invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[Out Run]

On 4/24/2020 at 1:03 AM, LightBulbFun said:

I wouldn't call the rear wheel arches an afterthought I think they were/are integrated quite well into the overall body shape  

certainly I prefer the look of the overall body shape of the Model 70 over that of the Model 67 but that shouldn't come as a surprise as anyone really!

you say "Model 67. the original design" however  the first Model 70 prototypes predate the first Model 67's, so one could potentially argue the Model 67 was just a stop gap until the Model 70 chassis was ready for its body!

much like the SRT in someways   http://www.countrybus.org/STL/SRT.htm

keeping in mind a Model 67 (especially the Mk14 and Mk14A) is just a Model 57 design with a fibreglass body lumped on top 

but sadly there is very little info out there on the production/development of the Model 67

(one thing id like to find out is how the wheelbase of the 57 and 67 compare so I can figure out just how identical the 2 are LOL)

I’m not really arsed, mate.

[LightBulbFun]

am curious if anyone has any details on this?  more often then not these things turn out not to be an invacar (especially as I cant find it on the IMCDB) but i'm still curious!

On 1/24/2015 at 12:17 AM, MrDuke said:

In the original Miami Vice series, Tubbs (briefly) drove an AC Invacar.

I only know of one Invacar that was "sold" to the US officially when new XGX224 an Invacar Mk12A 

but i'm very curious the details, especially given the "missing" (as in I cant find any trace of them) 13 Private Invacar Model 70's between LRL389P 25th of March 1976 and and  REV451R 5th November 1976

its especially strange how its such a large jump in such a short amount of time (now while its not unheard of for a vehicle from this time period to drop off of the DVLA id be very surprised if all 13 never made it past 1980!)

(theres also 4 private Invacar Model 70's missing between REV451R and UTW339R 27th July 1977)

so I do wonder if those missing cars were actually sold abroad or such? 

[LightBulbFun]

in other news a new big ass light bulb joined the collection a few days ago  

a 1000W (Osram) GEC Mercury vapour lamp, quite pleased to get this as it compliments the 1000W Thorn (and Westinghouse) examples I already have in the collection very nicely  

fittingly? this lamp was made April 1978, right when the last of the English Model 70's where registered (the VPG243S-VPG269S) and probably in general when the last Model 70's where made!

(also means it turns 42 this month ) 

     

heres a couple photos of it at full power it is one bright bastard!  (I only got round to testing it just now and as you can see im pleased to report its working lovely ) 

(I figured as I posted my 1000W Westinghouse example in the LightBulbFun thread in the Open Section, id post my GEC example here especially given the small Model 70 connection LOL  )

[High Jetter]

I wonder if this pic might be of interest?

 

[LightBulbFun]

46 minutes ago, High Jetter said:

I wonder if this pic might be of interest?

 

oh wow that's quite a find! not one I have seen before (shame I cant quite make out the reg of the Invacar Mk12, im trying to work out if its a suffix plate or an XXxxxx plate,) 

I also wonder going by the 2 invalid vehicles (the Invacar and the AC) if the 2 Morris minors are Ministry ones with adapted controls?

 

[High Jetter]

The photo was taken in Eastbourne and HC is a local reg. The further Minor seems to have something on the N/S door just above the waistline - looks a bit like the extra locks they fitted to GPO vans. I can't say if that was a disabled-only parking area. I can't make out what's behind the A40.

[quicksilver]

2 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

oh wow that's quite a find! not one I have seen before (shame I cant quite make out the reg of the Invacar Mk12, im trying to work out if its a suffix plate or an XXxxxx plate,) 

I also wonder going by the 2 invalid vehicles (the Invacar and the AC) if the 2 Morris minors are Ministry ones with adapted controls?

