invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[RoverFolkUs]

4 hours ago, Dick Longbridge said:

Hang on, Brian talks? @AdgeCutler's restoration works have no limits!

Off topic, but I don't know what's wrong with me as for some reason I read "Brian talks" in the tone of "dirty cash" (money talks) completely automatically... 🤣

[egg]

Invalid carriage or not?

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, AdgeCutler said:

A couple of shots taken on the way home from a cracking weekend at Rainscombe park. I did mean to capture Brian at Silbury hill but alas someone else was parked in the spot.

looking spectacular as always  

32 minutes ago, egg said:

Invalid carriage or not?

tis indeed, AC Invalid Tricycle

[LightBulbFun]

anyone for a Nelco Solocar? (theres been a few crop up in recent times LOL) GSU946 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275888493023

price feels a bit high given it needs new traction batteries, but it is in good shape otherwise ill give it that

(on an age related registration number but because its a re-registered Jobby not plate robbery thankfully)

 

[LightBulbFun]

Hey @red5 just wondering hows things going with REV? its been over a month since the last update so I am curious to know how things are going! are the brakes finally behaving themselves?  

and do we have any sort of ETA or rough idea how much longer things will take? its been almost a year and half now! so I am obviously quite anxious to get her back! or at least get some sort of rough idea for when she will be back so I can make plans accordingly

(even if you think its going to be another year or such, just let me know so I can plan with that!) and if theres anything I can do that will help safely speed things along do let me know!

[LightBulbFun]

On 12/11/2020 at 10:27, barrett said:

Here's a nice juxtaposition....

 

who's for a recreation shot?  

or well as close damn near it!  

(well I mean I can happily point you in the direction NPB840D if you want to try recreate it fully, you will have to find your own 1907 Fiat however!) @AdgeCutler tells me its been a busy old day for Brian clocking up 130 miles, over 50MPG's and cracking the 1000 miles since return-to-road milestone  

who would of thought that in 2023 someone would be out there doing 1000 miles by Invacar Mk12! goes to show not even the Villiers machines are as bad as the critics would have you believe   

[dollywobbler]

Great to see this car today, though sadly I didn't get a good look around. Just enough to make me think a Model 70 is a lot easier to drive...

[LightBulbFun]

21 minutes ago, dollywobbler said:

Great to see this car today, though sadly I didn't get a good look around. Just enough to make me think a Model 70 is a lot easier to drive...

yeah I am really quite eager to try out a Villiers manual machine for the challenge of it  although from just sitting static in my/the Harper Mk6A it seemed intuitive enough at least

(the harper, and indeed most full bodied Villiers machines use the same control scheme, invented by Invacar)

you can certainly see why the Invacar tiller system won out and is what the Ministry mandated all machines have until the Model 70 came along

 

 

and I am really glad to hear you got to see Brian in person   @AdgeCutler had mentioned travelling in Brian from the Hubnut Social to Lydiard park steam rally, so I was hoping you had seen Brian, but theres been a worrying lack of posts about it on social media from anyone, so I wasent 100% if Brian had actually made it fully or not! I mean I figured if *someone else's* Invacar showed up at a HubNut social, weird-car twitter would have a few pics of it at least, but I guess not LOL

[AdgeCutler]

8 hours ago, dollywobbler said:

Great to see this car today, though sadly I didn't get a good look around. Just enough to make me think a Model 70 is a lot easier to drive...

It was a lovely little event, thanks for your efforts in organising it.

I was looking for a moment to give you a walk around and have a chat but sadly every time I passed you you were somewhat surrounded. I'm not particularly good in social gatherings and prefer to sit in a corner.

As for the driving, it is a little mind bending according to friends that have had a go, but it all felt pretty natural to me after having got to know exactly what is acting upon what for nearly two years prior to even getting to turn a wheel! I can quite comfortably cover fair distances cruising at 40-45mph and enjoy covering miles in a vehicle which you actually have to drive rather than be transported within.

