Zel's Motoring Adventures...Volvo, Renault, Rover, Trabant, Invacar & A Sinclair C5 - Updated 13/11.

[Zelandeth]

On 3/25/2023 at 1:03 PM, PhilA said:

You're on the cusp of Renix and regular OBD2 style engine management. Check again, Renix uses a Lambda sensor for closed loop operation. Mine was a mile and a half down the exhaust pipe.

Interesting, I'll need to take a closer look.  I'd never even considered the possibility of there being any monitoring of the exhaust gases on a UK car of this age.  If that's an original lambda sensor I imagine it's pretty well stuffed by now.  Will need to see if I can track down a datasheet to allow me to check the temperature sensors properly too.  I'm still not convinced for instance that the temperature gauge should sit as high as it does, though actually measuring the temperature shows the coolant temperature to be entirely reasonable.  Though a couple of people have said they just do that...

Really do look forward to getting to a point where I can take this car on a proper road trip up to Scotland or something like that.  There's a definite feeling of "Bring me that horizon" whenever you get this car on the motorway.

[PhilA]

33 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Interesting, I'll need to take a closer look.  I'd never even considered the possibility of there being any monitoring of the exhaust gases on a UK car of this age.  If that's an original lambda sensor I imagine it's pretty well stuffed by now.  Will need to see if I can track down a datasheet to allow me to check the temperature sensors properly too.  I'm still not convinced for instance that the temperature gauge should sit as high as it does, though actually measuring the temperature shows the coolant temperature to be entirely reasonable. 

On mine, the gauge would sit at just under 2/3 of max for normal, maximum with the radiator fan on was a needle's width under the red. This is normal. Into the red is bad, and should also trigger the overheat warning light. In Citroen land that would be a STOP.

The engine (coolant, intake air) sensors are a fairly standard curve. The coolant temperature sensor makes a significant difference to the running of the engine, being the main enrichment adjustment factor. I forget which ones I used in the end but I think they're the same as GM was using at the time. The throttle position pot is fairly critical and gets worn out at the closed-throttle end of the track. Check too that the idle adjust pintle actually works.

 

"They just do that", now, with old sensors yes. New, no. They were buttery smooth. I found recapping the ECU helped too, despite being conformal coated the caps were out of spec on a few rails and allowing noise ingress, which old TTL logic don't care for much. The programming assumes a lot, and that assumption can be foiled by the baselines being incorrect.

 

Phil

[Zelandeth]

On 3/29/2023 at 12:02 AM, PhilA said:

On mine, the gauge would sit at just under 2/3 of max for normal, maximum with the radiator fan on was a needle's width under the red. This is normal. Into the red is bad, and should also trigger the overheat warning light. In Citroen land that would be a STOP.

The engine (coolant, intake air) sensors are a fairly standard curve. The coolant temperature sensor makes a significant difference to the running of the engine, being the main enrichment adjustment factor. I forget which ones I used in the end but I think they're the same as GM was using at the time. The throttle position pot is fairly critical and gets worn out at the closed-throttle end of the track. Check too that the idle adjust pintle actually works.

 

"They just do that", now, with old sensors yes. New, no. They were buttery smooth. I found recapping the ECU helped too, despite being conformal coated the caps were out of spec on a few rails and allowing noise ingress, which old TTL logic don't care for much. The programming assumes a lot, and that assumption can be foiled by the baselines being incorrect.

 

Phil

This is where my gauge sits in normal operation.

The fan cuts in right on the last white mark.  I can't remember what the number was, but I confirmed the coolant temperature by measurement was reasonable.  It just looks highly unnerving!

On the coolant front though a much awaited package arrived for it today.

Surprisingly recent production actually.  I'd expected this to have been sitting on a shelf somewhere for a long while, but apparently not.

Will be nice for peace of mind to have this in place by the summer.

[PhilA]

Because French. That's where mine would sit for "normal" yes.

[Zelandeth]

On 4/6/2023 at 3:10 AM, PhilA said:

Because French. That's where mine would sit for "normal" yes.

Useful to know.  I guess eventually I'll get used to it.  Just having so little of a buffer of "Hmm, that doesn't look right" between "Normal" and "OMG Doom" really does seem less than ideal.

Currently the overheat warning light is on the list of things which doesn't work (the panel I'm pretty sure has the standard edge connector issues as it's a lottery as to how many of the standard warning lights actually work every time you turn the ignition on), so that doesn't help!

[PhilA]

It's a perceptive issue. My gauge was linear; that one probably is too- most are logarithmic. The middle of the gauge is much closer to the red in reality than it looks on cars that have the gauge sit in the middle.

