Project Honda Jizz GD - 122k+ miles, exhaust again

[Eddie Honda]

Calling all AS MOT testers and real mechanics! Sorry it's not proper Autoshite, but just Autoshit.

 

Just took the 2005 Honda Jazz in for it's annual safety inspection - NCT - because Ireland.

 

The tester has failed it on front suspension top mounts, both sides:

 

05KE16448_NCT_2016_04_25_001 by E Honda, on Flickr

 

However, came home and in doing a quick Google to see if it was a common problem, I stumbled across the NZ equivalent of "Matters of Testing" and found this:

 

WOF NEWS - 2010-12 - Issue 15 - Honda Jazz GD Front Suspension by E Honda, on Flickr

 

What's the opinion on this? I will go out and check them myself, but I've a feeling that the items have be incorrectly tested and I need to go through the rigmarole of an appeal.

[Bren]

Cut beer mats to shape. Slide in and take it back.

[Sigmund Fraud]

Perhaps an informal chat with the tester would be easier than a formal appeal ? Or is that not possible ?

[Eddie Honda]

I'll wander back down and see if I can speak to the head honcho, although after going online, I supposed to do this before leaving the test centre. Failing a "Brian Clough" chat with them, I'm likely to be sent packing with a complaint form and have to post that in. Wait a couple of weeks for the feckers to reply and have to jump through another couple of hoops, probably have to part with money and then subject to that test, eventually get it back.

 

I've been out and had a butchers at the nearside, it's got bugger-all play on the floor, but obviously when you jack it up, it drops down and unseats itself and you can move it a wee bit then.

 

What else has this floaty/pivoty/coney arrangement? Ford Ka? Corsa D?

[Dave_Q]

Point the first: What the tits kind of design is that? What happens to the front suspension if the driver takes a humpback bridge slightly too hot?

 

Point the second: Yes, if the bushes are good with the car on the ground it's not a fail in my uneducated opinion. Best of luck taking on "Da Gubbermint" and getting it sorted, let us know what happens.

[rainagain]

The Megane I got for my OH had problems with the steering lock not properly engaging, a common fault. I just physically disabled it but left it electrically connected so it wouldn't bring up any fault codes. I printed outsome info from the net showing that they could only fail a steering lock it if partially failed to lock, if it was removed it should be an advisory. the tester read through the print outs, had a think and agreed with me so I got a pass.

 

I went from:

• Reason(s) for failure
  
   

  Steering lock fails to engage (2.1.4b)

   

To:

 

• Advisory notice item(s)
  
   

  Vehicles steering lock has been removed, vehicle immobilized by transponder in key

[Junkman]

Buy an older car.

 

Thread can be closed now.

[billyboy406v6]

Buy an older car.

 

Thread can be closed now.

Like a Merc ?

[Tamworthbay]

Like a Merc ?

yup, it will rust itself to death before suspension becomes a reason for an mot fail.

[Eddie Honda]

Buy an older car.

 

Thread can be closed now.

Hold the front page.

 

Went back down and asked to speak to the centre manager. Spoke to him and outlined the problem - it's meant to do that. He said he'd have to make a call and I may have to wait a bit for a lift space as it was a lot busier than it was this morning (4 ATLs - Automated Test Lane). He put it on the lift at the end of a ATL and had a look. He then briefly chatted to the original tester (both these guys are in their 50s). Then a third tester takes over, has a quick wiggle and lowers the lift. He drives it back round to the start of the ATL so he can redo the shoogly plate suspension test, he then parks it up and shortly after presents me with the keys and cert.

 

05KE16448_NCT_2016_04_25_002 by E Honda, on Flickr

 

05KE16448_NCT_2016_04_25_003 by E Honda, on Flickr

 

So apart from wasting a further couple of hours this afternoon and an additional 20 mile round trip to the test centre, all is well.

 

Does make you think of the poor sods that spend 150 yoyos on parts (and probably the same again on labour) getting an unnecessary job done. 

 

TL;DR - We had a chat about the decision, then we decided I was right.

