Was : East German collection. Now : MZ Thread

[Stinkwheel]

Just now, Verysleepyboy said:

When I get a chance, I'll give that a go - thank you!

Where are you based? Would be good to have some DDR related show and tell if possible?

I'm mosty based in mid west Wales these days, but sometimes I'm at the parents place if I'm working in the office, which is Northamptonshire, but likelyhood of the bike being in Northants anytime soon are slim 

[plasticvandan]

4 hours ago, Stinkwheel said:

In todays MZ news, Its still on its standard size piston and bore, never had a rebore and seemingly doesnt need one (OK, so i have actually ordered a new piston kit, It makes sense to have a new one in there with its full count of rings)

This seems amazing to me as its showing 32k on the speedo. Is it likely its done 32k with little or no piston/bore wear?

 

Quite likely,my ETZ had done a similar mileage and only needed to go up a size as a ring had broken in the past and damaged the bore. my dad has an ETZ250 that's done almost 190k and been to the artic circle and back,and I think that's only on its third rebore.

[plasticvandan]

4 hours ago, Verysleepyboy said:

It's not quite as nice as it looks from a distance - brush painted and the chrome isn't great, but it is pretty much complete, and the Lux version with the twin clocks etc.

Had it running very briefly when I picked it up but only for about 1 minute then it died and haven't been able to kick anything into life since. Very weak spark - so that needs further attention but trying to get time on it isn't easy currently.

Likely condenser or shitty connections in the fusebox.useless fact,MZ use the same points as the Trabant 😊 

[Verysleepyboy]

21 hours ago, plasticvandan said:

Likely condenser or shitty connections in the fusebox.useless fact,MZ use the same points as the Trabant 😊 

Useless fact - but also useful to know. Thank you!

[Verysleepyboy]

 

On 01/09/2025 at 14:53, Stinkwheel said:

I'm mosty based in mid west Wales these days, but sometimes I'm at the parents place if I'm working in the office, which is Northamptonshire, but likelyhood of the bike being in Northants anytime soon are slim 

I'm also in Northants - let me know next time you are about and it would be good to catch up 🙂

[martc]

Congrats, I'm a massive MZ fan...

I passed my bike test on my brand new MZ TS125 Lux (Alpine in the DDR).

And then I got a red MZ TS150 (Adler (Eagle) in the DDR), which, much like yours, was dragged out of a garage from behind a wardrobe, started on the third kick after standing for 12 years, (the original battery needed charging first).

Replaced with a brand new black TS150 Lux

And then, one of my favourite bikes ever, an MZ TS250 Supa5. I had incredible fun on this (once the Pneaumants were replaced with Avons). It was slightly foxed which just added to the fun.

Then an MZ ETZ250 Lux, with the flat tank, this was a leap ahead compared to the others, with 12v electrics, disc brake and autolube. It was fun but a bit too sanitised (still went ring ding ding though).

And finally an MuZ 300 Saxon Tour, post DDR, very similar to the ETZ but bored out to 300cc which gave it slightly more umph and a poorer fuel consumption. The seat was dreadfully uncomfortable. Being post DDR it had filthy western components on it, notably the same CEV switch gear as my Moto Guzzi Spada III.

In 1989 I was in the DDR on my Moto Guzzi Lario and, when staying near Karl Marx Stadt (now Chemnitz), I went to Zschopau to see the factory, which I did (from the outside) - it was a typical Germanic factory, painted the usual beige colour, with triangular roofs with rows of skylights, a massive chimney and a steep courtyard outside, that's about all I can remember. I then went onto the MZ museum which was in a castle. The 'car' park was full of MZ's, the Guzzi did stand out a bit. The museum was ace and didn't hide the DKW origins of MZ with plenty on show. They also had IFA's, as MZ's were called before the change to, well, MZ. They had the experimental wankel powered one plus all the fab ISDT models and the racers (don't forget Walter Kaaden, MZ's chief engineer, invented the 2 stroke expansion pipe and Ernst Degner rode them like the devil was chasing him to many victories and then defected to Suzuki, taking the spanny pipe with him). I still have the museum guide in the loft somewhere. Oh and then I rode under the shadow of Colditz Castle, which at the time was definitely not a tourist attraction.

