The new news 24 thread

[Yoss]

41 minutes ago, SiC said:

While incredibly annoying, at least the bumper did its job and saved doing more damage. I presume you didn't catch who hit it?

The car is parked in a residential road while I am at work. I assume it happened there though I didn't notice it then as I approach it from behind, get in and drive off. Mrs Yoss noticed it when coming back from a dog walk. I would certainly have noticed if I had been in the car at the time.

But yeah, as you say it could have been a lot worse. And Favorit bumpers are remarkably good, helped by not being painted of course. I have reversed mine into each other quite vigorously more than once (the drive is a bit tight for two cars) with no damage.

[Yoss]

20 minutes ago, New POD said:

Blow torch on grey bumpers usually works well. 

I have heard this before. Presumably carefully. There might be a fine line between nice black and slightly melty.

5 minutes ago, Metal Guru said:

To start a whole car fire?

Or worse.

[New POD]

Blow torch on grey bumpers usually works well. 

[Dick Cheeseburger]

6 minutes ago, New POD said:

Blow torch on grey bumpers usually works well. 

Doesn't do them any good long-term. It brings the oils to the surface for a quick fix and makes the plastic more brittle, ultimately. 

Yoss - use a bumper treatment or boiled linseed oil for now - it'll look tidier in the meantime. As for the dent, a proficient dent removal fella will sort that pretty effectively. 

[New POD]

1 hour ago, Metal Guru said:

To start a whole car fire?

Did it on a mk2 cavalier. Came up a treat. Get them to the point where you could just leave finger prints. 

No idea about long term effects.  Bumpers are quite thick, so are you affecting the structure ? 

[Dick Cheeseburger]

Fine for a one-off treatment if you don't melt everything. For a long-term keeper, brittle plastics aren't ideal if you keep repeating the hot air gun 'hack'. Yoss seems to be the type to keep hold of motors long-term and to keep them tip-top. 

[Yoss]

1 hour ago, Dick Longbridge said:

Doesn't do them any good long-term. It brings the oils to the surface for a quick fix and makes the plastic more brittle, ultimately. 

Yoss - use a bumper treatment or boiled linseed oil for now - it'll look tidier in the meantime. As for the dent, a proficient dent removal fella will sort that pretty effectively. 

Cheers. I've used many different ones, there's an awful lot of black plastic between two Favorits, and found the Auto Glym stuff works the best but it still doesn't last that long. But you're right, I really should do it more often.

[Yoss]

9 minutes ago, Dick Longbridge said:

Fine for a one-off treatment if you don't melt everything. For a long-term keeper, brittle plastics aren't ideal if you keep repeating the hot air gun 'hack'. Yoss seems to be the type to keep hold of motors long-term and to keep them tip-top. 

Especially when you keep driving them in to each other like I do.

[SiC]

2 hours ago, Yoss said:

have heard this before. Presumably carefully. There might be a fine line between nice black and slightly melty.

Didn't work on my TT. The front grille has a small melty mark on it now rather than darkened up 🫠

[egg]

2 hours ago, Yoss said:

Cheers. I've used many different ones, there's an awful lot of black plastic between two Favorits, and found the Auto Glym stuff works the best but it still doesn't last that long. But you're right, I really should do it more often.

Polytrol or Autosmart Finish are other options mebbee.

[Yoss]

It's no good, I bowed to peer pressure and had to go and do it. So from

To

And halfway in between

 

Also whilst I was out there I thought I'd do the other one too.

Used the Auto Glym bumper and trim gel. I only did the bumpers and the panel around the number plate but that took long enough and I need more gel now.

[Dick Cheeseburger]

Huge improvement! 😎

[dave j]

Looks ace on Ronal Turbos! 

[egg]

We must be down to double digits of working Favorits now?

[Yoss]

20 minutes ago, dave j said:

Looks ace on Ronal Turbos! 

Cheers, that one has to have bigger wheels as it has bigger brakes behind them but they do suit it too. 

