Bus Shite

[lesapandre]

Thanks. Yes now I remember Nottingham. I did not know W. Mids - I must go for a ride sometime. Oh I forgot Manchester too.

Edinburgh really? Gosh.

They work really well in disaggregated towns and cities pulling remoter parts together.

Croydon trams run as far a Beckenham for example.

[danthecapriman]

Down in Waterlooville where I used to live, there was a pretty big tram system that spread from Portsmouth and Gosport up to Horndean village. Pretty sure it extended from the seafront right inland. 
I know for sure it went along the main road outside my old house to Horndean. There was a tram shed not far away and became a Waitrose then Lidel car park after it was demolished. 
There was also a tram shed in Gosport that still remains, now in use as a substation which I used to go to occasionally when I worked at SSE. 
I also found a load of very old light railway style sections of rail at an old industrial site in Gosport when working there one day. They’d obviously all been ripped up and used to build the frames of some storage sheds and reinforce the main buildings walls.

@Yoss might know a bit about being fairly local-ish? I know it was closed and removed quite some time ago, waaaay before my time!

I found these pics from bygone Portsmouth (I think!?) https://bygone.co.uk/home/

 

 

[busmansholiday]

2 hours ago, lesapandre said:

Thanks. Yes now I remember Nottingham. I did not know W. Mids - I must go for a ride sometime. Oh I forgot Manchester too.

Edinburgh really? Gosh.

They work really well in disaggregated towns and cities pulling remoter parts together.

Croydon trams run as far a Beckenham for example.

Errrm, Sheffield was the first to reintroduce trams, with proper street running, back in March 1994. I was on the first tram from Meadowhell to Commercial Street that day, I was also with my parents outside the Town Hall on the last day of the old trams in October 1960.

[lesapandre]

LOL. Sheffield- oops I did not know that either...

[martc]

It's 2005 and here's a photo that could easily have found itself in the truck shite thread. The Leyland Chieftain crane was donated to 'Asia Bus Response' after the tragic Christmas tsunami.

And here's a photo of the buses donated to the response -

I'm guessing the tow truck could have come in handy.

Lot's more photos and info here - https://www.asiabusresponse.co.uk/index.html

[EyesWeldedShut]

On 29/01/2025 at 16:42, cms206 said:

so have a smattering more London.

I can give you a couple of locations:

Hoppa is in Terminus Place o/s Victoria Rail Stn 
77 bus may be Nth end Waterloo Bridge j/w Strand
24 (Grey Green) North Side Trafalgar Sq o/s National Gallery
22B New Oxford Street 
507 - Victoria Rail Station
16 Edgeware Road almost into Maida Vale
281 & T4 - no idea, feels like Kingston Town Centre/Penrhyn Road?
74? - see below
A1 - Grosvenor Gardens
74 - Camden Town o/s the World End Pub
134 o/s Camden Town Tube
279 - no idea, East London - clueless
172 - the bus lane in Trafalgar Square o/s Canada House
53 - Camden Town (guessed based on the Tube station and the #74 buses above)
253 - same as the 279 above - clueless
3 - Whitehall j/w Parliament Square, F&C Office behind
137 = see 74 above
11 - self explanatory
55 - Victoria
9 - Westminster Bridge towards Parliament Square
16 - Victoria
159 - Nth side, Trafalgar Square. Canada House in background
88 - not sure - maybe Pall Mall, looking to cut across n side Trafalgar Sq to hit Whitehall (as with the 159 above)
2b - Hyde Park Corner, Buck House garden wall behind
22 - it's on the bus stop
14 - Hyde Park Corner
73 - Victoria
38 - Victoria Street j/w Buckingham Palace Road
Bus garage - no idea
30 - Hyde Park Corner/Knightsbridge - the old St George's Hospital behind
171 - Somewhere around The Aldwych, I thought Melbourne Place but not 100%
 

[Yoss]

2 hours ago, danthecapriman said:

Down in Waterlooville where I used to live, there was a pretty big tram system that spread from Portsmouth and Gosport up to Horndean village. Pretty sure it extended from the seafront right inland. 
I know for sure it went along the main road outside my old house to Horndean. There was a tram shed not far away and became a Waitrose then Lidel car park after it was demolished. 
There was also a tram shed in Gosport that still remains, now in use as a substation which I used to go to occasionally when I worked at SSE. 
I also found a load of very old light railway style sections of rail at an old industrial site in Gosport when working there one day. They’d obviously all been ripped up and used to build the frames of some storage sheds and reinforce the main buildings walls.

@Yoss might know a bit about being fairly local-ish? I know it was closed and removed quite some time ago, waaaay before my time!