[Richard_FM]

One of my friends had a  MZ TS125 & his Dad a MZ TS150.  I remember they bought another to strip down for spares, which I helped with.  We had it down to the frame in less than an hour.

Later my friend upgraded to a MZ TS250, but crashed it!

[robt100]

All this mentioning of DDR bikes reminds me of when I stayed at a friends house in Germany about 8 years ago. She said she was taking me to her Boss's house as I would like it, no further explanation!

Turns out he has converted half the house into a two storey garage, downstairs for Trabants, upstairs for around 50 'Pre-wall' East German motorbikes and scooters (and a couple of Aprillia RSVs). Got to have a good nose around, start a few up, and even take his trabant estate up the road😄 If I can find them ill dig the photos out to share.

[Stinkwheel]

9 hours ago, Richard_FM said:

One of my friends had a  MZ TS125 & his Dad a MZ TS150.  I remember they bought another to strip down for spares, which I helped with.  We had it down to the frame in less than an hour.

Later my friend upgraded to a MZ TS250, but crashed it!

Thats one thing I have found so far, very simple construction but clever with it. I think I'm a bit of a convert

[Stinkwheel]

For anyone still reading and cares, have adjusted thread title so this can be a collective MZ thread if folks want to add anything of their own, feel free.

Today, over my lunchbreak, i thought i'd just see what happens when you put a battery onto a bike stood since 1986 ish. 

After cleaning terminals, adding a couple of new battery leads, it has lights, a spark and i suspect would run (if i hadnt taken it all apart to clean the carb/exhaust etc etc

[Richard_FM]

I heard one MZ engineer proposed a totally new & up to date design in the 1960s, only to be rebuffed by the government, so he defected to Japan & became a designer for one of the big 4.

[andy18s]

11 minutes ago, Richard_FM said:

I heard one MZ engineer proposed a totally new & up to date design in the 1960s, only to be rebuffed by the government, so he defected to Japan & became a designer for one of the big 4.

I'm sure Suzuki owe all their 2 stroke technological advances to an ex Mz team member,who defected to the West.

[tom13]

14 hours ago, andy18s said:

I'm sure Suzuki owe all their 2 stroke technological advances to an ex Mz team member,who defected to the West.

Mat Oxley - Stealing Speed is the book. A very interesting story and worth looking up even if you don't read the book.

[Stinkwheel]

20 minutes ago, tom13 said:

Mat Oxley - Stealing Speed is the book. A very interesting story and worth looking up even if you don't read the book.

Thats the name of it!!! I've got a copy somewhere, brilliant book (most things Mat Oxley writes are good actually, and he's a genuine TT winner himself, so respect. And on a 2 stroke as well) 

[Zelandeth]

For all everyone likes to take the piss out of them, you look at the engine that ended up in the Trabant P601 and in the early 60s it was a very modern two stroke design.  Nothing like the mildly reheated DKW unit that pub experts would like you to think.

There were a lot of very clever two stroke engineers in East Germany, and if they had been in a position to properly capitalise on that it would have been interesting to see how far they would have pushed the technology.

[brandersnatch]

I had an MZ TS250. Four gears, round head and that funny spike key. I bought it because I was a despatch rider in London, needed a bike to work on the next day and it was the cheapest bike in The Loot. I worked on it for about a year then sold it to another courier who had it for years. I replaced it with a BMW K100 RT. Bit of a contrast. 

[martc]

On 03/09/2025 at 22:52, Richard_FM said:

I heard one MZ engineer proposed a totally new & up to date design in the 1960s, only to be rebuffed by the government, so he defected to Japan & became a designer for one of the big 4.

 

On 03/09/2025 at 23:06, andy18s said:

I'm sure Suzuki owe all their 2 stroke technological advances to an ex Mz team member,who defected to the West.

The engineer was Walter Kaaden, and far from rejecting the idea - it was the expansion pipe - it was accepted, employed and MZ dominated their GP classes for a few years in the sixties. MZ's star rider, Ernst Degner, defected to Suzuki, taking the expansion pipe with him. And the rest is history.