[beko1987]

Looks very smart! Just keep it fed with trim restorer (not back to black, it just sits on the surface). Problem is all the trim products I've ever tried just run after 3 rain storms and need doing 2 months later...

Paint them with plastic paint? 

[Yoss]

5 minutes ago, egg said:

We must be down to double digits of working Favorits now?

They're not all mine! 

3 minutes ago, beko1987 said:

Looks very smart! Just keep it fed with trim restorer (not back to black, it just sits on the surface). Problem is all the trim products I've ever tried just run after 3 rain storms and need doing 2 months later...

Paint them with plastic paint? 

I'm not sure about plastic paint. Be fine if it worked but if it started peeling would look shit. I think I just have to keep topping them up. 

[stuboy]

EvRi hadn't lost my parcel..  replacement caliper... fitted before got changed from work..

[dozeydustman]

On 10/4/2023 at 10:13 AM, egg said:

what a spot from this lad!  Taxed and insured...

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cx59jDmoGZS/

Holy moly! Phase 1 305s were rare in France last time I went there, I thought they'd all died and gone to heaven over here.

[artdjones]

11 minutes ago, dozeydustman said:

Holy moly! Phase 1 305s were rare in France last time I went there, I thought they'd all died and gone to heaven over here.

Wonder if there are any 1.5 diesels left?

[EyesWeldedShut]

1 minute ago, artdjones said:

Wonder if there are any 1.5 diesels left?

1 or 2 or 10  (depends what the actual model was - I've no idea other than a 'D' in the name?) Not bad for a car that my Dad lusted after but ended up with a Talbot Horizon.
https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?q=305+peugeot

[dozeydustman]

Once I know when stepdaughter's boyfriend is available for the journey, I'll be taking him on a collection caper for a car on here he like. He passed his test in June and insurance looks favourable.

[RayMK]

Still no joy with my Tipo which FTP'd back in July.  It is still at the garage.  A new coil had no effect on the lack of sparks and earlier this week a decent, correct 2nd hand ecu was sourced at an Italian cars specialist. We fitted it but symptoms remained unchanged - no sparks.  I'll try to get over to the garage with my multimeter next week to carry out pin checks on the ecu connector in accordance with a Digiplex manual that a chap on the Fiat forum forwarded, plus a few basic continuity checks on other leads e.g. the ignition king lead.  If these checks don't show anything untoward, I won't have anything else affordable to try to replace.  The Fiat's days could be numbered.  If it comes to that, I'll see if anyone wants it as a spares car for scrap money and if that fails to attract anyone it will go to a scrappy for £150 (assuming we can tow it there) or whatever the going rate is.

[artdjones]

1 hour ago, EyesWeldedShut said:

1 or 2 or 10  (depends what the actual model was - I've no idea other than a 'D' in the name?) Not bad for a car that my Dad lusted after but ended up with a Talbot Horizon.
https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?q=305+peugeot

I think the Horizon was the first car with the XUD in.

[SiC]

13 hours ago, RayMK said:

Still no joy with my Tipo which FTP'd back in July.  It is still at the garage.  A new coil had no effect on the lack of sparks and earlier this week a decent, correct 2nd hand ecu was sourced at an Italian cars specialist. We fitted it but symptoms remained unchanged - no sparks.  I'll try to get over to the garage with my multimeter next week to carry out pin checks on the ecu connector in accordance with a Digiplex manual that a chap on the Fiat forum forwarded, plus a few basic continuity checks on other leads e.g. the ignition king lead.  If these checks don't show anything untoward, I won't have anything else affordable to try to replace.  The Fiat's days could be numbered.  If it comes to that, I'll see if anyone wants it as a spares car for scrap money and if that fails to attract anyone it will go to a scrappy for £150 (assuming we can tow it there) or whatever the going rate is.

Just had a Google and the only thread I could find was yours from the other week...

I think the problem is that the Tipo was never terribly popular here and was becoming extinct in the early 00s when the internet and forums became a thing. At which point they were getting to 10+ years old and more or less worthless. So scrapped instead of asking for help. Hence doesn't seem much info on the internet at all on them. Especially on obscure early generation Italian Marelli ignition systems.

