Modern cars - help me understand

[loserone]

Love how used prices from 2011 are being used to argue being cheaper than now.  Try buying something equivalent for the same price now!

[Asimo]

35 minutes ago, Homersimpson said:

how much better is a new BMW compared to a 20 year old one

From my recent experience of 5 series and 3 series estates:  faster, more economical.  (Also likely better to crash in)

Much less comfortable & comparatively gloomy to sit in. Much harder  to operate and zero joy to be had from driving the thing.

[Jerzy Woking]

I tried out an MG hybrid as the local dealer was doing a great deal on them. Wasn't that impressed really, quite small inside compared to my Doblo, and felt quite light and flighty.

I then purchased a cheap 22 year old Mercedes E320 straight 6 diesel  estate (incredibly cheap for Spain),  knowing it would need a few expensive jobs doing on it. All done now, thanks to the great independent near me.

Lovely thing to drive, feels solid and so the opposite of the MG. Think it has a few years left in it, as no rust anywhere.

[Homersimpson]

34 minutes ago, loserone said:

Love how used prices from 2011 are being used to argue being cheaper than now.  Try buying something equivalent for the same price now!

The point I'm making is that buying something sensible and keeping long term is much cheaper than continuing to lease a car every month.

That certainly been the case with our two and even if I bought an equivalent car today for more I will still be in a much better position in 5-10 years than taking out a PCP or lease.

The only thing that gives an EV a financial edge is if you can charge it exclusively at home on a cheap overnight tariff, as soon as you start using public chargers the cost is comparable to running a car like the Petrol Focus or Fiesta if not worse.

EVs are fine if you don't regularly do journeys that require using public chargers, for example for me and my wife it would work well but if you do a lot of miles (where a new car might be beneficial) then public charging is probably going to be a regular occurrence and hence cost of ownership increases.

I get that people try to justify leasing a new car to themselves/others even though in most cases its usually a bad financial decision, I worked with one girl who tried to convince me that on their new finance vehicle they built up equity in the car and so it was better than having a cheaper car and putting the rest as savings into the bank🤣

If you look at the numbers buying a sensible car outright that's a few years old and driving it till the wheels fall off is a far better plan.  Of course everyone is different, for some it makes sense, for some they can afford it so why not and for others its what they want in which case do it, you only pass this way once.

The other big thing is that a fair few people aren't disciplined enough to save so the money they spend on owning outright has to be borrowed which costs and then when the loan is paid they don't continue to save and so when a big bill comes in they don't have savings to cover it.

 

[loserone]

8 minutes ago, Homersimpson said:

Of course everyone is different

Indeed, and use cases are different.  We bought an EV at 18 months old, and are putting about 18k a year on on just home charging, so it makes perfect sense.  Buying a used 4x4 seemed like a nightmare and prices post covid are mental so the duster was £22k brand new and yes, depreciation is very significant but over time it loses its impact in the same way.  

 

I've not leased anything, but I bought my not-yet-here motorbike on a 0% credit card and am aiming to have it paid off before it gets out of the promotion period, which only works if I don't kill myself on it first.

[GMcD]

Never bought a new car, but had plenty as "cheap" lease deals for a couple of years at a time. I always chased the deal and never the car so I've had plenty of variation. Never had a bad one as such yet, although I cancelled a Frontera EV deal as I got the fear over reliability issues (owners FB group).

Do I need a brand new car? Absolutely not, I could easily get by without and save a few quid (which I have done for the past few years). But as much as I like my old cars I also enjoy being able to jump into something new to buzz about in.  Got a new EV arriving on Tuesday which I'm looking forward to.

[sdkrc]

I like the idea of running shitters but finding a decent, reliable garage is very hard. I got a lease because I wanted the free headspace that comes with white-goods and not having to plan repairs, not having to worry about losing a week of transport because you've failed an MOT etc. The time and stress relief are worth the cost to me.

Buying a nearly new car would've made some sense but £10-20k secondhand cars are still a bit of a minefield

[MrBiscuits]

People like to buy shiny things that make them feel good. Plus a huge percentage of the population are convinced they cannot live without a car and terrified of any kind of breakdown or interation with the greasy end of the motor trade. Ultimately it keeps a lot of people gainfully employed.

