Fatha_Outlaw Shite - misfuelled foolishness 28/12

[outlaw118]

The old fella has decided that he wants to change the gifferwagon to a Skoda Roomster. Provisionally, as it takes him and mutha a fecking age to make up their minds about anything. My grandad will be a regular passenger, he's 84 and getting a bit wobbly, so access is an issue, and the Yeti is deemed to be " too dear". Lowering the VED bracket is a good thing too, paying £240 odd per year on the Fuckus.

All i know about the Roomster is that A) It's a Felicia with a box on the back, errr.....

Any particular engine/spec to look for? It won't be new, possibly up to 2 or 3 years old, not sure of budget at this point, but say £9k.

Wassitwurf?

Ford focus 2.0 ghia estate, in silver, about 125k miles, fair nick. 53 reg. This will be part ex'd if bought from a dealer, or would it be better to flog it privately?

 

All opinions appreciated.

 

They are not interested in a Horsey Horseless by the way. Not enough room.

[Felly Magic]

It's more or less a Fabia van, that looks like it has been drawn by Stevie Wonder on an off day. It makes the Yeti look almost palletable, and is the Skoda dealers struggle to shift. Reliable though.

[fiatdaft]

I would replace the doblo with a yeti but they are expensive,as for the p/x value,this site

 

 

http://www.vauxhall.co.uk/offers-financ ... y-car.html

 

is pretty accurate but obv.doesn't take into account dings/scuffs etc,i reckon if your getting more than a grand for the focus (if tidy) your either doing well or the car your looking at is comparativly pricey or been sitting a wee while,but hey don't take that as gospel !

[Akron]

Roomster is great however it is a Fabia at the front old Octavia at the back so if access is an issue with Focus I would imagine you will have similar issues with a Roomster.

IMHO the new Fiat Doblo Peugeot Partner Citroen Berlingo are fantastic giffer wagons wide opening doors sliding on the back, upright seats and loads of leg room. Roomster doors are hinged and I find they don't open far enough also the high shoulder line really restricts rear vision.

If it has to be a Roomster, avoid the 1.6 and 1.4 Diesels they are liabilities the 1.9tdi pd was the best diesel however now phased out. The 1.6 petrol is a reasonable motor.

[outlaw118]

Cheers chaps, hopefully will go and look at a local one at the weekend, keep the opinions coming!!

I will report back with updates, on how often the decisions change!!

[scooters]

Skizzer is your man - he bought a Roomster a couple of years ago and it is his main car - traded in his porker Cayman for it....

 

loves it and highly rates it as a sensible moden car

 

(that is until of course he gets that Lancis Dedra Turbo he found in that shed up and running )

[andrew e]

Avoid Essex Ford and visit the nice Prestons in Writtle, avoid the 3 cylinder derv as it sounds like its broken too, Try and get 15" wheels or the ride will be terrible. The big thing is that curved part of the door, is a real annoyance out of the corner of your eye.

 

What about an A Klasse?

[Rocket88]

Avoid Essex Ford and visit the nice Prestons in Writtle, avoid the 3 cylinder derv as it sounds like its broken too, Try and get 15" wheels or the ride will be terrible. The big thing is that curved part of the door, is a real annoyance out of the corner of your eye.

 

What about an A Klasse?

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The spawn of bloody Satan. There are not words [apart from spawn of Satan] HOW MUCH I HATE THESE THINGS...............

[andrew e]

Er, I really like them I'd have one now except Mrs E shares Colc's views

[Father Ted]

Berlingo Multispace et al.

 

Sti up and beg driving position

Sliding rear doors

Excellent driving & passenger positions - excellent ingress and egress for the less elastically bodied.

 

Cheap as chips.

[outlaw118]

Thread resurrection!!

 

After much to-ing and fro-ing, and mind changing a "new" FathaMobile has been purchased.

It's not a Skudder, the old fella put his foot down and said that if he wasn't allowed a Yeti - his preference, then he wasn't having a Roomster.

Attention then turned to a 2nd hand Toyota Yaris Verso

which both myself and bro tried to sit in and found impossible to get a decent position, and frankly is as ugly as sin. And expensive - strangely Mutha_Outlaw liked it, but for the same money the garage was after for this, the old fella could have had a Yeti, previously refused on grounds of cost.