 

The Mk12 looks like PWC 100D or something similar to me

[LightBulbFun]

26 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

The Mk12 looks like PWC 100D or something similar to me

Yeah definitely looks like a WC in there and possibly as a D suffix (PWC-D was issued in period)

might actually feel that one out to plug some of the gap between PVX419D and XWC468F

 

I had thought WC was issued on its own as WCxxxx and xxxxWC but checking the Essex archives list it looks like this was not the case interestingly

even tho OO was also introduced around about the same time in the 1960's but still  issued as OOxxxx (and then xxxxOO etc)

I wonder if theres any other cases of new leading 2 letter registration series being issued in the early 60's like OO?

see OO259 on page 130 as an example  

 

as a side note AEV-A and AHK-A where genuine 1963 A suffix registration serises issued, I wonder if there are/where any genuine A suffix Mk12's made?  

 

really need to get down to the Essex archive office and browse their registiers!

again its on the list of things to do once Im on the road with REV and will be finally for the first time in my life relatively free/able to go where I please! 

[LightBulbFun]

11 hours ago, quicksilver said:

The Mk12 looks like PWC 100D or something similar to me

 

11 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

might actually feel that one out to plug some of the gap between PVX419D and XWC468F

consecu-cars  block looks to be PWC801D-PWC900D

sadly these are the only 2 that show up and I say sadly because they have bad chassis numbers, clearly Mk12 ones, but not ones that match the registration/age of the vehicle etc

they are showing 83xxx chassis numbers, but a Mk12 of this age would be in the 85xxx range, at least PWC841D has its engine size correctly noted down thats rare for a villers machine LOL

(as an example PWC801 is an 81xxx car NNO246C is a 84xxx car PVX419D is an 85xxx car and XWC468F is a 87xxx car, but I know PWC840D/PWC841D are not simply having their 5 mistaken as a 3 as assuming the rest of their numbers are correct then that would put them out of the Pxx-D reg range into the Rxx-D  reg range)

the interesting thing is this is not the first (pair of) older Mk12 iv found on the DVLA that has a false but otherwise still Mk12 chassis number THK195E is another with a 83xxx chassis number even tho again a 83xxx car would be older then THK195E is

this also reminds me of VEV446E  and VEV447E again two that show up together have wrong chassis numbers together but this time 88xxx chassis numbers 

 

I have to say its very interesting how all these earlier Mk12's that did managed to make it onto the DVLA, all ended up with false chassis numbers on their V5's

I have to wonder if these were all the victims of plate swapping or something else, it will be very interesting to see what their orignial entry in the essex archives looks like!

 

 

[keef]

29 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

I have to wonder if these were all the victims of plate swapping or something else, it will be very interesting to see what their orignial entry in the essex archives looks like!

We're plates never used out of sequence?

It seems very odd for someone to bother plate swapping multiple cars. The odd one here and there maybe, but I can't see anything to be gained for what seems like valueless plates.

[LightBulbFun]

9 minutes ago, keef said:

It seems very odd for someone to bother plate swapping multiple cars. The odd one here and there maybe, but I can't see anything to be gained for what seems like valueless plates.

im talking about literal physical number plate swapping in service

lets say you have an Invacar and you go and bin into a tree

now the official procedure for that is, the Approved repairer takes your car and either issues you another one or a temporary one while the old one is being repaired

however some of the less by the book AR's to save paperwork/time/effort  would just take a car from their stash, take the number plates (and sometimes the chassis plate) off your car and just stick em on the car they pulled from the stash and send you back out with "your" car

which is now actually the other car, now wearing your plates

and this causes all number of issues! 

[keef]

2 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

however some of the less by the book AR's to save paperwork/time/effort  would just take a car from their stash, take the plates off your car and just stick em on the car they pulled from the stash and send you back out with "your" car

Would these cars "in the stash" be unregistered then?

[LightBulbFun]

Just now, keef said:

Would these cars "in the stash" be unregistered then?

Nope LOL

theres no actual way to unregister a car with the DVLA...

[keef]

2 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

Nope LOL

theres no actual way to unregister a car with the DVLA...

So how do you know the chassis numbers are wrong? If they are in sequence and so are the plates, that would mean the cars "in the stash" were used on two cars in the same registration batch that both "hit a tree".  Possible but surely, highly unlikely?

