Glad I'm not 17 anymore

[M'coli]

The best safety device a car could have would be a mobile phone signal blocker that only operated when the car was started...

[Junkman]

I don't like the idea of patronising and enslaving those juveniles yet more than they are already.

I'd much prefer that the concept, that freedom goes hand in hand with responsibility, should be brought back into the mainstream.

However, the idea the beloved guffament, which always knows what is good for us, is brooding on, is yet another step in an endless move towards more nanny state enslavement and less freedom and self-responsibility.

It's for the youngsters to decide. Do they want freedom and take the responsibility for it, or do they prefer to be ever more enslaved and domineered by big brother?

 

And another point I'd like to make, this one is for those total dimwits who think they are so supersmart and work for the car industry you and I have to bail out in regular intervals. They know who they are and I put up long enough with those clowns in my life.

 

When I did my test in the early 80s, a typical first car was a floorless 'trelle, a 2CV running on most of its cylinders, a Fiat 770 Jagst, a 1200 Beetle, a DKW 3=6, or - if you were on good terms with a farmer - a rusty Diesel fintail or /8 rolled matt black and fueled with raspberry juice. What all these cars had in common, was that they made it to 40mph within a morning and only topped 75 if the cliff was high enough.

 

Why is it, I ask, that nowadays every stinking little newfangled shitbox has to go to 60 in eight Seconds and top 130?

[Bren]

Kids come out of school with less of an education that most of us were given - dumbed down - does'nt even begin to cover it - it does'nt equip them for the realities of life.

 

Sat navs, mobile phones, far too many distractions for the average 18 year old, they can't concentrate for looking at some kind of display instead of concentrating on their driving.

 

I bet most 18 year old's could'nt read a map, but could programme a sat nav.

[plasticvandan]

my first car on passing my test aged 18 was a Reliant Rialto,having already got a full bike licence and been riding bikes (and still do) i was more than aware that driving it like a dick or too fast would result in an early grave,hence i didnt.

In my opinion the simple solution (or at least workable) is to restrict the engine size,like has been done with bikes for many years.

[Spiny Norman]

The best safety device a car could have would be a mobile phone signal blocker that only operated when the car was started...

 

100% THIS.

 

Trouble is, driving just isn't seen as a skill these days, and I don't think it's confined to the young, although they lack the experience to cover up their lack of skill and attention so they often get targeted because the stats aren't kind to them.

 

Most people are lazy fuckers and don't want to expend what few brain cells they have in something as dull as actually thinking about driving in case they're too tired to play Angry Birds when they get to work.

It's the same with everything now, we can shop online so we don't need to physically drag our arses round the supermarket, which was probably the only exercise a lot of them got, cooking for a lot of them is lobbing some salt and fat infested thing into the microwave and cracking open a bottle of cheap plonk, any form of thinking or basic living skills are to be avoided.

 

It's only going to get worse as cars get even better at protecting the stupid when they crash and providing all manner of distractions from the tiresome slog that is piloting their car through the crowded streets, and even offering internet in the car.

Whoever thought that was a good idea needs taking out and shooting in front of his family...

 

If we're going to raise the driving age let's do it properly and make it 25, and throw in some kind of basic intelligence and attitude testing, all in written English. That'll weed out the shirkers.

[Mr Livered]

Why is it, I ask, that nowadays every stinking little newfangled shitbox has to go to 60 in eight Seconds and top 130?

That's very true: modern cars are all really quick compared to what were used to 20 years ago. I don't think Ford make anything as slow as my 957cc Fiesta first car nowadays. You could even buy a two-seater floppytop sports car like a Midget or a Spitfire that was all mouth and no trousers: they were pretty slow really. Modern-day motoring journalists with their obsession with "keeping up with the flow of traffic" would no doubt think it absurd to have a car that was obviously sporty in design but which could be overtaken by a standard Ford Ka or Polo.

 

Again there might be something to learn from the motorcycle licensing system: new drivers could be restricted to low-power cars?