[SiC]

I don't know about Ireland, but in the UK the Jazz is a pretty common car. Surely they must have seen this before??

[Eddie Honda]

I'm sure he has, but was probably caught napping. He is human after all. I wasn't napping, as I had to work nightshift last night and only managed to grab 1½ hours this morning.

 

 

Right at the end @ 25:44: they all do that sir... https://youtu.be/Nsv_eb5cBlo?t=25m44s

[Junkman]

Like a Merc ?

 

Nothing wrong with old Mercurys.

[Bren]

I know of SD1's that have failed the MOT when the rear springs have come unseated when the rear suspension is left hanging freely - it's a quirk of the car.

[Eddie Honda]

I don't know about Ireland, but in the UK the Jazz is a pretty common car. Surely they must have seen this before??

Well given the salty price of them, not that many. Probably find more JDM Honda Fits to be honest.

 

I had that car down there before getting a test only 8 months ago (17/08/2015), 6½ weeks after I imported it. Same centre, different tester. It flew through then and it also passed a MOT just before I bought it (17/06/2015). It's not like it's been short of tests as its had 3 tests in 10 months.

[Jim Bell]

Insert 1960s joke about the Irish here.

[hauserplenty]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eJSKU3VGlGU

[oldford]

On the previous system where we were given vehicle specific information, for a Ford KA, it stated that the permissable lift in the front struts was 10mm vertical and 6mm lateral.

[Eddie Honda]

Well the not-too-old-not-too-expensive-boring-car-that's-a-bit-too-funny-looking-and-has-giffer-connotations, has breezed through its NCT for this year because Honda.

 

This morning I screwed the loose bumper corners on the front nearside and rear offside back in. I checked the lights/horn. I checked the washer bottle and checked the oil level. I hoovered and emptied the car out. I drove down to the test centre. I handed over bits of paper and keys. I looked through the glass as it passed down the far lane. I got given my pass cert and left.

 

 

In the last twelve months I've changed the pads all round, front discs, put a set of half-worn Michelins taken from the other Jazz (still awaiting reapers) on, filled a small exhaust weld baw-hair crack with putty, had the aircon re-gassed and done a service or two. It's done about 17k miles since its last test.

 

With no retesting to do, I've the rest of the afternoon and the evening off. Mrs Honda will just have to wait on me hand and foot.

 

Maybe I'll take a look at the Pug.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have just looked outside the back and come to the conclusion that there are beers in the fridge to be had instead.

[Eddie Honda]

On Thursday (a so called "day off" although it never is) I received a moby call in the afternoon from Mrs Honda because the exhaust had "fallen off" the Jizz and she was 3 or 4 miles away.
 
Not remembering the breakdown cover status¹ of this thing, I just said I'd be down in twenty minutes with some tools and wire. Found the garden wire and some other bits and bobs, chucked them in the top box and whizzed down on the bike.
 
Before reaching the car, I noticed that there were three speed humps prior to the resting spot. It turned out she might* have been caught out by the first one/or going too fucking fast over it. Not really the problem, more the thing that finally finished it off. The back box was hanging down where it had split at the joint between it and the middle as they always do eventually.
 
Wired it up with cheap garden wire and got her to turn round and head back home.
 
Having got the car home, I proceeded to remove the wire and silencer. As suspected, a genuine Honda item and probably the original - 106k / 12½ years old. Not a bad innings. Rather than just ignoring the issue and sending Mrs H to the garage, I came up with cunning plan No 1 use the one from the crashed/spares car that I haven't rebuilt yet. Given it was about 5 o'clock, this plan seemed a good idea at the time. Except it wasn't. Undoing the two spring loaded bolts on the joint was a ball-ache. The lower one I gentle and patiently worked backwards and forwards and it came out after some considerable time, by which it was now dark. Well I don't need to see it, so kept working by Braille. Trouble was when attention was paid to the second of the two, I had seen the clock and within a short time of working it backwards and forwards a lot less than the first one, sheared it off. Bollocks, but not a deal breaker as it was no longer holding it together.
 