The PDF that was sent to you looks useful, however I do note that the coil wiring is different in that document to what yours is. I.e. the PDF shows a standard three wire (pos/neg/HT) coil where as yours has four wires plus HT. So possibly the wiring is different. Also interesting that manual tells you to remove the complete engine head to get accurate timing for it to run properly - how ridiculous.

Given the sudden nature for it to fail and not restart after a shutdown, it does suggest that there is an internal electronic failure somewhere - whether module or sensor.  When you said you got a second hand ECU, was this a Digiplex module or fuel injection module?

From what I can tell from the info about, your car has the Digiplex for ignition and then a Bosch MonoJetronic for injection. Presumably the Digiplex feeds a RPM signal to the MonoJetronic so that can do it's calculations. So wondering if the Digiplex module may have failed internally but the replacement ECU was a MonoJetronic that hadn't failed?

Is the engine a FIRE unit? I.e. can you get hold of a points dizzy that will mount on it?

[egg]

13 hours ago, RayMK said:

 The Fiat's days could be numbered.  If it comes to that, I'll see if anyone wants it as a spares car for scrap money and if that fails to attract anyone it will go to a scrappy for £150 (assuming we can tow it there) or whatever the going rate is.

Is there a decent auto electrician who could have a look?

[RayMK]

1 hour ago, SiC said:

Just had a Google and the only thread I could find was yours from the other week...

I think the problem is that the Tipo was never terribly popular here and was becoming extinct in the early 00s when the internet and forums became a thing. At which point they were getting to 10+ years old and more or less worthless. So scrapped instead of asking for help. Hence doesn't seem much info on the internet at all on them. Especially on obscure early generation Italian Marelli ignition systems.

The PDF that was sent to you looks useful, however I do note that the coil wiring is different in that document to what yours is. I.e. the PDF shows a standard three wire (pos/neg/HT) coil where as yours has four wires plus HT. So possibly the wiring is different. Also interesting that manual tells you to remove the complete engine head to get accurate timing for it to run properly - how ridiculous.

Given the sudden nature for it to fail and not restart after a shutdown, it does suggest that there is an internal electronic failure somewhere - whether module or sensor.  When you said you got a second hand ECU, was this a Digiplex module or fuel injection module?

From what I can tell from the info about, your car has the Digiplex for ignition and then a Bosch MonoJetronic for injection. Presumably the Digiplex feeds a RPM signal to the MonoJetronic so that can do it's calculations. So wondering if the Digiplex module may have failed internally but the replacement ECU was a MonoJetronic that hadn't failed?

Is the engine a FIRE unit? I.e. can you get hold of a points dizzy that will mount on it?

Good points (pun not intended).  It was the Digiplex 2 model 439M which we replaced - like for like.  Yes, the other ecu controls the single point fuel injection but that has not been touched or investigated as the symptoms of the stoppage did not put any suspicions there.  Earlier versions of the 1.4 engine in the Tipo had a carburettor with the  distributor mounted on the side of the crank case,  on the front of the engine.  My engine has a blanking plate or it may even cast as a blank (not machined to accept a distributor) as the distributor is at one end of the camshaft rotating on the same axis.  Without doing a lot of research, I do not know whether there are internal differences to delete the earlier distributor drive set-up or whether the monojetronic inlet manifold differs from the carb inlet manifold.  I have not seen any references to my 1372cc unit being a FIRE series type.  The 1.4ie engine is shared by the Tempra and some Uno models, the Tempra 1.4 being virtually the same as my Tipo under the bonnet for obvious reasons (Tipo with a boot = Tempra). There are other closely related engines in other Italian marques but these generally have numerous detail differences in ignition and injection systems and use different ECUs.  I'll carry out my multimeter checks to confirm or otherwise the correct resistances for the sensors.  The one you mentioned which requires the head off to access or set-up would immediately sentence the car to being moved to a new owner or scrapped. I am unable and unwilling to take on that task or pay someone to do it.  Fortunately, that particular sensor is not a common failure and tends only to shake out of adjustment, ruining performance but not stopping the engine from running.  My engine has always performed absolutely fine. 