Also expect the temperature to fluctuate a lot between the upper two marks, particularly in traffic, mine did. Again, normal. Mine would get up to the top white mark, cut in the fan, the temperature would drop to the mark below, fan would shut off. Repeat.

Putting the aircon on would keep it on the lower mark, because the fan would run for that.

Checking the actual temperature showed that the lower line was 90°, where the thermostat opened, top line was about 100°, the red about 105°. 

[Zelandeth]

Had a couple of hours today where I was actually feeling vaguely human and the weather was looking decent.  So I said screw it to the stuff around the house that needed doing and instead pulled TPA out of winter hibernation.

Started first try, didn't even smoke.  Think she was out briefly once in February, but hasn't had a decent run since December.  It was February when I fitted the new voltage regulator, and I've never done a test run since then.

Charging system looks to be behaving so much better now.  Jumps up to 13-14V pretty much as soon as you're above 1500rpm or thereabouts, and stays there rock steady.  To get really meaningful charging before I basically had to be going fast enough to have the CVT maxed out.  Now if I'm moving I have good system voltage.  

Hard to say as I wasn't out for a massively long run and it's been a while since I had the car out, but it honestly felt like she was pulling better at high revs, just felt as though she was holding 60 easier than usual.  I guess it's possible that the generator was bleeding off some power at the top end (I was seeing nearly 16V on the voltmeter at that sort of speed), which isn't now happening as it's being properly regulated.

Only thing I noted that wasn't too happy after the hibernation was the handbrake felt really gummy.  It's definitely at the front end of things rather than rear of the cantilever mechanism under the floor.  I can't quite tell if it's the cable itself that's sticking or the lever itself.  I've lubed both up and it seems better, hoping it will free off fully with a bit more use.  While I had the grease out I also gave the door runners a thorough greasing...I hadn't realised how bad it had got.  First time I opened it afterwards I just about threw the door off the front of the car!  You can slide it with one finger now.  I really do need to properly sort the rollers on the door at some point...that's not massively high on the priority list though to be honest.  Priority one right now of course is getting the lovely newly repaired hub fitted.

We've got a guest staying for the new couple of weeks though, so not expecting to get a chance to do much of anything for a while.  I know they're going to want to see TPA though, so seemed all the more reason to pull her out of hibernation.

I always forget how much this little car makes me smile.  I'd had a pretty crap morning and in the last hour before I wandered into the garage was quite shaken up by a run in with a very aggressive driver in a BMW threatening me.  Felt a lot better after getting TPA out for a run on a nice sunny afternoon when the roads were actually pretty quiet.

I had the van out for an hour or so a couple of days back, which I think was the first time she's been more than a mile from base this year.  Do want to give her a really good run though - takes quite a while to get that old lump fully up to temperature!  Need to consult my records but I'm pretty sure she's due a service too.

[Zelandeth]

How to make a Yaris look huge: Park an Invacar next to it.

[Zelandeth]

The Renault very nearly had quite an exciting failure a couple of days ago.

That's the gear selector linkage.  Front of the car is to the right, and the bungee cord was my "limp onto the driveway" fix to keep it off the ground.

A couple of minutes before I'd been in full juggernaut mode going down the A5.  However it decided to actually fall off as I selected first having parked up briefly here.

So it seems she's looking out for me!

If that had let go while I was driving it would have most likely attempted to launch the centre console through the sunroof.

The whole rubber bush has just disintegrated.  I don't imagine the others involved are far behind given the gear change has never exactly been great (even by 80s Renault standards).

Once I track down (or make) a replacement I will be making a minor modification.  I'll be drilling a small hole in the linkage the rod connects to and the rod itself and tethering the two together with a bit of lock wire.  That way if the bush fails again in future it can't drop far enough to come into contact with the road.

Next step is to do some digging around and seeing if I can find a bush set - I'm *hoping* that it's a common part that Renault used across a bunch of different models, rather then just this specific model with this specific engine (like the drop links...) simply Because French.  Obviously this means she's off the road until I have this properly resolved.  Currently it's held together by cable ties and curses to allow the car to be moved around at least.  A bodge which would have been far easier if the car had about an inch of extra ground clearance or was about an inch and a half narrower.  Or if my arms were about that much longer.  Think when I come to actually change this lot I'll need to get it on the ramps.

Which left me needing to abruptly bring the van fully back out of the winter lay up as I needed to provide transport for a trip out for our guest which took us about an hour away.  I'm not going to cram someone in the back seats of the Caddy for a run that long (especially as both of my passengers are quite tall!), so it was up.  Main job that was needed was the first wash of the year...It had turned rather green over the winter!