Could I get the joint apart? Nope, so back to the toolbox for a rubber mallet. After a bit of bashing, I freed the silencer...but not the joint. Brilliant*, I now have two broken silencers. Bollocks.
 

a pair of knackered back boxes
 
The car was needed the next day for the school run (6 miles round trip) and so discussions were had on whether it was safe to drive. No problem, just be off the throttle when you pass the guards...
 
So I then spent some time browsing the net to get a ballpark price in my head and I'm almost ready to farm the job out to a local fast-fit². Except what is nagging at the back of my mind was a friend of mine I was speaking to last week telling me he's had 3 in the last five years (and me jinxing myself by bragging about having never done one and that mine was still on the same one when I bought it 2½ years ago as was the first car).
 
Friday morning comes round and I've been trusted with ringing for prices. It either boils down to getting a fast-fit to do it (ugh), or drive the car around for a week with no back box and get one myself, preferably a pricey Honda one because longevity. I make no calls.
 
Instead I get under the car to remove the two bolts keeping the flange on. I break another bolt, but which fortunately still has enough thread to grip from the protruding end. I go back to the shed for some FIRE and things get much easier. Why didn't I do this the first time? Oh yes, I was lying on my back and couldn't be arsed getting up for the umpteenth time to go back to the shed. I'm getting old.
 

Two out of four is sufficient.
 
Whilst down there, I see a job needing doing for the next NCT.
 

uh-oh
 

Why the fuck is the last four inches of brake pipe unsleeved?
 
Noticing the unsleeved brake pipe end, rusty pipe and wondering how Peugeot manage not to take off any sleeving on their pipes, I dream of getting rust dust in my face at a later date.
 
So why am I making the exhaust fitter's life easier by removing the flange? Is it because I don't want the lame excuses to sell me a mid-section at the same time? No. It's because during all the morning's procrastinations, I come up with:
 

a third way!
 
Yup, with my irrational fear of garages, and having not phoned anywhere at all, I decide that I'm going to put the flange and the back box together. Except where is my gasbottle and welder? I can't see it, but it's big enough not to miss.
 
Taking the it'll-turn-up-when-you're-not-looking-for-it approach, I get the bits back on under the car and mark them for correct orientation with a marker pen. I then dig out an exhaust pipe expander, the plan being a lame attempt to hold the two bits together whilst tacking. It works.
 
I find it eventually at the very back of the shed buried under other shit. Always the way. Then I have to precariously balance boxes because I've nowhere else to put them. Avoid box-slides when something loses balance and comes crashing down and lift the bastard heavy box out of it's hiding place. As there isn't room to swing a cat in the man-cave, I have to wait for a shower to pass and get out my workmate.
 

Yes, I've put the bottle away at that point and the Cebora 130 turbo has a eurotorch conversion
 
Wire feed is good, surprising as it's been sitting for a wee while, but in my laziness I'm not getting an arc despite having a good earth of sorts. Eventually after dozens of false starts and trim backs of the wire I get some sizzling bacon action. To be honest, I thought I'd end up spending the afternoon chasing burnt through holes, but it went surprising well for rusty shit.
 

not too pigeon pooey
 

that'll just have to do
 
It's only got to last for a week or two. After that victory, there was the slight setback of having to wait until Saturday morning for a gasket. Being St. Patrick's day they were only open until 1pm and probably on short hours Monday too. Managed to make the cut-off as I was working night shift last night and sometimes I don't get back until 1pm.

Fitted it back on at 11am this morning, but my left shoulder is killing me (all this fat old bastard grovelling around in the cold). Plus the icy wind and attempted snow wasn't helping things either.
 

3 yoyos for a compressed Brillo pad, I'd pay half that if it was Andrew Neil's barnet
 

The long-term plan, I got on the phone Friday to a Honda dealer advertising on Ebay and ordered a genuine Honda silencer. Should be hear late next week. I'm keeping this fucker of car.
 

