Renault 6TL "Crapaud"

[wuvvum]

Rev gauge definitely not needed - you can hear exactly how hard the engine is spinning.  Radio fairly pointless - see above.

 

Yours being a facelift model might have the slightly higher final drive ratio - mine's doing about 4,500 revs at 70.

[vulgalour]

I've seen some vids of them on the motorway, or whatever the French and Spanish equivalent is, and they seemed quite happy if a bit noisy, much like the occupants.  Can't imagine I'll be doing much motorway madness so it's likely to just be around town when you're not driving long enough or fast enough to worry about rev noise or radio.

[PhilA]

You could, if you so desired, probably fit a dual thermistor/bimetallic sender unit there and fit a remote temperature gauge whilst retaining the original "merde" light on the dash. Mine has both. Quite un-Renault, many gauges.

 

Phil

[vulgalour]

Made a bit more progress on the Renault today and intended to have all the front suspension rebuilt, mainly because recently the new shocks arrived.

 

For two reasons, the upper wishbone was removed from the car.  The first was that it should make getting the spot welds drilled out easier, the second that I thought it might make getting the shock out easier too.

 

With both upper wishbones on the bench drilling out the spot welds for one side was fairly easy and it was ready for the new ball joint in no time.  The other one, however, was the most difficult set of spotwelds and rivets I've ever had to remove.  It didn't matter how you went about it, it just didn't want to let go.  You can also see the lower passenger ball joint just to the left which was just a case of unbolting it, someone had replaced this many, many years ago and made my life a lot easier.

 

Strange heads though.  Rather than a hex bolt or, as in the case of all the new ball joints, screw-headed bolts (both flat and cross type) they were a smooth D shape which meant making use of some mole grips.

 

I'm going to replace all the 'bolts' that came with the new ball joints, I don't trust that they're up to the job in all honesty.  Threads pointing down because that matches what was on the car and seemed to fit better.  Upper wishbones refitted for now to make sure I don't lose any fixings, they're very easy to fit and remove really.

 

 

Mike managed to get the top nut off the shock on the passenger side but we couldn't get the bottom bolt out, there just seems to be too much tension on everything.  We'll figure it out.  On the driver's side I could get a spanner on the top nut of the shock but couldn't figure out how on earth Mike managed to move it on the passenger side, there seems to be just enough space to get the spanner in and nothing else.  I do hope I don't have to remove the inner wings to replace them.

 

Finally, one of the old brake pads was removed and tried against the new ones I'd bought.  Previous owner certainly got as much use as he possibly good out of the old pads.  As you can see I've managed, yet again, to buy the wrong part even with cross-referencing of brake type, car year and all the rest.  Trouble was, there were two brake pads listed wherever I looked for my car and nobody knew exactly which I needed so I took a gamble on the ones that looked right from memory... and got it wrong.  No great loss, it was only £8 delivered for a full set of pads and I'm sure I can rehome them along with all the other wrong bits I've bought.

[mouseflakes]

Renner were GR3.17 at fitting a multitude of different brakes to their cars in the 70s. Likelihood of buying the right part first time usually about 1 in 4.

[Parky]

Yup, an ex 1979 Renault 5 owner here who can totally vouch for that.

 

It's as if they just bought a shitload of bits from Bendix, Lockheed, and Girling one day and specified that under no circumstances were they to be interchangeable. Also to mix and match bits, just because it has Girling up front don't mean it's got Girling at the back....

[vulgalour]

Just as well everything is cheap, I'd despair if I had to pay normal classic car prices for parts, almost every item I've bought has been wrong, like mouseflakes says, it's about a 1 in 4 success rate on stuff so far.

 

Still, wuvvum has a 6 that needs things so I reckon I'm just gonna chuck all the things that don't fit mine his way and he can chuck what doesn't fit his someone else's way.  Circle of Shite.

[mat_the_cat]

Yup, an ex 1979 Renault 5 owner here who can totally vouch for that.

 

It's as if they just bought a shitload of bits from Bendix, Lockheed, and Girling one day and specified that under no circumstances were they to be interchangeable. Also to mix and match bits, just because it has Girling up front don't mean it's got Girling at the back....