Three hours later it looked slightly more presentable.  I'm not going to go so far as to say clean, but a good deal cleanER.

I always forget when it's been a while precisely how much of a mission cleaning that thing is.

While not exactly conventional transportation, the task at hand was dispatched absolutely fine and a good day was had by all at the British Motor Museum.  Which I keep forgetting is so near to us here.

Definitely a sign I'm getting older I think.  In days gone by it would have been the sportier things which really would have drawn my attention, but I reckon if I could have taken any one car home yesterday, I'd definitely have had to think long and hard about passing up this Alvis.

Not all that many years ago that's a car I would have walked straight past without a second glance.

Wouldn't have said no to this either.

I didn't take many photos given I was kind of struggling to keep up with folks as it was.  I'll have to have a wander back over there one day by myself when I've a bit more time and my stamina is doing a bit better.

Later in the day I also took the van out to the supermarket, because I've paid my road tax just the same as everyone else, and because I can.

I have a long history of forgetting that Drive It Day is actually a thing, but this year actually remembered so made a point as the weather was lovely to pull TPA out and go for a wander around.  Can't actually remember the last time I went out without a destination in mind.

Something very modern looking and something very much not...

Then about as close to a scenic photo as you can get in Milton Keynes I reckon.

I was out for about an hour and a half and covered about 30 miles.  Sadly the only car of any note I spotted at all the whole time was a sole white MGB - which I spotted about 1/2 a second too late to wave the the driver as I was concentrating on dodging a couple of meteor craters masquerading as potholes at the time.

Did give me the opportunity to actually get out on the main road though, and I can definitely report that she's cruising more easily than she used to at around 60.  So looks like the generator being properly regulated rather than just trying to pump more and more power into the battery actually does make a difference.  Nothing else has been touched mechanically so that should be the only variable to change.  To touch the coil feels to be running cooler as well, though that's hard to say for certain - though with the whole vehicle system sitting at ~16V when running at speed beforehand it would make sense for electrical things to be running cooler.

[Zelandeth]

Been pondering the fleet a bit.  As you do.

[] Caddy.  Eventually it will probably be moved on.  However replaced with something very similar.  Fact of the matter is that having something van shaped on fleet is really sodding useful, and I can't see that changing.  However between the ever deteriorating state of the roads around here and my spine not getting any better, the extremely firm ride is really making me come up with reasons not to drive it.  Which is a shame as otherwise it's really not a bad drive.

Unless I were to stumble over an affordable early XJ Cherokee (yeah, like that's going to happen in 2023), it will likely end up with a Berlingo or Picasso taking the place on fleet.  Not urgently looking, but it will probably happen at some point.

[] Invacar.  Obviously not going anywhere.  TPA is a permanent fleet member.

[] Renault.  As above.  I gave up looking for this car 10+ years ago, and it's not as though I'm going to find another one.  It makes zero sense from a logical perspective, and I'm sure I'll wind up spending several times what it's actually worth getting it fully sorted out to the condition I want to.

[] Camper.  I'm quite aware of the fact that it's barely been driven over this last year.  Biggest headache is that it's not big enough for us to go away in as a family.  I'd read about some changes being considered to driving licence rules down the road which might open up 7.5t vehicles one day.  Which would open up a lot of avenues for us which would actually be practical for four adults plus two large dogs going on tour.

Going away myself it's like having your own personal pretty luxurious hotel room, or pretty decent for two.  However between health issues and just a lack of time that's just not been happening this year, and can't really see that changing in the foreseeable future.  I do wonder if it's time to let someone else enjoy it.  Just being objective about it, it's costing me money every month to tax and insure and just isn't getting used.  I'd have been cheaper just hiring a van for the time I've used it over the last two years (even keeping in mind that they've been odd years).  I used to use it more day to day, but the council increasingly sticking 2.5t or height barriers on the car parks around here has been making it bloody awkward.

Obviously something I'd need to talk over with the family as well as I don't consider this to be just mine, but the lack of it being used as intended is gnawing at me.  Especially as I do keep seeing things I'd quite like lately - which honestly would probably actually make more sense.

I've no idea what it's actually worth to be honest, and the idea of trying to sell it on the open market fills me with complete dread so simply won't, though if someone on here is genuinely interested I'm more open to the idea of moving it on than I was this time last year.

[High Jetter]

Shift the camper, then re-evaluate?