 

Edited to add: this post took me a long time to write because the phone rang, and I see that Mr Plasticvandan has beaten me to it with the engine size/power point. I know that OMGINSURANCE premiums probably keep a lot of young 'uns out of fast cars, but legislation could be a good plan because it would apply to the rich kids too.

[Junkman]

That's very true: modern cars are all really quick compared to what were used to 20 years ago. I don't think Ford make anything as slow as my 957cc Fiesta first car nowadays. You could even buy a two-seater floppytop sports car like a Midget or a Spitfire that was all mouth and no trousers: they were pretty slow really. Modern-day motoring journalists with their obsession with "keeping up with the flow of traffic" would no doubt think it absurd to have a car that was obviously sporty in design but which could be overtaken by a standard Ford Ka or Polo.

 

Again there might be something to learn from the motorcycle licensing system: new drivers could be restricted to low-power cars?

 

Edited to add: this post took me a long time to write because the phone rang, and I see that Mr Plasticvandan has beaten me to it with the engine size/power point. I know that OMGINSURANCE premiums probably keep a lot of young 'uns out of fast cars, but legislation could be a good plan because it would apply to the rich kids too.

 

For this, you would need low powered cars, which don't exist. Pretty much all cars built today can outperform my Rover V8, which was just 20 years ago still one of the fastest saloons ever built hitherto. Also, the idea is in contrast with my philosophy of freedom and responsibility, it's patronising and enslaving.

[oman5]

Speaking as a giffer, there are very few people of all ages that can drive and I am not one of them either. People who can drive usually are called Ari Vatanen or sum such.

But the whole mess out there isn't about who can drive or not, it's about who can drive from A to B without killing someone.

And this isn't done with OMGDRVNGSKLZ, but with using one's BRAIN.

If you need to apply OMGDRVNGSKLZ on any journey, you have already maneuvered yourself into a situation you shouldn't be in in the first place and which you could have avoided had you used your fucking brain for driving and not for all this other mongsense dumped upon the modern* motorist.

I think realising that you suck at the wheel is the first step towards survival.

Spot on. The problem I think is purely down to the sheer arrogance which is prevalent in today's society. ie, I have a better car/earn more than you/am better than you in some unspecified way therefore I am automatically entitled to do whatever the fuck I want and what are you gonna do about it?.

As a professional driver (HGV) I tend to be a lot more cautious in my driving than some but I wouldn't dream of tempting fate by saying I was necessarily better. 

 

Oh,and another one against the young driver sorry...My mate mal was collecting one of our artics from the workshop in newport last week. junction was clear so he pulls out, and a vw polo tdi promptly rams into the trailer. it was an 18 year old racing an audi on the wrong side of the road. doing approx 80 in a 40 limit. The whole thing was witnessed by a truck driver they had overtaken at high speed some moments before.

everyone walked away, the trailer tyres took the brunt of the impact (car totalled obviously) but apparently the cops are going to make an example out of the young guy as they are so pissed off with the number of collisions involving boy racers, including a recent fatality.

 

I spend most of my driving life on the motorways where exceptionally poor driving is more often than not older people 30s and up like reps and such in audis and BMWs for whom it is a life or death matter not to sell more photocopiers in a day than their rivals. 

 

The only thing that concerns me is with any kind of pigeon hole segregation like "all young drivers are shit, lets legislate against them" is when it gets taken further. anyone over 60. anyone with the letter E in their name. anyone who drives a beige 1977 austin allegro.  you are being treated differently to everyone else by some criteria that has been judged by some pen pusher to make you unfavourable. smacks of being slightly fascistic.

[Mr Livered]

The only thing that concerns me is with any kind of pigeon hole segregation like "all young drivers are shit, lets legislate against them" is when it gets taken further. anyone over 60. anyone with the letter E in their name. anyone who drives a beige 1977 austin allegro.  you are being treated differently to everyone else by some criteria that has been judged by some pen pusher to make you unfavourable. smacks of being slightly fascistic.

Yes, you're right. I'm very much a libertarian and I'm naturally suspicious of legislation. If you can't convince me that it is essential, I'm against it.

