Tell me about: Shite 4X4s

[Pillock]

Right, so storage is sorted and I'm wondering what to put in it. As the sun is starting to come out, it seems an ideal time of year to buy a 4x4 (because I'm stingy; about October I'll start asking about cabriolets)

 

I'm pretty sure I'm right in thinking a proper LR won't go in the lock-up, and neither will a Discovery. Too tall. And also, both of those seem out of my price range for a good'un (although Discoveries are borderline). So I'm firmly into shite, unloved, iffy offroaders. I'm perusing eBay but realising I know nothing about these vehicles.....

 

Freelander. Early ones seem to go for my kind of money (£5-600) but there's a surprising number with the prop removed - is this genuinely for economy reasons like so many suggest, or is it more likely to be the 4WD system is buggered and they're covering it up? Also, a few months ago I'd have had a go at a HGF jobbie but Boll's recent episode with his 25GTI just refusing to get fixed has made me think twice. 

 

 

Vitara. Hard to ignore the image problems, are they any good off-road? I notice a lot of weekend mud warriors seem to use them but not in standard form. Also, plenty on t'Bay with slightly less head gasket than originally specced with - common problem here too? SJ410s seem to have all been snapped up and they want daft money now.

 

 

Frontera. I know RuffGeezer has one for sale here which I'm not ignoring, but in general are they good? I'd probably prefer a Sport 3door for the removable back, that looks a good laugh. Any problems? Most of 'em seem to have the 2.0 Cavalier lump which doesn't offer too many issues IIRC.

 

 

Anything else to consider? It would get actual use on the scout campsites of Leicestershire but also I want it as a weekend plaything. I'm not going to rule out a bit of greenlaning but don't want to turn into the characters from the Fast Show just yet so perhaps I'll stick to zooming through puddles and splashing small children.

[dollywobbler]

Freelanders have a fancy diff to send power to the rear axle. This f*cks up, so people fit a blanking plate and remove the rear prop. A friend bought one, but looked at loads. Some sellers didn't even realise there was no rear prop! Shiter's choice is the old XEDi, which uses the Rover L-Series engine. Agricultural but pretty hardy.

 

Vitara. Rot problems, but good little trucks. Sadly, a lot of suffered at the hands of the chequer plate brigade. Will blow head gaskets. Quite impressively so, as a friend discovered.

 

Fronteras are bouncy but fun (short wheelbase) or thirsty/slow (long wheelbase). Petrols are good, diesels a very mixed bag - 2.3 is glacial, 2.5 is VM four-headed monster, 2.8 pick of the lot, later 2.2DTI - out of shiter's reach. Rot the issue again.

 

Ford Maverick/Nissan Terrano. Very capable in the rough stuff and mine fitted in my single garage. Just. Petrols cheap, but lacking torque. Diesels popular, but they're still cheap. Sills and floors rot out. LSD as standard.

 

Isuzu Trooper. Agricultural but tough.

 

Lada Niva. Getting hard to find now, but they're a lot of fun. But very agricultural.

[eddyramrod]

Unloved and iffy?

It isn't often you'll hear me say this about something American, but... avoid.  If you did want a Chevy Blazer, go for a proper one, early 70s; but then it isn't going to fit in your storage.  Don't get one of these late 90s euro-sized jobbies, they just aren't good enough.

Suzuki Vitara seems like a good call, we had a Samurai years ago (I know, not the same) and in different circumstances that would have been a right laugh.

Frontera gets a lot of derision here, but it's noticeable that several members have or had one, or maybe more than one, so they must be doing something right.  DW had a Ford Maverick within recent memory, and I'm sure will be along to regale you with tales of greenlaning it; also available as Nissan Terrano II for those without a Blue Oval fixation.

 

Good luck!

 

Edit: he's already done so!

[Barry Cade]

Freelander. Just Don't.

 

Vitara- surprisingly good, just watch for rust.

 

Frontera. Good, but I think the petrols are a bit underpowered/lack torque/burn oil like it's coming out the ground.

 

Sportrack- see Vitara.

