Shite cutbacks.. where does the axe fall?....

[Lankytim]

Due to a recent career change and a certain addition to the family we are now on quite a tight budget. The shite fund is being squeezed more and more and the fleet is going to be cut back. The wife and I will have to have a daily driver each, something that's reliable and safe as our offspring will regularly be transported in both. I'm also considering another option- getting something small and modern for the wife to whizz round in, thats still an option but it would mean TWO of the following cars would have to go.

 

Anyway, heres a run down of the shite at our disposal.

 

 

1) 1986 Audi 100 avant. This one runs on gas and is pretty cheap to run, although its only getting 20MPG on gas. It did have the dubious distinction of being the most unreliable car I have ever owned. It's cost quite a bit to keep on the road over the years but its pretty much sorted now (over a year with no breakdowns!). Very handy to have as its an estate. Very comfortable and have been all over in the U.K in it. Mileage wise its getting on a bit (165k)- I predict more money being spent to keep it roadworthy, including a bit of welding for the next MOT. Its one of those constant "work in progress" jobbies. I would imagine that back in their day these were very safe cars. I don't know how they stand up to modern standards.

 

2) 1987 Maestro N/A Diesel. This is a recent purchase and is yet to see the road in my ownership so is a bit of an unknown quantity at the moment. Bodywork is rot free and it looks pretty smart. The previous owner converted it from petrol to Diesel using a low milage donor car. Looks to have been well done and starts first turn of the key. Should do 58MPG on Diesel, veg oil, coal or whatever, so should be mega cheap to fuel. Probably not that safe in a smash, I would hate to lose my life in a Diesel Maestro.

 

3) 1996 Volvo 940 saloon (manual). Big, Lovely, Smooth, great to drive. Drinks petrol like its going out of fashion. The huge sloppy leather seats and ride quality make this a great car to smoke about in. The wife adores it and its the safest car out of the three for ferrying the nipper about in. Its just the cost of fuelling it and the fact it doesnt seem to fit into normal car park spaces properly. Infact it barely fits on out drive without being in someones way (but thats down to the design of the driveway/house really). Out of the three cars mentioned, this should be the one that gives the least trouble long-term

 

I have already made a start on the shite cutbacks but putting my other Volvo 940 up for sale, so that one isn't included in the list.

 

So, there you have it. Im overstocked with shite and somethings got to give. I can't store them all and I can't afford to keep them all on the road. Im sure its a situation most shiters will find themselves in sooner or later. Which should go and how many? What should I do??

[eddyramrod]

3) 1996 Volvo 940 saloon (manual). Big, Lovely, Smooth, great to drive. The wife adores it and its the safest car out of the three for ferrying the nipper about in. Out of the three cars mentioned, this should be the one that gives the least trouble long-term

 

Don't underestimate the power of "Wife adores it"! Apart from not having a proper gearbox I can't see why you would even consider getting rid of this one. To me, it's easy, Audi goes. Wife drives Volvo, you drive Maestro. Game, set and match.

[Torsten2001]

^^^ what he said, the Maestro should prove to be a pretty safe, cheap and reliable plodder with the Volvo for the long runs, in theory you'll never need to buy another car!

[warren t claim]

Sell them all and buy something cheap and sensible like a Pug 205.

[Volksy]

Could you not transfer the LPG System to the Volvo?

[Lankytim]

Could you not transfer the LPG System to the Volvo?

 

Not really no, as the Volvo needs miltipoint injection to work properly and the Audi only has a single point mixer thing. I do have a nearly new gas tank in the garage that could go on the Volvo but along with the other bits needed and fitting its still going to be £1000+ when its all fitted- thats alot of petrol!

 

I guess I could hunt down a donor on ebay and felch it of its multipoint gas system although with turbo gas conversions it needs to be spot on or pistons melt.

