CMax diesel 1.6 WTF!! etc etc

[Guest]

Just chatting to a mate and these engine are a french jobbie by all accounts.

Amazingly there was an internal ford memo about the eatign turbos.

The one in the memo did 6 turbos in as many months.

Seized them solid.

Turns out these new oils crystalised and blocked oil ways and they suck oil from the sump.

Anyways, Fords recommended cure?

New turbo, air pump as it has small oil ways, remove sump - new pick up etc etc.

Huge bill to any unknowing customer for a problem ford knows about.

 

Say you're a couple with a new kid, newish say 4 year old car, new baby then you get a bill for that - which at mate's guess in well over £2k at independant prices*!!!! Jesus

 

* Eurocar parts turbo £400ish - main dealer £double......

 

Not sure of point in this post and maybe my naivity shows but...wow.

 

Renault Kango vans - diesel specialist round here 15 done in last few months, diesel pump wears inside - takes out injectors by clogging with shit £200+ VAT a pop plus the pump on say a 54 plate van.

[eddyramrod]

Well as I've said many times...

1: French engines? Are you serious???

2: Diesel is not for cars.

3: Modern cars are too complicated and expensive. They won't survive to become shite.

[fiatdaft]

French technology,need i say anymore?

[peter9000uk]

You may scoff but believe it or not my mate has just taken in part ex a 52 plate laguna 1.9 diesel that has 233000 miles on the clock. acres of service history and still on it's original engine, turbo & 6 speed box. It drives like a car that has done less than half that mileage and sll the electrics work with the exception of 2 tyre sensors.

 

\the secret is it has been serviced correctly throughout it's life.

[Talbotman]

Cmax Diesel....... French???? Yep its pan European design between Ford and Psa but not wholely French... ok its used in Psa stuff but also in Mazdas and Volvos.Yep it has its foibles but then again so do all modern diesel engines. In fact due to all the emissions crap that all diesels have to go through these days and the tolerance issues that brings. Youd be lucky to get more than 120k max life span out of any diesel regardless of manufacturer. Turbos, dpf filters bla de bla...all great for the company buyer when new, a ruddy nightmare for the private punter afterwards. Look in the spares or repairs section of ebay and the majority of the cars in there are Diesels up to 10 years old, all makes shapes and sizes with fooooked motors.

[Father Ted]

I was quite wary of the C8 in so much as they have a reputation to lunching the cam belt which ruins the rockers and needs the head removing, and then you discover the injectors are rusted into the head and that means the head itself is lunch.

 

Then I looked at how many taxi drivers have them round here and thought, fuck it they cant be THAT bad or the airport taxi lads wouldnt have them.

 

I believe correct servicing and timely replacement of the cam belt are the main order of the day. Im rather hoping I get about 5 years out of mine *(bringing it up to 10 years old) before it goes to that great baked bean tin in the sky.

 

I really would like a Chrysler Grand Voyager though - now there is some pain waiting to happen.....

[dollywobbler]

Presumably this is similar to the 1.6 PSA unit used in the BIGI as well? Clearly everyone still thinks that French diesels are the best. Not sure that's been the case since the demise of the XUD though...

[Father Ted]

The early DW10 is very similar to the XU9D, same bottom end, slightly different top end. I would be more than happy with the 90BHP HDi donkey in 2.0 guise and indeed have had 3 now, one covering well over 180K miles before I parted with it without any injector issues, HGF or any other maladies.

 

The HDi one in the C8 has a twin cam set up with cam number 2 being chain driven off cam number 1 which is belt driven. The design seems quite sound in most cars except the Euro Van 2 (C8) and that seems to be down to design where water can and does drip onto the belt from underneath the water tank, this causes the steel reinforcing bands in the belt to rust causing the belt to go west. Hopefully because I chose a non FAP car should this happen it will be wasy enough to bolt in a 110 DW10 8v rather than the DW10ATED that pushes out about the same BHP anyway.

 

The DLD engine jointly developed with PSA (1.4, and 1.6 HDi) are different beasts entirely. Whilst you could shove any old oil in the DW10 design the DLD needs Low SAP stuff to stop the engines sludging up. Personally I dont think it was PSA's greatest design and doesnt seem to be the best engine out there. A lot of that is due to the "anti-pollution" measures engineered into the design which seem to build in reliability issues - though the same can be said with the CDTi engine used by Vauxhall and Fiat.