So Invacars were all registered prior to/on the point of manufacture? None were registered a few days/weeks/months after coming off the production line?

How can you be sure there is no way to unregister a car (this was pre DVLA anyway).

[LightBulbFun]

10 minutes ago, keef said:

So Invacars were all registered prior to/on the point of manufacture? 

without getting into too many details

pretty much

remember DHSS Invalid vehicles where more or less fleet vehicles

think of them as single seater buses run by a very large bus company 

then it might suddenly all suddenly makes a bit more sense

and as such yeah they where registered in big blocks

for example Invacar reserved and registried 100 registrations/cars at a time, where as AC did 200 at a time normally 

for example REV375R all the way to REV475R are all Invacars, go look through em all if you wanna see for yourself  

 

[barrett]

Just shared by a friend on facebook, photo from 1953 of a Model 43. Quite rare to see images of these early one, I think.

 

[LightBulbFun]

20 minutes ago, barrett said:

Just shared by a friend on facebook, photo from 1953 of a Model 43. Quite rare to see images of these early one, I think.

 

ah very cool  

heres a similar photo I came across of another AC All weather tricycle about a week ago

https://flic.kr/p/dgLkKZ

indeed photos are pretty rare, although I think iv seen more Model 43 AC All weather tricycle photos then I have Harpers!

I think that's probably because the AC all weather Tricycle was a pretty big deal at the time, it was as the name implies one of if not the first invalid carriage to have something resembling proper weather protection etc

so there was quite a bit of publicity on it all etc

sadly only 1 AC All weather tricycle is known to survive today, and its registration number is unknown although I do have what is supposedly its chassis number

but I dont know the chassis number of any other Model 43 to be able to say if what I have is correct etc (somewhat unsurprisingly sadly I have not been able to find an AC All weather tricycle that still shows up on the DVLA)

[LightBulbFun]

speaking of AC All weather Tricycles

not sure if I ever got round to sharing this neat little excerpt  

 

[plasticvandan]

I found the sole survivor lurking in the parts category on eBay,about 10 years ago,alerted Stuart who couldn't believe it,as the last known sighting of one was 1974,and it was then bought by Ian hellings in the usa who is restoring it

[LightBulbFun]

44 minutes ago, plasticvandan said:

I found the sole survivor lurking in the parts category on eBay,about 10 years ago,alerted Stuart who couldn't believe it,as the last known sighting of one was 1974,and it was then bought by Ian hellings in the usa who is restoring it

oh thats very cool never knew you where the one who found it  

you dont happen to have pictures from the original listing or such?

I understand it was from a registration number dealer who bought a load of vintage (scrap?) motorcycles to rob of their reg numbers

which is interesting, since it has no known Number plate, I wonder if it was robbed if its number plate, and although that would be quite sad, it would likely mean it is on the DVLA somewhere! 

[Mrs6C]

5 hours ago, barrett said:

Just shared by a friend on facebook, photo from 1953 of a Model 43. Quite rare to see images of these early one, I think.

 

I'd suggest the photo above is of the same vehicle as the one pictured with the two girls in the cockpit.

The photo above is reversed; the chap's double-breasted suit has the buttons on the wrong side, also the vehicle has its wiper parked on the opposite side and the tax disc or other round sign in the windscreen is the mirror image of the other one.

[LightBulbFun]

On 4/28/2020 at 7:51 PM, Mrs6C said:

I'd suggest the photo above is of the same vehicle as the one pictured with the two girls in the cockpit.

The photo above is reversed; the chap's double-breasted suit has the buttons on the wrong side, also the vehicle has its wiper parked on the opposite side and the tax disc or other round sign in the windscreen is the mirror image of the other one.

good observations! (especially the clothes one, I have 0 fashion sense/clothes knowledge  so Id have never spotted that!)