[comfortablynumb]

Second bike, and probably the first " proper" one was an MZ Simpson.

All the lads round my way had ap50's , fizzees etc, with expanny pipes.

The MZ was unrestricted.

They were flat on the tank, and I could ride past them sitting up.

Yeah, now take the piss 🤣

[martc]

5 hours ago, comfortablynumb said:

Second bike, and probably the first " proper" one was an MZ Simpson.

All the lads round my way had ap50's , fizzees etc, with expanny pipes.

The MZ was unrestricted.

They were flat on the tank, and I could ride past them sitting up.

Yeah, now take the piss 🤣

Nice one. I never had a Simson but I did have a Puch MS50 (which looked a little like a Simson Schwable (Swallow) that surprised many a fizzie owner with it's turn of speed.

Incidentally, there was no direct connection between MZ and Simson. The Simson factory was in Suhl approx 120 miles from their great rivals DKW (later MZ) in Zschopau. Simson was founded in the 19th centaury, and, like many motorbike factories, their first products were guns. Simson went on to make cars and a full range of motorbikes. After the second world war Simson was nationalised and their products were called AWO before reverting to Simson in the mid fifties, the factory staying in Suhl. Both Simson and MZ were under the great IFA (Industrieverband Fahrzeugbau) umbrella, IFA being the state concern controlling all vehicle production in the DDR (think of IFA as being similar to our BL, controlling many once independent vehicle companies, now united despite great, historical rivalries). The decision was made that Simson would make bikes <125cc and MZ the larger ones. Both had a competition department, both of which were quite successful.

It would be naive to say that both factories worked completely independently of each other, I'm sure there would have been some technical co-operation even though they were great rivals back in the day (see also BL's constituent companies), but both were marketed as separate brands and they were separate factories. MZ badges never appeared on Simsons nor vice versa.

Both Simson and MZ were imported by Wilf Green in Sheffield, they shared similar sales and marketing literature (no doubt originating from a central bureau in the DDR) and were often sold alongside each other. There is some similarities between them - for example the long silencer and fantastic full enclosed chain. All this conspires to make them seem, quite reasonably, to be from the same factory. But they're not.

 

 

[plasticvandan]

Only correction I would make is that in the UK some Simson 50s did get rebadged as MZ by wilf green,which is probably what's caused the confusion over here.

[CreepingJesus]

Haven't batted for the DDR side yet (yet!), but as a former CZ custodian, I'm enjoying this thread a lot. It was the ex ISDT CZ that the dealer in Kirkcaldy had in his showroom, that got me finding out about just how big a fright the Eastern European trials bikes gave (particularly) the British manufacturers back then. Superb machines, and only really eclipsed by the Japanese.

Funnily enough, a comment further up about owner's manual maintenance advice, brought to mind the bit in the CZ manual about decoking the silencer; strip it, douse it in petrol and light it, 'at a safe distance from any buildings, maybe on some waste ground...' which seems entirely typical. 

[Stinkwheel]

I remember setting fire to the pipe on my fizzie back when I was 16, can’t think of who it was gave me the advice, my dad thought I was mad and was convinced I’d ruin it (even though he had had many British bikes only a couple were two strokes, both bantams) 

I think I’d already tried the caustic soda route the previous time and not been impressed with the results. 

[martc]

1 hour ago, plasticvandan said:

Only correction I would make is that in the UK some Simson 50s did get rebadged as MZ by wilf green,which is probably what's caused the confusion over here.

Well every day is a learning day, I never knew that. I've only ever seen Simson Simsons.

[martc]

Talking of handbooks, I remember two peices of advice from my red MZ TS150 handbook, from the mid seventies. These are not exact quotes, but they went something like this -

'Never use a wire to clean out the carburettor jets, use a bristle from your mothers broom'

'The toe cap of your boot is not an accurate pressure gauge. Always use the correct gauge'

[CreepingJesus]

47 minutes ago, martc said:

Talking of handbooks, I remember two peices of advice from my red MZ TS150 handbook, from the mid seventies. These are not exact quotes, but they went something like this -

'Never use a wire to clean out the carburettor jets, use a bristle from your mothers broom'

'The toe cap of your boot is not an accurate pressure gauge. Always use the correct gauge'

I was trying to think where I'd heard the 'bristle from mother's broom' one before! A mate at uni had a TS250, then a TS300  (iirc, it was many years and beers ago), and being an engineering student, there were a few times I'd be asked "Think that's right...?" which was where I got familiar with that sort of maintenance. My, how we laughed at another mate's seized RGV250; one of them you could put right with a screwdriver, a spanner and a handy sized rock, the other...not so much. It was quite clearly motorbike as practical, cheap transport vs motorbike as statement accessory.