 

However, the point is: by restricting young drivers in some way, would we save lives? After all, we already have laws about who can drive what vehicles, and in which circumstances; by tinkering with the rules could we reduce the number of bunches of flowers tied to railings?

 

After all, nobody's proposing that we wade in and take away big freedoms; you and I wouldn't be affected, and young drivers would merely have to go through a period of being restricted in some way before coming to the end of the probation period, buying whatever car they want and enjoying it. Which is a lot easier to do if you're still alive.

 

Final point: I'm not sure what needs to be done here. I'm not proposing a specific course of action and campaigning for it. I'm just trying to be open-minded, and saying that we could consider whether something could be done to make roads safer without trampling on people's freedoms.

[Partridge]

He he he he, I don't care I passed ages ago.

 

I hate young people. And any male under the age of 20 should be incased in concrete and thrown in the sea, because they are all obnoxious, dick brained, spotty, pissy little cunts, starting with Justin fucking Bieber.

 

In all seriousness though, people need to learn to take driving seriously again. Driving a lump of metal around at 40, 50, 60, 70, 80 mph with other lumps of metal around you is serious business.

I agree with Junkman. Cars have been loaded up with too much crap, and are too easy to drive, lulling people into a false sence of security. And people need to know that a 5 star saftey rating does not mean make you immortal, or make crashes any less serious.

 

Playing adverts like this more often would be a good start. I've seen crashes. They're not funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9krX9fHAfHM

[rml2345]

Speaking as a bit of a yoof (25), folk my age can be absolutely shocking. Then again folk twice my age can be absolutely shocking...

I think compulsory skid training and the inclusion of tight country roads is a great idea. I spent quite a lot of my time learning to drive on country roads with my dad and felt the benefit when I passed.

Hasn't stopped me falling off a couple of times though, which is where skid training would have been dead useful. I think for young drivers running out of experience at the crucial moment contributes to some of the statistics at least. My last one was lift off overseer and I fucked it up and wrote off a car I was genuinely fond of. Being able to experience that in a controlled environment would have made me a better driver and saved a lot of hassle.

On the other hand, it might encourage those who would dick about anyway to have even more faith in skills they haven't got...

[Mr Livered]

Alan, that ad is really good. It was deliberately shocking of course, with lots of triggers (a baby, a little child) but it's not dishonest: crashes really can be that gut-wrenchingly catastrophic, and the more that people see it, the better.

 

In an ideal world people could be convinced to pull themselves the fuck together and stop driving like a wanker, with no need (or less need) for laws and so on.

[oman5]

Yes, you're right. I'm very much a libertarian and I'm naturally suspicious of legislation. If you can't convince me that it is essential, I'm against it.

 

However, the point is: by restricting young drivers in some way, would we save lives? After all, we already have laws about who can drive what vehicles, and in which circumstances; by tinkering with the rules could we reduce the number of bunches of flowers tied to railings?

 

After all, nobody's proposing that we wade in and take away big freedoms; you and I wouldn't be affected, and young drivers would merely have to go through a period of being restricted in some way before coming to the end of the probation period, buying whatever car they want and enjoying it. Which is a lot easier to do if you're still alive.

 

Final point: I'm not sure what needs to be done here. I'm not proposing a specific course of action and campaigning for it. I'm just trying to be open-minded, and saying that we could consider whether something could be done to make roads safer without trampling on people's freedoms.

absolutely..I just don't tend to trust very much what gets fed to us. not mentioning the utter bollocks that was speed cameras or anything.

or the wmd fiasco. or the royal mail sell off.  right I'm going to lie down now.

[jmsguzzi]

Wouldn't it make sense to make the black boxes that insurance companies fit compulsory for young drivers?

 

I certainly wouldn't mind and i know that my first car isn't going to be some modern shit that can crack 120. An Austin Metro is a lot more appealing than a Citroen DS3 anyway. 

[Justin Case]

It's really all a matter of attitude. For a start we should get rid of all this equality nonsense. NOT the equality for people regardless of race sex, disability, gayness, etc, which has been a positive thing, but the belief that anyone is as good as anyone else regardless.

