The most underestimated shite of all times

[Uncle Jimmy]

Another Pininfarina belter; virtually unknown outside of France.

[MrBiscuits]

Fast(ish), Stylish, ahead of its time, definitely underestimated in the UK:

 

 

The TXI my Dad had in the late 90’s even turned out to be pretty reliable too. Still one of the best interiors IMHO.

 

[Junkman]

The SD1 sold fairly well and is well known because being a lemon.

 

EFA

[warren t claim]

The only underrated Chrysler that deserves a mention on here is the 180/2 Litre.

[Timewaster]

It saddens me that I will probably never own an sd1.

[scdan4]

I'd go for one of these, but of course without the "slam" and no pineapples. Strong, powerful, characterful,decent to drive and surprisingly economical. Roomy, cheap and very strong. I had 4 or 5 many years ago, not including a Santana and a couple of Audi 90's. never gave any issues, took the family to Germany loaded to the roof, towed a car trailer and caravan everywhere and none of them ever gave any grief. VW? What the hell happened...

 

 

Dad had one of these for yonks when i was a kid.

As soon as his mechanic mate saw it he said "it'll catch fire" Apparently they were known for that charming foible.

 

It didn't catch fire for about 4 years, but it did burn itself out 3 days after he had sold it to a work colleague, whilst it was in the works car park.

 

 

 

Mk3 grandads rock

 

I second all of this. 

 

I loved mine, bought for 82 quid from a guy in cardiff via ebay auction. 

 

You never, ever see anyone looking uncomfortable in a granada.

 

 

 

 

In a similar vein I'd like to nominate the humble Toyota Camry. Bombproof and comfy. 

[EssDeeWon]

 

End of Topic!!

[skattrd]

It depends on your definition of shite, to me a 90s Honda/Peugeot/Whatever is not shite, it's simply a car.

[scaryoldcortina]

Following on from Mr Junk's nomination of the Mk2 Granada. Might I suggest it's less glamorous successor.

Ok it hasn't got the glamour of being transport for Messers Regan or Cowley and it was certainly never revered for its Motorsport connections in the twilight of its days like the Mk1 and 2 .

But it was, at its launch, quite an adventurous design ( no saloon or estate for the first 5 years, remember) and was the first ' normal ' car to have ABS as standard.

They are massive inside, something the Mk2 couldn't claim,for all its comfort. Very practical - I once transferred the contents of a full W123 Merc estate into a hatchback Granada, ok it was dragging on the ground as it hadn't got self levelling but it all fitted and the wheezy 2.0 carb Pinto still sat at 90 all the way to Glasgow.

My favourite are probably the first saloons from 1990/92 with the 24v being the best. At the time they were always seen as not quite as good as a 24v Senator and I must agree they weren't quite as fast but as an all round package I just preferred them.

These days nice ones are still available for a fraction of the roughest Mk2s, get one now before we're all bemoaning the fact the OldSkoolRacists have got all the best ones.

 

I'd agree, and also nominate it's even less popular despite basically being the same car with more toys successor the Scorpio. I think over the years I've had at least five or six grannys and still own two scorps.

[twosmoke300]

We might add the Mondeo to the list, although I have no real personal experience yet (some shiter might be able to fill us in for sure).

I've never heard anything negative about them.

I once drove a MKIII V6 as a hire car (in Turin, of all places!) and must say I quite liked it. I found it astonishing that it sounded like an old Granada V6,

just a lot more muffled. They must have tweaked the exhaust quite a bit to make it do that.

There writes a man who has never had to work on the hateful things!!

[scaryoldcortina]

You mean wishbone bolts that go downwards and a subframe that snaps its bolts when you remove it to change the clutch for example? You could argue it was one of the first truly modern designs because of that!

[twosmoke300]

Or cats on a v6 . Clutch in a mk3 diesel , rear hubs seized solid in rear arms . Alternator belts that require the alt and it's mounts taken off to replace etc etc etc

[NorfolkNWeigh]

Here is an example though, independent rear suspension, excellent ride and handling, ultra good looks, good build quality, esp later ones which were galvanised.

Sold badly coz it said 'FIAT' on the hood.