[martc]

3 minutes ago, CreepingJesus said:

I was trying to think where I'd heard the 'bristle from mother's broom' one before! A mate at uni had a TS250, then a TS300  (iirc, it was many years and beers ago), and being an engineering student, there were a few times I'd be asked "Think that's right...?" which was where I got familiar with that sort of maintenance. My, how we laughed at another mate's seized RGV250; one of them you could put right with a screwdriver, a spanner and a handy sized rock, the other...not so much. It was quite clearly motorbike as practical, cheap transport vs motorbike as statement accessory.

'TS300' - this didn't exist officially. I remember one year at the bike show in Olympia (when it used to alternate with the NEC) in the mid/late eighties, MZ were canvassing buyers whether they would be interested in a 300cc model. By then the TS was history, we are in the ETZ era, I think the flat tank version rather than the banana tank. I'm not sure if it ever came to pass before the collapse of the DDR. MuZ, MZ's successor, certainly made a 300cc as I had one. Looks like it was ETZs, and it actually happened -

https://www.mzridersclub.com/marque-history/a-potted-2t-history/

However, I think there was a kit you could buy, probably from Burwins, to uprate your TS to 300cc.

A quick google search shows that Burwins closed in 2023 and they were still selling MZ parts! Burwins were the go to supplier for all accessories, go faster goodies etc. They were deeply involved in MZ racing, a big thing in the '80's.

[CreepingJesus]

Thanks, I had a feeling I was making a mistake somewhere, and that makes more sense. It would've been an ETZ, which as I'm clearing the rust off the memory, he chopped the 250 in for, because he got a screaming deal on the spot kinda thing. This would've been in Aberdeen in about 92/93, so it couldn't have been very old, and I'm not sure who the dealers were. Probably wasn't Shirlaw's, because although they did sell stuff 'out the back of the workshop', that was more 'cash up front, no receipt, no warranty'.

I did seriously look at the MuZ660 in Dunfermline Motorcycles when they came out; I'd been a wee bit cynical about the Yamaha engine, but on inspection it was probably the bike Yamaha should've built. Very impressive.

[Rustybullethole]

2 hours ago, Stinkwheel said:

I remember setting fire to the pipe on my fizzie back when I was 16, can’t think of who it was gave me the advice, my dad thought I was mad and was convinced I’d ruin it (even though he had had many British bikes only a couple were two strokes, both bantams) 

I think I’d already tried the caustic soda route the previous time and not been impressed with the results. 

Ah yes. Ran the oxy torch through my cherry red spanny to clear it through once. The hours spent welding it back up meant its a process ive never repeated.

MZ is a bike i'm yet to own. One day. 

[plasticvandan]

Yes Burwins made a kit for the TS but I don't think many were sold.My dad has amongst his MZs and ETZ300, one of Wilf greens official bikes which he converted from 250s,until MZ caught on and brought out their own ETZ301.

Burwins old boy (if still alive) continued rebuilding mz engines at home.after the business closed.pretty much all of the old mz dealers have gone now,which is to be expected.I tended to get all my bits direct from the motherland as even with postage it worked out cheaper,I tended to avoid ost2rad tho as most of their stuff was the cheapest,chinesiest crap.

[Stinkwheel]

Things have taken a turn with the MZ

Engine out (you can probably tell)

I will say that @plasticvandan was absolutely right, nothing has been seized or snapped so far in the disassembly. If this was a Japanese  bike of similar age I’d be investing in all new fasteners after lots of swearing/snapping/drilling etc by now.

I’ve got all new seals and crank and gearbox bearings for it, along with new piston kit. Watch this space as they say.