 

Let's start by saying that anyone in charge of a ton of car, or probably nearer two these days, who doesn't take pride in driving it competently and safely is an inferior person and should be looked down on. Next, concentration. Forget the fixed penalty for mobile phone using. Automatic ban, doubled if caught texting. If they lose their job, can't take their little brats to school, etc, then so much the better, they won't do it again. Finally, get rid of company cars; they seem to cause a f**k you mentality. If everyone has to own their own cars, they might take more care, and in any case the employers can pay them expenses if necessary.

 

Oh of course, teach people to drive rather than pass the driving test. Mrs A can't reverse round a corner to save her life, so she would probably fail the test, but she is aware of other roadusers of all types, and hardly ever gets caught out or has a near miss, let alone an accident, and I always feel quite safe passengering with her.

[Bobthebeard]

People of any age can be bad drivers. Young people are no different. Young people tend to be stuffed full of hormones and a need to impress though. Suspect any one of us who is no longer young has a story to tell.

Most survive without hurting themselves or others, but some don't. Guess we were lucky.

[retrogeezer]

remember this 'wear your seatbelt' ad from the late 90's. I remember it being on TV, it's pretty graphic really so it must have been on late, bonus Mk3 Cavalier with modified bonnet too!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iakQ40bbvLE

[Junkman]

I have seen quite a few of those very graphic accident videos targeted specifically at young drivers and they really are quite disturbing, at least I find them so.

It should be made mandatory to watch those at school, and they should be shown before the main feature in cinemas. I think it is justifiable that a portion of my VED gets allocated to finance such a campaign.

Most young people haven't yet seen what it really looks like when a severe accident happened. They should be forced to see the horrors.

[Bobthebeard]

I have seen quite a few of those very graphic accident videos targeted specifically at young drivers and they really are quite disturbing, at least I find them so.

It should be made mandatory to watch those at school, and they should be shown before the main feature in cinemas. I think it is justifiable that a portion of my VED gets allocated to finance such a campaign.

Most young people haven't yet seen what it really looks like when a severe accident happened. They should be forced to see the horrors.

True.

But people have been shown such things before. The horrors of smoking, drinking, driving badly, accidents, etc.

Most people don't connect and seem to think it doesn't apply to them as they will be ok....

As we all* did when young.

[Partridge]

It took me a year to learn to drive. I like to think all the extra hours paid off and made me a safer person on the road from the outset. But not everyone can afford to do that, I was lucky.

When it comes to younger drivers putting their Corsas into hedges/lamposts/cars/people they woulden't need to be able to control a car at the limit if they were not driving like a bellend in the first place.

They only way to stop that from happening is to put accidents, and their effects into the public concience. Those "THINK" posters on the back of buses to bugger all.

 

Three years ago I was working at a house on a busy main road near a secondary school (I'm a landscaper). A schoolgirl stepped out in front of a car, got hit, and was thrown into the middle of the lane. The driver of the car that hit her did fuck all (he was probably in shock), but my work mates and a few other drivers did what we could until the emergency services arrived. What I saw has stayed with me ever since. One side of her face was smashed to bits, and there was a lot of blood on the road around her. It was the most horric thing I have ever seen, and I still have bad dreams about it three years later. I could give you a graphic description of it, and if I did you'd think twice about putting your foot down for a long time to come.

I have no idea if she survived or if she was still alive when she was taken away.

Part of me hopes she didn't survive it. If she is still alive she would be very badly disfigured, probably incapable of speech or eating without a tube. She'd probably be brain damaged and quite likely paralysied as well. A kid, probably 14 or 15, fucked up for life if she was "lucky" enough to survive.

I could probably find out what happened to her, but I don't really want to.

 

I don't know how she didn't see the Passat that hit her coming, or would think she could have made it (it must have been going bloody fast to do that much damage to her), but if the driver had maybe been more aware of what was around him, or was driving at an appropriate speed, things would have been different.

 

This is why I'm hyper about road saftey and not being distracted. But if everyone saw what I saw, they'd be safer drivers. End of.