A Fiat Doblo was found and looked at; it was agreed that it was cheap enough, "nice colour" but Mutha vetoed as "it looks like a van with windows". Theres a reason for that......

On the same basis the Peugeot Partner Teepee and Citroen Berlingo were both excluded.

Running out of possibilties a Ford Fusion was suggested, and I found one in Dagenham Motors Gillingham, within budget, right colour, 1.6 Dizzler.

Not the actual car, link won't work, but this is the exact spec and colour.

 

A deal was done, car was £7800ish, £1000ish for Focus, collected Saturday 9th June. I drove it home, and frankly was quite impressed. It's the 1600 TDCi lump, and goes well, and despite not hanging about, averaged 52mpg on the way home.

MA and Pa happy bunnies, i come home and order a set of mats off Egay, and sit back to bask in the glory that I find myself covered in for finding a decent motor, at a decent price. Smart.

 

But

 

Wednesday 13th I get a text message from Mutha, saying that they're waiting for the AA to turn up.

They'd been visiting an elderly relative, parked up, and the engine cooling fan had cut in. It didn't stop when the ignition was switched off, but they thought nothing of it. Upon returning to the car a couple of hours later it wouldn't start, they battery didn't have enough juice left, but the fan was still running. AA were called, and eventually they sent a contractor, Dynes, to come and rescue them. He fiddled about for a while, and diagnosed a faulty switch - well done Sherlock Holmes - and then proceeded to unplug the fan, and bung a booster pack on the battery. It still wouldn't go, so a phone call was made to Dagenham Motors Gillingham in order to a) moan and tell them that it was going to be recovered there. They suggested that it was taken to DM Barking as it was closer, and Mutha was put through to them. She was then passed from pillar to post and eventually back to DM Gillingham when DM Barking refused to help.

Car was recovered back to DM Gillingham, and she was given on of the salesman's cars, a 12 plate Festa Titanium to use.

Moving on to Friday 15th, Mutha gets a call, saying that they've replaced the switch, but apparently when matey from Dynes tried to jump start it he's mullered the engine management module, and they won't repair that under warranty, and negotiations were taking place between themselves, The AA, and Dynes over responsibilty. As Mutha said to them, why not just fix it, and sort it out amongst yourselves, but this won't happen unfortunately. So now she's got this Fiesta which she doesn't really like, and the prospect of weighing out a £500 excess if anyone as much as breathes near it, so she doesn't want to drive anywhere!!

It's now Thursday. ie 8 days later, and she still hasn't got the Fusion back.

 

What a fucking palaver. I'm not going to get involved next time they want to change cars....

 

Does the explanation re engine chip sound plausible, or are they trying it on?

[alf892]

Sounds plausible...........it is very easy to give a car with a flat battery a nasty spike which can kill any black box. But the contractor should have been aware............you have been able to buy jump leads for years with surge protection and a decent jump box should be same. Liability is firmly with the AA to sort the car out though.........what they do with the contractor is their issue.

 

BTW if jump starting without surge protection just switch loads of electricals on in the 'donor' then connect leads and let run in for a couple of mins before switching the electrics off..........this minimises the currents available to give a spike

[outlaw118]

UPDATE:

With the repair bill now at £1400, the AA have decided that they are not liable, and are refusing to pay - I'm assuming that Dynes don't want to cough up either.

Mutha_Outlaw has told Dagenham Motors that she is rekecting the car, they are saying that she can't do that - which I believe is bollocks....Sale Of Goods Act etc, fit for purpose etc....?

The plot thickens.

[ashmicro]

They're all talking shite if you ask me, and the only person involved here who hasn't made a balls-up is your mum.

 

If it was me, I'd leave the rejection issue to one side for the moment, and say to the dealer "Look, I've taken advice on this. Between you and your agents you've damaged my car. Sort it out. Who is at fault is not my problem"

 

Hope it all gets worked out chief.

[AnthonyG]

I would be speaking to a solicitor re the AA and their fuckwit contractors (yet another reason not to use the new shiny, shitty AA).