I disagree that the 130 Coupe is underestimated or unappreciated . It was lauded for its looks from when it first appeared and even though it only had a short production run ( 5 years?) and was very expensive they were relatively common in the UK . I seem to remember they were quite a common sight in the late 70's early 80's at least as common as SMs, SLCs and XJ-Cs which must have been the same sort of price/market.

They seemed to gain classic status as soon as they went out of production and are widely considered one of the most elegant coupes of the era . I don't think Fiat wanted them to be more popular,if they did they'd have made a 2.0 version to sell to poor foreigners like they did with Ferraris.

[Magnificent Rustbucket]

I disagree that the 130 Coupe is underestimated or unappreciated . It was lauded for its looks from when it first appeared and even though it only had a short production run ( 5 years?) and was very expensive they were relatively common in the UK . I seem to remember they were quite a common sight in the late 70's early 80's at least as common as SMs, SLCs and XJ-Cs which must have been the same sort of price/market.

They seemed to gain classic status as soon as they went out of production and are widely considered one of the most elegant coupes of the era . I don't think Fiat wanted them to be more popular,if they did they'd have made a 2.0 version to sell to poor foreigners like they did with Ferraris.

I suspect it is true they sold fairly well - I do remember there being quite a number of them for sale in the 1980s. Whilst hardly common, they weren't rare.

 

 

Another Pininfarina belter; virtually unknown outside of France.

Lovely looking car and with probably the best all-round ride of any car I have been in.

 

I also agree with the choice of Caprice Classic. They are good looking and capable cars. The father of a lad who went to my school had one when I was a kid. It was a RHD one in the same colour as Junkman posted - presumably imported and converted by Lendrum and Hartman.

[Magnificent Rustbucket]

Predictably, I also nominate the Jaguar XJ40 as one of the most misunderestimated cars. They're really rather good and don't fall to bits or fizz in the rain nearly so much as people think. I love mine and definitely think it suits me.

 

 

 

 

[Uncle Jimmy]

I disagree that the 130 Coupe is underestimated or unappreciated . It was lauded for its looks from when it first appeared and even though it only had a short production run ( 5 years?) and was very expensive they were relatively common in the UK . I seem to remember they were quite a common sight in the late 70's early 80's at least as common as SMs, SLCs and XJ-Cs which must have been the same sort of price/market.

They seemed to gain classic status as soon as they went out of production and are widely considered one of the most elegant coupes of the era . I don't think Fiat wanted them to be more popular,if they did they'd have made a 2.0 version to sell to poor foreigners like they did with Ferraris.

I think around 150k were built, so yes a mass produced car. I was offered a solid one for £2.5k about 6 years ago...suffice to say I didn't purchase it....doh. Recently they have become desirable true nuff.

[Uncle Jimmy]

Fact is there ain't much that's good which hasn't been re appraised recently, the Lotus Excel (now that I've sold mine) has begun to move upwards....will the Lancia Gamma finally become desirable?

[warren t claim]

Another shout for the Mk3 Granada. Fucking huge inside and the higher spec models were loaded with toys. It was the car the Rover SD1 should of been.

[captain_70s]

 

Sub-Sprint Dolomites/Toledos. Sort of cheating 'cause all cars of this sort of age are recognised as "classics" but I find they tend to be looked down on as BL crap when as an owner of three of the bastarding things I find them to be fantastic.

 

I think they sold pretty well initially, offering a compact Escort/Viva sized saloon without the austerity, now-a-days they seem fairly forgotten. Escorts are mega money, Avengers are heading the same way, Vivas are rising in value as most of them have dissolved and Allegros are so shit they've become ironically cool. The Dolly/Tolly is incredibly undervalued considering what you get for your money. The car in general looks fairly upright and uninspiring (later cars got festooned with tack on door trims and plastic hubcaps and the square headlight models look quite dowdy, most cars are turd brown) but is actually great fun to drive, even the 1300 model despite it's tiny power output is amusing and very comfortable and the 1850 will easily keep up with modern traffic on the motorway.