[RayMK]

30 minutes ago, egg said:

Is there a decent auto electrician who could have a look?

 We've spoken to a couple on the 'phone.  They were not keen to take it further because, although there is a rudimentary diagnostic connector on the loom under the bonnet, no-one (including long established Fiat dealers) has the original Fiat diagnostic device or anything compatible with it.  It would be a project to get anything to read it.  There are a couple of UK companies who could repair or clone the Digiplex ECU if that was found to be the problem.  Prices start at £200 .... much more if it proves a difficult one.  The car is worth £600.  I'm not an eBay optimist who would try for £2K.  My preferred budget is <£400 to fix the Tipo.  I'll update with my findings after waving my multimeter leads about next week 😁. 

[SiC]

36 minutes ago, RayMK said:

Good points (pun not intended).  It was the Digiplex 2 model 439M which we replaced - like for like.  Yes, the other ecu controls the single point fuel injection but that has not been touched or investigated as the symptoms of the stoppage did not put any suspicions there.  Earlier versions of the 1.4 engine in the Tipo had a carburettor with the  distributor mounted on the side of the crank case,  on the front of the engine.  My engine has a blanking plate or it may even cast as a blank (not machined to accept a distributor) as the distributor is at one end of the camshaft rotating on the same axis.  Without doing a lot of research, I do not know whether there are internal differences to delete the earlier distributor drive set-up or whether the monojetronic inlet manifold differs from the carb inlet manifold.  I have not seen any references to my 1372cc unit being a FIRE series type.  The 1.4ie engine is shared by the Tempra and some Uno models, the Tempra 1.4 being virtually the same as my Tipo under the bonnet for obvious reasons (Tipo with a boot = Tempra). There are other closely related engines in other Italian marques but these generally have numerous detail differences in ignition and injection systems and use different ECUs.  I'll carry out my multimeter checks to confirm or otherwise the correct resistances for the sensors.  The one you mentioned which requires the head off to access or set-up would immediately sentence the car to being moved to a new owner or scrapped. I am unable and unwilling to take on that task or pay someone to do it.  Fortunately, that particular sensor is not a common failure and tends only to shake out of adjustment, ruining performance but not stopping the engine from running.  My engine has always performed absolutely fine. 

I've had a quick Google around. I think that PDF referred to the original Digiplex. The Digiplex 2 only has one sensor from what I can see (crank presumably).

Found this info on a Russian site (Google translated):

https://www-drive2-ru.translate.goog/l/3078242/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Obviously can't guarantee it'll be correct but the title and description seem to check out okay.

Things of interest:

There is a feed from the starter relay to the control module. Possibly this signals to start the module up? I.e. if someone leaves the ignition on, it stays off to save burning it out? I'd check this wire hasn't broken. This would be the first thing I'd check as could definitely give the symptoms of a sudden non start.

Tacho is connected to the coil. Possible the tacho has failed, shorting this and causing it to not send a spark? I'd probably disconnect this for now if possible.

The round circle near the battery is presumably the ignition switch? It looks like the 12v goes to the coil first. Off the coil goes to the Digiplex 2 module. Make sure 12v is going through here.

Wire marked 9 should be the ignition drive signal. This will tell you if the Digiplex 2 is even trying to drive the ignition coil. Multimeter on voltage mode should hopefully show a fluctuating voltage when cranking. Ideally connect a oscilloscope to check. 

Injection control is separate to the ignition. So it does reduce the possibilities of what can be wrong to essentially around this system. With only one input sensor (crank), it should work if that's coming in and that starter signal has triggered it.

[egg]

2 minutes ago, RayMK said:

They were not keen to take it further because, although there is a rudimentary diagnostic connector on the loom under the bonnet, no-one (including long established Fiat dealers) has the original Fiat diagnostic device or anything compatible with it.

OK so no kind of generic OBD1 tester like my Gunson 4127 would work?

I've just checked the instructions- and although it covers loads of makes, seems not fiat