 

Not sure the sale of good acts applies here as the car has been 'fiddled with' by a third party after the sale. IIRC the dealer's has no responsibility to pay if they can prove a third party f**ked up the car after it left their premises.

[Albert Ross]

Sure, but it wouldn't have been fiddled with if the fan switch hadn't fucked up in the first place. That's the causal part. The big shitter is Colin and his special resin. Oh wait, wrong Circus. If Mr AA had recovered the car to the dealer, without trying to actually help the owners, then this would not be happening. Modern cars ARE extremely sensitive to power spikes, and as such, should not have booster packs applied. I lose count..... The AA operative is at fault. No shiz. DO the cunt. BTW, is their old Focus still there? Could they not just clamber into that, and carry on, rejecting the car, and claim compensation?

[outlaw118]

Cheers for the replies chaps, as far as I'm aware Mutha has already asked for the Focus to be returned, and that's not going to happen; I'm guessing it's either been auctioned or gone over the bridge.

She's been a subscriber to Which? magazine for years, so that may be done, and she's already been to the CAB.

Like Ash said, the only one entirely blameless is Mutha_Outlaw, who's bank account is damaged to the tune of £6500+, for a car she can't drive.

This is the AA contractor,

http://www.dynesautoservices.co.uk/

You will note they're Office Of Fair Trading Approved, and have some kind of ISO certification blah blah.

I'm guessing that the OFT would be interested.....??

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Blimey, i wouldnt like to have to get to the bottom of that one, its all very well saying its the ford dealers fault for the thing having a duff fan switch in the first place, but if I was running a garage i jolly well wouldnt be coughing up for stuff that AN Other recovery dude had damaged. Plus how is anyone ever going to prove that he did actually damage it through negligence? What a nightmare.

[Ross_K]

Solicitor time.

 

No amount of internet experts are gonna get to the bottom of this one.

 

Unlikely that the car can be rejected for what was a "minor" inherent fault, ie a faulty fan switch.

 

The garage supplied a car with a faulty part. Fair enough they should be on the hook for that, but I don't see why they should be on the hook for the AA's fuckup as regards the fried ECU or whatever the fuck happened when they guy jumpstarted the car. But then, how do you prove they did it and not ma_outlaw?

 

Fucking nightmare. As the guy in Full Metal Jacket said, "it's a huge shit sandwich, and we're all gonna have to take a bite."

 

When dealing with dealers, pay for your car with a credit card so you can do a chargeback when things go south (or at least be able to use the threat of a chargeback). Ask me how I know...

[AeroNautiCal]

That car needs an INDEPENDENT engineers report!

 

That apart, perhaps contact/pressure from Which and the CAB will make the garage more focused on providing the lady with a degree of service, rather than trying to fob her off!

[messerschmitt owner]

why not speak to

1. your insurance company and see if they will cover it

 

and

 

2. the legal advice part of your insurance to see if they will chase a claim.

[outlaw118]

I'm going to speak to her today, and see if she's got legal cover in her insurance; if not I'll contact my employee scheme people.

I agree with Reg Bo11 and Ross K, it's turning into a proper 'mare, but ultimately, I reckon, the blame lies with Dynes. Whether they are indemnified by the AA or not, they should a) have half a clue that this was a possibilty, and if it all goes tits up, as it has here, they should have some kind of insurance or whatever to pay for errors.

Will update again soon....

[Cavcraft]

I reckon that too, Bob. Surely to God if they're recovery agents/operators they are sent on training courses and instructed about things like this? If the AA chose to use contractors then it's up to them to ensure they're competant.

Imho it's the AA who should be taken to task, the contract was with them and if they can't provide suitable staff (their own or others) then they should be liable themselves and take it up with Dynes.

 

Can't imagine the AA will want the publicity over this so if you start meeting brick walls it could even be worth contacting motoring magazines as well as consumer type publications.

[michael1703]

In Dynes defence, they were only doing what everybody else would of done.

 

If you google ford fusion jump start and flat battery etc there are no other cases

 

I found this

http://www.fordmanuals.org/page-254.html

 

but thats about it

 

Is Dagenham motors lying about the jumpstart?

[scooters]

That car needs an INDEPENDENT engineers report!

