Rover P4 tdi 27/03 meeting a friend

[DS20]

It's taken me ages to get around to this, but better late than never...anyways, a little while ago, I went to the south of the county to meet cros and buy his diesel-converted P4.  Nice chap, interesting vehicles to look at, and a completely charming P4 to drive away in

 

Here are some recent pictures of the Rover in action: 

 

 

 

It has been foggy.  

 

 

 

Trying to fit in with the younger generation:  

 

 

 

 

In Sleaford.  It's not an optical illusion - the P4 really is the same height as an old Jeep Cherokee.  It's like a 1960s saloon-crossover-thing - speedbumps are not overly concerning - look at the depth on those sidewalls.  

 

 

 

 

It's a lovely thing to drive; probably noisier than a petrol model, but goes very respectably indeed.  Overtaking is possible, and dual-carriageways aren't a terrifying blur of passing trucks.  And it's up there with the DS for generating conversations and (positive) comments from total strangers

 

 

Anyways, work is calling, so better go - but will keep the Rover-TDI-thread updated from time to time.  

[MarvinsMom]

they are a proper, proper rover, very distinctive coachwork and so lovely inside.

 

an old boy down our road had one of these for the weekend and a "new" 75 for everyday use.

 

sadly he now has a fiat panda

 

i so have to have one of these of my own one day.

 

top buying sir.

[vulgalour]

These really are gorgeous things, I could imagine a diesel powered one being a perfect daily hack.

[xtriple]

When I first met my (soon to be) stepfather, he had a Rover P4 110 in battleship grey. It was bloody old then and properly 'just hanging on' by the skin of its radiator grilles teeth. I thought it was wonderful. It sounded lovely with that inlet over/side exhaust engine and it was soooooo smooth. Loved the leather interior even though it was scarred and torn. Sitting in the back was great.

 

However, it had several 'failure to proceed' moments, loads of failure to stop moments  and several instances where the brakes would apply themselves randomly and the car would just grind to a halt! Sitting patiently waiting for the servo to relax its grip on whatever brakes it had while parked in the middle of the road while every passer-by  glared or shouted abuse, was, often fraught as the old man used to get a tad heated and shout words of encouragement at the poor old thing.

 

Brian (my step father who was 'very posh') also taught me about 'midnight auto spares' when we went in the middle of the night to rob a load of brake bits from an abandoned Mini parked outside a service garage. I was lookout...

 

We didn't get caught and so I used to beg and plead to 'do it again' whenever the car broke down!

 

He loved that old car and had owned it for decades (seriously!) and the day it made its final journey was one filled with emotion... of joy as he drove away in his new P5B coupe!

[purplebargeken]

Lovely things. Bloody rust though and the interiors can cost a fortune to bring up to decent order.

 

Nice though and I expect the diesel conversion gives it bags of character. Nice. 

[DS20]

Some brief thoughts about driving this one.  The big difference between this and the other members of my fleet is in the steering department; it needs much more concentration and far more in the way of minor inputs to keep the car in a reasonably straight line.  Even though its design and that of the DS come from a similar era - P4 first sold in 1949, DS in 1955 - the difference in steering feel and accuracy is decades apart.  The P4 is more like a series Land Rover, or even my mk1 Range Rover in this regard.  Possibly having a separate chassis is a factor.  Even though steering the P4 requires more attention than I'd expected, it is far more planted on the road than I'd thought.  The steering is unassisted, therefore the steering wheel is enormous.  It is also made of Bakelite, or something similar for added WIN.  Seriously, it's a lovely wheel to hold - nothing like the mushy, over-padded tiny wheels that most modern cars use - I'm looking at YOU, M-Sport BMWs.  The route between Grimsby and Lincoln (minor roads to Caistor, then A46) is my favoured road to try to get a feel of how a vehicle handles, as it has a mixture of tight bends, a couple of twisty sections, a straight bit, and a hilly bit (yes, there is a hill in Lincolnshire), and the P4 can cope with this route at the same sort of speed that I might expect from a mid-range modern hatchback, although if I'm honest it feels comfortable travelling a little more slowly.  But then it is over 50 years old.  Regardless, I've yet to find the ragged edge of the car's handling, and based on the similarity of steering feel to a series L-R it wouldn't surprise me if extreme cornering led to some sort of four-wheel-drift rather than heavy under- or oversteer.  I hope there won't be an update on this, accompanied by a photograph of the car in a hedge.  