They aren't really any less reliable than any other 1970s cars, the engines do about 100-130k between rebuilds if well maintained and service parts are cheap, spares in general are easy to find and lots of bodywork is reproduced by the owners club. 1500 engines tend to suffer premature bottom end wear and slant-4s like to leak water from the water pump and stupid thermostat bypass tube thing but most stuff is an easy fix. 

 

You get: 

Styling - Boxy, upright, 1960s Italian styling. It's dignified.

A commanding seating position - You sit high in the car and look down at lower class people. Just like one of those new fangled SUVs, Triumph were ahead of the game.

Luxurious interior appointments - Heated rear screen as STANDARD in 1976. REAL WOOD DASH LIKE A ROLLER. Painted metal in the cabin, are you having a laugh? This is a TRIUMPH, man.

A usable boot space - Fits up to TWO dead hookers.

The most comfortable rear seat in the world - Friends say it would be good for having sex on but I drive a Triumph Dolomite so I wouldn't know.

Handling prowess - Dolomites are fun, you can throw them around corners with ease and confidence, take wet roundabouts sideways and do doughnuts in snowy carparks. They're also bloody narrow (same width as a K11 Micra) so when you meet a tractor coming the other way during a spirited B-road blast you can scrape past it and won't be horribly killed to death.

Nostalgia - The smell of petrol and oil when starting on a cold morning, burning hot/freezing cold vinyl seats, 4 forwards gears, MW/LW radio, ride quality that doesn't shatter bones.

Value - Have fun finding a Mk2 Scrote on the road and MOT'd for a grand...

 

What you don't get:

Recognition at car shows - People walk past the Dolomites like they invisible. Occasionally you hear somebody say "is that a Sprint?", then they look at the badges and bugger off towards the Capris looking disappointed. The only people who will talk to you are people who have previously owned Triumph Dolomites, they all loved them, fact. 

Respect from anybody - Come home with a Mk2 Escort and people spaff their pants. Dolomite ownership comes hand in hand with British Leyland jokes and regular reminders that your car is cheap, old and not a Ford or VW Beetle and is therefore crap.

Functional heaters in OHV cars - They're shit.

An investment - Escorts are so valuable you can't lose money. A Dolomite will kick you in balls and steal your wallet, frequently, and values will remain low.

 

To wrap up. Do you want to buy a classic car for under £2k that isn't an utter pig of a thing? Room for the whole family*? Fun to drive but returning over 35mpg? Buy a Dolomite, quick. Before people realise they are actually quite alright and prices rocket...

 

*Standard 1970s family, 2.5 kids at most and no fatties.

[derskine]

 

These got mocked a lot but they are actually brilliant cars.

Handling like a boat is a myth, they handle very well, are reliable, comfy and very basic hence easy to fix.

[trigger]

I wouldn't call it underestimated but rather underappreciated, but the Triumph Acclaim gets my vote, yeah it's a bit rubbish but they are far better then their reputation suggests.

[Bear]

I'd go for one of these, but of course without the "slam" and no pineapples. Strong, powerful, characterful,decent to drive and surprisingly economical. Roomy, cheap and very strong. I had 4 or 5 many years ago, not including a Santana and a couple of Audi 90's. never gave any issues, took the family to Germany loaded to the roof, towed a car trailer and caravan everywhere and none of them ever gave any grief. VW? What the hell happened...

 

My dad's GL5 estate made me have massive respect for VWs. I died a little inside when we went to replace it and the Mk 3 Pissrat had appeared.

 

Sidenote: I've owned a Mk 3 - grey metallic 1.8 saloon. It is without a doubt, the most-forgotten car in in my history, it takes effort to remember I owned it.

[Bear]

I'd like to submit a family of cars, but with specific personal experience of just two.

 

The Fiat Tipo, and derivatives thereof.

 

Compared to a Golf (Mk 2 or 3), Escort, most of the Japanese competition and arguably the French (though the 309 is a good driver's car despite being a bit of an ugly orphan Talbot), the Fiat Tipo was comfortable, versatile, pretty reliable, solid, had a good bit of character and a really solid galvanised body. Even in 1.4 form it was pure fun to drive, well balanced and still lively.

 

And then, because it fell between classes in size, the Marea Weekend takes the mantle from the Tempra S.W, as (regrettably) I never owned the Tempra estate, only a 1.8i.e. saloon.

