(F*cking) carbs!

[Jozza]

I generally prefer carbs- the simple engineering elegance of an SU or a down-draught Solex with two moving parts appeals to me. Having never had the joy* of running something with multiple carbs on a regular basis, all I can say is that they tend to work fine until something wears out, and rebuilding them once they reach that stage is delightfully simple.

 

Exceptions are those horrific Frankenstein creations from the 'Eighties when manufacturers tried to give carbs the benefits of fuel injection and ended up a system that had the disadvantages of carbs (inefficiency, poor running when cold) and fuel injection (complexity and and an impossibility to fix). I'm looking mainly at you, Pierburg, with your vacuum-operated autochokes and overrun lean-off mechanisms...

[Station]

I agree - carbs would be a bonus in the event of a massive nuclear attack.

The carb ran fine in my Whizzkid, and in my Micra, but that's two out of about 15 - 20 cars I've had with carbs.

 

I have been round numerous garages and nobody will even touch a carb, not even ones that have been going for decades, or a motorbike on that specialises in carbs!?

I found one - an Avis garage, but it turned out they assumed a carburettor was a throttle body, and I had a good conversation with the bloke before I realised he thought they were one of the same.

I can only get parts from Australia, and any attempt at getting rebuild kits from any motor factors is pointless, as proven by two of the staff searching for a 'car rebuild kit'.

 

+8 on that period of time where they bolted 'ECI' onto a carb, ie a Mitsubishi Starion. A carburettor with two injectors on top, one for primary and the other for secondary, just like a twin barrel carb. About 17mpg, and injectors that always got blocked.

 

[fire3500]

The problem there is that you've a plover stuck in the vent, and so as you're cranking the engine its tinysoft  feathered breast is taking a beating and it's shrieking "help, help"... but in plover. If you want rid of the noise you'll have to drown it. I recommend duck oil.

[Lacquer Peel]

Mechanical diesel injection FTW.

[Lacy]

Got these suckers fitted to my Jensen Healey....a pair of twin choke Dellorto 45's......they sound nice....much nicer than any efi....

 

[Barry Cade]

I would literally fiddle until it fell off.

[scooters]

Depends on the carb, and the health of the EFI system. If we're comparing a Solex 4AI 32/54 and a nice simple Bosch L Jetronic then the einspritzung wins hands down. But if it's an SU with a manual choke and half a dozen moving parts against some modern fly-by-wire eco management thing then give me the polished dome any day.

 

THIS!

 

EFI working is wonderful - EFI not working is an utter nightmare, at least with a carb you have a chance of getting it started. EFI usually means replacing half a dozen sensors!

[Barry Cade]

Whilst this would make me do "that" face and phone in sick.

 

[Station]

THIS!

 

EFI working is wonderful - EFI not working is an utter nightmare, at least with a carb you have a chance of getting it started. EFI usually means replacing half a dozen sensors!

 

Never had to replace a dozen sensors - usually do the paperclip thing (as opposed to timing light, colour tune, luck, etc), and it'll tell you!

[mat_the_cat]

Whilst this would make me do "that" face and phone in sick.

 

What about this?

 

[Junkman]

http://autoshite.com/topic/15742-newfangled-and-foreign-tosh/

[Bobthebeard]

Never had any real problems with fuel injection systems to be honest. Plenty of carb related 'failures to proceed' over the years. Having said that I usually* managed to fix the carb problems and wouldn't have a clue where to begin if the injection gubbins played up.

[pandamonium]

I am a cereal killer.

[explosive-cabbage]

For fuck sake!

 

What is wrong with you guys??

 

I had to check I had logged into Autoshite not Autodata!

 

Who keeps voting Injection over carbs? Lets forget those nonesense early 90s over-complicated carbs, carbs in general are SO much easier if you don't have mega mulah to throw at a restoration.

I have had the Lada Niva 1.7SPI for 20 months and I still can't work out the 'simple' Bosch SPI system. It runs like a bag of shit and won't rev high without dying, and the check fault light is more or less allways on.

 

Carbed cars are way more reliable IMHO, easier to fix too. The fancy carb gave up up on the Samara due to a faulty diaphragm, I just stuck a Pug 1.4 Solex 32/34 Z2 carb on it. A couple hours work. HAPPY DAYS! When that goes... Rebuild kit for £30. When the Lambda sensor on the 1.7SPI Niva seems like it may be on the way out, it will cost me £60. And that might not even fix it, it could be a plethora of other shitty peices of Bosch electrical engineering bolted to that mechanically sound engine that will cause havoc.

 

I have had the joys of both*, guess which I'm voting for??

 

*Joys of one.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Carbs are SHITE, i reckon fuel injection is what makes a car into a reliable daily mile muncher, along with distributor less ignition.