 

Brakes.  These are surprisingly effective.  The pedal needs a good shove to inaugurate retardation, but once the signal has been rung down to the engine-room the car stops sharply.  I had to do an emergency stop in Lincoln on Friday, stopped rather more quickly than I was expecting, and far more quickly than the driver of the car behind was expecting.  I nearly had a Chrysler Cruiser-thing in the boot.  Once you've adjusted to the amount of pressure needed on the pedal, all is good.  I imagine switching between this and the DS would be an interesting* exercise.  

 

The suspension sorts out bigger bumps, long-wave undulations in the road, bigger potholes, and speed bumps really effectively.  It's not magic-carpet-rivalling (I've never driven a Jag XJ40 and would love to), but it's far from agricultural and unrefined.  I imagine that the tyres, with their super-deep sidewalls, help a lot with this.  Broken road surfaces, where the very top layer of last year's blown-over surface dressing has partially failed, present the P4 with a bigger problem.  This sort of road surface makes itself felt through the steering wheel, and to a lesser degree through the whole body of the car.  It's a shame that we have a LOT of this sort of road surface around here.  

 

I've not driven any other P4s, so I don't know how the Land Rover TDI engine compares with the six-cylinder petrol this one had when new.  It's probably much noisier.  As is, this one is quite noisy around town, and still audible but not deafening on the open road.  It helps that I love the sound of L-R TDI units  It pulls really well, with a pleasing touch of turbo whistle, just letting you know it's there.  This isn't the car for drag-racing, but neither is it a rolling roadblock, holding up the rest of the world.  It's noticeably quicker than the DS, and quicker than some of the modern cars I've had in the past.  Like the Hi-Torq Corsa B that I detested, for instance.  Hills aren't a problem, and neither is passing slow traffic.  It doesn't overheat, even in very heavy traffic (anyone tried to drive out of Lincoln up Canwick Hill recently?).  

 

The massively-long gearstick is taking some getting used to (fnar), as is the absence of synchromesh on first gear.  As long as the gear-changing isn't hurried, it's a pleasing thing to use; and I'd say that while the overdrive *may* have been optional when the car was new, it is in fact a necessity, not an option, certainly with this diesel engine.  There isn't a rev-counter, so I can only go on gut feeling with this one.  

 

What isn't left to personal opinion is the fuel economy.  I doubt that the original 2.6-litre engine would often better 30mpg, while this one has been giving 45mpg on average, which is ACE.  

 

The interior is a comfortable place to be.  The seats are relatively upright, which contrasts with a lot of more modern vehicles, but in combination with the large areas of glass all around gives a good view of the world around.  The rear-view mirror is curved at either end, giving a slight fish-eye effect and helping to lessen the blind spots, which is altogether a Good Thing as the wing-mirrors, actually mounted on the front of the front wings, seem to be a million miles away and offer a far-too-small view of what's behind.  For the sake of my wellbeing and inner equilibrium, I might move these to the doors as changing lanes on dual-carriageways is more exciting* than it should be.  Age and wear have taken their toll on the outside of the front seats, meaning that the occupants end up leaning towards the doors.  I'm not sure if it's my imagination, but the floorpan seems to slope towards the outside of the car, too.  With the front seat set far back enough for me, leg room in the rear is adequate rather than excellent; and head room is ace.  It wouldn't surprise me if Rover designed this car to be accessible for those wearing bowler hats.  

 

Heating and demisting are...well...better than the DS.  That, however, isn't setting a desperately high bar.  Looking on the bright side, it's far better than on an MGB GT that a friend had for several years, in that the P4 allows for the driver to adjust the heating level without stopping the car and clambering into the bonnet.  And it's possible to drive the P4 in the rain without having to stop every mile to wipe the windscreen and side glass free of condensation.  So, not up there with the Saab's overengineered heating and ventilation, or the Range Rover's ability to get from stone cold to normal operating temperature in under a mile, but not cataclysmically abysmal either.  I imagine that this level of provision would have been entirely adequate and reasonable when this P4 was born in the early '60s.  The boot isn't as big as you might think from the car's outside appearance.  This is because there is a spare-wheel 'slot' at the bottom of it (I'll have to take a picture.  It's hard to explain.), and because the floorpan curves up to clear the rear axle.  Probably there's only room for one body in the boot, but then in the early '60s crims used mark 2 Jags, didn't they, and not Rovers?    

