"cheap" diesel sensible motor needed

[Pillock]

My daily commute seems to get longer and longer..... and I'm feeling the pinch of the petrol prices. Giving some serious thought to getting something diesel, and given that large hatchbacks seem cheaper than small ones, stuff like Mk3 Mondeos and late facelift Vectras are on my radar.

 

Got about a grand, maybe 1200 to spend. Need a decent turn of speed so a Mondeo would be the 130bhp version, the Vectra the 2.2. They won't reverse the earth's rotation but they're not glacial. Anything else I should be looking at? VAG stuff seems well overpriced as usual - any Passats that are in price range have done a gazillion miles and have an MoT measured in minutes. Same with Octavias, I can almost guarantee they'll have spent most of their time either parked up outside the station, or with a vomiting student in the back.

 

Are Lagunas really that bad, the early-2000s shape one? I hear of plenty of electrical problems, injector issues and gearbox failures but then that kind of chod gets trotted out all the time. Is it really anything to worry about for a £900 motor? They seem cheap and well-equipped but typically french.

 

I'd seriously look at smaller stuff but the price goes up in a daft way..... a 2002 Focus is more expensive than a 2002 Mondeo. Why?

[Pete-M]

The X plate-ish Lagunas can be quite enjoyable old Hectors. Gearbox is cheese but that doesn't stop them being alright until it goes pop.

 

The 51ish onwards (Y reg?) ones with the black plastic beak on the bonnet and the keycard ignition, on the other hand, well, the cheese box is the least of your worries. I've never driven a fully functioning one, and I've driven a fair few of 'em. Avoid. With extreme prejudice*

 

The Vectra C isn't my cup of tea, but don't seem as godawful as the earlier thing. They don't seem to do the Vectra wallowy bounce from the rear thing as badly.

 

Mk3 Mondeos aren't bad. The estate would by my choice as they're frickin' huge and they don't suffer from the rear axle bush failure the hatch and saloons do, as they use a different setup. TDCi ones have rather sudden clutches on the six speed, but go well. TDDi isn't as awful as reputation suggests, it ain't smooth, but don't go too badly for what they are and they're not that much more rattly than a 1.9 TDi Pisshat.

 

Octavias, I'd avoid most of the cheap diesel ones for the reasons you mention. They're a lot rattlier after 60k miles even when they're maintained spot on, and seem to need all the front bushes and gearbox linkages replacing at about 60k. Flywheels and clutches seem to start to go at 70kish in ones used for taxi work. Reliable though. Taxi ones are easy to spot as the carpet goes all fluffy where it has been scuffed by careless feet within a few months of cab work. 50 mpg is a doddle in 'em, and nothing seems to break even with cab use for the first 50-60k though, so they're tough enough. They blow bulbs for fun, and the headlight bulbs are an awkward bugger to change - but the headlights are just two screws and the pull of a lever to remove.

 

I'd buy the nicest 1.9TD Xantia I could find, and you'd get a lovely low mileage minter for £1200.

[dieselnutjob]

you could get a nice 94-96 VW Passat TDI for that money

even if it has under 100,000 miles it'd be in your price range

[Pillock]

Cool, ta..... I'm leaning towards a Mondeo, indeed an estate for the fact there's billions of them out there so pricing is keen. The Vectra 2.2 only just occured to me tonight. My ex-friend had a Mondeo TDDI estate, it was no noisier and actually better on fuel than a TDCI, once he got the common issue of the split turbo hose sorted it was a decent drive. It's just tedious wading through all the turds, put in an audotrader search and you'll find thousands of them. All silver, too.

 

However I have just spied a 2001 2.2 Vectra SRI DTI with heated leather and a full MoT for £1100 not ten miles from my house.... might be worth a peek

Xantia isn't a bad vote to be fair, a bit harder to find but I suppose less likely to be a thrashed company pool car or something.

 

Cheers for the advice on Lagunas. They seem to be too complex for their own good, and too cheap to be properly maintained - my friend has one that she's entirely happy with but then she's happy leaving it unlocked since the RCL doesn't work, and she's happy that it clonks on full lock, and she's happy the trip computer has given up. Insert generic french car comment here.

 

I've given up on VW/Audi/Skoda, pains me to say it but too much german tax. £1800 minimum for the same age/spec/mileage as a £1200 Mondeo. The earlier Passats are OK but then it's an earlier car and finding one with that mileage is a sod, I'm still paying more for an older car.

