Range Rover Classic

[Skizzer]

Right, time for another shite purchase. My Yeti is being shared with a friend who is starting up his own business, but it's depreciating away and keeps having minor niggles. It's been a good car but it's time to move on.

 

Plan A is a Range Rover of the 1989-93 era, with the 3.9 injection but before the airbag dash and (God forbid) air suspension. It meets all the requirements, I've always wanted a Rangie, and they definitely seem to have bottomed out value-wise.

 

Most seem to be either completely shagged or very expensive (anything up to £15k even for an 80s/90s 4-door, lots more for restored early 2-doors) but there are a few respectable-looking ones around the £3.5k mark:

 

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C603378

 

This one is a pretty crap listing (few and poor pics, lots of 'wonderful' and 'beautiful' but zero specifics) but it might actually be an OK truck. Is there anyone in Southend could go and have a poke at it for me please? There's a beer or something in it for you if so.

 

There's also this one in Rugby, which has just come down to £3,500 from a very optimistic £4,850:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1990-RANGE-ROVER-CLASSIC-VOGUE-SE-3-9-EFI-WITH-LPG-LONG-MOT-LEATHER-WOOD-/281689540824

 

Bit leggier and the seller sounds a bit of a knob ("

PLEASE DONT ASK FOR MORE PHOTOS, AND PLEASE DONT ASK THE CONDITION")

, but also looks quite fair. I could get over to Rugby myself next week to go and look at it.

 

 

So, advice please: I think I know some of the things to watch for:

• Inner wings
• Rear crossmember
• Rusty tailgate and bonnet
• Rust around the roof/gutter
• Boot floor
• Clonk going into reverse = propshaft wear
• Sagging headlining
• Lacquer peel

Anything much else? Is this a stupid, ruinous idea and I should run screaming into therapy?

 

Oh, and yes I do know that Africa is full of Toyotas instead because they're so reliable. I don't fancy a Land Cruiser/Patrol though.

[Bren]

Liner problems on 3.9 engine.

[Skizzer]

^ Thanks - warning signs being blue smoke, then?

[richardthestag]

 

Plan A is a Range Rover of the 1989-93 era, 

 

Done 100k in my current RRC. I PMd you

[Skizzer]

Top info Mr The Stag, thank you very much.  I owe you a beer.  

[cort16]

I know these have there troubles but it's still pretty much the only big 4x4 I'd own. If you buy a nice one now you're not going to lose money on it either.

 

I like the blue one as it's got MOO and LPG but the seller said his

 

 

 

THIS IS SIMPLY NOT LIKE MOST OF THE OLD WRECKS THAT ARE AROUND AND WITH PRICES RAPIDLY APPROACHING 25K FOR A NEW PERFECT ONE, ITS TIME TO BUY NOW..... ACCORDING TO QUENTIN WILLSON, AND HE IS NEVER WRONG.

 

That's got to be a red flag.

[EssDeeWon]

Hi Skizzer - I am in Southend and more than happy to view / drive / take extra fotos / check the seller is not a dodgy geezer etc etc...

[Skizzer]

Sir, you are a scholar and a gentleman.  Massive thanks.  I'll get hold of him/her and find out more.

[LabRat]

Watch for the rear seatbelt mounting plates in the wheel arches coming adrift... I had an 84 "B" plate which did this, much to the horror of the mot man. Check the transfer box engages and works nicely, can be eye watering if they break! (If it's 2 wheel drive, run away!!)

 

Great fun to drive, but mine had the 3.5 twin carb and manual gearbox, which was a bit agricultural to say the least.

 

An auto is a nice thing if it all works right, can be ruinous on the fuel though- expect 10-12 mpg round town and be happy if you get more.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

Buy one now, I prevaricated over ones in this sort of condition at £1500 about 18 months ago- they're not going to get cheaper.

Remember that most mechanical bits are likely to be shared with Disco's of the same era and there's thousands of those getting OLLIed and scrapped daily- parts are everywhere for peanuts- at the moment....

 

That Old Money* looking one with the plate is trying too hard, does that number actually come back to that car? I might have had a mate* that put a valuable looking plate on cars in Autotrader ads to give the impression it was from a good home. I bet if you went to look at it ,it's in a yard or outside a council house, people with numbers like that and houses like that don't usually bother to clean the hay and horseshit out of their cars before sale.

[wuvvum]

What you need is a nice four-headed monster.