[retrogeezer]

the Australians have good drink/drive type campaigns, seen those clips on youtube a few times.

[Bobthebeard]

Modern car design doesn't help IMHO. Our Honda Accord has thick/wide screen pillars that are a bastard at junctions. Have learned to compensate by looking and looking twice, but still not great.

[Partridge]

I wonder how many people have been killed or hurt by accidents caused by blinds spots in huge pillars, in comparison to those hurt or killed by rollovers or what have you in cars with weak pillars.

[Junkman]

the Australians have good drink/drive type campaigns, seen those clips on youtube a few times.

I've seen those too, they are bloody brilliant. However, in this respect, the war seems to be pretty much won, there are hardly any drunk drivers around anymore and driving drunk is seen as being decidedly unkewl even amongst the kids. This is in stark contrast to 30 years ago, lemme tellya.

 

 

Modern car design doesn't help IMHO. Our Honda Accord has thick/wide screen pillars that are a bastard at junctions. Have learned to compensate by looking and looking twice, but still not great.

Very true and this is what I find most annoying with all newfangled tosh I drove lately. Those elephant legs are thick enough to hide a 40 tonner. "It came out of nowhere".

As I said before, I blame those dimwits in the industry for doing a good job to make our roads a more dangerous place than necessary.

[Spiny Norman]

I wonder how many people have been killed or hurt by accidents caused by blinds spots in huge pillars, in comparison to those hurt or killed by rollovers or what have you in cars with weak pillars.

 

I've never known anyone who's rolled a car hard enough to warrant the degree of roof strength in modern cars. More often than not, when a car rolls it does so in the direction of travel, and not much energy is absorbed by the roof structure unless it happens to fall down a great distance or hits something roof first.

 

Modern cars with pillars that can hide a whole HGV are a pet hate of mine too, but remember it's the driver's re3sponsibility to make sure he can see out the car, and if that means having another look to be sure, or moving your head, then do that rather than stare blankly at the 6" wide pillar of grey fuzzy felt and decide because you can't see another car it must be safe to go.

 

 

I know I sound like the old fart I am here when I say this, but people nowadays just don't THINK.

On the subject of the schoolgirl getting knocked down, near where I live is a school on a main road. One lunchtime when driving along the road I noticed the usual tragic little bunches of flowers tied to the railings that are the mark of some poor kid being knocked down. Did it make the slightest bit of difference to their classmates?

 

Did it fuck.

They were still running across the road, actively baiting the traffic and playing chicken with everything, including a bus that had to brake a lot harder than bus drivers like having to brake to avoid the little fucks.

 

I'm with Darwin, stop protecting the stupid and let's allow the genetic gene pool to rise a few IQ points. The smart ones will learn and adapt and the mongs will perish.

[DSdriver]

Has anybody mentioned that having a big spike sticking out of the middle of the steering wheel would make everyone a lot more careful about their approach to driving. If they have I apologise but I am catching up on my alcohol intake after a week of antibiotics.

[Grundig]

I passed my test at 17 & got a car, that MK3 Cortina taught me more about driving (& other stuff) than any amount of lessons ever could 

[Sloth in a bowl]

LOL!!

 

That 3-wheeled electric car thing is amazing.

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/733349205/eec_electric_car.html

 

 

 

It's amazing but the solution to young drivers killing themselves (and others) has been in another thread all along.

[robinmasters]

I thought I was fucking invincible when I was 17. As it turns out, I actually was. Not everyone's so lucky. 

 

I don't think young people are necessarily particularly dangerous. They make the news because they've usually got a car full of their friends, and a car full of teenagers with their whole lives ahead of them is generally considered more tragic, and therefore more newsworthy, than a car full of old giffers.

 

That said, better training for drivers isn't a bad thing. Older bad drivers started bad and never learned any different. Maybe the system they have/are going to introduce for motorbikes: limits on engine size/power until you have a certain amount of experience.

[brickwall]

How about letting them drive and then a refresher after 12 months?

I dunno really, first thing that came into my head