 

People seem to love the way the P4 looks - and it looks way different to anything else on the roads.  I've had a number of people come up to me the car and tell me it that their parents / uncle / aunt had one back in the day, and how much they like it.  There've also been about a dozen children drag their parents over for a closer look and to ask questions like 'is it Victorian, mister?' (answer: no), and 'is this EVEN OLDER THAN YOU, MUMMY?' (answer: yes, although so far none of the parents has found this a flattering comparison.  Can't think why.)  The only slightly negative reaction has been from a couple of repmobiles driven by people desperate to pass the ancient car.  Like the Ford Focus 'Sport' that took over a mile to overtake me on the Sleaford bypass.  That could be their normal driving mode, though.  

 

 

Verdict after a couple of months mixed use: 50-year-old-car is pleasing to use as an every-day vehicle.  I genuinely didn't think this would be so.  

[captain_70s]

Looks like a fantastic old barge. With the TDI lump fitted I'd imagine it'd be well up to the task of daily motoring with a touch of class.

 

I certainly wouldn't mind one cluttering up my driveway!

[oman5]

that is full of WIN.

[forddeliveryboy]

and 5000% better than any old Dubber bus fitted with the other TDi. Daft question perhaps, but how fast will it go?

[garethj]

My Defender had the 200 Tdi engine and it's really a winner, it always gave 30-32mpg and had a nice amount of pull when on boost.  No revcounter in that either, but ears and a small amount of mechanical sympathy tell you when to change up.

 

Have you considered a boost pin?  Get a Morgan Hill one, not an iffy copy.

[gordonbennet]

Cracking motor, never seen one with a Diesel lump before.

 

The 6 pot petrol was inaudible on tickover, really i mean you wouldn't know if it had stopped until the lights changed and you went to pull away.

 

 

 

A short tale, back in my misspent youth i spotted a P4 sticking out the top of years of undergrowth in the middle of a field, went and looked at it, its sitting on a trailer fully stripped out for banger racing (already been used in couple of meets too by the damage), trailer tyres had perished away it had been there for years, a small spinney grown up through it.

I negotiated with the farmer and bought the lot, car and trailer, stuck some tyres on it and towed it back with me MK3 Zodiac.

 

Put some petrol in it and connected the jump leads and it fired up first touch settling down to that silent vibration free sixer purr.

 

I'd like to say at this point that i saved it, but no i used it successfully for the remaining banger season...in a way i regret bangering but those old cars were only going to be scrapped in their thousands anyway, working blokes like me didn't have the money nor the space to store possible future classics.

[jonny69]

they are a proper, proper rover, very distinctive coachwork and so lovely inside.

 

Yeah, this. From that era when Rovers were massive and luxury. Always had a soft spot for the P4.

[dollywobbler]

Brilliant. Your main steering difference is that the P4 uses a steering box, so it'll never have the accuracy of rack-and-pinion in the Citroens. That said, Rover did a bloody good job with steering boxes. I always found my P6 an absolute joy to steer. Sod power steering. This sounds an awesome bit of kit though. Many JALUS.

[oman5]

Is it still running its original gearbox and diff? I just wondered if perhaps that would be a bit too low geared for a slower revving Diesel engine.

[holbeck]

When I was a wee lad there were lots of these still around, but they never appealed.

 

But now I'm approaching 50, I can really appreciate what a handsome car they are. Top bombing Sir.

[M'coli]

I wouldn't have thought the original petrol engine was much of a high-revving buzzbomb - I'm guessing a rev limit of 5-5.5k - so this shouldn't be too undergeared.

[cros]

I wouldn't have thought the original petrol engine was much of a high-revving buzzbomb - I'm guessing a rev limit of 5-5.5k - so this shouldn't be too undergeared.