[eddyramrod]

The LPG conversion sounds like too much time and money. Did you sell the other Volvo? If not, maybe you should be driving that (if you're worrying about crash protection), let wife drive the manual, and flog off everything else. Seems to me that covers the situation! OK, Volvos are not the meanest petrol-sippers, but after half a mile on those seats, you cease to care, I promise.

[Lankytim]

The LPG conversion sounds like too much time and money. Did you sell the other Volvo? If not, maybe you should be driving that (if you're worrying about crash protection), let wife drive the manual, and flog off everything else. Seems to me that covers the situation! OK, Volvos are not the meanest petrol-sippers, but after half a mile on those seats, you cease to care, I promise.

 

No, still have the other Volvo but its got to go. We can barely afford to run one Volvo, let alone two! The manual gets about 100 miles more to a tank of petrol, so thats the one thats staying.

[dollywobbler]

My 740 non-turbo was almost ridiculously economical for a 2.3 slush box. Maybe it'd be more economical with the wife's foot on the throttle?

 

I only say that because my wife can get insane economy out of the Mini and complains every time I drive it...

 

It's easy for me to just ignore the safety thing, but I can understand how having young'uns changes your outlook on that sort of thing. I think I'd rather take my chances in a bit ol' barge like the Volvo/Audi than a modern supermini but it's hard to rate the Maestro. It isn't going to be as safe as a modern, but it'll cost peanuts to run and fingers crossed that you never have to test the safety aspect! Millions and millions of cars managed to not crash!

[Cavcraft]

I'd day sell the Audi, because it's an estate, because it's tidy and because it's on LPG it'll be worth good coin.

You'll miss it and it'll be a million times better to drive than the Maestro but it should free up a decent bit of coin.

[pogweasel]

I would say KEEP the Audi and shift the rest.

LPG cheapness, mega spacious, GR8 4 just about anything you could want.

 

Maestro is too Maestroey, plus will cost more to run and do less than the Audi. Volvo's are very nice, but can you really justify the horrendous thirst? Is the Audi really that much less pleasurable?

 

Is two cars really essential? Could you get some sort of hideous put-put for going to work on that does 100+mpgs?

If you have to have 2 get a cheapy for 'Er Indoors to run about in [watch this space I will shortly be offloading a friends V-reg Fiesta Ghia for buttons, and it's a good 'un)

[dieselnutjob]

Could you get some sort of hideous put-put for going to work on that does 100+mpgs?

A Maestro diesel will do a fantastic economy. I don't see the point of getting rid of a perfectly good car and replacing with something hideous that will use almost as much fuel anyway.

Maybe your wife likes the Volvo because she thinks it's very safe, but I can't imagine that an Audi 100 would by that far behind on safety. On the other hand you don't seem that keen on it yourself so probably a Maestro for cheap runnin around and a nice Volvo for when you want a nice car makes a lot of sense.

[Justin Case]

How about keeping the Volvo for when you need something roomy, selling the Audi and Maestro and putting the proceeds towards a 10 year old Clio 1.2. Even one of that age has a 4 star NCAP rating and they would seem pretty good for the younger LTs:

 

http://www.euroncap.com/tests/renault_clio_2000/64.aspx

 

A friend of ours has one and it seems pretty reliable, even the electrics

[Mr Lobster]

Audi is probably the best all rounder - estate, lpg etc and does everything you could ever ask of it. Bin the others, buy something small and economical.

[whitevanman]

Does the safety aspect really matter? at most motyorway speeds you'll still die if you have a bad smash... why not spend the money on learning from the IAM how dive better and avoid accidents with the cheap motors you already have.................??

[Lankytim]

Argh! Decisions like this are never easy. Sometimes I think i'd never sell the Audi as its taken me so long to get it running right and its ferried me all over the country, from north Scotland to Cornwall. Its gone from a total scrapper to something quite respectable.

[gearoil]

Put all 3 up for sale and let fate decide?