[LightBulbFun]

7 minutes ago, High Jetter said:

Shift the Caddy, then Buy Rover P4

FTFY

[Zelandeth]

22 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

FTFY

The Caddy or something similar has to stay.  Aside from needing a modern vehicle on a normal insurance policy for the classic one everything else is on to be valid.  I also need something relatively modern I can pile miles on if needed (the Caddy had well over 10K put on it over the last year), and can also hand over to other family members who are absolutely not car people without worry for them to carry out business trips to Telford (~2 hours each way in good traffic) and beyond.  Let's not forget that we need something suitable for carrying two large dogs around too.

Guess probably a good starting point would be to get an actual summary of the current state of play with the van put together and see if there is any interest out there, as if there's not it's a bit of a non starter really.

[Daviemck2006]

If comfort and dog carrying ability is a priority for you Zel, then I would suggest a c5 estate. Having owned a mk1 hdi sx then a mk2 hdi vtr I found the mk1 the comfier and nicer car. It would tick every box the caddy does, and probably more.

[Dobloseven]

No disrespect to the Caddy, but it's the front bit of a Seat Ibiza with a van body stuck on the back. Something like a Berlingo, Kangoo, Doblo or indeed a modern Caddy is a properly integrated vehicle with the benefit of sliding rear doors. Really, in the real world, they're the only car anyone actually needs,rather than wants, desires etc. Probably a bit off budget, but one of my sons has recently bought a 68 reg LWB 7 seat Vauxhall Combo, so a big Berlingo basically. It's massive! Mrs Doblo wants one. Told her it won't pull our caravan. Not sure if she's convinced or not. 

[Zelandeth]

5 hours ago, Dobloseven said:

No disrespect to the Caddy, but it's the front bit of a Seat Ibiza with a van body stuck on the back. Something like a Berlingo, Kangoo, Doblo or indeed a modern Caddy is a properly integrated vehicle with the benefit of sliding rear doors. Really, in the real world, they're the only car anyone actually needs,rather than wants, desires etc. Probably a bit off budget, but one of my sons has recently bought a 68 reg LWB 7 seat Vauxhall Combo, so a big Berlingo basically. It's massive! Mrs Doblo wants one. Told her it won't pull our caravan. Not sure if she's convinced or not. 

Aye, the Caddy was always going to have limitations.  It was only ever really intended to be a stop gap vehicle originally, and I'm surprised it has stuck around so long.  Aside from the ride being so harsh it drives far, far better than it has any right to.  I'm still somewhat baffled by it's ability to make hundreds of miles at a time vanish on the motorway.  It really has proven to be a supremely low stress companion.

A modern Caddy is out for a couple of reasons.  First up, based on the way the company treats it's customers I want nothing to do with them.  Secondly I have plenty of experience with modern VWs via a housemate's company cars, and I have issues with the fact that the Industry Standard Human Being they model their seats after and me simply are not the same shape.  I basically find it impossible to get anything vaguely resembling comfortable in anything they've made this side of around 2005.  Plus see also, suspension made of girders.

A Berlingo is the front runner really as it ticks all the boxes.

13 hours ago, Daviemck2006 said:

If comfort and dog carrying ability is a priority for you Zel, then I would suggest a c5 estate. Having owned a mk1 hdi sx then a mk2 hdi vtr I found the mk1 the comfier and nicer car. It would tick every box the caddy does, and probably more.

I'd quite like a C5.  Issue really is that they're a very complex car any way you look at it, and even the latest ones are well into the danger zone of being quite an old, very complex car.  I really don't want the daily to be something which ends up with a giant mission on eBay to find a random part when something breaks.  Especially given PSA's rather awful history of legacy parts supply.

No Berlingos aren't getting any newer either, but at least they're comparatively basic vehicles that I've at least half a chance of being able to chuck at my local garage if I need something done and don't have the time.  I know for a fact that they'd be extremely reluctant to touch something like a C5.  Plus there are enough of them still out there that even where PSA have abandoned things, there shouldn't be a huge issue finding third party spares if needed.

One of the very important things in this is that it needs to be something that I can chuck the keys to someone who's not a motoring enthusiast for days at a time without worrying that it's going to do something strange.

[Zelandeth]

Literally have bags mostly packed for heading abroad at Oh God o'clock on Monday morning. 

So why the fluffing hell am I setting out on a collection mission at 8am tomorrow morning?

Oh yeah... because I'm crazy.  That's right.  Nearly forgot.

[High Jetter]

Sunday buffer, tho?

[Zelandeth]

3 minutes ago, High Jetter said:

Sunday buffer, tho?

Sunday is basically going to be "frantic scramble to figure out what we've forgotten."

These are usually trips we've planned months in advance, not a week and a bit!

[High Jetter]

Chodspeed!

