How do manufacturers get away with.......

[Albert Ross]

Yeah, and if it tipped the scales at over 1200kg I would be surprised.

A modern of the same ilk is about 1600kg..... Hence the greater performance required from the engine to make it do the same thing. If they lost the lard, the car would use less fuel, and not wear tyres out so quick. Etc. Even my Sierra weighs in at around 1150kg..... current Mondeo is about 1700kg....

[CIH]

Not really causing great concern yet, but something i think most people haven't thought about..................

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45439574/ns ... tEk3mp0Srg

 

"With its OnStar safety communications systems a part of the car, "GM knows real time about any crash significant enough to potentially compromise battery integrity," the automaker said"

 

Wow, that's kinda sinister...

[M'coli]

Yeah, and if it tipped the scales at over 1200kg I would be surprised.

A modern of the same ilk is about 1600kg..... Hence the greater performance required from the engine to make it do the same thing. If they lost the lard, the car would use less fuel, and not wear tyres out so quick. Etc. Even my Sierra weighs in at around 1150kg..... current Mondeo is about 1700kg....

This is where the WRC rules and NCAP have ruined it for the petrolheads - according to Carfolio the original mk2 Astra GTE(5 door, they don't list the 3 door) weighed 930 kg - and you can bet that the first 5000 3-doors produced had sweet FA electrical help for wing mirrors, windows nor a sunroof as these were the ones used to homolagate the car's weight as low as possible for competition. Now that only 25 kits or so need to be built for competition, there is no incentive to keep cars light for homolagation reasons. Which is crap.

[myglaren]

Not really causing great concern yet, but something i think most people haven't thought about..................

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45439574/ns ... tEk3mp0Srg

 

"With its OnStar safety communications systems a part of the car, "GM knows real time about any crash significant enough to potentially compromise battery integrity," the automaker said"

 

Wow, that's kinda sinister...

That link keeps crashing Firefox

[fiatdaft]

Not all moderns all slow and overweight,my daily weighs just under 1200 kg (1185) has 180 bhp and 201lb of torque so reasonably quick and handles well enough.

[R9UKE]

The electric hand brake on my mothers new Renault Grand Scenic is great, no fuss, auto disengages immediately and to turn it on you touch a switch on the console. Bloody sight easier than yanking a lever up and down, especially fannying about with the handbrake on hill starts.

 

Someone else appreciating a Renault! I'm no longer alone!!!!!

[Guest]

Front fog* lights that can be switched on with just side lights?

Aren't you meant to use foglights with only sidelights? If you use dipped/full beams in fog, it'll just reflect off the fog and reduce visibility further.

[M'coli]

^^^ Exactly.

[Craig the Princess]

Front fog* lights that can be switched on with just side lights?

Aren't you meant to use foglights with only sidelights? If you use dipped/full beams in fog, it'll just reflect off the fog and reduce visibility further.

 

Dipped headlights are only reflected in really dense fog (so dense I can only remeber it once in the past 10 years). Main beam in for is for r.tards.

[barefoot]

Yeah, and if it tipped the scales at over 1200kg I would be surprised.

A modern of the same ilk is about 1600kg..... Hence the greater performance required from the engine to make it do the same thing. If they lost the lard, the car would use less fuel, and not wear tyres out so quick. Etc. Even my Sierra weighs in at around 1150kg..... current Mondeo is about 1700kg....

This is where the WRC rules and NCAP have ruined it for the petrolheads - according to Carfolio the original mk2 Astra GTE(5 door, they don't list the 3 door) weighed 930 kg - and you can bet that the first 5000 3-doors produced had sweet FA electrical help for wing mirrors, windows nor a sunroof as these were the ones used to homolagate the car's weight as low as possible for competition. Now that only 25 kits or so need to be built for competition, there is no incentive to keep cars light for homolagation reasons. Which is crap.

 

& a Smart weighs more than a Mk5 Cortina.

[M'coli]

Front fog* lights that can be switched on with just side lights?