 

Tata safari- See Freelander

 

Trooper- Niiice

 

Shogun Pinin. GDi..-. See Freelander

 

Fourtrack.- Traktor.

 

I like SWB 2.5 Mk1 Shoguns me.

[twosmoke300]

Maverick and terrano 2.7 td is a good bet in my opinion. Have replaced defenders in my family for general towing duties. Just so much more reliable. Genuine parts prices will make your eyes water but loads of used spares about.

[dollywobbler]

Mk2 Shogun/Pajeros are worth a look, but you'd have to search a while for one that hasn't been run by an utter cheapskate who likes a bit of bling. They're good off road and often have a locking centre and rear diff. That said, 2.5 has a timing belt and no power, 2.8 suffers from weak timing chains, blown head gaskets and often cracked heads.

 

Daihatsu Terios should be taken more seriously than you might expect. Sportrak was a good call - I'd forgotten that one.

[hairnet]

id have said terious

 

or a rav 4 although early ones will have seen a welder and they didnt do diesel

 

jimny if ya dont need to carry stuff or people

 

would kia sportage do??

[red5]

Troopers rot for fun. Good running gear though.

 

Fronteras underrated - all swb ones hole the o/s/f sill by seat belt. Steal running gear from rotten troopers = win

 

2.0 8v tough but thirsty. Swb only. leaf or coil.

 

2.3 Dt will go for ever. Just slowly. lwb only. Bosch rotary pump Only in leafer flavour.

 

2.5 is VM bag of shit in swb or lwb - no idea, don't care. vm wank.

 

2.8 is trooper lump with better turbo/intercooler set up. Ace on fuel, loads of go. Easily tuneable. Unbreakable (mostly). Bosch rotary pump Coil.

 

All 'A' series.

 

B series is softer. 2.2 Dti wel documented transverse seals and pump ecu death. Fixable, but pricey unless you know where to go. Suspension bends.

 

Rest no idea except maverick/terrano - the ones I worked on exploded front hubs for a laugh.

 

obviously not biased to Fronteras. Both of my 2.8 swb I can't break. one on 144k, one on 167k

 

 

if you want a go in one I am trying to go to Welshfestâ„¢ in one. 

[wackywacerwill]

SJ's do seem to come at a premium these days and for good reason as they're bloody great off road and easy to work on too. Swap the axles under the springs for extra clearance to make the most of their light weight and simplicity. Pretty crap as a road car mind but if you keep looking the occasional one comes up at a decent price.

[Asimo]

Down here in herryfuddshire there are still an amazing number of Daihatsu Fourtracks still on the roads. Some look a bit rusty but many look v. clean. I don't know anything about them but they are clearly long lived.

 

. I have been told that the freeloader centre diff dies because, as it has a viscous coupling, the coupling overheats unless the rolling radius average of the front and rear axles is very closely matched. If not, say after different make of new tyres at one end followed by motorway drive = cooked centre diff

[gordonbennet]

Too high for your storage but 70 series Landcruiser, both 3 and 5 door is as tough as they come, 93 to 95 best as they gained the 3 litre lump, a 4Runner (lots of grey equivalents about) with the 3 litre 4 pot Diesel is a superb machine and might be low enough.

Early Colorados (70 series replacement) coming down in price now too.

[dollywobbler]

Here's why Mavericks are good. Good rear suspension travel (sod all up front) and LSD magic.

 

I had no problems with the auto-locking front hubs on mine. Interior build quality was surprisingly poor though. Very shoddy.

[twosmoke300]

The swb mavericks are surprisingly small too. Especially the length of them .

[Ghosty]

Maverick - also available as the Nissan Terrano!

 

I was gonna suggest the Niva, Fourtrak and SJ.

 

Oh, and the Fiat Panda 4x4 Sisley!

 

A Nissan Patrol is probably too big, but how about a Hilux pickup? They can rot though.

[red5]

Whoops, forgot Shoguns.

 

Early ones do rot.

 

2.3  rev like a bastard and crack heads.

 

2.5 less revs, less head cracking.