The only advantage there is that it'd slot into my Footman James classic policy. But then if I don't use my regular policy this year I'll lose my 6 years NCB as it's been 18 months since I insured a "normal" car.

[dieselnutjob]

406

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0750845066

[trigger]

That T reg Skoda Octavia 1.9TDi 110 SLX that was for sale to me recently would have been ideal, 98000 miles, one owner and in a nice colour, Unsurprising it sold very quickly at it's £995 or best offer.

 

Something like that would be ideal.

[chester drawers]

Bloke at work had a low mileage Laguna 1.9Dci Sport Tourer at 12 months old back in 2003ish. It was a pretty car but spectacularly unreliable. It still had warranty of course but Renault dragged their feet over almost every failure and in fact rarely fixed any of them:

From memory - EGR valve (took the turbo with it), both ECUs (more than once), seized brakes, badly leaking sun roof and a daft “sports clutch†which essentially meant you couldn’t actually tow anything without a smell of burning. Persist and it would recreate the infamous R5 & caravan incident.

 

To be fair there’s a number of current-model diesel Mondeos on lease at work and if anything they’ve been less reliable than the Laguna. The dealer has had one of them 17 times in two years for non-service work.

 

At the age you’re buying I’d imagine the condition of the car in front of you is far more significant than any tales of woe. I’ve no direct experience of them, but C5s don’t half look cheap compared to badge snob oilers.

[Pillock]

Yeah I'd be tempted with the Octavia at that price - I don't mind going a year or two older for the right mileage and a decent MoT.

 

That 406 doesn't strike me as a massive bargain, a 90bhp model for £900 start price given the bootlid is fucked, the central locking has gone skyward and it needs an ABS sensor which is potentially an arse of a job. If he fixed the BAD POINTS I'd be more interested but it still sounds like it'd be lacking on the go go go.

[wuvvum]

My 51-plate petrol Laguna was a royal PITA with a succession of electrical gremlins which would have made an Alfa 166 blush. A DCi one would be the same, but with the fragile (and expensive to replace) 6-speed box and turbo / EGR issues in addition. Have you thought about a C5 HDI? I know they're fugly but they're more reliable than a Laguna, should be pretty comfy, are GR9 on diesel and seem to be quite good value at the moment.

[Pete-M]

That 406 doesn't strike me as a massive bargain, a 90bhp model for £900 start price given the bootlid is fucked, the central locking has gone skyward and it needs an ABS sensor which is potentially an arse of a job. If he fixed the BAD POINTS I'd be more interested but it still sounds like it'd be lacking on the go go go.

 

I flogged an '03 plate 110 bhp one for £550 not that long ago. On 'the list' but other than a tiny little crease on the boot floor, bugger all up with it. Needed a clutch and a ball joint to make it spot on.

 

406s are nice cars, and I think I'd enjoy a 3.0 estate, but they are a bit bland.

 

Talking of Alfas... Why not go completely mental?

 

[wuvvum]

Did they ever sell the 156 with the 2.4 JTD 5-pot here? I had a Marea with that engine and it was a right weapon.

[Pete-M]

Try clicking the pic.

[wuvvum]

The new version of the Autotrader site takes so long to open on my computer that I couldn't be arsed to have a proper look.

[Guest Leonard Hatred]

SEAT Toledo TDi, they are usually in a nicer spec than Octavias, cheaper and less like to be a clocked taxi. Added bonus of being old school enough to not be a dual mass flywheel fuel pump spitting over complicated shitbox.

 

Vectra DTis and Mondeo TDDis are ones to avoid, they use a very fragile fuel pump - look up Bosch VP44 failure.

 

They are all poor men's Morris Marina 1.5 diesels of course.

[Guest]

Horsey Horseless Diesel, though bear in mind that as they don't have glowplugs you have to pre-heat the engine with a kerosene lamp for several hours.

[Guest Leonard Hatred]

I'm surprised you've overlooked the Brooke Swan Car. They run on water plants and small fish easily found at the edges of canals, lakes and rivers making running costs very low. The downside is your car will be a constant target for swarthy Eastern European poachers.