[skattrd]

What's wrong with the bagged ones? I liked my 1993 RRC with the air bags. They're not particularly complicated and when they're working well I think they're much better than springs. I found that driving on the motorway in a baggeed one was much nicer as they lower a few centimetres at speed which cuts down on the body roll. Plus having a button to make the thing go up and down is ace.

 

Alternately Skizzer, do you fancy a trip to France/Portugal, we can both go and get some cheapo 3dr ones instead

[Skizzer]

I dare say the floaty suspension is very good when it works, but it's definitely one more thing to go wrong - my logic (admittedly ill-informed) is that you might as well save lots of upfront dosh and get a disposable P38 if you're going to have lots of electronics.

 

Could well be up for a trip to drag a 3 door one back from Foreignshire.  Would need a big tow car though... like a Range Rover... 

 

Seriously, that could be on the cards for later in the year/next year when my big shed is (hopefully) finally finished.  

[Skizzer]

What you need is a nice four-headed monster.

 

Haven't you met the wife? [/LesDawson]

 

Seriously, what is a four-headed monster?  Sorry, I should probably get that.

[Vladimir Putin]

Why you not think of Russian car? Stupid person.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2009-LADA-NIVA-4X4-GREEN-LHD-/251976448880

 

Is perfect in every way, also cheap.  Is in Poland so good collection thread.  Many wins. 

[richardthestag]

need a later range rover to tow an earlier one though. otherway around you would be overweight

 

200miles towing 2.3tons

 

was a little thirsty but still averaged 12mpg. Driving over 50mph was scary brown trouser stuff so I was relegated to truck bothering on M4 and M5

 

[richardthestag]

Haven't you met the wife? [/LesDawson]

 

Seriously, what is a four-headed monster?  Sorry, I should probably get that.

 

2.4 VM dizzle

 

sounds nice but aint a v8, rather have a two headed monster

[Skizzer]

Ah, right.  I really should have got that as I used to own a Ninety with the 2.5 VM engine.  Funnily enough it had a cracked head.

 

Might consider a 200Tdi but really want a V8 because NOISE.

[Junkman]

Is this a stupid, ruinous idea and I should run screaming into therapy?

It certainly is and you certainly should. AFTER you bought one.

 

This is what my stupid idea looked like:

 

 

I'm ruined and in therapy ever since.

[Tayne]

I dare say the floaty suspension is very good when it works, but it's definitely one more thing to go wrong - my logic (admittedly ill-informed) is that you might as well save lots of upfront dosh and get a disposable P38 if you're going to have lots of electronics.

 

 

 

Come on now.

The logical conclusion to this is to get a bicycle because it doesn't have an engine to go wrong.

 

Air suspension isn't complicated, has been in buses and trucks for years and can be entirely rebuilt for around £400

 

The green one looks great apart from the lack of air con (there's a lot of glass) and the grey one seems to be owned by a wanker.

[anonymous user]

^ Thanks - warning signs being blue smoke, then?

If I recall correctly, amongst other things the cylinder liners like to slip leading to odd pressurising of the cooling system and consequent overheating when it spits all the water out. I may also incorrectly recall that after a certain point the engines were fitted with "top hat" liners with a lip to stop them slipping.

 

I was told all this by a friend, who had this trouble with a 3.9 Discovery, but I was only half listening at the time and my brain has turned to mush over the last few years so it could all be wrong.

[AnthonyG]

What's the mileage on the Rugby one? There's some guff about its been regularly used and this is good blah blah blah and later on 'service history up to 145k' I wouldn't be surprised if it's done 350k or something. Seller sounds like a right tw@t but worth a look if you are in the area.

[andy18s]

Land Rover never fitted top hat liners to a production engine.It was a cure that they came up with for the slipped liner issue

It's more of an issue on the bigger stuff like the 4.6 as there is less metal left in the casting once it's been bored to take the oversize production liner.

 

Any 3.9 thats running with no sign of overheating/pressurising hoses should be safe enough now and If the engine does goes tits up,then 2nd replacements are cheap and easy to find.

 

My Disco is coming up on 160k and the temp gauge sits just below half on the gauge,and doesn't move when left to tick over for a bit,towing the caravan around or "making progress" around the lanes....