[Pete-M]

I was talking to the owner of a 470,000 mile, 2007 Skoda Octavia TDi taxi yesterday.

 

Other than cambelts, water pumps and oil changes NOTHING has been done to the engine. He's had it from new, three drivers have shared it since day one, and it's still going strong. Original exhaust and turbo, but it's had a couple of clutches.

 

I suspect the cabbie secret is "never let it cool down"...

[ProgRocker]

My parents have a CMax 1.6 TDCi. Interesting to know...

[dieselnutjob]

so what is the problem with these 1.6? is it just people using cheap oil?

 

my 607 2.2HDI also lunched its timing belt at 46000 miles, though it was the previous owners problem not mine (in fact Peugeot paid the bill in the end). A colleagues C8 needed a new engine because they couldn't get the injectors out. I am dribbling oil down the sides of the injectors at every service and I'm hoping that will make things easier if they ever do need to come out

[R9UKE]

You may scoff but believe it or not my mate has just taken in part ex a 52 plate laguna 1.9 diesel that has 233000 miles on the clock. acres of service history and still on it's original engine, turbo & 6 speed box. It drives like a car that has done less than half that mileage and sll the electrics work with the exception of 2 tyre sensors.

 

\the secret is it has been serviced correctly throughout it's life.

 

Is this for sale!?? Must be a record mileage for a dCi!

 

Yeh, Ford are fitting that 1.6 lump to a few of their cars. It's essentially the 1.6 HDi 110 that graces the C4, 307, 407 etc. Funny, I've never heard of any turbo issues when they're in these cars, I was under the impression that they're actually the best HDi unit to go for. Perhaps Ford cocked around with it?

[kinkersaab]

......... my Citroen C6 is diesel, i am slightly less scared to read OMG Diesels are shit threads, than i am to say mine seems to be going gr9 ......

The previous owner had spent £10k on making it work in the last 2 years... taking it up to 77k miles, i have had it 2 months, and thrashed around in it taking it up to 84k, and so far.....so g ....BANG!!!! OMG,DPF............. Given the choice, there is no way i would buy a modern diesel, if a petrol one was available, ever!

[Pillock]

All our company lease cars are '90 Focus 1.6 TDCIs, I was under the impression they were 90bhp?

They're all still going strong, and the shared ones at least get thrashed and never serviced. Just a bit gutless, they don't like pulling away with less than 2000rpm which makes you sound a bit like an old biddy navigating Asda's carpark.

[gdhaydock]

Had a 2005 1.6tdci 110bhp focus brand new as a company car. Only driven by myself, serviced on time at 12,500 mile intervals by the main stealers (leased on a full maintenance agreement) Never thrashed when cold, allowed to idle for a period before switching off. Never used for short trips.

 

By the time the 25000 mile service was due, there was a coating of oil on the outside of the air intake pipe. Asked the stealer to investigate during the service, they wiped the pipe clean and fobbed me off by saying they had 'retourqued the turbo' As it wasn't my problem if the car blew up or not, I didn't pursue this.

 

After another 2-3000 miles the pipe was coated again, so back to the stealer and they kept it a day and told me they had replaced a split intercooler pipe. This seemed to solve the particular problem.

 

At around 40,000 miles, I became aware of the turbo starting to whine, after another few miles the turbo bearings failed completely, EML light came on and just managed to dive off the motorway. Stopped engine and called RAC who recovered the car back to the main stealer in manchester.

 

They replaced the turbo under warranty and was OK until it went back to the lease company in 2008 with 100000 miles on it.

 

We had several identical cars on the fleet that did the same thing, i.e misting of oil on the pipe and then turbo failure anywhere between 15k and 50k. Ford were very tight lipped at the time and just repaired the cars without quibbling. It is only much more recently I have seen similar stories on the internet.

 

Seems it is caused by oil crystalising in the turbo feed pipe, thus reducing the oil flow. The ford bulletin which now appears to be public, insists when replacing the turbo, the oil should be changed 3 times, flushing in between, a modified oil feed pipe to be fitted and only ford oil to be used.

 

A lot of these cars will have been bought at 3 years old, out of warranty as an economical choice by people, who then suffer from OMG TURBO FAILURE or OMG DPF. Some of them probably bought on finance agreements which they can't afford, then the car effectively becoming scrap before its paid for.

