why does the Maxi escape from the flack?

[trigger]

I quite fancy a Maxi 1750, I never used to be that interested in them but the last few years they have grown on me, probably not helped by a chap i know on Facebook who has got a fleet of very nice ones and allowed me to sit in his late V reg 1750 HLS with the most gorgeous interior.

 

[oldcars]

Not many things escape from the Flack, she does do through them a bit.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

 Imagine, for instance, if BL had not wasted so much money developing the Marina (which, despite being cobbled together from existing components, cost as much as the all-new Allegro to develop) and had instead offered a cheaper Dolomite-based Morris instead. Or, instead of piling on additional costs to the already ridiculous SD1 programme, they'd used the six-cylinder E-series instead of developing a whole new power unit (South Africa got E6-powered SD1s and by all accounts they were better than their European counterparts).

 

 

 

 

The Marina was certainly spoiled for a hap'orth of tar. With at least Triumph front struts it would have handled quite well and a bit more spent (or the same spent more wisely) would have resulted in a very competitive car that private buyers and company car drivers actually chose over a Cortina III.

 

The Rover engine was earmarked for further development. It was a big block designed to take bigger bores and a 16V Sprint type head and could have replaced the 3500 V8. The E Series was a dog of an engine really, very long stroke and they didn't last that long - I don't think many got much past 100'000 miles and the HL would need a new set of rings by 50k. Consider than a carburettor 525 engine was doing a DIN certified 150 bhp in the mid seventies, about the same as a 3500 V8. 280 Mercs and 528i's were doing 185 bhp. The E6 could never get close to that. The Rover Six had the basics of a really good engine and the manual 2600 did go very well for its time.

[plasticvandan]

both my dad and grandad had various Maxis,my dads last one (DAB666W) being one of the last.He rated them as being the best car eva in snow,hewas the only one into work in the late 80s.plus the size,and the last production car designed by Issi. The Maxi wasnt launched with any hype like the marina and allegro was,so no one had got expectations for it only to get let down like they did with the latter two.

[HH-R]

The Maxi didn't really hit it's peak until the diesel model with foot high badging on the boot and paint sprayed all over the tyres and number plates.

[M'coli]

...to the already ridiculous SD1 programme, they'd used the six-cylinder E-series...

Other than build quality, corrosion, and the costly Hydragas suspension, the E-series was perhaps the glass jaw of the car's profitability, certainly in 1750 terms - it was so expensive to produce. How many other mass-produced cars of the 70s had a nitrided crankshaft as standard ?

Part if this was the requirement to keep the engine narrow enough to plonk it between the front wheels and hence the Hydragas cans, but that narrowness (siamesed bores, for example) also meant that the only way to go larger enough(than 1485cc) meant for a very long stroke and thus the nitrided crank, because an untreated crank didn't last long enough to see out the warranty period.

[dozeydustman]

I've not driven a Maxi (yet) so I can't really comment on how they drive. As a passenger in one a few years ago I found it quite comfortable, spacious given my size, and a quite smooth ride on the roads. Also really innovative with it's 5-speed box and hatchback. However I think the overall styling was really dull. The landcrab doors were a hindrance, but they could have been given different exterior handles, a more Mini Clubman style grill and better rear lights, it would have appealed more to the family man as I remember it as an old man's car or a cheap banger from my youth in the 80's.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

Most of the posts in this thread refer to the the Maxi not being a success, is that strictly true? They sold just under half a million of the feckers in 12 years or so, OK Renault managed 4 times that in 15 years. But if you added Marina, Dolomite and Princess sales to the Maxis they would be about the same and all of them were competing with the R16. The sins of BL as a group shouldn't reflect on individual cars.

Maxis had as good a reputation when new as any of the big four's repmobiles , any contemporary road tests would usually place them above the Hunter/ Cortina/ Victor and whatever we may think now , they were never perceived as in any way second best.

I have owned 2 Maxis and whilst I didn't really like them , that was probably because they were old and knackered by the time I got them. I commuted to London from Milton Keynes during a very snowy winter in 1981 and the K reg 1750 was ace , certainly better than my Mk4 Zodiac. I should counter this by saying I had a Renault 16 afterwards and it was 10 times the car the Maxi was. Faster, better handling, more economical etc, I often wondered if the Maxi could have become as good if BL had bothered to invest more than some black bumpers and plastic hubcaps.

