Significant cars

[Mr A Lawrence]

Would you, if you discovered your car was a VERY early production model, ie, first few off the line, mess with its originality??

 

Reason I ask is on the mg forum a guy has #29 of the first days production of the mgf and wants to fit a mk2/2001 on clock set which means butchering the loom to add only a digital milage indicator and an electronic speedo head!

 

I know Mgf prices are on their arse at the moment but recently it keeps getting tipped as a future classic by the classic press, especially the mk1 early cars.

 

I can think of a handful of cars that are commanding higher premiums for early or press production cars such as the mini and the mk1 discovery.

 

If I had a very early car I think I'd keep it as "factory" as I could!!

[Urko]

Both my Chevy and AMCs are exceptionally rare one-year only models made even rarer by being factory rhd. My BX 4x4 gti was very rare. In each case I will do/did do any non-factory bodge I feel like, cos they are worth sod all.

 

I highly doubt R75s will go the same way as Velar Rovers etc

[twosmoke300]

Both my Chevy and AMCs are exceptionally rare one-year only models made even rarer by being factory rhd. My BX 4x4 gti was very rare. In each case I will do/did do any non-factory bodge I feel like, cos they are worth sod all.

 

I highly doubt R75s will go the same way as Velar Rovers etc

I thought all american cars are one year specials cos they change them every bloody year 

[Magnificent Rustbucket]

The low financial value doesn't matter to me and wouldn't affect my decision. Personally, I would keep any really rare or significant car standard. It is a bit different of course if it is a choice between continued life and scrapping the thing - particularly if the part needed is unavailable.

[MarvinsMom]

no, I would leave well alone cos most of these owner driver modifications are crap, and imo only hasten the cars call to the scrap yard, because said crap mod's will and do fuck up and fail.

[Magnificent Rustbucket]

I thought all american cars are one year specials cos they change them every bloody year 

 

 

He he! Probably true, but I imagine factory RHD must be bloody rare!

[Urko]

I thought all american cars are one year specials cos they change them every bloody year

Good point well made. I have the slowest-selling versions anywhere - then in rhd. The AMC is the last year they ever made a convertible of my model. They are really rare, yet bordering on worthless chod - like my BX 4x4 was. Quite a few bits for that were made of unobtainium so originality had to go out of the window.

 

Loads of body parts are available for 50's Chevys - almost none for the model I have, and none of the bits that are rotten - I am seriouslh considering rebodying it as a more popular version. Someone's already put a V8 auto in it. It had a straight six manual originally - chances of finding that stuff with the rhd linkages = less than zero (been lookjng casually for 15 years)

[mercrocker]

Interesting debate.....Perceived wisdom, certainly the one trotted out by magazines, is that the later cars are usually best as they have been developed further.   This probably makes sense if, for example, you want disc brakes and improved engine breathing on a Mk2 Zodiac.   This usually has an impact then on earlier cars as people tend to "upgrade" them making early cars in their pure form even rarer but not necessarily more desirable.   Keeping to the Mk2 Ford, early "flat" rear panel and egg-crate versions of the original Hi Line cars are keenly sought after and very scarce - even back in the day you rarely saw them.

 

I would cherish the features of an early example of something - especially if the visible changes were made early on in production as in the above example.  I would sooner have an early 190E than the one I have now, but on the other hand I prefer the water-cooled development of my T25.   My Cowley is an early example (not early enough to have smaller brakes, for which I am grateful) and its been upgraded to 1500cc - I wouldn't want to put it back to 1200cc either.   

 

My Minor 1000 is mid-period but is a fairly uncommon change-over  model - 1098cc engine, flat dash and clap-hand wipers and these items I prefer to the later cars.

 

Its nice to keep things the way they are and if something is really early then it would make sense to preserve it that way, certainly the bits that differ visibly.   By the same token I would soon get pissed  off with rivet counters telling me something was wrong if I preferred the car with whatever modification it had.   

 

I still bitterly regret chopping up a 1959 Mini Seven - I killed it before the logbook came through from Swansea and only had my suspicions when I found the rear side-bins had lights in them.   Having said that it needed a shitload of welding and it was back in 1977....

 

I love seeing early stuff preserved, though - black-dash Heralds, bumper-exhaust F Type Victors, Mk1 GT6s that kind of thing....

[xtriple]

The Bentley of much greeness and annoyance is a very rare old heap! It is one of four short wheelbase rhd 'final edition' cars. There were twelve in total but eight were left hookers and fooked off to places warmer...

 

It is also, according to its chassis number, the eleventh from last of all the SZ cars made.

 

I would happily swap it for a less rare car if the bastard would work reliably!

[gordonbennet]

For some reason i always end up buying the in between car, an early example of the last facelift or summat, which maybe only lasted 2 years out of a 7/10 year production run in total, its always a bugger to get parts for unless genuine cos they sod about in parts bins at the time and you can end up with Johnny Cash's bloody one piece at a time special, nearly always have the bigger engine for the next model too, which again can be a blessing and a pain in the arse.

 

Who knows what to do about this, me i just enjoy what i've got and try to perfect it for my wants and taste (might mean a different size tyre or wheel which has some in fits of pique), sometimes the maker gets things slightly wrong and the car can be improved to your own requirements, such changes the purists faint at if its something regarded as a future classic, but in truth so few of these cars will actually still be running at 40/50 years old does it really matter that much.