 

I'm quite lucky in the respect that I get a fully expensed car as part of my job, but I would never contemplate buying a modern motor with my own money.

[CIH]

Anybody who knows a thing or two about turbo motors will tell you; oil in the intake tract = oil getting past the turbo seals = fooked turbo.

[R9UKE]

This thread is serving as a beautiful representation of why there isn't, and never will be, a modern diesel in my signature.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Anybody who knows a thing or two about turbo motors will tell you; oil in the intake tract = oil getting past the turbo seals = fooked turbo.

 

Can also mean fooked breather system, forcing oil past the seals.

[Volksy]

Anybody who knows a thing or two about turbo motors will tell you; oil in the intake tract = oil getting past the turbo seals = fooked turbo.

 

Can also mean fooked breather system, forcing oil past the seals.

 

Quite true Mr.B I replaced the turbo on my volvo thinking that it was buggered, turned out to be a blocked crankcase breather...

[Guest]

Hmm the blocked crank case breather...

The Nissan Sx OC have the world's longest thread all about this but no mnetion of the ball valve breather in the back of the intake manifold that blocks and they smoke like pigs - no some sage like mechanic told them "you need a one way valve" so off they troop.

 

Did one of the retards even know the OE valv e was there let alone needed a service? Nooooooooooooooo.

 

Regardimg my original post, I cannot say this Ford memo is in the public domain or not but someone reiterated my point that buy one +3 years old, just manage the HP and its dies and it's scrap before it's even paid for.

 

I'm keeping my 700 mile a tank 405 turdoweasel.

[dieselnutjob]

A bit of oil in the intercooler / intake pipes is normal. It's when it mixes with soot from the EGR and makes a black sludge and blocks the inlet that things are not so good.

 

Oil crystalising in the turbo oil feed pipe isn't normal and makes me wonder if people are putting cheap oil in them. I have always put fully synthetic oils in turbo diesels for that reason.

 

Does the Mazda 3 1.6 diesel have a Ford engine that's really a PugCit one?

[dieselnutjob]

According to Citroen bulletins it is due to poor oil change proceedures. Looks like these engines are highly sensitive to sludge.

 

Citroën wrote ...

 

OIL CHANGE PROCEDURE ON ALL DV6 ENGINES

 

It is necessary to follow a specific oil change procedure on all DV6 and DV6U engines so as to ensure that no used oil remains to mix with the new oil.

 

The following method must be used:

 

• The engine oil temperature must be at least 50°C :

- the engine oil temperature is considered to be at 50°C when the water temperature indicator is between 80°C and 90°C or the cooling fan has cut in

• ensure that the vehicle is level (side to side and fore and aft)

• remove the oil filter to allow the circuit to drain completely

• remove the oil filler cap and the dipstick

• remove the drain plug

• allow the oil to drain by gravity for at least 10 minutes (DO NOT USE SUCTION METHODS)

• fit a new oil filter

• refit the drain plug with a new sealing washer

• fill the engine with quantity of oil recommended for the engine

• refit the oil filler cap and the dipstick

• run the engine at idle until the oil pressure warning lamp goes out (about 1 minute)

• wait 5 minutes

• check the oil level using the dipstick: the level should be as close as possible to, but not exceeding the maximum mark (1) so as to be between (1) and (3)

 

For information, the lower mark (2) = Min (0%) the upper mark (1) = Max (100%) the intermediate mark (3) = ¾

4 of 4

 

CONSEQUENCES OF NOT KEEPING TO THE OIL CHANGE INTERVALS

 

If the customer does not have the oil changed at the recommended intervals, the oil will become excessively polluted and will no longer ensure the correct lubrication of the engine. One of the first consequences is inadequate lubrication of the turbocharger bearings causing a failure which is repeated after the turbocharger is replaced. Subsequent symptoms resulting from the reduced level of lubrication will be a noisy engine and then destruction of the engine.

 

We remind you that if the customer does not keep to the servicing intervals recommended in the Maintenance and Guarantee Guide, the customer will be responsible for the durability of the mechanical parts of the engine.

In this case, the any related repairs needed are not covered by the new vehicle warranty.