The sweet spot for me is buying something 3 years old and running it for 5-7 years. My 2015 Toyota managed 7.5 years only requiring 1 set of brake pads and a 12v battery. Since I bought it before the covid madness I was very lucky with depreciation too. I only changed it because out of curiosity I tried a 2023 Corolla and was impressed by how much the hybrid system had improved.

The new one of course has a lot of ADAS which I thought I'd turn off. However for most of the time it just works and I leave it on. I figure the rare random warning or rumble on the steering wheel is worth it as it might just save me if I do something stupid one day.

[Lord Sterling]

On 30/08/2026 at 08:47, N Dentressangle said:

I actually think Mo made a good choice in the brand new X1. 

 For a millisecond there, I thought I had somehow agreed to buy an X1 without actually knowing.

[chadders]

19 hours ago, loserone said:

Indeed, and use cases are different.  We bought an EV at 18 months old, and are putting about 18k a year on on just home charging, so it makes perfect sense.  Buying a used 4x4 seemed like a nightmare and prices post covid are mental so the duster was £22k brand new and yes, depreciation is very significant but over time it loses its impact in the same way.  

 

I've not leased anything, but I bought my not-yet-here motorbike on a 0% credit card and am aiming to have it paid off before it gets out of the promotion period, which only works if I don't kill myself on it first.

We tend to buy new but generally keep them for at least 10 years so as you say the depreciation loses its impact. It'd probably make no sense if we wanted or needed a change every 2 or 3 years.

[Matty]

On 30/08/2026 at 12:26, SiC said:

At the risk of sounding like a Renault/Alpine sales person...

Renault have solved* this by having a single button to disable all systems or just to have which you have enabled on their moderns. Probably because if they didn't, some Frenchman would set fire to the factory?

 

Apart from the number of physical buttons still about on the wheel (rather than touch nonsense or nothing at all), Reno have kept the physical HVAC controls.

My new Trafic van has this and its a revalation. Jump in, rick it up, one button to turn off stop start, one button to turn off the ADAS. We replaced our old Iveco recently, i was never out of the old one but wont drive the new one unless i have to. Stupid electric pkwere steering and ADAS settings which involve navigating through a load of sub menus.

[chris667]

Having had experience of my dad's shit E-up, my feeling is electric cars are no good unless you can charge at home.

You might find that one requires no maintenance, but the extra time finding charging points and getting them all to work is worth far more to me than any cost saving of the electricity vs fossil fuel.

My dad's E-up has also not been reliable -  currently only slow charging and with a quoted £5000 repair bill. It's 4 1/2 years old so has depreciated from £22,000 to about £2,500. I'd be astonished if it lasts long enough to become shite.

Don't buy a Volkswagen, folks. They are not quality items anymore.

[sierraman]

On 29/08/2026 at 18:59, Jazoli said:

Cars basically all do the same thing, some are nicer to sit in, some are faster, some are better at some things than others, some do all of that objectively better than others.

But yes they all can be pretty boring.

I’d rather be sat in comfort in a decent (quality) car than a base sandero in a traffic jam or on a motorway.

The same way I’d rather have a new car than something 15 years old, horses for courses really, everyone likes different things, but I’d rather have a old Mercedes (for example) than a new base sandero If I only had 10k to spend.

I’ve never felt like a tosser in any car, from a Peugeot to a Porsche, that’s more for the hard of thinking I think, do you automatically think everyone is a tosser who drives an X3?

I suspect it’s based on experience, the local roadmen near us all have a 10 year old VAG/BMW. I’m desperate to be proved wrong but when I see someone in a 2014 Golf, chucking black smoke out, caning the bollocks off it round a housing estate, they’ve got one one of those haircuts that makes their head look like a gas meter and they’re roided up to the nines… that they’re not a complete cunt. 
 

I accept though that if you go up other side of town there will be some normal people that bought it new, had it serviced religiously at VAG, and behave like normal people. But from my observation, they are unfortunately in the minority.