?

[LightBulbFun]

32 minutes ago, richardmorris said:

Smaller and cheaper?

Older  

 

the Invacar Mk12 was Produced from 1960-1971 (Mk12 Mk12A Mk12B MK12c MK12D Mk12E), Single Cylinder Villiers engine, like all other Ministry petrol machines of the time,

 

the Model 70 was produced from 1971-1978, and was designed to replace everything petrol before it, as a much better more refined and powerful machine, the end and all and be all of Invalid cars

 

with regards to the Invacar Mk12, Contemporary machines would of been the (left) AC Acedes Model 57 and (right) Tippen Delta (Model 59)

and then from 1967-1971, the AC Acedes Model 67 (replacing the Model 57 for the most part)

 

and all these where replaced by the Model 70  

[richardmorris]

I’m sorry folks, I’ve set him off again. You ask one little innocent question…

[Snake Charmer]

On 14/10/2023 at 13:24, quicksilver said:

I spotted a Surrey-registered invalid carriage blue AC today

Not entirely sure what it is. DVLA says 1953 AC (interestingly not "AC (Electric)" as so many wrongly are) but that would make it a very early Ace registered before the prototype (TPL 792) and I found a photo captioning it as an "AC Ace (Kirkham)" which appears to be a replica.

Interesting one, I see a Mkll 289 Cobra from the photo, wider arches, side vent with a Ford badge above and Cobra badge on the front. The engine capacity shown on DVLA would relate to an AC 2ltr six engine, year of manufacture and registration would predate the Mkll Cobra around 10 years  and as you say, older than the prototype!

(I think the alloy 289 body is produced for Kirkham in Warsaw, Poland by the old Mig fighter factory using a buck taken from an original car by Hawk Cars, East Sussex.)

Nice looking car though.

@LightBulbFun What are the cars hiding in the dark in that link I posted?

[LightBulbFun]

3 minutes ago, Snake Charmer said:

Interesting one, I see a Mkll 289 Cobra from the photo, wider arches, side vent with a Ford badge above and Cobra badge on the front. The engine capacity shown on DVLA would relate to an AC 2ltr six engine, year of manufacture and registration would predate the Mkll Cobra around 10 years  and as you say, older than the prototype!

(I think the alloy 289 body is produced for Kirkham in Warsaw, Poland by the old Mig fighter factory using a buck taken from an original car by Hawk Cars, East Sussex.)

Nice looking car though.

@LightBulbFun What are the cars hiding in the dark in that link I posted?

Chassis number on that starts with EH and then 4 numbers if that helps tells you what it is? it certain sounds like an AC chassis number to me, their general style

 

as for the photo you linked, its interesting one, they are likely AC Acedes Model 57, Mk9's (but could also be AC Electric Invalid Tricycle Model 64 Mk3's)

I do find it curious how they are lined up with all the sports cars, I noticed in general AC tended to keep the invalid car side of things seperate from the sports car side of things

but I wonder if those Acedes are private orders, so they dont go out the Ministry door, but go with all the other privately ordered sports cars etc? although this photo is a fair a bit older then most AC factory shots I have, so maybe things where laid out differently then

I wonder if one of those might even be 1940PE?  which is a Private AC Acedes from that period which is known to still survive, although is sadly in quite the state

I wish it could find an @AdgeCutler type home for a full restoration back to its former glory, its very much worth it given its a private machine, which is exceedingly rare

and its also only 1 of only 2 indicator-ear Acedes known to survive, and I belive the sole Mk9 (theres only one Acedes older than it known to survive and thats 594BGN)

 

[Snake Charmer]

I know very little about the AC Saloons, a little digging found some info that EH is a saloon with ENV axle and full hydraulic brakes.

I also found that AC had a factory on Taggs Island for war work and produced 3 wheelers and other projects there post war into the 60's, something I did not know. Maybe this explains the separation between cars and invalid carriage.  Link to Taggs Island information

Perhaps the b&w photo is taken at the Thames Ditton service department as the sports cars look to be Aces and would have been out of production by then.

[quicksilver]

8 minutes ago, Snake Charmer said:

I know very little about the AC Saloons, a little digging found some info that EH is a saloon with ENV axle and full hydraulic brakes.

I also found that AC had a factory on Taggs Island for war work and produced 3 wheelers and other projects there post war into the 60's, something I did not know. Maybe this explains the separation between cars and invalid carriage.  Link to Taggs Island information

Perhaps the b&w photo is taken at the Thames Ditton service department as the sports cars look to be Aces and would have been out of production by then.

So the blue one would appear to be a Kirkham 289 with the identity of an AC 2-litre saloon. Everything I've read suggests the Kirkham is a bespoke build on its own new chassis so I guess the use of a period AC identity is a fiddle to make it eligible for historic racing.

[egg]

47 minutes ago, Snake Charmer said:

a factory on Taggs Island

A remarkable place to put a factory. I mean you don't look at this and go, ideal industrial site...

[egg]

Has anyone read the history of AC cars to know why this island was chosen?