 

CONSEQUENCES OF NOT FOLLOWING THE OIL CHANGE PROCEDURE

 

If the oil changes are not done as described above, all deposits of old oil will not be removed and will very quickly pollute the new oil, accelerating the ageing of the oil in the engine lubrication circuit (even causing the oil to congeal).

 

The consequences for the engine are the same as if the oil change intervals are not observed. As a result, any related repairs needed are not covered under the new vehicle warranty.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

I wonder what the chances are of the above bulletin reaching, and being understood by, the apprentices at National Tyres and/or the proprietor of Big Karl's Autos down the alley.

[dieselnutjob]

I wonder what the chances are of the above bulletin reaching, and being understood by, the apprentices at National Tyres and/or the proprietor of Big Karl's Autos down the alley.

 

0.01%

[alf892]

I used to work for a company that was be a big Ford customer and experienced all the joy and pain that goes with that. Because we were very high volume we could usually get them to listen though.......for example we took all transits with solid flywheels.

 

The 1.6 diesel was different though......we had a good number of them fail and I had taken them on non maintained contracts so the problem was ours. In warranty was usually OK. Once out though it was different......

 

The dealer would always want to fit an engine to which we responded 'no just repair as per bulletin'. They unwillingly did this a few times only to have another turbo go in a few thousand miles as predicted. The dealer insisted that the debris from the previous failure had caused the second one. As we had the repair done as per the bulletin (and this was noted on the invoice) we would pursue a parts claim. We got to 4 turbos on one unit before they stopped honouring the warranty....All vehicles were dealer serviced

 

Meanwhile I chased Ford for resolution on the lines of if the repair requires an engine then explain why (and then do it) or if the tech bulletin was correct then they should stand by the warranty. I also remember going for a new engine because 'their' (ie the parts operation) had failed and caused damage to my engine. This went on for some months and I stopped ordering focus...........I did get an offer from the sales side to pay for engines in two of them but I still wanted to warranty boys to own up. Stalemate continued until the firm I worked for went fuggin pop and ford got off the hook....

 

 

To sum up.......that 1.6TDci in the focus is to be avoided!

 

I now work for another firm and we are just taking a few mondeos with a 1.6TDCi which produce more power which usually makes stuff more fragile so we will see.........

[Rocket88]

Taxi driver in Guernsey went through SIX turbochargers with this engine. Eventually, Fod hand built him another turbo [with some secret mods] to stop him going to the press. This engine is now not sold new in the Channel Islands [Ford company policy]

[Guest]

from Dieselnutjobs Citroen bulletin:

• allow the oil to drain by gravity for at least 10 minutes (DO NOT USE SUCTION METHODS)

 

Hmmmm main dealers and many of the indies use the ole sucky sucky five dollar America machines....

 

As for the Channel Islands jobbie, I can only put 2 and 2 together and this is the one referred to in the Ford internal memo!

[Cavcraft]

Sure we've been down this avenue (of discussion) before but isn't there some truth in that if modern diesels engines were giving a regualr good thrashing they'd last a bit longer?

Works vehicles that get a pasting occasionally certainly seem to fare better than those that don't at my gaffe.

[CIH]

I wonder what the chances are of the above bulletin reaching, and being understood by, the apprentices at National Tyres and/or the proprietor of Big Karl's Autos down the alley.

 

0.01%

 

That's about as basic as it gets. There's no special information in there ?

[Mr_Bo11ox]

You cant change the oil too often, specially with these modern diesels, you would be amazed what problems can be avoided by changing the oil. I dont know what the official oil change intervals are on a Focus TCDi but I bet the failure rate would go down by 75% if the oil change frequency was doubled.

 

I have seen turbochargers with their bearings blocked completely by solidified 'shiz' thats been carried there in the oil then gone solid when the engine has cooled down. I've changed the oil and warmed the engine gently to soften the deposits without waking the turbo up. Eventually the clean oil flows through and the turbo comes back to life, and continues operating with no problems on the new oil. All cos off too much muck in the old oil. Obv with that bulletin above, citroen must be mega paranoid about getting every last trace of the old oil out because its so full of muck.

 

if I had one of these things I would change the oil every 6-7000 as if it was a Morris Ital using a suitably graded oil from Euro car Parts or somthing, i.e. an 'approved' oil but not the official OEM-supplied oil.