I found these pics from bygone Portsmouth (I think!?) https://bygone.co.uk/home/

 

 

I'm afraid my knowledge of the Portsmouth system is very limited despite it not being far away. 

I know there was talk, more than talk in fact of building a tram line from Fareham to Gosport, probably 15 to 20 years ago now. I don't know if there is still any sign of it but there used to be a freight line that you could see from south end of Fareham Station (it went straight on from the end of the station, the running line departed to the left).

The plans were to use this, then run in to Fareham town centre. At the Gosport end they were going to build a tunnel under the harbour to Portsmouth. These plans would have been great for Gosport which is on a bit of a peninsula and the traffic is always terrible as there are realistically only two roads in and out. But of course it was deemed too expensive and went no further. 

Southamptons tram system looked a lot smaller than Portsmouths. It stayed very much within the city boundaries. Two spurs out west to Shirley and Millbrook, a loop round Bassett Green and Portswood and a single spur over the river (the wrong side of the river!) from Portswood to Bitterne Triangle. 

There is an ex Southampton tram preserved in an innocuous looking tin shed down the docks. I paid a visit a few years ago. 

The roofs were specially shaped to fit under the Bargate. 

I have no idea what the plans are for it. 

 

The trams ran from both Portswood and Shirley depots. Portswood of course lasted until a few years ago as the sole bus garage in Southampton until First Bus were good enough to sell it to Sainsbury's. The resulting supermarket does have a display showing the history of the site but its hardly the same. 

Shirley lasted as a bus garage until 1981. It closed when the last AEC Regents were withdrawn. It just sat there for a few years but is now just housing. There is no sign that it was ever there. 

These were taken just after it had been demolished in 1988.

I do have quite a lot of pictures of it being demolished but they are currently with a friend.

We broke in a few times. I have to say this was not difficult. There was a hole in the fence and one of the doors wasn't locked. Inside was exactly as they had left it the day it closed. My favourite bit was a glass topped desk with a hand written list of the employees under the glass. We recognised some of the names as they were still working on the buses. 

[lesapandre]

54 minutes ago, EyesWeldedShut said:

I can give you a couple of locations:

Hoppa is in Terminus Place o/s Victoria Rail Stn 
77 bus may be Nth end Waterloo Bridge j/w Strand
24 (Grey Green) North Side Trafalgar Sq o/s National Gallery
22B New Oxford Street 
507 - Victoria Rail Station
16 Edgeware Road almost into Maida Vale
281 & T4 - no idea, feels like Kingston Town Centre/Penrhyn Road?
74? - see below
A1 - Grosvenor Gardens
74 - Camden Town o/s the World End Pub
134 o/s Camden Town Tube
279 - no idea, East London - clueless
172 - the bus lane in Trafalgar Square o/s Canada House
53 - Camden Town (guessed based on the Tube station and the #74 buses above)
253 - same as the 279 above - clueless
3 - Whitehall j/w Parliament Square, F&C Office behind
137 = see 74 above
11 - self explanatory
55 - Victoria
9 - Westminster Bridge towards Parliament Square
16 - Victoria
159 - Nth side, Trafalgar Square. Canada House in background
88 - not sure - maybe Pall Mall, looking to cut across n side Trafalgar Sq to hit Whitehall (as with the 159 above)
2b - Hyde Park Corner, Buck House garden wall behind
22 - it's on the bus stop
14 - Hyde Park Corner
73 - Victoria
38 - Victoria Street j/w Buckingham Palace Road
Bus garage - no idea
30 - Hyde Park Corner/Knightsbridge - the old St George's Hospital behind
171 - Somewhere around The Aldwych, I thought Melbourne Place but not 100%
 

The 279 is stopped in Finsbury Park on Isledon Rd - on the left is the famous Astoria or Rainbow Theatre as it became - now a church.*

*redeeming myself from my total lack of tram knowledge above 🙄

For those that don't know the Rainbow was one of the UK most famous music venues. Loads of bands did albums 'live at'.

[danthecapriman]

1 hour ago, Yoss said:

I'm afraid my knowledge of the Portsmouth system is very limited despite it not being far away. 

I know there was talk, more than talk in fact of building a tram line from Fareham to Gosport, probably 15 to 20 years ago now. I don't know if there is still any sign of it but there used to be a freight line that you could see from south end of Fareham Station (it went straight on from the end of the station, the running line departed to the left).

The plans were to use this, then run in to Fareham town centre. At the Gosport end they were going to build a tunnel under the harbour to Portsmouth. These plans would have been great for Gosport which is on a bit of a peninsula and the traffic is always terrible as there are realistically only two roads in and out. But of course it was deemed too expensive and went no further. 