Honda Jazz GD1 Rear Silencer 18030-SAA-010

(¹) There is breakdown recovery included with the car insurance, I can get 20 mile tow if needs be.
(²) If I throw it at a garage, VAT is 13.5% for the parts and labour. If I buy the part it's 23% for the part. Because weird VAT rules.

[Eddie Honda]

Smoll update.

 

This car was bought in June 2015 and had 68,249 miles on the clock. The main issue was that the CVT didn't work properly in reverse. It would idle and move backward, but any throttle application would result in slippage and non-movement. It would appear that in normal operation whilst at idle in reverse it would be in reverse ratio "1" and when the throttle is depressed it would move into reverse ratio "2". Anyway, this was all declared up front and I bought it anyway because these things can always be fixed.

 

It's only been a minor issue on a couple of occasions, where I've had to get half out of the car and give it some help. The long game is to fix it, but only when I've a suitable working motor for Mrs H in place. That hasn't happened yet, so I've just initially flushed and changed the CVT-F fluid every 12.5k miles. It now has a further 42k miles on it and hasn't got any worse.

 

Just back from a week trip to France (another 1,000 miles added)...AND OMGTOWING + CVT...and it's still behaving fine.

 

With all the holiday preparation and despite being told by Mrs H to change the back box before the holiday, I ignored all that and set off for France as it was (and the new one is sitting on the shelf in the shed). My man-thinking behind this one was that I can't be arsed fitting a new silencer, when I have a brake pipe to sort out behind it, so it'll just have to wait. The exhaust weldage on the 17th March is still holding fine 8½ weeks later (done 2,750 miles) so there!

 

 

(I didn't take out any specific breakdown recovery for Europe, I think I have some basic cover in place to get me to the nearest garage off the back of my car insurance policy, but I prefer to just self-insure and if that big bill hits me, then so be it).

 

The only other issue reported by Mrs H is occasionally the airbag warning light comes on whilst driving. Probably the seat connector as we both drive it. I'll get my HDS clone on it and see what it says.

 

Next update will be NCT, as it's due by the end of June.

[Eddie Honda]

 

That's the latest test out of the way. Although it wasn't as straight-forward as usual.

 

I decided to replace a bit of brake pipe, but due to various other domestic duties this was put on hold.

 

I drove the car back in July to work, for the first time in a couple of months. Coming back home I clocked a blue flash of light half a mile ahead. Bollocks. (The NCT disc was 17 days out). I decided to tough it out and continue to the checkpoint.

 

Guard: "How you doin', you well?"

Me: "Aye"

 

Guard goes over to the other side with his torch to check the discs

 

Guard: "Perfect, thanks"

Me: "Thanks"

 

And I drove off on my way.

 

Glad I didn't get a young 'un as I'd probably be €60 lighter and have 3pts on my licence. Phew! Despite that close shave, the test didn't actually get booked until late September.

 

First I had got the Sealey VS820 on the cheap from Amazon. That was okay, but being Honda, I needed to find a suitable pressure cap for the master cylinder. Much research later I found a cheap set of caps for €50 delivered. Ordered them and waited another week to get them.

 

 

They are not brilliant and one was broken on arrival, but considerable cheaper than some of the options. Then I encountered the next problem - the fittings. The Sealey has a quick-release connector that is marked HS20, meaning it is Nitto whereas the caps had Euro Industrial profile. More delay whilst I worked out what to do. I cut the bloody end off the Sealey and fitted this:

 

 

Also I though I'd better get myself (another) flaring tool. So I bought a S-P Flaremaster 2.

 

 

Replaced this offside rear pipe end:

 

With this:

 

With the assistance of this:

 

But whilst the wheels were off and I was bleeding the brakes, found this on the inside of the NSF tyre.

 

That's the second tyre of that set that hasn't made it to 1.6mm. The first one managed about 20k miles. I'll need to do some sums and work out how far this one has got. Fuck buying bloody Michelins! The wear well, but I'm not getting the chance to wear them out!