[LightBulbFun]

anyone for a bit of Invacar Mk12c or Mk12D chassis tube?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115831661434 comes with a free engine attached to it

[brummiejon]

More Argson antics…. Flo has oil on her shoes… oil from the differential is leaking through the half shaft into the brake drum…  I need to make a pin spanner then remove the seal as intact as possible so I can measure it up for a replacement…

[LightBulbFun]

Oh Boy! I think someone at the DVLA has *REALLY* dropped a bollock this time

notice how it says Invacare?! yeah It did not always do that

at first glance I think whats happened is some employee has fucked with the lookup tables (for those wondering a bit more about that https://autoshite.com/topic/23298-93-mondy-thread/page/53/?tab=comments#comment-2531439 )

 

see a genuine Invacar was/is registered with the internal make code of ZA which is then run through a lookup table to produce the written word "INVACAR"

someone has taken the lookup table, and for "ZA" has changed "INVACAR" to INVACARE" 

thus everyone with an INVACAR will now read INVACARE, (although curiously for now it only seems to be affecting some but not all vehicles)

 

this is the whole AC vs AC (ELECTRIC) thing again where in the 1980's someone changed the lookup result for the code Z0 (which is/was the code for a Thames Ditton made AC vehicle) to to AC (ELECTRIC), so since then all Thames Ditton AC's read "AC (ELECTRIC)"

 

this is really bad to see as it indicates incompetence at a high up level and a really big data problem, I know its just 1 letter in this case, but INVACARE is a completely different company that makes Mobility scooters, they have nothing to do with INVACAR! 

this is the same as if someone took the Make code result for "JEEP" and changed it to read "GEEP" or a more drastic "FORD" to "CITROEN" suddenly from that point onwards all Fords would show up Citroens!

going to have to properly invistigate this tommrow, I really hope its something else and not someone at the DVLA hijacking the INVACAR make code for INVACARE Mobility scooters as that would as above, be really bad (and not something the DVLA normally do, they even have 2 separate codes for "TRIUMPH" to differentiate between the cars and the motorcycles) 

 

 

[Christine]

OMG  Awesome  hacking of DVLA system 

[LightBulbFun]

19 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

Oh Boy! I think someone at the DVLA has *REALLY* dropped a bollock this time

notice how it says Invacare?! yeah It did not always do that

at first glance I think whats happened is some employee has fucked with the lookup tables (for those wondering a bit more about that https://autoshite.com/topic/23298-93-mondy-thread/page/53/?tab=comments#comment-2531439 )

 

see a genuine Invacar was/is registered with the internal make code of ZA which is then run through a lookup table to produce the written word "INVACAR"

someone has taken the lookup table, and for "ZA" has changed "INVACAR" to INVACARE" 

thus everyone with an INVACAR will now read INVACARE, (although curiously for now it only seems to be affecting some but not all vehicles)

 

this is the whole AC vs AC (ELECTRIC) thing again where in the 1980's someone changed the lookup result for the code Z0 (which is/was the code for a Thames Ditton made AC vehicle) to to AC (ELECTRIC), so since then all Thames Ditton AC's read "AC (ELECTRIC)"

 

this is really bad to see as it indicates incompetence at a high up level and a really big data problem, I know its just 1 letter in this case, but INVACARE is a completely different company that makes Mobility scooters, they have nothing to do with INVACAR! 

this is the same as if someone took the Make code result for "JEEP" and changed it to read "GEEP" or a more drastic "FORD" to "CITROEN" suddenly from that point onwards all Fords would show up Citroens!

going to have to properly invistigate this tommrow, I really hope its something else and not someone at the DVLA hijacking the INVACAR make code for INVACARE Mobility scooters as that would as above, be really bad (and not something the DVLA normally do, they even have 2 separate codes for "TRIUMPH" to differentiate between the cars and the motorcycles) 

 

 

so I had a bit more time to look into this, looks like its only Invacar's that are currently taxed which are affected, those being MEV419P MHJ22P MHJ107P OVW480P VJN953S and WOO848S,  (those that ARE taxed but NOT affected are JBY503J, TWC725K GTW614N LNO970P REV451R RPU821R TTW906R and VJN960S), all Invacars that I have looked up with regards to this that are untaxed/SORN still display correctly at time of writing

I really hope this is just temporary weird glitch, and it resolves itself, but ill have to keep a close eye on things during the coming week and see if it changes or not, note how theres no currently visible rhyme or reason as to the affected vehicle records, all taxed at times with a wide range of last V5's so I dont think it affects only say vehicles which recently had V5 issued or such

keep in mind that NONE of these read "INVACARE" previously, all of them should read "INVACAR" and is indeed what they did read until recently (although when this change happened exactly I dont know...)