 

My Marea Weekend was ex-demo. Technically it should not have been sold with so few miles, but when my Punto Sporting went in for yet another warranty job, they loaned me a Marea 1.6 SX and I decided I liked it MUCH more than the Punto and begged them to swap them out. And incredibly, they did, pulling the car off demo with just 1100 miles on, half of which I'd done!

 

It had a lot of the character of the Tipo, with a great, revvy engine and fantastic balance and brakes. The folding bumper trick was useful a couple of times, the high tail lights looked good, the ergonomics were better than the smaller Fiats and for a 1.6 estate car it was bloody quick.

 

How quick? It nearly gave me enough rope to lose my licence on the M4. Indicated 125 when the blue lights appeared, hard braking down instantly, they got my 1/4 mile average as 107.4mph, And I wasn't even ragging it that much.

 

I know fans go for the five-pot. I know the Alfa 155 is a sexier Tipo derivative, and yes, the Coupé and GTV, and Bravo HGT (though I tried an HGT and it felt all wrong. Too nose heavy, too slow to rev, it lost the spark in exchange for grunt). But the Marea has pretty much vanished from British roads post-scrappage and they were much better cars than I suspect the general public realised.

[wuvvum]

Camry and Marea are both good calls.  You rarely see a Camry for sale as they didn't sell many to start with and people who do have them tend to hold on to them.

 

I found the 2-litre 5-pot made a lot less difference to the handling in the Marea than it did in the Bravo - presumably because there's a lot more out back to balance it out.  The 2.4 JTD did feel somewhat nose-heavy though.  I think a nice 1.9 TD Weekend would make an ideal daily, if I could find one.

[Bear]

Saw a 1990 Corolla liftback today. Forgot how many 'sizes' of car the Corolla managed to be!

 

The underestimated one I want to try is the Stilo. I remember a yellow 3rd Stilo Abarth with the lamella-type glass sunroof in Hawick, and thinking what a great looking, sharp car it was and imagining how it must drive and handle. But you never see them now - I can't honestly remember the last time I saw a Stilo of either flavour.

[wuvvum]

Stilo isn't a bad old crate, although nowhere near as fun to drive as its predecessors - it feels far more "grown up".  A lot of the Abarths came with the sillyspeed gearbox as well, which spoils them.  I wouldn't kick a JTD150 out of bed though.

[Bear]

Fact is there ain't much that's good which hasn't been re appraised recently, the Lotus Excel (now that I've sold mine) has begun to move upwards....will the Lancia Gamma finally become desirable?

 

Wasn't the Gamma always desirable? Another one of those "missed out... thankfuck" moments was when I nearly traded my Beetle Cabriolet for a pair of Gamma coupés. They are beautiful, beautiful cars. But I would have wasted them, been baffled, overwhelmed.

 

Of course being just as much of a prat then as now, I swapped the Karmann beast for a CX GTi Turbo 2 with light front end damage. Well done, past me, you moron.

[Magnificent Rustbucket]

The Gamma has always been desired and it has always been feared. Maybe now, the desire will outweigh the fear.

[Bear]

See. This is pretty much the model most of my exes seemed to work on. Bloody goths.

[andrew e]

Another vote for the Marea. We bought one just under a year old, £6599 from the Great Trade Centre (Car giant) in 1999 - a bright red 1.6 ELX automatic. Ex-Avis down to the laminated driving controls leaflet in the sun visor! Factory climate control too. Despite being bright red, it was reversed into 3 times, I took a wing out when I hit a deer on the M25/A12 slip road and put the back window in when I accidently loaded an engine hoist through the gap between the boot lid and bodyshell (with my van parked next to it, Mrs very unimpressed!). You could get 15 full cement bags of hardcore in it. Took it too the Alps on chains once.

 

Just remembered Wife shunted someone on the Dartford bridge as well whilst heavily pregnant driving too work....

 

In 2005 with nearly 140k on the clock I traded it. Mechanically it was tougher than the Blues mobile, exterior wise it resembled the Blues mobile too. I still own the boot liner, I cut it down to fit my E39. Excellent car too, ran that too 200k.

 

So vote for the Marea, vote for the E39 5 series.