 

Booked the NCT at that point and managed to get another Michelin tyre (€115) a couple of days before the test and took it in last Thursday.

 

But after going through the lane I was presented with the sheet of shame...

 

 

He starts to read it out, then interrupts himself to say he's obliged to (FFS, I can read). He told me they hadn't any shame stickers to attach to the windscreen, he also inferred that they weren't grasses (because nobody likes a grass)

 

 

The leak in question was at the joint piece. Depsite what the tester said, it wasn't pissing out as such, but dripping under a certain amount of pressure. I knew this as I popped the bonnet where it was parked up after the test and saw that the master cylinder wasn't much down on it's max level (checked 10 days and 500 miles previously) and I calculated there was more than enough fluid left to safely make the 9 miles home in rush hour traffic if I didn't meet the fuzz. I jumped in and buggered off home, shamed that a presented a vehicle with such a fault (in fairness it was fine under the wooden leg test)

 

That night it pissed down, so I had to look at it the following morning. It was leaking from the steel pipe side of the joining piece so I nipped it up another quarter of a turn (I didn't want to overdo it first time) and wiped down the axles with plenty of water. After numerous refreshing of the booking site, I managed to get a cancellation for the Saturday, rather than waiting until the following Wednesday. Went in, retested the brakes and got my cert.

 

That's that for another six months, I'll be taking it in early next year (90 days prior to expiry)

 

The welded exhaust passed okay to and has been on for just over 8k miles / 8 months.

 

[Eddie Honda]

Avid readers will remember that for St Patrick's Day 2018, I welded the broken rear exhaust flange on the original (well I assume it is) Honda OEM exhaust.

 

Well roll onto St George's Day 2019 and all I can report is that the despite a farty-leak further up the system in the midsection (which I'll report on in due course), the "temporary" repair job of the rear silencer flange is still holding good 14,729 miles / 13 months later, so I haven't bothered to fit the shiny-shiny new one stashed in the shed.

 

I've done one other job on it since Oct 18, that's about as exciting as Honda ownership gets.

 

(Even MOTs are boring non-events with a 96.32% pass rate: https://garagewire.co.uk/news/official-mot-data-puts-honda-jazz-at-top-pass-rate-list/)

[Eddie Honda]

As previously reported, Mrs H noted that the Jizz had got noisier and the exhaust might need looking at.

I examined the exhaust at the rear of the rear flange and at the side near the hanger ahead of he middle silencer (they can stress crack inside the weld there) and decided to put it on the long finger.

After coming back from the Jaaag weekend Sunday 5th May, I returned to work that afternoon only to receive calls/messages from Mrs H that the exhaust had fallen off the car at the back. As it was a short distance from the house, instructions were given to return home with the car. Lots of grumbling was had about the episode as Honda Jr 2 had to get to the GP for an appointment (and later hospital).

On returning home at 2am, I could see what the problem was in the headlamp beam of the BM. The problem with the exhaust was not my welding (indeed that was still doing its job) but it had split next to the weld on the adjacent flange which is part of the middle section, so a plan was considered to get the welder out again. This turned out not to be necessary as I had another exhaust to pinch from the old Jizz. For a few days the car went sans backbox to keep mobile.

In the meantime I went to the local motor factors the following day, Mon 6th, to sort out some gaskets. Stuff was ordered and collected on Wed 8th. This ended up being a fat-fingered fuck-up because instead of getting the ones I wanted - Bosal 256-520, the man had ordered 256-250, they looked the same, but they were fook all use to me as they're 10mm smaller and for a Yaris. Getting the correct bits added a couple more days to the wait, so it was Fri 10th before I was ready to start on the job.