 

If something's going to be worth serious money in the future no doubt someone will take it on and put it all back right anyway..so maybe the answer is to keep anything you remove to change in a big box just in case you've got one with some real value ten years down the line.

[pompei]

Ask the Mk III Cortina Club.  Then stand well back.

[oldcars]

I don't modify anything, No busy fixing them or trying to stop rust 

 

Unless a swimming pool* in the rear footwells of a Rialto is a mod.

[danthecapriman]

I must admit I think anything that's managed to survive to become old or classic should be left as standard, but that's just what I like.

In reality if modifying an old car keeps it going then so be it. Better having them around in any state than turned into razor blades surely. Besides, modifications can always be reversed if need be.

 

Both my Chevy and AMCs are exceptionally rare one-year only models made even rarer by being factory rhd. My BX 4x4 gti was very rare. In each case I will do/did do any non-factory bodge I feel like, cos they are worth sod all.

I highly doubt R75s will go the same way as Velar Rovers etc

You got any pics of your yanks? Id love to see them!

[sheffcortinacentre]

think you meen mk3 owners reg guy is nuts & knows bugger all about them.

 

he was once telling everyone about the different spec steering wheel fitted to my south African bakkie & how the centre was flat compared to the uk ones.

err no that's a std early mk2 escort one as previous owner wanted his go faster one back & I needed to steer it, till I fit a mk3 one.

 

my bakkie & Crayford are near std  (stainless exhaust, etc bolt on mods) as their rare, but my others are modded mild upto 5.0 V8.

 

rare stuff should be kept as std as poss.

[Tam]

Not a stickler for originality, 75,s and ZT,s get loads of different upgrades. The raffle 214 seems fairly original so will try to keep it like that if I can although its not a particularly special. My driving P6 already has been messed about with different engine and heads also 5 speed gearbox so nothing to cherish there!

The 1964 2000 on the other hand is totally original bar a bit of paint with 47000 miles. Which is quite rare in itself but it is also probably one of the oldest left! Certainly in the top 20 earliest cars. As a result I kinda see it as my duty to keep it original although there are tempting improvements I could make, alternator instead of dynamo or Girling brakes instead of the Dunlops.

So I would say that any car that has survived 50 years or even 20 years and not been messed about with, should be kept as such but its up to the owner at the end of the day 

[spike60]

I prefer originality because owner done mods are crap on the whole. Very rarely have I seen a car that the owner has improved, well done sensible stuff like alternator instead of dynmo excepted.

[Pillock]

#29 off the line means nothing, if it's not #1 then no museum is going to want it so I can't see it has any more perceived value than #589462.

 

The only time that will ever crop up in conversation is with another beardy enthusiast or an eBay advert justifying the 2x price tag.

[billyboy406v6]

If its been on the road for a while, its safe to presume tyres, exhaust, fan belts etc, are non original. So its up to him. And should the next owner want to undo his mods then a new loom/dials could be fitted ?

[fordperv]

If it was really rare like one of the first 5 produced I'd leave it alone, other than that it's fair game as things like clocks are reversible.

 

Saying that I was gutted I couldn't get the 3 door base specific parts or even L spec parts to save me modifying my sierra 1.6 base back in 2001 and that car isn't really significant in any way

[dave21478]

I quite literally dont care. Realistically, what is an MGF going to be worth in the future?  I am going to put my pessemistic trousers on and say that I think the glory days of motoring are behind us and the chances of anythings value going astronomical like Minis or VW or whatever did are very slim indeed.

 

"Give it 30 years and see what its worth", people say.

 

30 years from now you probably wont be allowed to drive it on the road. You certainly wont be allowed to drive it in a city anyway and nobody is going to be paying big money for a garden ornament.

[Dippy]

I think they have the right to do whatever they want to their own car but personally don't see the point of just changing things for no reason.

 

I try to keep my cars as standard as possible but will carry out mods if absolutely necessary to avoid breaking down or a big safety issue.

Im not sure why people feel the need to change everything all the time, by the time this guys finished he will have probably introduced many bad joints to his dashboard.

 

Why doesn't he buy a later car if he wants the later parts or even a new car as it will all work much better than an old heap. He's probably doing it so he can bore other members of the owners club

with details of his bodge job.

[pandamonium]

I'd modify anything. If I wanted to be dictated to as to what I could and couldn't do with my car, I might as well stick with my company car.

[RayMK]

I'm another one in the camp 'the owner can do what he likes to his/her car' and get a bit irritated at classic car gatherings when I hear the anoraks arguing about the position and colour of labels on the engine, however, I accept that different opinions and attitudes are inevitable.  Some owners boast about originality, then give the full story of the restoration - new wings, totally reconditioned engine, new interior trim, bare metal respray etc.....and older cars may have gone through this process more than once. It's all a bit Trigger's broom .   Tatra used to update their cars when they came in for a major service (thinking of the 603 in particular).  I like to see original cars, cars in museums, modified cars, trailer queen concours beauties, autoshite bodged survivors and rarities. I like mine to be drivable and presentable.

[New POD]

#29 off the line means nothing, if it's not #1 then no museum is going to want it so I can't see it has any more perceived value than #589462.

 

The only time that will ever crop up in conversation is with another beardy enthusiast or an eBay advert justifying the 2x price tag.

 

There's a mini 59 register for all the shite that issigonis failed to fix before it was launched.  They seem to command top dollar despite that the product gradually improved over the years.