MOT fail - advice please

[stripped fred]

Took my mr2 mk1 in for it's MOT today. It failed on a couple of areas that need welding. The corner of the rear o/s inner sill and a previous plate behind the front o/s wheel where it has come away from the underside on one edge. I took it to a garage nearby and he will do it for me and also a 50p size hole in the floorpan which was an advisory. I don't know the cost but probably £200+. My question, how easy is it to learn to weld to MOT standard in a week? Even if I don't do this myself I think I need to learn if I'm going to try a chod car for my next daily runner.

 

The other item it failed on was a rear wheel bearing. I'm sure the mr2 is not a usual shite car as only for hairdressers but does anyone know how easy it would be to change it myself? I have quite a few tools although no puller but that could bought. It can't be that different from any other rear wheel drive car can it? The garage looked it up and it says 2.75hrs labour so with the part and vat it's another £200. They said it can't be adjusted which is a shame. They are a decent old school garage too so I believe them.

 

Thanks for any shite advice that may be forthcoming...

[twosmoke300]

Rear wheel brg will be the same as most fwd front bearings . Press usually reqd

[PiperCub]

Honestly? Not taking a poke at your skill-base but no it's not. The theory of MIG welding is straightforward and easy to understand but like many practical skills - it needs practice to be any good at it and in a week? Realistically, no.

 

Probably best to get it done but take the hint, buy a MIG (poss 2nd hand?), get some clean metal offcuts and go for it, that's how most folk do it. You'll be set up for the next rust-fest! I did this as a student in the late 80's and it was worth every penny subsequently.

 

Bearings? Can be easy or can be real whores to get out without damaging the housing - hence the need for a decent puller (plus poss a press to get new ones in?). Ask this Q on a MisterTwo forum - they may be able to advise (never had one myself).

[vulgalour]

Some people can pick up a MIG having never seen one before and go zzzzap, MoTable welds.  Some people can never master it no matter what they try.  The rest have a hit and miss approach where some welds are little better than pigeon poo and others are so perfect they make you cry.  the perfect ones are always just to the side of the bit you meant to weld or on a bit that didn't need welding.

[dave21478]

If you can get someone who knows what they are doing to tech you, its possible to pick up the basics of MIG welding in a few hours. An afternoon should get you proficient, but thats welding offcuts on your workbench.

However, welding upside down on metal possibly thinned out by corrosion is literally as hard as it gets and likely to be incredibly frustrating for you.

[Bobthebeard]

Regarding learning to weld to MOT standards it really isn't difficult TBH. Buy a decent MIG set up and just practice. Hit the results hard with a hammer and see what breaks/seperates due to lack of weld penetration etc. It may seem like a dark art until you give it a go, then very quickly all becomes clear. Use good protective gear and a self darkening helmet. You will be laying down good welds within hours if you spend time reading up on t'internet and practicing.

Oh, and the MOT standards for welding repairs is pretty low IMHO. Realise that welding is actually structural and as such, needs to actually fuse metal together rather than just 'sticking a patch on' and you will be fine.

[PiperCub]

^^ I'd agree with that - seen some right shit welding that is allegedly 'MoT'-standard.

[stripped fred]

Honestly? Not taking a poke at your skill-base but no it's not. The theory of MIG welding is straightforward and easy to understand but like many practical skills - it needs practice to be any good at it and in a week? Realistically, no.

 

Probably best to get it done but take the hint, buy a MIG (poss 2nd hand?), get some clean metal offcuts and go for it, that's how most folk do it. You'll be set up for the next rust-fest! I did this as a student in the late 80's and it was worth every penny subsequently.

 

Bearings? Can be easy or can be real whores to get out without damaging the housing - hence the need for a decent puller (plus poss a press to get new ones in?). Ask this Q on a MisterTwo forum - they may be able to advise (never had one myself).

I was being a bit tongue in cheek. I suppose like anything it takes practice. I think I will take your advice though and learn how to do it for next time. I suppose one of the main problems is that a garage will have a nice 4 post lift whereas the likes of you and me have to lie on our backs on the drive. That must make the whole job more challenging!

[stripped fred]

Thanks fellas, all good advice. Right, off to check out secondhand mig welders...

[forddeliveryboy]

Welding with a reasonable qual MiG is not difficult, but rebuilding an inner sill (especially on the rhs if you're right-handed) isn't for beginners, no matter how capable they think they may be.