I was thinking to myself if they where of the same vehicle given the similar setting/colour tone of the pictures etc

but the differences made me think otherwise but now you point out that barrets image has been reversed much more of it fits in

even down to the 1 opaque indicator/side light unit, although I cant see the body damage in barrett's photo that you can see in my photo otherwise (I did notice the opaque sidelight and think is it the same vehicle, but then realised it was on the wrong side, but if the image was flipped then it would be on the correct side)

and I do wonder if its cloudy because of some sort of fire damage, certially the body damage in the one in my photo also looks like fire/heat damage

the AC All weather tricycle Mk2 did suffer from a series flash fires its one of the reasons production was halted, although I don't know where these fires took place in the vehicle

[LightBulbFun]

so in exciting Model 70 news

scott milne has finally got back to me with the chassis numbers of his 3 Unknown Model 70's including the chassis number of 1Leg  

for those unaware 1Leg is this Model 70, one that is relatively well known and one I have been wanting to identify for a very long time now!

espically as its one of the very few Model 70's to still retain its dash gear change (the DHSS had a policy of converting dash change Model 70's to floor change making dash change Model 70's very rare today!)

(pictures are from @trigger I think ) 

so im very pleased to have its chassis number finally so I can ID which one it is!

and im pretty confident its NPD775L, although its chassis number on the chassis itself lacks any sort of leading letter or letters which I have never seen before on a Model 70, but I have never seen an early Model 70 like this in such detail before!

so perhaps early AC Model 70's did not have leading letters on their chassis stamped chassis numbers

however because of this tho, there's a small chance it could YVX274L, but I doubt it, because 1Leg has Deep blue chassis paint, (where as Invacar Model 70's have chassis painted lighter body colour blue)

however i have also never seen an early Invacar Model 70 in detail before so I was wondering @st185cs if you could check WHK372L for me please tell me what colour its chassis is painted please  

(and also again while I know later Invacar Model 70's had full chassis numbers stamped on the chassis itself, perhaps again on the early ones only the numbers where stamped?)

but im pretty sure 1Leg is NPD775L its later britax/rubbolite rear lights also tallies up with NPD775L 2001 tax due date as well

 

the other 2 Unknown Model 70's scott has that I have now been able to ID are NPM938R and TPE242S

I knew of TPE242S before hand, and didn't actually realise it was an unknown car, although sadly I dont currently have pictures of the full car still waiting on those  (hence why its not currently in my survivors list as I did/do not have a picture of it)

but NPM938R is a completely new one to me so thats very exciting! always is very exciting to hear of new survivors!  again still waiting for pics

[LightBulbFun]

  

1 hour ago, barrett said:

Yes, it's Dublin in 1978, cropped from this photo, and there's definitely a Z in the reg somewhere!

 

very interesting and cool find! 

the blue and white colour scheme of that Mk12 dates it to 1967 or earlier so it would have been 11 years old at its youngest 

also my bad I mean one of the 5, not 6! more details of which can be read here 

On 8/21/2019 at 10:58 AM, LightBulbFun said:

Stuart Thinks it may be this one http://rumcars.org/forum/index.php?topic=3800.0

sadly that forum shat all its pictures

however heres a pictures stuart sent me, do you think its the same car? I think its the same car, I mean how many 2 Tone Mk12's are there in the ROI LOL, and the "patina" looks the same between this photo and the one for sale

the most interesting bit for me is "There are several aspects of its possible history which might well be interesting. As it surfaced in the Republic, there is every chance it is one of five second-hand cars sent out via a link up between Invacar Ltd & the Southend-on-Sea Rotary Club in the late 1960s to assist disabled persons in the Republic, which of course did not have the UK Invalid Vehicle Service"

which may go some way to explaining this  https://autoshite.com/topic/32723-invacar-model-70-acquired-and-general-ramble-thread-index-on-page-1-phase-2-finding-a-suitable-driving-schoolinstructor-getting-lessons-and-a-licence/page/32/?tab=comments#comment-1764303

(how did car registrations work in the ROI back then? being its own country im guessing you would have to re-register a car imported there just like you have to re-registre a car from the US here in the UK if you import one, however the above Mk12 is on british plates, unless they stuck the ROI plates over the british ones!)

otherwise it would have to be a private import! which is exciting in its own right

since the ROI did not have any sort of invalid vehicle scheme did they?