 

This practice extended at least to the 90s too! We used to have a Megane coupe, and there were 3 types of disc listed for the 16v. Friendly factors let me have all 3, to speed up the job and I'd just bring back the wrong two. Nope, none of them fitted and I ended up buying a pair that were listed for the diesel!

[PhilA]

I still have to determine exactly what brakes mine has. The engine is assembled in the same fashion. "What bits do we have that we can fit together to make a 2.0 displacement engine but it's gotta be stroked for torque?", 1.7 parts, 2.0 parts, diesel specific parts. Documentation is something that happens to other marques.

 

Phil

[vulgalour]

Only the British are stubborn enough to maintain a French car, I'm sure of it.

[vulgalour]

Sort of a big update today because things are going quite well.  Over the hump of everything being in bits it's now the more pleasant task of putting the car back together again.  First job was to get the shocks swapped over, I was struggling to get tools and hands into the gap so Mike kindly got the old ones off and the new ones on.  The old ones were deader than a dead thing, all the rubber parts were just flat and deformed.

 

New ones fitted and everything went together fairly easily.  I couldn't get the bolts I wanted for the ball joints today because it's bank holiday Monday, but when I do get chance to get them I'll go round the car and replace the ten that I need to so that the ball joints are held in with proper bolts and not the rubbish that was supplied.

 

Of note is the outer driveshaft boot on this side.  The old spring wire clip thing had lost its spring and we didn't have a suitable clip in to replace it so I used a tie wrap instead.  As far as I know this is perfectly fine as a solution, it holds the boot in place and keeps dirt and oil on the correct sides of the rubber.  I'm going to order some new CV/driveshaft boot clips anyway but again, Bank Holiday Monday put paid to getting any today.

 

The temperature sender was reconnected, the bolt for it was even still in the head.  Bit of a bugger to do as access isn't great, but it's done.

 

 

Alternator fitted and new drive belts on too.  Couldn't fit the tensioner because I dropped the nut and it vanished, you wouldn't think it could, but it did.  I'll get a new nut, I didn't have any in stock.

 

 

Just plonked the radiator in the hole to keep it out of the way for now.  I've got some wires to connect, the radiator to flush and connect, and a new clutch cable to fit under the bonnet.  Once that's done I can actually test fire the engine, which I still haven't done.  I want everything to be right first and with the engine having lots of lovely oil in it I'm not worrying about it seizing or anything in the meantime.

 

Took the spotlights I was given apart to check them out.  They're past the first flush of youth but serviceable.  Used the Rover to provide power and they work perfectly fine, don't even need bulbs.

 

While the Renault has been in the unit drying out and being bashed about there's a lot of dirt appearing on the floor.  Quite a lot of it is in the rear of the bodywork so all of this will need a really good clean out.  I need to clean up and refit the mud flaps too, they're both fine it's just that one fell off and one has nearly fallen off.

 

Since I'm down to much smaller jobs now I started checking various little things.  I noticed the rear lights didn't look quite right, look at where the screw holes are in the passenger side lens.

 

That would be because it's a small back and the lens doesn't fit it.  I reckon this is an earlier style light cluster with a later lens bodged on top.  I'm seriously tempted to fit an early light lens this side just because.

 

The other side hasn't got extra holes, but it looked like there might not be  reflector fitted.

 

Nope, no reflector!  I can cut a new one from a spare Princess lens I've got, seems like a sensible solution to that problem.  I don't know where the old reflector has gone and this is the first time I've had the rear lights apart so I suspect it's not had one on this side for quite some time.

 

Because I had so few things left to put on the car now I cleared it out, put the rear seat back where it should be and put the mat back down.

 

Persuaded the driver's door card to sort of go back on.  I've got a better card on my spare door that I'll fit because it's the same colour and nicely aged.

 

What's left of the front mats were plonked in too.  I need to buy a scrap of carpet to redo the carpet bits, that shan't cost me much.

 

Loosely put the lower cowling back under the steering column, all the screws for it have gone missing.  I'm still trying to figure out what the neat rectangular hole in the side of the dashboard is for where those wires are coming out.  I haven't found any likely spare parts or switches for it, my suspicion is that someone had a fan over ride switch installed and have since removed it.