[Christine]

1st of April 2023 ...DVLA are monitering your activities...

[warren t claim]

Does it really matter?

[Christine]

You know what can happen with "glitches " Warren ?  Once glitched,  there's no way back , just ask Cavcraft.. or Hooli  ! 

[LightBulbFun]

50 minutes ago, warren t claim said:

Does it really matter?

its funny how people say "does it really matter" when I spot a pretty inherently major issue with the way the DVLA have done/handled things

 

and then people complain that the DVLA are useless when something goes tits up when they have to try and interact with them

 

it might just look like the addition of an "e" but its far deeper than then that

but imagine it another way, imagine say

theres suddenly a new fast car company, called "leylandii" because they are growing fast, and these leylandii cars are getting popular, now imagine you have someone at the DVLA who does not know their history, and suddenly someones goes to register one of these "leylandii" cars, and so the person who does not know any better will go on their DVLA computer and look up leylandii to see what the right make code is for that

but because its a fresh/niche company they wont find "leylandii" but they will find "Leyland Cars" but this person is pretty young and sadly unaware of Autoshite, so does not know any better and has no idea who Leyland is or was, so goes "Oh! there is a make code setup but someones left off the 2 letter I's at the end ill go fix that" so he goes to the look up table and changes "Leyland Cars" to "Leylandii Cars" not knowing that Leyland Cars is a completely different but valid manufacturer 

 

and now in doing so because everything goes through this lookup table, every "Leyland cars" vehicle that is registered with the DVLA will erroneously become "leylandii Cars"

that person has now effectively erased Leyland Cars from the DVLA and messed up all existing records

and so for example if you asked the DVLA "how many Leyland Cars are left" you would get no answer because Leyland has turned into "Leylandii" 

does that make sense?

 

and this is what I fear/suspect has happened with the Invacar vs Invacare situation and is why its fundamentally bad 

 

the DVLA person should of had setup a new make code specifically for "Leylandii Cars" to avoid this (or Invacare in this case)

as was done for example with Triumph where there 2 different make codes for the same string "Triumph" depending on if your registered a Car or a Motorbike

[jon.k]

This must be driving you nuts! What are the chances?!

[warren t claim]

12 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

its funny how people say "does it really matter" when I spot a pretty inherently major issue with the way the DVLA have done/handled things

 

and then people complain that the DVLA are useless when something goes tits up when they have to try and interact with them

 

it might just look like the addition of an "e" but its far deeper than then that

but imagine it another way, imagine say

theres suddenly a new fast car company, called "leylandii" because they are growing fast, and these leylandii cars are getting popular, now imagine you have someone at the DVLA who does not know their history, and suddenly someones goes to register one of these "leylandii" cars, and so the person who does not know any better will go on their DVLA computer and look up leylandii to see what the right make code is for that

but because its a fresh/niche company they wont find "leylandii" but they will find "Leyland Cars" but this person is pretty young and sadly unaware of Autoshite, so does know any better and has no idea who Leyland is or was, so goes Oh! there is a make code setup but someones left off the 2 letter I's at the end ill go fix that" so he goes to the look up table and changes "Leyland Cars" to "Leylandii Cars" not knowing that Leyland Cars is something completely different 

 

and now in doing so because everything goes through this lookup table, every "Leyland cars" vehicle that is registered with the DVLA will erroneously become "leylandii Cars"

that person has now effectively erased Leyland Cars from the DVLA and messed up all existing records

and so for example if you asked the DVLA "how many Leyland Cars are left" you would get no answer because Leyland has turned into "Leylandii" 

does that make sense?

 

and this is what I fear/suspect has happened with the Invacar vs Invacare situation and is why its fundamentally bad 

 

the DVLA person should of had setup a new make code specifically for "Leylandii Cars" to avoid this (or Invacare in this case)

as was done for example with Triumph where there 2 different make codes for the same string "Triumph" depending on if your registered a Car or a Motorbike

You do know that the DVLA have always been shit? Even back in the days when it was the DVLC.