 

Mechanical stuff tough/easily fixable (spent 8 years on them from apprentice upwards  )

 

Mostly all gone/thin on ground locally. Coil stuff better ride, less bouncy etc.

 

V6 a right hoot but thirsty.

 

Never liked the next generationones or subsequent models. Or change of any sort me.  

[red5]

Down here in herryfuddshire there are still an amazing number of Daihatsu Fourtracks still on the roads. Some look a bit rusty but many look v. clean. I don't know anything about them but they are clearly long lived.

 

. I have been told that the freeloader centre diff dies because, as it has a viscous coupling, the coupling overheats unless the rolling radius average of the front and rear axles is very closely matched. If not, say after different make of new tyres at one end followed by motorway drive = cooked centre diff

 

Fairly sure the viscous coupling seizes, then explodes diff.  Probably.

 

Either way...my first two experiences of working on Freeloaders were hgf followed by prop explosion. Lovely.

[red5]

Ps - if you buy a Niva I have the workshop bulletins for everything, including aligning transfer box. 

 

And an oil filter in a Ladaâ„¢ box.

[Doctormop]

Preparing to be mocked and ridiculed here but................................................................ Honda CRV, pre 2001 type?

Seem to be surprisingly capable off road and pretty bulletproof in general,

[Lacquer Peel]

Hey VM engines are great.

 

Anyway, AMC Eagle with a 6-cyl VM diesel.

[scruff]

What about an old Subaru?

[Justin Case]

 

Preparing to be mocked and ridiculed here but................................................................ Honda CRV, pre 2001 type?

Seem to be surprisingly capable off road and pretty bulletproof in general,

I was just about to suggest this. I was parked next to a very tidy S Reg one outside the chippy earlier this evening, I didn't know that they made them this early. They are quite compact small inside; a dolls pushchair nearly filled the boot, but I assume that would not be an issue with the Leicestershire scouts

[phil_lihp]

Jimnys are the spiritual successor to the SJ and supposed to be excellent off road. CR-Vs are great and uber-reliable all-rounders but they're not a 'proper' off roader, they have a clever system which sends drive to the rear wheels when the fronts slip but no LSD or low range.

[scruff]

Jimnys are good little wagons but not quite in shite territory price wise, I tried to find one for the missus recently but struggled. There is also naff all room inside them which might be a problem for scouty type stuff?

 

I've had a Niva (like a baby early Rangie without the V8 and better made) and a SJ413 (like a Series 1 Land rover with 5 gears, brakes and a decent heater). I'd love a SJ van. Haven't seen one for years.

[Barry Cade]

Owning a Freelander is like having the shits and not being near a toilet. You'll just be running around holding your arse in both hands knowing you'll end up with crap all over the floor.

[phil_lihp]

^^ Quote of the year!

[Pillock]

Holy cow, that's a lot of food for thought. Thanks guys

 

Some stuff had dropped straight off my radar so I'll be bunging on an eBay alert for Terrano-Twos and Mavericks. I think they're pitched about right for what I need, something capable-ish off-road but I'm not going to be scaling Everest in it. Potentially something like the soft-4WD in the CRV would be OK, it's just going to be for crappy unmade roads and slippy slidey muddy hills.

 

Cargo space isn't too much of an issue, for scouty purposes there's a trailer parked over the road.

 

Subaru.... oooooh. Yes. As in a battered Forester, not an Impreza

Fourtrak I'd completely forgotten about, as with the Sportrak.

[Pillock]

(Multiple) points taken about Freelanders. I will now view them with the same look on my face as when I see the cat has vomited on the carpet.

[Ghosty]

CRVs exist as far back as N-reg on import.

Oh, and RAV4s?

[Pillock]

 

Ooooooh. I likey. £260 reserve not met right now.

 

 

 

Surprisingly nice, this little beaut is £500 but no test and the seller seems to not really give a chuff about putting it through one, spares/repair.

[derek9213]

the terrano is a fantastic option, but check the gearbox before parting with cash, as well as rust as has been mentioned

 

one that hasnt had a mention and may well be an option is the toyota hi-surf mostly imports but it comes straight out of the hilux stable for bullet proof reliability