 

its not fair to dismiss injection on the basis of some borscht-powered Russian knock-off effort for which parts and info are as rare as a mutha.

 

Compare any mid-80's onwards injected car with its carb equivalent, sprsh if its got a few miles on, there'll be no comparison!!!!

[Ratdat]

I think I've probably been spoilt somewhat with owning Datsuns. Despite being carb'd (and all have points too) they almost never go wrong. The only times I can think of where I had a carburettor problem was once in my old 160J SSS the brass floats in it's twin Hitachi SU-alikes developed tiny fatigue cracks and sunk causing huge flooding and I once had the top of a carb on a 180B rattle loose. Even the carb on my ol' Bluey estate never gives trouble and that's over 50 years old now. These old Hitachi and Nikki cars are probably about a good as carbs get I reckon. Even ones with autochokes are reliable. Of course there's still the downside that fuel consumption is higher than later EFi stuff but to be fair, they're not bad.

[Junkman]

The only car I can use at the moment has breaker point ignition and carbs, yes, two of them. It hasn't put a foot wrong since I own it, and most likely hasn't for the past 44 years, otherwise it likely wouldn't exist anymore. Cars with carbs I've owned outnumber cars with injection I've owned possibly by 10 to one. Not once did I have a FTP because of a carb fault, but many times because something was wrong with the injection system chaos.

I piss on everything with a 'check fault' light, because it's not a car, but a fucking computer that also drives on the rare occasions the computer allows it to.

Ideally the only electronics in my car are in my E-cigarette.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Admittedly most japanese carbs work extraordinarily well. When I am dissing carbs I've normally got some shitty solex or pierburg thing in the back of my mind.

[cort16]

If your running EFI you have one system to deal with no matter the number of cylinders. 6, 8 and 12 stuff you've got the same problem multiplied by X and they're all connected to each other and have to be in perfect balance otherwise it just doesn't work. My SD1 has the worst of both worlds having some shitety twin SU setup but with stepper motors controlled by the brain of a dermented weasel constantly cocking things up.

[Junkman]

Rip that shit out, replace it with a set of HS6es, and live happily ever after.

[alfetta]

For fuck sake!

 

What is wrong with you guys??

 

I had to check I had logged into Autoshite not Autodata!

 

Who keeps voting Injection over carbs? Lets forget those nonesense early 90s over-complicated carbs, carbs in general are SO much easier if you don't have mega mulah to throw at a restoration.

I have had the Lada Niva 1.7SPI for 20 months and I still can't work out the 'simple' Bosch SPI system. It runs like a bag of shit and won't rev high without dying, and the check fault light is more or less allways on.

 

 

I think Bosch Spi system  has a throttle pot and relies mostly on the lambda for accurate fuel metering. no map or air mass sensor.

 

I prefer injection but carbs are OK - except those crappy autochokes ford fitted....

[cort16]

Rip that shit out, replace it with a set of HS6es, and live happily ever after.

 

Wot from an MGB?

[Junkman]

Wot from an MGB?

 

From a P6.

[Minimad5]

Go carb shopping, and get Johnathan to knock you up a plate if needed = Simples

[New POD]

Oh for an SU......so simple...........so very simple..

[willswitchengage]

For fuck sake!

 

Late model carbs though... without wanting to get into any arguments   I don't see how this is simpler than a maf sensor and a single point injector!

 

P1040949 by willswitchengage, on Flickr

[explosive-cabbage]

Will, im slightly disappointed with you. I thought you would be a hero for my cause, but alas, you have joined the ranks of the enemy.

[anonymous user]

I'm undecided, over the years I have had carbs go wrong, stuck floats, blocked jets, split diaphragm, etc. but always got home. Fuel injection has usually been excellent apart from a VW Polo where I ended up on first name terms with the RAC.

 

My favourite carburettor story concerns the late John "Jumbo" Goddard (the man who built a twin-turbo eight litre Bentley special).

 

During a Bugatti Owners Club rally he had a problem with a holed float, over lunch he stripped the carb, removed the float and proceeded into the restaurant kitchen to boil the fuel out of the float. This went well, apart from the small explosion when the vapourised fuel ignited showering the prepared desserts with soot. Apparently his friendly "Merci" to the chef was not well received.

 

You wont get that with fuel injection.

[Des]

The later carbs became horrendously complex which was a conspiracy to get us all to accept injection, which seemed simple enough in comparison, to begin with, and then all hell broke loose with every manner of overcomplex computer, which I'm not convinced aren't actually spying on us.

In fairness, FI was pretty good until those fucking pikey bait cats got chucked under everything, and the function moved from efficiency to emission control.

[wuvvum]

I voted for carbs.  I've had far more carb-related running issues than EFI ones (although I have had several of the latter), but at least with a carb I can usually work out what's going wrong.  Apart from with the Solex on the Renault 6, which is a hateful piece of shit.