 

This is all that's left to go on the car now.

 

Loosely put the sill trims back on.  They really need a clean and some of the wire clips replacing.  I've got all the end caps too, they're in the boot.

 

The front end sits higher than it did, I'm sure of it, and is much firmer than it was since fitting the new suspension parts.  I didn't disturb the torsion bars so I hope it's just that it now sits at the normal height rather than it's sitting too high.

 

 

The wiper arms were removed - the easiest I've ever removed on any car - for when I test the electrics.  I don't want the wiper arms accidentally mangling things or themselves if there's anything wrong with the wiper motor.

 

Next big mechanical job is the exhaust and front brakes.  I have no idea if the master cylinder is any good and won't find out until the new brake pads arrive.  The discs I bought do appear to be the correct ones, we compared old and new before refitting the driveshafts.  I've brought the old headlining back to see if I've got enough fabric in stock to redo it and, since I want to take the windscreen out to cure the leak it strikes me as sensible to do the headlining at the same time if I can.

 

To my knowledge, for the MoT I only need the following, providing everything else I've fixed is good:

Headlight (sourced)

Throttle cable

Battery

Brake fluid (in stock)

Gearbox oil

Tyres

[mat_the_cat]

I still have to determine exactly what brakes mine has. The engine is assembled in the same fashion. "What bits do we have that we can fit together to make a 2.0 displacement engine but it's gotta be stroked for torque?", 1.7 parts, 2.0 parts, diesel specific parts. Documentation is something that happens to other marques.

 

I wonder if it's a result of a poorly managed 'just in time' parts inventory? You can imagine the factory regularly running out of bits, and in order to avoid stopping the production line and having workers sitting idle, they'd fit whatever they could, even if it wasn't correct to the model's build sheet.

 

Renaults variation of the lean manufacturing system - Just Too Late...

[ruffgeezer]

Bloody good job there Vulgs & Mike the mechanic.

 

It's come a long way...

 

[wuvvum]

That does look rather high at the front, but then it's only just gone back on its wheels - I often find light cars need a bit of a drive before the suspension settles down to its normal height.  The Innocenti certainly falls into that trap.

 

My 6 had been used on a farm before I bought it, and it was amazing the amount of crud I scraped / jetwashed out of the rear arches.  The problem is that there's no arch liner of any description, so the muck can splatter halfway up the C pillar.

 

I'm not sure that's an earlier rear light unit on the nearside.  The earlier style units were much more curved on the outer edge than the "facelift" units.  It is a bit strange that the lense doesn't seem to line up though...

[vulgalour]

There is no actual deadline for completion beyond getting it MoT'd this year.

 

I've also found the headlining material for this car after discounting some sober alternatives.  I've been hanging on to this rabbit fabric for years and it is exactly the right amount for the headlining.

[DeeJay]

Use that fabric and you'll go through batteries like anything.

[plasticvandan]

Those bolts are bloody long,as my trainer said when I was an apprentice, " I don't want any coat hangers on this job"

[jonathan_dyane]

I love this little car! Wish it was mine.

[JohnDeere]

Glad you managed to get the spotlights working . Really looking forward to the finished result...

[vulgalour]

Those spotlights literally needed plugging in, why they weren't on the Prelude escapes me.  They're not very bright, I'm hoping a better connection than me waving the wires vaguely in the direction of a battery will help with that.  I don't really mind them being a bit dim and sad, matches everything else on the car.

 

Got the rabbit headlining laid out but it's a bit late to be sewing.  Easy peasy to make headlinings like this, it's the fitting of them that's the difficult bit.

[vulgalour]

There are certain milestones in any project, particularly one as brave/stupid as this one. Today, the milestone of lights was achieved, mostly. Mike was at the unit well before me today and called me just as I was getting stuff together to go in to let me know he'd already hooked up all the electrics, was I going in to help? Of course I was going in to help, and I was very surprised he'd already put all the wires where they needed to go.

 

Key in the ignition (which you turn towards yourself and is on the left of the column, counter intuitively) and see what happens. Oooh, an ignition light! We didn't have one of those last time we put a battery on the car.