 

There's the risk of fire even if a car runs on vegoil - you can set light to the interior if you're unlucky - let alone a car which is petrol-fired. Lots of corrosion finishes a car off where it has been previously welded for numerous reasons, so it may be worth giving the area some internal protection once the job's done. Not many general garages bother to protect the inside of a repair, and there'll be bare metal exposed.

 

Rear wheel bearing could be a real pain in the arse, depending - and you wouldn't know until you had everything apart. If the hub comes off easily enough there's nothing to stop you from nipping down to an engineering works to have it pressed in, which would save a few £.

[Bobthebeard]

I was being a bit tongue in cheek. I suppose like anything it takes practice. I think I will take your advice though and learn how to do it for next time. I suppose one of the main problems is that a garage will have a nice 4 post lift whereas the likes of you and me have to lie on our backs on the drive. That must make the whole job more challenging!

Four post lift? Pffft. Laying on your back on the drive? Luxury. Me old dad welded up an Austin Somerset underwater wearing sunglasses and only used a sparkler and some matches. Good old days etc etc... 😀

[UltraWomble]

My father taught me to weld with an arc when I had the 1300. I can make passable welds. They look shit but are functional and withstand twatting with a hammer.

 

Even now after years of practice my MIG skillorz are crap and welds look like pigeon poo.

[Stanky]

Re the bearing, if it's stubborn then may the lord have mercy on you. We needed a bearing doing for the last MOT the Kia had, 'ah ha' said the MOT man, 'tis but a simple job'

 

He removed the hub, and attempted to press the offending bearing out. 25 tonnes later the hub distorted and had to be thrown, bearing and all, into the scrap metal pile in the corner. A new hub was liberated from a scrapper and the bearing came out without drama.

 

Unfortunately, until you have the little bastard off the car and in front of you (in a press) there is simply no way of telling if its going to pop right out, or refuse to budge and knacker the whole hub trying.

 

I know it's expensive, and lazy, but IMHO there are some jobs that are worth leaving to the professionals. For me, both welding and bearings fall into that category.

 

Now, all may not necessarily be lost - I needed half a sill cut out, a new one fabricated, welded in, waxed inside, primed, painted and schutz'd for the last MOT on the Nissan. I was expecting £300. The bill came in at £70 (yes seventy) - you may be surprised. Potentially even pleasantly.

[twosmoke300]

With the bearing some heat and thought is your friend

[sierraman]

I'd love to learn how to weld, how much are you looking at for a second hand MIG? Can you read a book and pick it up from there?

[stripped fred]

Re the bearing, if it's stubborn then may the lord have mercy on you. We needed a bearing doing for the last MOT the Kia had, 'ah ha' said the MOT man, 'tis but a simple job'

 

He removed the hub, and attempted to press the offending bearing out. 25 tonnes later the hub distorted and had to be thrown, bearing and all, into the scrap metal pile in the corner. A new hub was liberated from a scrapper and the bearing came out without drama.

 

Unfortunately, until you have the little bastard off the car and in front of you (in a press) there is simply no way of telling if its going to pop right out, or refuse to budge and knacker the whole hub trying.

 

I know it's expensive, and lazy, but IMHO there are some jobs that are worth leaving to the professionals. For me, both welding and bearings fall into that category.

 

Now, all may not necessarily be lost - I needed half a sill cut out, a new one fabricated, welded in, waxed inside, primed, painted and schutz'd for the last MOT on the Nissan. I was expecting £300. The bill came in at £70 (yes seventy) - you may be surprised. Potentially even pleasantly.

Good advice there. I think I'm going to try and find the money this time and hope for a not too painful bill. I've already agreed to move the carpets out of the way for the two main bits of welding and he said he could bond a small plate over the 50p size hole in the floorpan if I don't want to remove all the carpets. I'll have a think on that one... I only have 2 weeks then I'll have to add another mot bill on top so can't faff about too much.

[dave21478]

With the bearing some heat and thought is your friend

 

This is true, and if you can weld....even better. Knock the bearing to bits and run a bead of weld part way round the inside face of the race thats left in the hub and when it cools it will literally just fall out.

[stripped fred]

My father taught me to weld with an arc when I had the 1300. I can make passable welds. They look shit but are functional and withstand twatting with a hammer.

 

Even now after years of practice my MIG skillorz are crap and welds look like pigeon poo.