Aren't you meant to use foglights with only sidelights? If you use dipped/full beams in fog, it'll just reflect off the fog and reduce visibility further.

 

Dipped headlights are only reflected in really dense fog (so dense I can only remeber it once in the past 10 years). Main beam in for is for r.tards.

Which is where foglights have their real use! Think about it - the law says something to make us all visible to other roadusers - it's an old law that's still relevent, but difficult to amend to allow those who have the correct equipment to be able to use that equipment corectly and exclusively. There has to be a catch-all to comply with the law (use of dipped lights) so that (supposedly) everyone switches on their dipped lights.

 

Let's put it another way. Scotchbrite reflective material works in the way it does because the source of the light is close in orientation to the receptor of the light - this is why I can see my dog's reflective vest when I'm using my headtorch in the dark. When it's misty, however, I can't see sweet fanny adams unless I hold the headtorch as far from my eyes as possible, even though this stops the reflective strips from reflecting, because the fog reflects the light from the headtorch back to me.

[eddyramrod]

The point of contention with front fog lights is not their use in fog. It's their use in other conditions. Specifically, ALL other conditions, by self-centred boneheads who seem determined to blind everyone else! NB: there isn't a front foglight anywhere in the world that is correctly aimed. Not one. FACT!

[Pete-M]

The point of contention with front fog lights is not their use in fog. It's their use in other conditions. Specifically, ALL other conditions, by self-centred boneheads who seem determined to blind everyone else! NB: there isn't a front foglight anywhere in the world that is correctly aimed. Not one. FACT!

 

You'll find there are four. Two on a Jag, two on a Jeep.

 

The front foglight thing is getting worse since loads of manufacturers are putting DRLs in the foglamp. I saw an old M reg Fiesta trying to pretend it had DRLs earlier.

 

One front fog related gubbin I like is the cornering lights some manufacturers are fitting. At first I thought there were a lot of new cars about with faulty foglamps and then I drove a Merc with 'em. Got told off for throwing it sideways to see which light comes on when oversteering... WANLI rear tyres on an E220 CDi with Michelins on the front is a win win sideways situation in the damp.

[Father Ted]

K11 Micra 1.0 = 775Kgs

K12 Micra 1.0 = 940Kgs

K13 Micra 1.2 = 1425Kgs

 

I mean WTF?

 

Oh and DLR's - sorry, but they are totally wank, even cars with them on from new look gash.

[Justin Case]

Saab 99, 1161 kg kerb weight (whatever that is ) but a roomy car.

 

Before:

 

After:

 

helped by

a. Complicated (tube within a tube) and immensely strong screen pillars

b. Beams in doors plus bottom of door overlapping sill, giving four layers of swedish steel between you and the accident.

 

The light weight was probably less due to the construction, which was extremely solid with thick steel, than the lack of air-con, sunroof, electric seats, in-car entertainment (not even a radio as standard) electric mirrors, central locking, satnv, etc etc, all of which add weight.

 

I believe that the real engineering in modern cars (XJ and A8 excepted), other than in developing clever engine electronics and braking systems (eg ABS and its derivatives) is pathetic, and unless forced by legislation manufacturers aren't bothered with improving cars, just adding useless gimmicks.

 

The answer to the original question is that manufacturers get away with it is because there enough pathetic new car buyers who are only interested in their car a status symbol to allow them to get away with shoddy corner-cutting engineering (eg DMFs rather than designing a diesel to run smoothly in the first place) in the bits that can't be used to show off with.

[fiatdaft]

Did you not read my example? also we have never had it so good with modern performance cars with regards to power,performance,handling,choice price!

[wuvvum]

I had a Rover P6 once with factory-fit front foglights. They were switched on by turning the headlamp knob to the left from the off position - which switched on the fogs, sidelights and rear lights. It was physically impossible to have the fogs and dipped beams on at the same time.

[M'coli]

Did you not read my example? also we have never had it so good with modern performance cars with regards to power,performance,handling,choice price!

1185kg is still pretty heavy, I wouldn't like to have to get that up to bump-start speed on the flat. What length and width is it?