 

Could the Audi make good £'s if advertised on some dub OMG SLAM ROOFRACK GR8 THX BI type site...?

[Mr Lobster]

Does the safety aspect really matter? at most motyorway speeds you'll still die if you have a bad smash... why not spend the money on learning from the IAM and learn to avoid accidents with the cheap motors you already have.................??

 

This makes sense.

 

A lot of my friends have gelt the need to go hyper sensitive to safety because of a baby, buying mini MPVs and the like. Oddly I haven't. I'm quite happy to stick Lobsta_Jnr in the R4. You can't avoid every potential accident but then you can't completely eliminate risk from your life either.

 

An older car is obviously less 'good' in an accident that a new one but if you take that to extremes you'll end up on the What Car forum discussing APR on a new financed up snoozebox. I spent my formative years riding around in my dads Mk2 Cavalier - mainly without seatbelts but I'm still here.

 

Sorry, wandering off topic a bit there...

[Lankytim]

Thats a very good point, but i'd hate to be in the situation where I wished I'd bought a modern car instead of having some old shite... but I guess thinking that way is a great way of making yourself paranoid.

 

The bottom line is the best way to survive a smash is not to have one in the first place!

 

Could the Audi make good £'s if advertised on some dub OMG SLAM ROOFRACK GR8 THX BI type site...?

 

LOL, I guess I could stick some VW badges on it and say its an extremely rare WAGON of some sort. Unfortunately the DUB SCENE seems to have bypassed most of the Audi models. Actually, maybe thats a good thing!

[dieselnutjob]

where I live (London) you can never really get going fast enough to hurt yourself anyway

the most dangerous roads appear to be country lanes and A/B roads

[whitevanman]

Thats a very good point, but i'd hate to be in the situation where I wished I'd bought a modern car instead of having some old shite...

 

if you have a bad crash you will always do a "what if"...trust me I've been there twice

 

 

BUT.....you can only take the precautions that you can afford, will you change your car everytime a better NCAP rated motor comes along? if not you are taking a chance arn't you? you said it yourself, the best way is to try and avoid a crash

[Guest]

If you're worried about the child being injured due to being inside some old shite, why not tow them behind in a minature trailer? Trailers aren't tested by NCAP so you can only really take this as an assumption that it's because they're safe already. You can even buy ones which have four sides, making them even safer. Wooden ones can be bought particularly cheap, if you're a smart buyer you'll wait until you see an old one for sale on the side of the road - don't worry if the wood is cracked, it's only really a cosmetic thing, same applies for the tyre sidewalls.

[garethj]

why not spend the money on learning from the IAM how dive better and avoid accidents with the cheap motors you already have.................??

What he said. I didn’t really get on with the local IAM when I tried a few years ago, but I’ve had more success with others (when I’d been riding bikes for a while). You can avoid accidents, and to anyone who says “you can be careful, but there’s always the other bloke†you can give them a good shoeing because it's bollocks. Take responsibility for your safety, don’t leave it in the hands of NCAP testers IMHO.

 

As for the other trifling matter, if you’re on an economy drive I’d keep the Maestro if it’s reliable. If not, I’d probably punt the lot of them on and get a 205 diesel, a roofbox and a moped

[retrogeezer]

so what do you do to avoid the scrote in a citroen saxo that come around a sharp bend on your side of the road at 60mph then???

[garethj]

so what do you do to avoid the scrote in a citroen saxo that come around a sharp bend on your side of the road at 60mph then???

What do you think you could do?

 

Listen for chav exhausts maybe? You road position should be to maximise your view all the time, so be as far over to the left on a right hand bend and as far to the right on a left hander. If he can make the bed at 60mph you should be able to see him in plenty of time and take avoiding action, I’d try and pick something soft to hit if the chips are down. Cars and accidents never come out of nowhere.

 

Yeahbut what if there was a sheer drop cliff on your side? And what if there was oil on the road and the chav skids into you? And what if a 40 tonne truck is coming up from behind at 60mph with no brakes? And what if you have a blow out at that exact moment??