Sadly the P4's seem very undergeared especially without overdrive. My current one has a freewheel instead of overdrive and is getting very busy by 50. I changed the diff from 4.3 to 3.54 but now its sluggish as hell- only 75 hp. Such a weighty engine, so little power. It will get an Ital engine to perk it up and make it top shite. Not joking.

[Skizzer]

Some brief thoughts about driving this one...

 

Great write-up, really enjoyed reading that 

[vulgalour]

I'm so jelly I'm wobbling.

[rml2345]

Excellent write up. Unfortunately I now want a diesel powered Rover P4 as it just sounds like joyous everyday transport.

[Rocket88]

Ref sloping floor........they all do that sir.............sticking a spacer on the outer edges of the seat runners works..........

[anonymous user]

Absolutely stunning mode of transport, I want one.

p.s. the boot must be smaller than I thought, my great-uncle had one and I distinctly remember him driving it into a field and letting a newly bought calf out of the boot, it must have been a small calf.

[scruff]

Yes!!!!!! This is a winner in all aspects, I have to say, I can just picture you in it as well!

 

We should meet up for some 50s Roverness mutual perving 

[Angrydicky]

Lovely looking car! I don't really like diesels myself, but if the conversion makes the car quick and reliable enough for you to want to use it daily, then excellent!

 

My Victor came from Grimsby, if I ever take it 'home' then I'd like to see this!

[Shep Shepherd]

Very cool car. Do you have any photos of the engine bay?

[fred]

Aye wonderful cars my best pal has one, a 95 bench seats comfortable as any armchair

 

and the whiff of leather and wood is just ohhhhhhhh....

lovely lovely cars

[DS20]

and 5000% better than any old Dubber bus fitted with the other TDi. Daft question perhaps, but how fast will it go?

 

 

I've not got beyond 80, partly because of the nearest dual carriageway that isn't the A180 (it has a truly vile road surface) is 30 miles away at Lincoln, partly because there was enormous wind noise at that point and the steering was VERY approximate, and partly because I never go faster than that anyway.  70mph seems more comfortable, both for me and for the car.  

[DS20]

 

 

Have you considered a boost pin?  Get a Morgan Hill one, not an iffy copy.

 

It's tempting, but the car has a standard P4 gearbox and I'd worry about putting more torque through it without turning the 'box into a consumable item  

 

If I start tweaking the engine, I'll bear in mind your advice, though, re the boost pin  

[DS20]

Is it still running its original gearbox and diff? I just wondered if perhaps that would be a bit too low geared for a slower revving Diesel engine.

 

Original gearbox, but differential with longer ratios.  I think I remember being told that the diff has Range Rover gearing, but cros is the one who knows the details (as he did the engine transplant).  Overall, gearing works well - but I wouldn't want to be without the overdrive.  

 

 

Ref sloping floor........they all do that sir.............sticking a spacer on the outer edges of the seat runners works..........

 

Thanks  I'll look into that one, as there is the slightly disconcerting feeling that I'm about to fall off it!  

 

 

Yes!!!!!! This is a winner in all aspects, I have to say, I can just picture you in it as well!

 

We should meet up for some 50s Roverness mutual perving 

 

Thanks  And I like the sound of meeting up for '50s Rover-centric admiration  

 

 

Lovely looking car! I don't really like diesels myself, but if the conversion makes the car quick and reliable enough for you to want to use it daily, then excellent!

 

My Victor came from Grimsby, if I ever take it 'home' then I'd like to see this!

 

Of course it'd be a shame if all / most P4s had engine swaps from petrol to diesel - for originality if nothing else - but having one that is more than happy in normal driving, and economical enough not to make me wince at the thought of longer trips is really good.  

 

If you are ever up this way, do let me know - tea or coffee and Rover tours are available.  

 

 

Very cool car. Do you have any photos of the engine bay?

 

 

Not as yet, but more (and better) photographs of the car are on the 'to do' list  

 

 

Edit: 

And it seems that I've worked out the multi-quote thing.  Only taken a few hundred posts.  

[DS20]

For no particularly good reason, I had thought that my P4 would be the only one for some distance around.  However, it turns out that another one lives less than a mile from here, and that it has the same colour scheme - and this afternoon, it came to visit