 

That apart, perhaps contact/pressure from Which and the CAB will make the garage more focused on providing the lady with a degree of service, rather than trying to fob her off!

 

+1 on that

 

It sounds like there is a comedy of fxxxk ups around this.

 

Question - when the chap from Dyanes jumped the car did he connect both leads form the jump pack to the battery or did he connect the earth lead to the chassis? Depends also on the quality of the jump pack - modern sophisticated ones will not spike and therefore not damage the ECU, cheap and nasty opnes can do which is why it is important to earth th jump pack on the chassis rather than on the battery.

 

So the squealer is alledging that the AA Dyanes chap fried the ECU - how do you know that they didn't fry it in the workshop after rescue? How do they know if the ECU was not at fault - how do they know whether or not the fault is actually with the ECU in the first place - have they done anything other than plug in the OBD2?

 

The reason why I ask is that IMHO modern fords especially Focus's are not great when it comes to 'lectrical faults - I have fixed around 4 cars this year all Fords, 3 Focus's and a Mondeo - all of which had an issue with the electrics,not halped by pisspoor build quality. One thing they all had in common was that the ford dealers they had been to had ALL misdiagnosed the issue - all they had done is read the fault code and replaced the faulty component. Problem is that OBD2 may well idendify a fault with a system BUT the actual fault can be elsewhere. EG - corroded positive battery cables - I've seen Ford Focus's , 3 years old with badly oxidised cables - so bad the whole cable is green when stripped back, this shows up as an ECU fault on the OBD2 but has nothing to do with the ECU.

 

That's why it is important for you to get an independent engineer's report.

 

The Focus has a 3 amp ECU error circuit - even if the ECU is borked this circuit should still work when powered.

 

Personally I would not trust the dealer as far as I could throw him, he's already proven himself less than effective by selling you acar with a dodget fan switch, he seems to be overlooking the fact that if the fan hadn't failed then the car wou;d not have broken down.

 

Having spent many hours in the depths of new fords - I would never buy one - the build quality is an example of cost engineering at its worst.

[carlo]

I can only sympathise with your family's predicament. I will say though that these threads are very interesting, and just one reason I suspect why we love our old shite so much. Sorry to ramble on about Peugeot 405s but I've driven three different 2.0 petrol versions for the last seven years, and not one has ever had a mechanical fault. Wear and tear, i.e brakes yes. And if ever I was confronted with a £1400 bill (which would certainly wipe out any fuel economy gain), well the decision's a whole lot easier when the thing cost you £300 in the first place.

[outlaw118]

Something strange has happened.

 

Mutha_Outlaw spoke to AA Customer Relations on Monday, and they emailed her a copy of Dyne's job card, and a "staement" (for the want of a better word) from the operative. This had been sent to Dagenham Motors along with a "strongly worded" email from the AA, and they were waiting for a response. The contents of the email were not revealed.....

 

Wednesday 27th AM, Ma gets a call from Dagenham Motors, asking for her to take the spare car key in to them, so it can be recoded, as they have changed the ECU "under warranty". This was done, and the car collected this morning (Thursday).

 

Upon collection the service manager was very apologetic, and explained that in the last 8 years of doing this job, he had only had an ECU fry itself once before, as usually the fusebox will intervene to prevent damage. Ma asked him if the fuse had blown in this one, and he said no!? Surely that smells a bit? Did it actually have a fuse in there in the first place?

 

Whatever. Car is now home @ Outlaw Towers (OAP section), and we await further mishaps.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Sounds like a right old carry-on, if its working OK now best to put it behind you!!! I think they're quite an appealing little thing those fusions, a bit pointless which always attracts me to a car.

[outlaw118]

The old dear read up all the blurb in Which? and apparently the target audience was for trendy "urban" types who wanted a psuedo 4x4/leisure car, but missed completely, and it became a haven for old giffers and Motability types. PHAIL.

 

To be honest, I quite like them; like you say, a bit pointless on the face of it, and cheaper than the Fiesta equivalent, but ultimately will hopefully do a job for the OLDZ.

[Albert Ross]

Giffers go for them because they sit a lot higher, therefore a bit like one of those springy-up chairs you see advertised in the back of the Daily Fail.