[warren t claim]

You may find that to save money the DVLA outsourced inputting records into their database to the same firm in India that the NHS used. People were getting their records updated with statements like "the patient has had a baloney amputation". 

[warren t claim]

You get what you pay for and as plenty of DVLA services like transfer of ownership are free we could do a lot worse.

[Dead_E23]

Yeah,  I bet the average end user would have the permissions to edit fields like the manufacturer name in the DVLA database so that it updates all the records.   That sounds really likely.

[LightBulbFun]

37 minutes ago, jon.k said:

This must be driving you nuts! What are the chances?!

you have no idea LOL I know people will probably laugh at me for this, but its proper nightmare fuel, I mean its bad enough that its happened at all, but to happen to the Invacar make of all makes, really is almost comical! 

I mean I have seen Invacars show up as "INVACARE" before now, but only ever on 3rd party sites/tools that used their own lookup table and so not something I was overly bothered by

remember vehicle records are stored in coded form and then decoded back to text form by way of a lookup table, and a lot of 3rd party sites grab the raw coded data, and decode it back with their own lookup table, and this lookup table of their own can often be different to what the DVLA themselves have

a good example of this is how a lot BL-AR cars etc show up as one thing on the DVLA/on their V5's

but as another thing usually "ROVER" in the DVSA's MOT checker, because DVSA has its own different lookup table that interprets the codes differently

but to see such a fuckup happen on the DVLA's own records system like this is rather concerning putting it mildly!

33 minutes ago, warren t claim said:

You do know that the DVLA have always been shit? Even back in the days when it was the DVLC.

 

24 minutes ago, warren t claim said:

You get what you pay for and as plenty of DVLA services like transfer of ownership are free we could do a lot worse.

I am well aware things could be a lot worse! I am trying to stop them from getting a lot worse LOL 

11 minutes ago, Dead_E23 said:

Yeah,  I bet the average end user would have the permissions to edit fields like the manufacturer name in the DVLA database so that it updates all the records.   That sounds really likely.

I would fucking hope not LOL but the fact it has happened as i said in my original post, points to someone deep inside the DVLA a good few levels up who does have permissions to make such an edit, fucking something up which again is quite concerning, someone in that position should know better!

 

 

as I said i really hope this is some strange blip that resolves itself, but hopefully this goes someway of explaining why its doing me such a concern in the first place

[warren t claim]

Somewhere along the line a human being has made the decision to register a Maxi as a Rover. That person could either be the owner or the DVLA. The mystery is why somebody made that decision.

[warren t claim]

12 hours ago, warren t claim said:

Somewhere along the line a human being has made the decision to register a Maxi as a Rover. That person could either be the owner or the DVLA. The mystery is why somebody made that decision.

And more to the point, why bother on a car that has clearly been scrapped 30 years ago? Did this coincide with the introduction of Certificates Of Destruction and a scrappy thought he had to enter the name of the manufacturer as they're calling themselves back in 1993? 

[LightBulbFun]

25 minutes ago, warren t claim said:

Somewhere along the line a human being has made the decision to register a Maxi as a Rover. That person could either be the owner or the DVLA. The mystery is why somebody made that decision.

 

20 minutes ago, warren t claim said:

And more to the point, why bother on a car that has clearly been scrapped 30 years ago? Did this coincide with the introduction of Certificates Of Destruction and a scrappy thought he had to enter the name of the manufacturer as they're calling themselves back in 1993? 

its just an example to show how Make and model info is stored in coded form and are run through a lookup table and how because of that the end result can change if the lookup table itself is different, and thus why 3rd party checkers often spit out different/odd info

 

and I used the Maxi example as its one that i have seen quite often and seen people talk about as well, but I have seen it happen to all sorts of BLARG vehicles, its just how the DVSA's MOT checker decodes that set of Make codes supplied to it by the DVLA, 

 

 

[High Jetter]

Yup, the Maxi I bought my wife years ago now identifies as a Rover. VPK 2S.

[warren t claim]

People make mistakes. 

 

[chadders]

Gratuitous Racing Leyland/Jaguar pic. where Leyland is by far the most prominent.