 

You can keep on making up these scenarios but the anvil falling from the roof of your house as you stepped out the front door would get you first, if your luck is that bad.

 

You think an NCAP 5* car will protect you in a head-on crash at 60mph? What about 70 or 80 or 100mph? It’s a slightly stronger car, not a fucking forcefield.

[Guest Leonard Hatred]

"What if a Euro NCAP offset block test appeared in front of my car, what would I do then?"

[retrogeezer]

Gareth, you said:

 

You can avoid accidents, and to anyone who says “you can be careful, but there’s always the other bloke†you can give them a good shoeing because it's bollocks.

 

It's not bollox, sometimes other people do things that cause accidents that are completely unavoidable to the innocent party.

 

Just yesterday a girl came around a bend in front of me and I could see from the angle of the car that she was right on the limit of grip. A lot of the road was damp and had she hit a wet patch she could easily have lost control and spun towards me.

 

There would have been absolutely nothing I could have done to avoid a collision. The hedges are too high to see oncoming vehicles, her car was a Punto with a quiet exhaust and the hedges border the road, no footpath or anywhere to go to take avoiding action.

I could have stopped myself quickly enough from the speed I was doing but you can't lift your car out of the way.

[Justin Case]

Let's all get a sense of proportion Hitting an HGV or a concrete block at 60mph is most unlikely. The typical accident is front corner to front corner at a junction or front to rear in a traffic jam, both at relatively low speeds (20-30mph?). In that case I would sooner be in the Clio I suggested earlier than the Maestro, it could be the difference between a bruised leg and a broken ankle. 4 NCAP star cars behave pretty well in accidents, the extra star is usually mainly due to extra side/passenger airbags, which probably wouldn't go off in that sort of crash. Don't go overboard on safety, but nowt wrong in taking it into account.

[garethj]

sometimes other people do things that cause accidents that are completely unavoidable to the innocent party.

I would suggest that it happens very rarely – much less often that some hand wringers would have us believe. If the Punto in this case had been a 7.5 tonner, a million NCAP stars wouldn’t save you. Recognising the hazard and responding to it might save you.

Just yesterday a girl came around a bend in front of me and I could see from the angle of the car that she was right on the limit of grip. A lot of the road was damp and had she hit a wet patch she could easily have lost control and spun towards me.

So let’s get this straight, there was no accident?

There would have been absolutely nothing I could have done to avoid a collision. The hedges are too high to see oncoming vehicles, her car was a Punto with a quiet exhaust and the hedges border the road, no footpath or anywhere to go to take avoiding action.

You might look at the road and see that there’s no escape route and not much visibility. So you might slow down? I’m far from a speed nazi, but sometimes slowing down gives you more time which will save you. And make sure you can see as far down the road as possible by your position.

I could have stopped myself quickly enough from the speed I was doing but you can't lift your car out of the way.

So it looks like you did the right thing, full marks. But let’s just step back here, there was no accident, and if there was you could have stopped. How many NCAP stars do you need for this?

 

And do you think we’ve derailed this thread enough or is there more work to do?

[Espacetic]

You can keep on making up these scenarios but the anvil falling from the roof of your house as you stepped out the front door would get you first, if your luck is that bad.

 

Slate fell off the roof one day and sliced straight through the roof of my Anglia about 3 mins after my dad had just got out. Would've gave him hell of a parting.

 

If it's your time there's no ncap rating that will save you.

 

Personally, if I was in to banger racing I'd rather be racing a Farina or Audi 100 than any Ncap 5 star car.

This generation is far too paranoid about safety. We didn't have seat belts or booster seats as kids, we used to sit on cushions on the floor in the back of various Mk1 Transits, CA's and EA's.

 

It would be interesting to see what the difference is in child mortality/serious injury rates between the 70's, 80's, 90's and present day.