[LightBulbFun]

3 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

Literally have bags mostly packed for heading abroad at Oh God o'clock on Monday morning. 

So why the fluffing hell am I setting out on a collection mission at 8am tomorrow morning?

Oh yeah... because I'm crazy.  That's right.  Nearly forgot.

Ooooh I am looking forward to this one! the collection caper and subsequent fettling and daily-using of it over time  

lets hope its not as hot running as the intel processors of the same name sake if its what I think it is!

[AnnoyingPentium]

2 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

lets hope its not as hot running as the intel processors of the same name sake if its what I think it is!

*The earlier version of said processor has liked this post*

[High Jetter]

Ah, Pug then?

[Zelandeth]

And we're off.

Plan to charge phone en route courtesy of VW having chosen to only fit USB-C outlets in this bloody thing.  Just why?!?

Have forgotten my windscreen mount for my phone too.  Oops.

[Zelandeth]

Sadly didn't have a chance to update en route, as the garage we initially stopped at was really busy, and then the weather was utterly horrible the whole rest of the way so we were kind of focused on "just get the heck home."

Traditional petrol station shot...yeah, I know most of you saw this coming.

Then about two and a half hours later, home.

Yes I did to back and turn the lights off.

Was an absolute pleasure to meet and do business with you, @SiC - and I'm glad to be able to keep this car on the forum.

The weather was absolutely horrendous pretty much the whole way home, heavy rain with significant amounts of standing water everywhere.  Yeah...ideal conditions for an old British car's first drive!

Didn't miss a beat though, which really is the best you can ask for.

Only real complaint I had was that the windscreen demister is pretty much useless.

It was just about managing to keep up as long as we were moving, but as soon as we stopped immediately fogged up.  Not expecting miracles from a heater of this era, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the cable may not actually be attached at one end.

The wiper blades are also slightly too long so catch on the upper windscreen surround and lift themselves off the screen which is kind of irritating on a motorway when the air around you is about 90% water.

Overall though, performed admirably I think!

[LightBulbFun]

3 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Sadly didn't have a chance to update en route, as the garage we initially stopped at was really busy, and then the weather was utterly horrible the whole rest of the way so we were kind of focused on "just get the heck home."

Traditional petrol station shot...yeah, I know most of you saw this coming.

Then about two and a half hours later, home.

Yes I did to back and turn the lights off.

Was an absolute pleasure to meet and do business with you, @SiC - and I'm glad to be able to keep this car on the forum.

The weather was absolutely horrendous pretty much the whole way home, heavy rain with significant amounts of standing water everywhere.  Yeah...ideal conditions for an old British car's first drive!

Didn't miss a beat though, which really is the best you can ask for.

Only real complaint I had was that the windscreen demister is pretty much useless.

It was just about managing to keep up as long as we were moving, but as soon as we stopped immediately fogged up.  Not expecting miracles from a heater of this era, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the cable may not actually be attached at one end.

The wiper blades are also slightly too long so catch on the upper windscreen surround and lift themselves off the screen which is kind of irritating on a motorway when the air around you is about 90% water.

Overall though, performed admirably I think!

fucking awesome! I really pleased to see you managed to nab this one!  really am looking forward to seeing more of it! and hopefully nabbing a go in it at that the FoD! I have always been really curious to what something properly old is like to pilot  

and really glad to see it made it home without a hitch despite the weather, pretty much trial by fire for an old British car as you say! 

I think it will do very well with you, and I think you should do well with it! its pretty self evident that you have entered the "wafty barge" phase of your Automotive life  

 

I am curious to know what your first impressions are?  

[High Jetter]

Did having the quaterlights open not help with the fogging up?

[Zelandeth]

6 minutes ago, High Jetter said:

Did having the quaterlights open not help with the fogging up?

Yes - so long as we were moving anyway was allowing us to just about keep up.  As soon as we stopped though, nope!

Though in fairness, I was just out taking Abby to an appointment and the demister in the Caddy was struggling with how humid it is here right now, so I'm willing to cut it some slack!

[LightBulbFun]

as a side note, is it me or does it look like its got the Grill off an AEC something or other? maybe its a bit squished, but its even got the Triangle for it! 

[PhilA]

49 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

I have always been really curious to what something properly old is like to pilot  

You do not drive. You proceed.

 

I'll be honest, the best thing I did for the heat/demist on mine was ditch the old blower motor (900 RPM, 18 amp) and replace it with a newer permanent magnet one (1600 rpm, 12 amp) which made a significant difference to the effectiveness of the demist. Squirrel cage can handle it, being metal.

Phil