 

If you want a Classic,get it now as prices won't go any lower for something decent

[michael1703]

I had a classic with a 200tdi, it was pokey enough and gave high 20's mpg

[Des]

The green one looks good, G reg was a very good year for them, from about '92 they really went to shit, that one with the wanker plate doesn't even warrant clicking the link, fur coat and no knickers.

The later engines were bad news for liner failure, on a really bad one you can actually hear the liner batting up and down, the block got bigger mains when it went from 3.9 to 4.0 / 4.6 although the bores stayed the same size, longer crank gave the extra 600cc, I played with a few late blocks but it all ended in tears, my theory for the failure is the outer row of head studs that were deleted when the mains grew bigger, I only managed to throw an engine together that stayed together once I drilled and tapped to retrofit the missing bastards, was a weirdo stopgap of a block with small mains restricting me to 3.9 crank so I'm missing out on those extra 5 or 6 awesome horsepowerz. 

The velour seats are wonderfully comfy, the ones in dead skin, not so much, they're nice with aircon, but you lose a couple of useful cubby holes. I'd love an early one, before the interior was filled with brittle plastic they were very airy and spacious feeling inside.

[Skizzer]

Outstanding advice, thanks to all.  This place is what it used to be.

 

Right, conclusion is I still want to get one, but the grey one smells iffy and while the green one looks potentially promising it's about six hours' drive away.  So I'm going to buy Andy18s's V8 Disco 1 for now and keep an eye out for the right Rangie to come along a bit closer to home.  Or go with Skattrd and get a cheap 3-door in France or Iberia to tidy up and make £££s.  Or both.

 

Hope that makes sense - it does to me, sort of.

[EssDeeWon]

That green one is a manual which kind of loses that RR vogue smoothness, and the wheels are not RR wheels, maybe they are off a discovery?

 

I test drove a K reg 3.9 Vogue SE about 8 years ago, always wanted a classic RR but it wasn't to be, now they are becoming expensive.

[Skizzer]

Aye, they look like Discovery wheels and the three-spokes are very much part of the RR experience I think.  I've PMd you re going to look at it - huge thanks for the offer - but it's a bloody long way from here so I'll probably pass.  Now I can sell the Skoda at leisure and wait for the right one to come along, hopefully before prices go up much further.

[brickwall]

I have a 3.9 in council spec. It is simply awesome and I've had it three years now and it may well be a keeper. PArts are same as the Discovery for the most part. Watch out where steel meets alloy as the steel will rust quickly.

 

Death wobble is common and can be annoying to track down the culprit.

 

It will leak. It will leak oil, but that's not really a problem as it shows it is working normally. Water leaks in to the footwells and can be difficult to track down. Many panels are fixed together with mastik and it will be all crumbly.

 

Clunk on take of means A-frame universal joint is goosed. It's a bugger of a job but once it is done you get a knighthood.

 

Don't mention fuel consumption.

 

Liners can slip, more so on the 3.9 and larger.

 

Plastic  becomes crumbly in the cabin knobs and stuff.

 

PM me any time  for any other further stuff if you need it.

[richardthestag]

I must have looked at 20 or so cars 9 years ago when I bought my 93 Blue 3.9 Vogue. There was a lot of rubbish about then and I had to chose carefully. It replaced a particularly tired and unfortunate 92 RR Vogue with terminal engine liner issues and quite a bit of rot under the multicoloured panels. I knew it had liner issues when I bought it, k-sealed it and that saw it last just under 60k miles. Some of those rubbish cars seem to be surfacing as "barn finds" now! 

 

I have done 104k miles mostly on LPG on my Blue Vogue, averaged just under 15mpg on LPG which can be crippling but at 60 something pence per litre it is not devastating.

 

Blue Vogue has only twice left me stranded; 1.the alternator packed up, warning sign was the tacho flicking about all over the place. followed by abs lights on, then all the lights on. Got it off the motorway and it conked out. Found out after that one of the brushes had stuck in its carrier, and some encouragement with a light hammer saw it pop back into service. 2. starter motor siezed up, after removing it I found oil had leaked under the rocker cover gasket and had soaked the poor starter and burnt it out.

 

Blue Vogue is a keeper, love it. Recently helped my dad buy a very tidy and original 72 white 2 door. And seeing prices rise have invested in a couple of projects which are tucked away. There are a lot of fake a-suffix cars out there it is definately a case of buyer beware. Dad now wants a late 80s early 90s Range Rover like my vogue to use as his daily. They are very comfy but being handy with spanners doesnt half keep running costs down.

 

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