I remember my dad arc welding all sorts of old triumph, scimitar and ford cars. I also remember him getting arc eye or whatever it's called. That didn't look fun.

[Dead_E23]

My first attempt at MIG welding was intended to be sticking a 50p-sized MOT patch on a Range Rover inner sill, but there was lots more rot than expected and I ended up fabricating nearly all of one sill, half of the other and a good bit of floor.  

 

I got reasonably confident with the welder by the end of it (still not great, but ok-ish), but the fabrication bit remained difficult.  Cutting and bending steel to roughly the right shape is fairly achievable - but if things are only roughly the right shape you end up with a rough-looking repair.  

 

Fortunately, a good coating of Schutz stonechip conceals all kinds of horrors.

[fordperv]

I found learning mig quite easy, the best tip i can give you is get an auto darkening mask it makes life much easier, then it's just practice, practice, practice, as said destruction test your practice welds

[Taff]

only one thing to add about MIG welding. MIG thrives on CLEAN, SOLID metal.

 

If you can learn to weld mud to fibreglass, you will quickly become the richest man in Britain

[forddeliveryboy]

Is this MR2 your only car on the road? If not, spend some money on a welding machine and gas and learn to weld. Once you feel you've mastered it, take your time and repair the sill, cutting away all the corroded steel. Buy a s/h hub assembly if they're cheapish and simply bolt on, buy a bearing and use the welder to shrink the old race out of the original hub then have someone push in the new.

 

Always better to invest in equipment and skills than paying garage bills!

[BavarianRetro]

"........ the perfect ones are always just to the side of the bit you meant to weld or on a bit that didn't need welding.

 

 

Very true and exactly my recollection of first using a MIG instead of gas 25 years ago, but an adjustable auto darkening helmet should put a stop to it nowadays.

 

 

 

 

only one thing to add about MIG welding. MIG thrives on CLEAN, SOLID metal.

 

If you can learn to weld mud to fibreglass, you will quickly become the richest man in Britain

That is the best piece of mig welding advice you'll get. Once you've set the power and wire speed, clean solid metal is more important than any technical ability.

[Al Bundy]

Give me a shout if you want it doing properly,im based in Leicester

[Inspector Morose]

Gas FTW. I leaned from a fellow (with a knitted tie, of course) who could gas weld rust to rust. Legendary. Once you can gas, you can mig. Arc on the other hand, I've only ever been able to arc thicker stuff ( Land Rover rears. Tramcar gear casings etc)

Look at the best mig sets you can afford. Then add a bit and go for them. Then practice, practice, practice.

[cort1977]

I did a welding course in the evenings years ago at aberdeenshire ag college. It didn't cost much considering the instructor had about 40 years shipyard experience. Well worth it if you're going to run shite.

[KruJoe]

Once you've got your patch on, and strong enough to withstand your hammer-twat test, get it plastered over with Tetrosyl or some other gloopy black underseal. I mean really trowel it on (warmed up helps), then smooth it over with an old paint brush. It'll make your slightly shit-looking welds look like a proper pro's smooth, even beads.

 

It hides a multitude of learner's sins. If you're happy it's strong enough, and the MOT man thinks it looks well enough, then you're winning.

[stripped fred]

Give me a shout if you want it doing properly,im based in Leicester

Sent you a pm.

[PiperCub]

FYI - if you want to learn to weld, try your local FE college, they often do 'night-school' (or whatever it's called these days) in welding. Lengths of course & content will vary. Once you have the basics, buy yourself a MIG and carry on practicing.

 

I did a car bodywork course about 20 years ago, it was 30 weeks of Saturday mornings, it covered basic metal bashing/fabrication, welding (MIG, MMA & gas) and spraying/prep. It cost less than £250, covered all but paint and was the best value course of any description I've ever done.

[stripped fred]

FYI - if you want to learn to weld, try your local FE college, they often do 'night-school' (or whatever it's called these days) in welding. Lengths of course & content will vary. Once you have the basics, buy yourself a MIG and carry on practicing.

 

I did a car bodywork course about 20 years ago, it was 30 weeks of Saturday mornings, it covered basic metal bashing/fabrication, welding (MIG, MMA & gas) and spraying/prep. It cost less than £250, covered all but paint and was the best value course of any description I've ever done.

I'm going to look for a course. I think that would be easier than trying to teach myself. Thanks.