[LightBulbFun]

On 14/10/2023 at 13:24, quicksilver said:

AC (interestingly not "AC (Electric)" as so many wrongly are)

as for this part of it, thats because at the DVLA's start they setup a make code for AC, Z0, this correctly decoded to "AC"

(because remember most data on the DVLA is stored in coded form then decoded back out through a lookup table)

 

however at some point after 1983, someone at the DVLA fucked up,, and incorrectly altered "AC" in the lookup table to read "AC (ELECTRIC)"  so any vehicle registered under the Z0 make code, became "AC (ELECTRIC)" instead, thus from that point forward, all AC's became "AC (ELECTRIC)"s 

now of course AC in one form or another never went away as a current vehicle manufacturer , so the DVLA eventually setup AC another Make code, this time under the make code GD, (rather then fix their fuck up of years prior)

and thats what this AC is registered under, interestingly in the past it looks like it was registered under the Z0 "AC (ELECTRIC)" make code, then someone got the DVLA to change it to GD "AC"

 

and thats one of the things that amuses me, is AC (ELECTRIC) is what is technically correct for a genuine Thames Ditton AC, and it amuses me how many genuine AC sports cars I have seen where people have obviously gone "eww AC (ELECTRIC) what?!" tried to get the DVLA to change that so it thens up as an "AC Cobra 289" or something such all crammed into one line LOL

and its one of the ways you can sort tell if an AC was registered in period properly etc, or registered later down the line or an import

because a proper AC will generally read "AC (ELECTRIC)"  and there was a period of time when they did read "AC" correctly, for example going back to 1940PE, I have seen its 1983 V5, and it correctly reads "AC" although obviously now on the DVLA it reads "AC (ELECTRIC)" 

 

its one of those things i'd love to fix with the DVLA, but how do you go about doing that! 

 

 

what I find interesting, is I wonder how this cockup came about, why would someone ad (ELECTRIC) to the end of AC at the DVLA? but the interesting thing to note here, is the Model 64, is known officially as the AC Electric invalid Tricycle

and thus I have often wondered if somehow someone registering one of those in the 1980's ended up causing this mess!

[LightBulbFun]

2 hours ago, Snake Charmer said:

I also found that AC had a factory on Taggs Island for war work and produced 3 wheelers and other projects there post war into the 60's, something I did not know. Maybe this explains the separation between cars and invalid carriage.  Link to Taggs Island information

Perhaps the b&w photo is taken at the Thames Ditton service department as the sports cars look to be Aces and would have been out of production by then.

thats a fair point, but most if not all the photos I have are from the later 1960's and early 1970's showing Model 67's and Model 70's in production at Thames Ditton, I am not sure I actually have any from Taggs Island...

the closest I have seen to the cars and invalid vehicles mixing is  this photo of a line up of AC Acedes Mk14's, 

although as an aside the caption is wrong its not from 1970/1971, its from ~November 1967 (the Acedes in shot are all part of the SPK block SPK571F-SPK670F)

1 hour ago, egg said:

Has anyone read the history of AC cars to know why this island was chosen?

I have detailed report on the Island from the AC Owners Club magazine, it was emailed to me so I am not sure if I can or cant screen shot it here, but to give a quick summery it was bought by AC in 1941 to expand their capacity for war work, with the attrction being the large and unsually covered, outdoor sports facilities which could be easily converted into production sites, and then manufacturing ending in Early 1966 (so during the Production of the AC Acedes Model 57) which pretty much tells me that yeah I dont have any photos from the site, all the AC invalid vehicle in production photos I have show Model 67's or Model 70's which where a wholy Thames Ditton product 

 

although going back to @Snake Charmer photo those Model 57's from 1963 would be Taggs Island products, and that further raises the question of  what they where doing there among the sports cars, if they where just simply in for some sort of servicing, surely they would have registration marks etc

but they have no reg marks, they look brand new to me in that photo, so its a curious one

 

[LightBulbFun]

On 11/10/2023 at 15:52, LightBulbFun said:

as theres another rather exciting new project in bound that I am very much looking forward to posting about here once it lands

and it has Landed!

 

this rather excitingly, is a 1963 Barrett Midget! Model 60 in Ministry speak, one of only 3 known to survive,  a genuine barn find, actually was found a good many years ago it was a known about car, but recently it came to my attention that where it was being cleared out

so I immediately  jumped on the line talked with the people there to get the low down on it, and then when I told Stuart about it, he actually got the hankering for it himself, and the end result is he has now ended up with it  

which I am really pleased about, its good to see his interest in Invalid Vehicles has been suitably rekindled  

the Barrett Midget for those unaware, was the MoH's Machine for people under 4ft 6 inches in hight and with short arm reach, it was one of the very few Ministry machines that where not blue! instead a metallic green colour, following the formation of the DHSS, in 1968 it was replaced by the Tippen Delta who the Ministry figured they could make work for the same role

it is very much as its name suggests, very small! this is Stuart (who is 5ft 10) sitting in it! it really was made for small people!

and not many cars can make a Peel P50 look large! 

control scheme is just your Standard Ministry (Invacar type) Tiller bar, but theres an additional foot pedal in this particular machine, still trying to work out if its clutch or brakes

Power plant is your usual Villiers lump 

and next door's cat approves  

I have been informed its in really quite good condition, dirty, but otherwise completely solid, which is awesome to hear, hopefully in time it can be made to run and drive  

(not that a normal sized person can actually drive it mind!)

and its been really awesome to get a look at a Barrett Midget in detail like this, with only 3 surviving, there are no detailed pictures sadly!

one of the interesting details is this plaque in the door shut, which ties in very nicely with the Hamblin connection I was researching a while back  

you can read about the Hamblin connection from this post onwards

https://autoshite.com/topic/32723-lightbulbfuns-invacar-general-ramble-thread-index-on-page-1-survivors-lists-on-pages-24134-adgecutlers-invacar-mk12-restoration-from-page-186-onwards-still-harping-on/page/162/#comment-2161562

 

once again I am really pleased with this and that its managed to go to a good home

and hopefully in the coming days/weeks/months ill get more pics and progress to share  

[Mr Pastry]

11 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

still trying to work out if its clutch or brakes

Hopefully clutch, as it has a plastic flexy pipe.