 

its also interesting in general to see a Mk12 on non Essex plates!, every villers  Ministry machine iv seen issued to someone in NI looked to have still had factory issued english registration mark

as can been seen here! would love to have the film digitised properly, in 4K or something such  (as a side note check out the Model 57 on whitewalls! at 1:25 LOL)

(it seems like Model 70's where the only DHSS invalid vehicles to be given NI registrations and only seemingly starting in about July 1975 with KOI3637, which so happens to coincide with some direct rule stuff)

 

as this is going a bit off topic?* for @egg's thread iv decided to drag it to mine  

(*I dunno normally I drag things over to my thread as people get twitchy when things suddenly go all Invacar in a non Invacar thread, but obviously thats not the worry here LOL but In this case I felt the above picture is worthy of its own discussion without distracting from @BlankFrank's exploits ) 

[barrett]

That's a deeply sexual bit of film. The Vernon! The early Tippen with wire wheels! Those cheeky little Harpers!

I'm going for a lie-down

[LightBulbFun]

26 minutes ago, barrett said:

That's a deeply sexual bit of film. The Vernon! The early Tippen with wire wheels! Those cheeky little Harpers!

I'm going for a lie-down

Yeah the fact its in colour too is the icing on the cake  (as you may have already seen, the british pathe's youtube channel have several english ITA videos, in black and white but higher quality and they are a sight to behold in their own right ) 

I just wish it was digitised in higher quality, I know something like that would have been filmed on actual film, so if the original film still exists it should be possible to get it digitised in much higher resolution 

(NB as you probably could tell, its not from 1959, the UPU Mk12's in it, date it to at least 1961)

 

[barrett]

That's an 8mm cine film and with the best will in the world it will never look much better than that, sadly

[somewhatfoolish]

With all this Harper talk, any movement on the electric one?

[LightBulbFun]

11 minutes ago, somewhatfoolish said:

With all this Harper talk, any movement on the electric one?

nothing that im aware of sadly

if nothing else happens, it is of course on the list of invalid vehicles I want to go look for/at once im on the road/mobile with REV  

[LightBulbFun]

2 hours ago, The Vicar said:

https://www.donedeal.ie/vintagecars-for-sale/mk1-vw-polo-l/24726413

Mk1 Polo in Norn Iron, £1650

I'm guessing it will gain a rickety old roof rack and lose 50% of its ride height before long..

dragging this one over here because of this photo from the listing

its an old NI Logbook, I have never seen a NI Logbook so its been very interesting to study!

it looks like some weird cross between a V5 and an old school buff logbook!

its interesting to note that theres no 11 digit reference  number of any kind that I can see, but there is a validation character

its also interesting to see the no previous keepers bit, sadly I cant quite make out the word between "no previous keepers" and "since"

its interesting to note the date looks like 1986 which is interesting because if you read the footnotes at the bottom of the page here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_Northern_Ireland

it mentions that NI computerized in October 1986 (compared to 1974-1983 for the DVLC in england) I also see the text at the bottom of the special notes mentions something to do with keepers and computerisation but I cant quite make it all out sadly ( @Datsuncog you dont happen to know what it says do you?  )

so I wonder if its the same thing like in england where keeper counts where not always transferred from the Buff logbooks to the V5's hence sometimes getting "Number of former keepers since such and such date" on V5's of older vehicles here

as seen here for example

 

and I wonder on the Model 70 front, if this whole computerisation thing is potentially why Model 70's in NI between 1975 and 1983 where all NI registried

since by 1975 the DVLC would have been computerized but NI's equivalent was not, so perhaps this presented some sort of incompatibility which meant the IVS had to register the Model 70's it issued to NI, in NI itself?

(the earliest NI registered Model 70 I can find is an Invacar Model 70, KOI3637)

(oh and as an obligatory side note to go with the Polo's registration mark above, TOI8138 TOI4917 TOI4343, and TOI8137 are all Model 70's )