As this is a keeper, I wanted to get hold of a Honda middle section, so went online hunting for part numbers/prices, starting with Lings. They were €218, and others online similar. Whilst doing this, I thought I'd price up other service items needed. Given that Cox's wouldn't ship an exhaust because of size I thought I'd drop the local Honda stealer, Fitzpatrick's an email. Sent one off at 5am Fri 10th and didn't get a reply by 4pm, so I chased them up on the phone. The Parts Manager said the first one wasn't received so I resent the email which he replied back to 40 minutes later with surprisingly cheap prices for Honda (you can see below I was €130 over with my guesstimate),

but being a Friday and 5pm this had knocked delivery of the pipe into the Wed 15th / Thu 16th. Paid over the phone and arrange to collect them the following week. I got a call on Thu 16th, but it only rang once before I had a chance to answer. I planned to go down on Friday (usual day off), but as I got there just after one o'clock, there was nobody on the parts desk as they all had cleared off for lunch. Reception couldn't help me, so I had to go all the way back to pick up Honda Jr 2 from school at 2pm and make another round trip to the dealer.

Back to the 11th May: The next problem was the cat. The front cat section is attached to the middle by three studs and nuts which are a cunt to undo and a lot of exhaust places can't be arsed and rather sell a new one. The correct course of action is remove the middle + cat completely and do the separation off the car. A dry run was performed on the old Jizz as it was already up on axle stands. The wasn't too much effort and quite easy,

the same couldn't be said of the flange nuts, so out with the hacksaw...

Three nuts sawn off and it could be separated. However now I had three broken studs to deal with. Out with the hacksaw again...

No luck. Drill time. After a lot of fannying around with drills, I get eventually get the bastards out. Those studs are splined...

Armed with three fresh bolts and some copper locking nuts I was good to get on with the actual swap. While working against the weekend free-time clock under the car last Sunday, a neighbour came round to offer to cut the grass. I hadn't done it this year so far and it was embarrassingly long. I have no shame though, but agreed for peace and quiet with Mrs H that he could cut it if it was really no bother for him.

After losing a sodding small m6 bolt that held a wiring plug bracket onto the engine and spending an hour or so looking for the bastard that fell, but not to the ground, I robbed one from the old Jizz and finished up. Got to work a couple of hours late to boot, but nobody was too fussed as Sunday is quiet.

Doing a quick test before I left, it was noted that the EML was lit. Ah bollocks, time to get my Chinese knock-off Honda HIM / HDS out, the only problem being I had to junk the last shit Toshiba lappy out, so I had nothing with the HDS software on to use. I do have an old Eee PC900 netbook handy, so gave that a whirl this weekend. That was shit and coming up with error messages of its own, so I've spent most of this weekend melting my head trying to get it running and talking to the HIM (which it isn't so far) to get the codes out of it. It'll be something to do with the pre/post oxygen sensors or wiring, but which exactly, I don't know.

The cat/middle exhaust taken off this car merited a different approach to the flange separation. Of the three locking flange nuts, the top one corrodes the least. I was able to hammer a socket over this one and actually undo it. The lower pair which gets the road shit, needed something else - namely big fire and the right tools. Time to try out those Koken Nut Twisters against these two rusty nuts.

Fire up the fire

Select a tight fitting nut twister and hammer it on.

Feel it bite more and crack the nut loose

And off

[Eddie Honda]

Round 2. This was a bit harder.

First moar fire.

Then remove all the flaky rust. Look at the state of that now, what hope have I got?

As the diameter is a bit smaller than the last due to corrosion, I'm having a bit of bother getting the socket to grip,

so it's down from a 12mm to 10mm (as I have no eleven in this set although you can get them)

This while gripping, doesn't have enough depth onto the socket, so although it starts to turn and loosen off, it's shredding the end of the nut. As the flange of the nut has a gap behind it now, I can jump up to the 17mm and grip the shoulder.

And the second one is off. The threads on the studs are fine for reuse and I haven't touch the hacksaw.

Koken Nut Twister sockets (3/8" drive on rail RS3127/7) 9/10. Whilst they are pricey, they come in more gradual sizings than the Irwin Bolt-Grips. Ideally I'd have got better purchase on the nut with a 11mm, but managed to work my way round that. To use these successfully you need to use a size that is a good tight hammer-on fit and not at all slack. Infinitely better than having to dick around sawing/grinding/drilling those studs out and saves loads of time.