I recently read a Giant Test from when the R20 first came out and the Maxi was lauded as the most solid car in the test and also the choice for the enthusiast, the third car in the test? A Passat!

[sierraman]

As I see it the choice of insisting it had 1800 doors was fatal. It also went on for far too long, bearing in mind it went out of production in 1980 or thereabouts the mk2 Cavalier came along round the same time.

 

Like nearly everything else they made as well it had zero appeal outside the UK.

[John F]

As I see it the choice of insisting it had 1800 doors was fatal. It also went on for far too long, bearing in mind it went out of production in 1980 or thereabouts the mk2 Cavalier came along round the same time.

 

Like nearly everything else they made as well it had zero appeal.

 

FTFY

[Datsuncog]

As I see it the choice of insisting it had 1800 doors was fatal.

 

Out of all the parts they could have shared from all the others in the BMC stable... it does seem almost perverse. The money saved from tooling up a doorframe and skin must surely have been negligible considering it was conceived as a mass-market car, and did nothing to enhance the appeal of what was quite a capable and forward-thinking car.

 

At least management didn't insist on using the doors from the A60, I suppose...

 

But Pininfarina's crisp styling exercises for the 1800's replacement could have been real winners, at home and further afield - the fact that BMC paid for them, didn't use them, and then Citroen were then apparently 'inspired' by the unused prototypes when styling the GS, speaks volumes...

 

[SierraMikeHotel]

I think that looks brilliant. Granted, I'm biased as a fan of 70s Citroëns, but anyone would have to agree that looks clean and futuristic (for its time) compared to the Victorian furniture they were churning out.

[John F]

Meh. Spatted rear wheels look gash IMO.

[AMC Rebel]

I wonder how those tall gearbox in engine setups favoured by BL for FWD at the time would have worked with that low bonnet line - especially the OHC E-Series?  Maybe that's one reason the styling exercises never got made?  

[AMC Rebel]

Meh. Spatted rear wheels look gash IMO.

 I used to agree but stuff like the original Honda Insight changed my mind

[SierraMikeHotel]

I wonder how those tall gearbox in engine setups favoured by BL for FWD at the time would have worked with that low bonnet line - especially the OHC E-Series? Maybe that's one reason the styling exercises never got made?

You've seen the original Allegro drawings? Now that should have been a stunner.

[AMC Rebel]

BTW I had a matchbox model of that Pinin 1800 as a kid

[AMC Rebel]

You've seen the original Allegro drawings? Now that should have been a stunner.

The Allegro is currently alive and well and living as a Mini Countryman.  The Germans designed it though so it's now trendy. 

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Other than build quality, corrosion, and the costly Hydragas suspension, the E-series was perhaps the glass jaw of the car's profitability, certainly in 1750 terms - it was so expensive to produce. How many other mass-produced cars of the 70s had a nitrided crankshaft as standard ?

Part if this was the requirement to keep the engine narrow enough to plonk it between the front wheels and hence the Hydragas cans, but that narrowness (siamesed bores, for example) also meant that the only way to go larger enough(than 1485cc) meant for a very long stroke and thus the nitrided crank, because an untreated crank didn't last long enough to see out the warranty period.

 

 

The E Series was made narrow so that BMC/BL/ARGGH! could make a small number of transverse sixes. This is BL thinking.

 

"Here's a car we could make in big numbers, so in order to fit a six cylinder version in a car we can't actually give away anyway, we'll make the four cylinder big selling version narrow, long stroke, small bore and generally rubbish".

 

The sheer blindness and lack of thought and planning within BL was just staggering. Only BLMC could make a car nobody liked (the 1800) and make a really rubbish longer RWD version that was as desirable as Herpes, and then make a 5 door hatch version that was about as sought after as the Landcrab mother lode. Those doors have seen a lot of fail.

 

I mean, I'd have any of the three if cheap enough but as a new car? Not a chance. 

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

You've seen the original Allegro drawings? Now that should have been a stunner.

 

1100 or 1300 only, a tailgate and cheap but well developed coil spring suspension. Would have been a winner even if they did fall to bits.