 

Soon we realised that more work was going to be needed, connections cleaned up, bulbs replaced, that sort of thing. On trying the various controls we found the wiper motor works at speeds Slow and Not As Slow, the new wiper blades were fitted when the screen was cleaned and that proved entirely satisfactory. The blower fan works, and blows both Slow and Not As Slow, so again that was deemed adequate. Sidelights and front indicators did nothing, indicator switch did nothing, headlights worked on dip and main (twist stalk for sidelights, pull down once for dip and again for main), we tried the hazard switch and one indicator worked on the rear. Here's a boring video.

http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab16/volksangyl/Renault%206TL/20160504-02.mp4

 

Rear running lights work and, after the switch came unstuck, so did the brake lights. Reversing lights were found to be purely decorative, there's no wires at all running to them and by the looks of things never were on this car so the tailgate is probably off another car, perhaps the same donor as the other metallic green panels came off as this one was also metallic green (that's at least one front door, both inner front wings, one outer front wing for those keeping tabs). Here's an even more boring video.

http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab16/volksangyl/Renault%206TL/20160504-03.mp4

 

Also learned that the passenger side lens is the wrong type but that it's because there were two manufacturers offering the same rear light with a slightly different design. Info from R6 guru Mr Reno on that one. I'm going to replace just the lens as the one fitted is not only the wrong type but also appears to be from the wrong side of the car. After some jiggery pokery and a full compliment of new bulbs we had both indicators on the back working.

 

My brother fiddled bout with switches and switch cleaner and got the indicator stalk working and the telltale for it on the dash working. Also of note is that the dash lights illuminate, the hazard warning light works, the ignition telltale works. As yet there is no visible telltale for dip or main beam aside from a very dim red light on the far left so there's some investigation still to do on the instrument cluster, it may be bad connections, dead bulbs, or something of that sort. Odometer/Speedometer cable was also reconnected as that had come unseated at some point.

 

The interior light works, both door switches operate with the passenger one needing a bit of a clean as it's a little sticky.

 

Up front, everything but the driver's side indicator works. We've not found the reason for this yet, we suspect it's a bad connector or earth somewhere, we just ran out of time to investigate further. Used the old headlight bowl just to test the new bulbs and see that things worked. Rather than use the original golf ball type halogens I used a variant that has the same mounting bracket but is more like an H4 in shape. It ups the light output considerably without looking overly modern, a sensible modernisation. I've already forgotten what the bulb type is called.

 

The most frustrating thing to discover is that the starter motor appears to have died. We did bench test it a little over a year ago but didn't then bench test it again before refitting it to the car which we should have done. It can be resurrected by a local guy who won't charge a great deal and who did a great job on the starter motor for my Princess. So we didn't get to see if the car would run today which was a shame. We did learn the handbrake definitely works and appears to work quite well.

 

Only a short day on the car today but a very productive and rewarding one. Seeing so much spring to life after being dormant for such a long time was really exciting, probably disproportionately so.

[wuvvum]

Hazard lights and two-speed wipers?  Decadence!!

[purplebargeken]

Fantastic milestone. Having working electrical things is a huge plus point. 

 

I reckon another 4 weeks will see it going through an MOT. 

[Squire_Dawson]

Something worth noting. Have you removed the plugs and spun the engine round on the starter for a while to build up oil pressure and get it circulating? A few 6 second bursts would suffice.

[vulgalour]

Squire: I haven't, the starter is dead so I can't.

[purplebargeken]

I am presuming that you have already hit the starter motor with a big hammer.

[dollywobbler]

The light lens issue at the back surprises me not at all. Citroen used different manufactures for the Dyane indicators, and of course, the lenses are not compatible despite looking exactly the same. Bloody French.

[vulgalour]

PBK:  several times.  First time the BFO Hammer approach has failed me on getting a starter motor to work.

[purplebargeken]

I imagine it was not a French hammer. English hammers will not work on this starter motor.

[vulgalour]

I did mutter incoherently and shrug my shoulders emphatically at it in the hope that might help, but perhaps it detected my English accent?