Southamptons tram system looked a lot smaller than Portsmouths. It stayed very much within the city boundaries. Two spurs out west to Shirley and Millbrook, a loop round Bassett Green and Portswood and a single spur over the river (the wrong side of the river!) from Portswood to Bitterne Triangle. 

There is an ex Southampton tram preserved in an innocuous looking tin shed down the docks. I paid a visit a few years ago. 

The roofs were specially shaped to fit under the Bargate. 

I have no idea what the plans are for it. 

 

The trams ran from both Portswood and Shirley depots. Portswood of course lasted until a few years ago as the sole bus garage in Southampton until First Bus were good enough to sell it to Sainsbury's. The resulting supermarket does have a display showing the history of the site but its hardly the same. 

Shirley lasted as a bus garage until 1981. It closed when the last AEC Regents were withdrawn. It just sat there for a few years but is now just housing. There is no sign that it was ever there. 

These were taken just after it had been demolished in 1988.

I do have quite a lot of pictures of it being demolished but they are currently with a friend.

We broke in a few times. I have to say this was not difficult. There was a hole in the fence and one of the doors wasn't locked. Inside was exactly as they had left it the day it closed. My favourite bit was a glass topped desk with a hand written list of the employees under the glass. We recognised some of the names as they were still working on the buses. 

I think the freight line down to Gosport from Fareham mostly served the Navy/Military sites down the Gosport side of Portsmouth harbour. There’s various bits of it still in place all the way down to the old station building in Gosport, right down the end of the peninsula. In fact at one of the big junctions on the A32 on the way down into Gosport there (or was until recently?) a patch of weeds/brambles on the side of the junction, under which are some sections of track still in place. 
The main road in/out is absolutely horrendous. The amount of times I did that trip at work! It was always an absolute nightmare and made any job in Gosport something to really not look forward to! 
Part of the old track bed into Gosport was intended to become a light rail tramway, but as you say, binned because of cost… instead they converted a good deal of the trackbed into a long straight road for buses only. Basically a direct bus route without the need to use the A32. Not quite the ideal solution really when an electric tramway would have been a far better long term solution.

 

Regarding the Portsmouth trams, I was sure there was also a trolley bus system too… I was right!

http://www.trolleybus.net/p1.htm

I’m sure I remember one of the ‘townies’ where I worked telling me about it and how there was a turning point for them on the seafront in Eastney. Essentially they ran along the sea front road to the turning point on Henderson Road where there was a concrete round road section with a pole for the overhead wires in the centre. The trolley bus would drive onto the round concrete road and turn driving around pole. The driver then had to get out and rotate the pickup conductor before continuing the trip back down the sea front.

Part of it is still there too believe it or not! Right in the middle in this google earth shot above the toilet block.

  
The trolley buses lasted until the mid 60’s apparently. Some were scrapped but others sold to other operators in other areas. One of the ex Portsmouth trolley buses actually (fittingly!😆) was converted into a mobile ladies lavatory vehicle somewhere else!

[artdjones]

The Bournemouth trolley buses used to have a turntable at Christchurch.

It's still there, although there's a Jobcentre in front of it now.

[auntiemaryscanary]

4 hours ago, Yoss said:

Edinburgh, Nottingham and the West Midlands have them but your point still stands. They were all reintroduced at vast expense. Only Blackpool never got rid of them and have had them continuously. 

Nottingham tram network is limited to a couple of lines with the central part being shared by all the lines. Whilst I use the tram it doesn't go anywhere near my house, or a lot of of other areas in the greater Nottingham conurbation. Still pleased we have it though.

The current system is considerably more limited than the old one. (Certain roadworks often uncover the old lines).

[lesapandre]

New pantograph electric bus London. Not quite a trolley but near.

[Rustyrotavator]

Nottingham tram are welcome as per AMC comment and work nicely with the NCT bus service , which to my mind is wonderful. Nottingham old tram buildings still exist. close to me is Sherwood tram depot , as was , https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1208462  part of which is now a spoons, with pictures and history on their webpage . https://www.jdwetherspoon.com/pubs/the-samuel-hall-nottingham/

Edited 20 hours ago by Rustyrotavator
spoons website added

[busmansholiday]

2 hours ago, martc said:

It's 2005 and here's a photo that could easily have found itself in the truck shite thread. The Leyland Chieftain crane was donated to 'Asia Bus Response' after the tragic Christmas tsunami.

And here's a photo of the buses donated to the response -

I'm guessing the tow truck could have come in handy.