[sierraman]

They were having a laugh in those days. I remember reading about at Chrysler, to save money on the Imp, they removed the rubber washer round the wiper arm that stopped water getting under the boot, saved something like 0.22p. Car then pissed water in but hey they had saved money.

[Slowsilver]

I've not driven a Maxi (yet) so I can't really comment on how they drive. As a passenger in one a few years ago I found it quite comfortable, spacious given my size, and a quite smooth ride on the roads. Also really innovative with it's 5-speed box and hatchback. However I think the overall styling was really dull. The landcrab doors were a hindrance, but they could have been given different exterior handles, a more Mini Clubman style grill and better rear lights, it would have appealed more to the family man as I remember it as an old man's car or a cheap banger from my youth in the 80's.

 

Agree with this apart from the comment about the "more Mini Clubman style grille" (unless you were joking).

Not just the grille but the entire front end treatment couldn't be much more alike if they had cloned it directly.

 

Exhibit A M'Lud:

 

 

 

The Maxi had been on sale for a number of years before they did the Croydon Clubman facelift on the Mini.

Must have been one of the cheapest exterior facelifts of all time as they only changed the frontal styling and it is patently a scaled-down copy of the entire Maxi front end. The Mini Clubman even uses front sidelight/indicator units that are identical to the Maxi's.  Not that this is necessarily a bad thing as I think it actually looks quite good and gives a sort of "corporate Leyland" look to the two models.

[adw1977]

The Mini Clubman actually predates the facelifted Maxi (as shown in the above photo) by a few months.

 

The first Maxis (1969-70) had this front end:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/61090099@N04/24599122628/in/album-72157689663466945/

[Dead_E23]

Now I think about it, isn't it surprising that the Maxi was never offered with quad headlamps like the Allegro Equipe or the higher spec Princesses?   Quad headlamps were massively desirable at the time and would bestow status on any shonky heap.

 

Similarly, did they ever get electric windows?  They were impossibly luxurious things in the '70s and early '80s.  As a child, I remember attempting to wind the windows down really smoothly in my Dad's Citroen GS and pretending they were electric.  How sad is that?  Sounds like something out of the four Yorkshiremen sketch now!   

[adw1977]

Now I think about it, isn't it surprising that the Maxi was never offered with quad headlamps like the Allegro Equipe or the higher spec Princesses?   Quad headlamps were massively desirable at the time and would bestow status on any shonky heap.

 

Similarly, did they ever get electric windows?  They were impossibly luxurious things in the '70s and early '80s.  As a child, I remember attempting to wind the windows down really smoothly in my Dad's Citroen GS and pretending they were electric.  How sad is that?  Sounds like something out of the four Yorkshiremen sketch now!   

 

Quad headlamps might have helped a bit.  I agree with those who already mentioned that the decision to use the landcrab doors really scuppered the design.

 

Electric windows were never an option on the Princess, let alone the Maxi!  I've got a scan of the brochure for the Maxi 2 (1980 minor facelfit) here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/61090099@N04/albums/72157650936880599

[Dead_E23]

Such a nice interior - all the ones I went in had collapsed, threadbare driver's seats that had split along the stitching. Stained carpets and a wonky steering wheel too, usually.

[155V6]

As a car mad 6 year old in 1971,I always confused Maxis & 1800s because of the doors.The secretary at my infants school had a Maxi & she seemed ancient(probably no more than about 45 though   )so I always thought of them as a car for old people.

[406V6]

The Allegro is currently alive and well and living as a Mini Countryman.  The Germans designed it though so it's now trendy. 

Next time you see an Audi A1 look carefully. In proportions and general shape it's the spitting image of a 2-door Allegro. The detailing is different but if you squint a bit they are near enough the same.  It would be great if someone with an Allegro could park next to an A1 next time they see one and take some pics.

[Alanism]

You cant do this in a Fiesta.

 

 

The maxi actually changed the world more than some people realise.

 

Heres one going from London to Mexico in 1970.

 

 

 

I'm quite happy to defend the Maxi.  A truly great BL product (in my probably not very wise opinion).

It's worth checking out this website for more information.

http://www.puffthemagicwagon.co.uk/

[Felly Magic]

To increase structural regidity in that rally Maxi, it had a fixed rear window, and a boot, rather like that prototype/mockup shot, and that rally Maxi is still around