[Cavcraft]

Vectra C: Despite the OMG FUEL PUMP WILL EXPLODE AN COST U 11 MILION QWID 2 REPAR I'd be more tempted by the 2.0 as opposed to the 2.2 model. Having said that the 2.2 is almost as questionable in the fuel pump stakes now too.

 

Audi A4?

Something Japanese?

[r.welfare]

I wouldn't bother with a Japanese diesel to be honest. The engines were nowhere near as good as the VAG/PSA stuff from a refinement/power perspective at that age, and they aren't always that reliable - Toyota D4D's eat fuel pumps for fun, and you'd struggle to find a Primera 2.0TD that hadn't been minicabbed to death.

 

Honda have nothing in your price range (all the old Accord 2.0 TDs have been exported to Eastern Europe, the last-shape Accord is too expensive, and the Civic's 1.7 Isuzu lump is too small), and I think it's quite telling that they've dropped the 2.2 CTDi Civic from the price lists this month due to not being arsed to make it meet the latest Euro specs. My crystal ball tells me it will be dropped from the Accord shortly, given they only sell about 5 a month...

 

In your shoes I'd be looking at the Mond TDDI estate, a 406 or C5. The C5 seems to offer spectacular value for money, especially. One of my colleagues about four years ago had a 2.2 Exclusive which went well, was exceptionally roomy, and lots of toys. Ugly though (the car, not the colleague), but the estate looks better, is more practical and doesn't seem that much more expensive.

 

That said, surely the Autoshite Star Choice would be a Hyundai Accent with the 1.5 CRDI 3-cylinder?

[M'coli]

With regard to jap diesels, what engine does the Mazda 6 use?

[r.welfare]

Their own lump rather than Ford's. Early ones (2002-05) have a habit of DPF issues that leads to fuel being dumped in the sump, with disastrous consequences. I don't know how prevalent it is, but there appear to be quite a few on eBay with lunched engines...they seem to rust around the wings and arches more than a "newish" car should, too.

[Cavcraft]

Oddly enough I may know of a TDCi Mongdeo up for grabs. 04 plate, about 130,000 on the clock and supposedly a tidy car except for a cracked front bumper-no surprise there then. Think it'll be about £1400 with tax and test.

[ProgRocker]

Almera 2.2 diesel.

[Pillock]

Cavette, which engine, what body shape and how much T&T? I was going to ask about colour but I'll assume it's silver

 

The Alfa is on my "God yeah!" list, but also on the "you know this is going to bankrupt you, right?" list too. I'd love to, it's pretty quick and something different too.

A4 are as overpriced as Passats.

406 are worth looking into more, and the C5 hadn't even twanged my g-string so far but I'll go and investigate.....

[Cavcraft]

It's a TDCi 115PS (which is probably modern speak for horse power) with MOT September and taxed up end of March I think. It's done 115,000 not 130,000 (or whatever I said before) and has cruise control and aircon. He's offered me a deal with my BMW and for obvious reasons I wouldn't keep the Mondeo. If I get it I can tax it if neccessary and would give it a thoroughly good test drive for a few days before offloading it.

 

It's a hatchback, probably no surprise it's silver and it's HPi clear.

[Justin Case]

Do you really need a diesel; a medium petrol hatch will do 40mpg and the extra fuel for one compared to a 50mpg diesel will only be £500 over 20,000 miles, which could easily be balanced out by any of the DPF, turbo, fuel pump, etc, etc woes mentioned previously.

 

Any of the usual Japanese suspects from the turn of the century would do the job; I gather Honda Civics are about the best and most economical

[M'coli]

Ah, yes, the 1.5 single cam VTEC 3-door Civic will comfortably do 45-50mpg.

[tonedepear]

Saab 9-3 2.2 TiD?

 

(the old GM900 shape hatchback one)

[Guest Leonard Hatred]

Vectra C: Despite the OMG FUEL PUMP WILL EXPLODE AN COST U 11 MILION QWID 2 REPAR I'd be more tempted by the 2.0 as opposed to the 2.2 model. Having said that the 2.2 is almost as questionable in the fuel pump stakes now too.

 

The same pump is used in both.

[M'coli]

It's the SOHC engine where just one inlet valve opens below about 4.5k, both are open above 4.5 and it revs to around 7: FA power below but good economy, and lots of revvy power above.

[254575]

1.5 NAD AX or 106. i think they actually produce diesel than use it, as they are that economical