Lot's more photos and info here - https://www.asiabusresponse.co.uk/index.html

Ah, yes, that picture with the Yorkshire Traction Metroriders at the front (they didn't go actually), I'll comment no further on that.

The Metrobuses at the back (ignore the yellow decker on the left, that's a VR) were chosen to be sent to Sri Lanka as it was felt that given the conditions in Sri Lanka, ignoring the tsunami, they stood the best chance of working with minimal maintenance, and they were correct. What actually killed the Metrobuses off (and I remember having a conversation with one of the depot engineers in Negombo (I used to go almost annually there until I retired from work in 2016)) was actually the tyres. Metrobuses had a low profile tyre which wasn't easily (or cheaply) available in Sri Lanka (unlike tyres for Routemasters) and the cost of purchasing them eventually meant it wasn't worth the cost of keeping the Metrobuses on the road, hence why Routemasters out lived them (and you could stick a Tata / Isuzu engine and manual box in an RM, not a Metrobus - see my avatar).

I've a fair few pics of RMs and Metrobuses in Sri Lanka taken over the years (some have been published in magazines and books).

 

 

[quicksilver]

4 minutes ago, busmansholiday said:

Ah, yes, that picture with the Yorkshire Traction Metroriders at the front (they didn't go actually), I'll comment no further on that.

The Metrobuses at the back (ignore the yellow decker on the left, that's a VR) were chosen to be sent to Sri Lanka as it was felt that given the conditions in Sri Lanka, ignoring the tsunami, they stood the best chance of working with minimal maintenance, and they were correct. What actually killed the Metrobuses off (and I remember having a conversation with one of the depot engineers in Negombo (I used to go almost annually there until I retired from work in 2016)) was actually the tyres. Metrobuses had a low profile tyre which wasn't easily (or cheaply) available in Sri Lanka (unlike tyres for Routemasters) and the cost of purchasing them eventually meant it wasn't worth the cost of keeping the Metrobuses on the road, hence why Routemasters out lived them (and you could stick a Tata / Isuzu engine and manual box in an RM, not a Metrobus - see my avatar).

I've a fair few pics of RMs and Metrobuses in Sri Lanka taken over the years (some have been published in magazines and books).

 

 

It seems most of the stuff sent over quickly disappeared without trace and saw little or no use there. Not really surprising given the variety of different types involved, all of which would have been unfamiliar in Sri Lanka. Sounds like while it was a noble idea in principle the execution didn't work out all that well and it didn't do a great deal of good in the longer term.

[busmansholiday]

16 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

It seems most of the stuff sent over quickly disappeared without trace and saw little or no use there. Not really surprising given the variety of different types involved, all of which would have been unfamiliar in Sri Lanka. Sounds like while it was a noble idea in principle the execution didn't work out all that well and it didn't do a great deal of good in the longer term.

Some Metrobuses were still going some years (I'd have to dig my pics out) after landing there. What is widely ignored (especially in this country) is the fact that Japan shipped a boat load ( pun intended) more single deck buses to Sri Lanka than the UK did. They were generally two door, manual gearbox, high floor Mitsubishi Fusos. These were obviously easier to maintain than low floor Metrobuses or the other UK 'gifts' and suited the road conditions out there. They weren't immune to failure, I've pics of them being canabilised for spares as well as RMs, Metrobuses and the Optare Columbo Rider (The Optare ColumboRider was designed by British bus manufacturer Optare. It was based on the Optare Delta / Optare StarRider - the word Optare should get @Inspector Morose frothing at the mouth).

[Yoss]

Tram going under the Bargate in Southampton. The clearance for the wires must be ridiculously small. 

They got round the problem, literally, by knocking down all buildings either side so you could just drive round it. Then they pedestrianised one side and made all the traffic go round the west side. Then they pedestrianised both sides and now it just sits on its own in a big open space. Which I'll admit is probably a good thing. 

[Yoss]

11 hours ago, EyesWeldedShut said:

I can give you a couple of locations:

Hoppa is in Terminus Place o/s Victoria Rail Stn 
77 bus may be Nth end Waterloo Bridge j/w Strand
24 (Grey Green) North Side Trafalgar Sq o/s National Gallery
22B New Oxford Street 
507 - Victoria Rail Station
16 Edgeware Road almost into Maida Vale
281 & T4 - no idea, feels like Kingston Town Centre/Penrhyn Road?
74? - see below
A1 - Grosvenor Gardens
74 - Camden Town o/s the World End Pub
134 o/s Camden Town Tube
279 - no idea, East London - clueless
172 - the bus lane in Trafalgar Square o/s Canada House
53 - Camden Town (guessed based on the Tube station and the #74 buses above)
253 - same as the 279 above - clueless
3 - Whitehall j/w Parliament Square, F&C Office behind
137 = see 74 above
11 - self explanatory
55 - Victoria
9 - Westminster Bridge towards Parliament Square
16 - Victoria
159 - Nth side, Trafalgar Square. Canada House in background
88 - not sure - maybe Pall Mall, looking to cut across n side Trafalgar Sq to hit Whitehall (as with the 159 above)
2b - Hyde Park Corner, Buck House garden wall behind
22 - it's on the bus stop
14 - Hyde Park Corner
73 - Victoria
38 - Victoria Street j/w Buckingham Palace Road
Bus garage - no idea
30 - Hyde Park Corner/Knightsbridge - the old St George's Hospital behind
171 - Somewhere around The Aldwych, I thought Melbourne Place but not 100%
 

I think the bus garage will be Shepherd's Bush judging by a combination of routes 9 and 12 and the 12 at the end says Shepherd's Bush Grn. The 9 ran to nearby Hammersmith but the yellow, red and white roundel would suggest 1987 to 92ish and Hammersmiths Riverside garage would have closed by then. 

[EyesWeldedShut]

9 minutes ago, Yoss said:

I think the bus garage will be Shepherd's Bush judging by a combination of routes 9 and 12 and the 12 at the end says Shepherd's Bush Grn. The 9 ran to nearby Hammersmith but the yellow, red and white roundel would suggest 1987 to 92ish and Hammersmiths Riverside garage would have closed by then. 

I'll be honest and say that a London bus (to me) was always just a 'Red Routemaster' - I had no idea on the different flavours/garages and so on. 
I did know which buses went where in W1, SW1, W2 and NW8 and also which ones would get me to/from work and around the place. With the open platforms we could cadge a lift around Oxford Street by hopping on and off at the lights - H&S nightmare that's be these days.
In the early eighties you could even ring up County Hall and they'd send you out complete timetables for any route/tube line you requested - handy for the 6am start (other than Sunday 'cos there was nuffink running that early - shanks' pony or pedal cycle )

[Yoss]

And now I think about it there is a small white S on the body side, just behind the fleet number, so that would confirm Shepherd's Bush. Some London garage codes seemingly made no sense at all but that one is fairly straightforward. 

[cms206]

2 hours ago, Yoss said:

And now I think about it there is a small white S on the body side, just behind the fleet number, so that would confirm Shepherd's Bush. Some London garage codes seemingly made no sense at all but that one is fairly straightforward. 

London garage codes are fantastically confusing at times; when us Scots hit the capital in 2023 there were,  naturally, a smattering of spotters among us. Compo (real name Bob, but ended up on the front page of the Glasgow Evening Times with a fantastic compo face) was highly impressed...

"... BW for Bow, BK for Barking, HK for Hackney, RM for Romford, LI for Lea Interchange, it all makes sense!"

"... Romford is NS, Rainham is RM. They do all make sense though Compo, TL is Catford, AP was Seven Kings, Tottenham is AR, Camberwell is Q, Leyton is T, Sutton is A- "

"Eh?! WHAT?!"

 

Used to only refer to garages by their code in his presence thereafter 😂

[Yoss]

1 hour ago, cms206 said:

London garage codes are fantastically confusing at times; when us Scots hit the capital in 2023 there were,  naturally, a smattering of spotters among us. Compo (real name Bob, but ended up on the front page of the Glasgow Evening Times with a fantastic compo face) was highly impressed...

"... BW for Bow, BK for Barking, HK for Hackney, RM for Romford, LI for Lea Interchange, it all makes sense!"

"... Romford is NS, Rainham is RM. They do all make sense though Compo, TL is Catford, AP was Seven Kings, Tottenham is AR, Camberwell is Q, Leyton is T, Sutton is A- "

"Eh?! WHAT?!"

 

Used to only refer to garages by their code in his presence thereafter 😂

Some don't make sense at first but after a bit of digging they do. Some just don't make sense at all. 

The NS you refer to is for North Street, the same as the long gone Victoria, my bus's first garage, was GM for Gillingham Street. 

TL for Catford was Tillings Lewisham. Tillings were one of the pre London Transport companies so there are, or were, a few garages down south with codes starting with T. Like TC for South Croydon - Tillings Croydon. 

But the others you mention I have no idea. There might be reasons that I don't know or they might be completely random. Like X for Westbourne Park or W for Cricklewood or Hounslow AV.

After a while you just accept it and think nothing of it until somebody mentions it and you remember what a daft system it seems.