Leaking sunroof’s!

[danthecapriman]

Anyone who’s read my Volvo thread will know a while back I had problems with the factory sunroof leaking. 
It’d been doing it a while by the look of it, but got so bad in the end the headlining got absolutely destroyed and there was actually water raining in onto your head if the car tilted forward.

I spent some considerable time ripping everything out, cleaning and repairing the sunroof the making a new headlining. Which fixed it. Until now! 
The last few days where the sun’s been out and warming up a bit I’ve noticed some pretty bad condensation buildup on the inside of the cars windows so today had a look inside.

Headlining is absolutely soaked. Very damp and smelly in the car. One rear footwell extremely wet. To say I’m now incredibly pissed off would be a big understatement!

Whats the best thing to do now? 
Im thoroughly pissed off fighting this same issue tbh, so one way or another this problem will stop here and now. 
To dry the car out I’ve opened up all the doors, wiped everything down to get rid of standing moisture then used a wet vac to get rid of as much of the water as possible from the footwell carpet. Tonight I’m leaving a dehumidifier running in the car to help dry everything out.

As far as the sunroof is concerned:

Id love to rip the piece of shit thing out then weld a section of roof skin into the hole and permanently have it gone. Obviously that’s not easy! 
So my next thought is to permanently seal it shut. I’m thinking of getting some black sealer/adhesive and simply forcing as much as possible into the gap around the sunroof lid as possible then smoothing it off so it looks like the original rubber seal. 
This will make the sunroof permanently closed but I don’t use the shitty hateful thing anyway so I couldn’t give a toss. I’m more concerned with keeping the interior dry and the floors solid!

Can anyone tell me if there’s any good reason not to do this? Is it likely to cause more problems later? 
I’ve had the sunroof completely in bits before and rebuilt it with new sealer etc etc and yet it still pisses water in so it’s clearly not fixable properly.

Thoughts?

[Spiny Norman]

Vinyl roofs need to make a comeback...

[Rust Collector]

Remove the headliner, get an assistant to spray the roof with a hose, sit inside the car and observe where water enters. Easier said than done, I know, but this is what I was doing on the proton at the weekend. Once you know where the water gets in, I’d then make my decision from there.

I found it was water leaking between the roof skin and the sunroof frame on my car, which is probably the worst case scenario.

I’ve taken it all apart, and ground back the roof skin surrounding the aperture to bare metal - annoyingly it will need welding in places.

I agree with you that sun roofs are absolute gopping wank.

I’ve left my car looking like it’s having a day out at the beach whilst I find some time to repair the roof and then refit the sunroof.

I’m wondering if some clear silicone between the outer frame and the roof skin wouldn’t be a bad idea when it’s refitted.

[danthecapriman]

3 minutes ago, Rust Collector said:

Remove the headliner, get an assistant to spray the roof with a hose, sit inside the car and observe where water enters. Easier said than done, I know, but this is what I was doing on the proton at the weekend. Once you know where the water gets in, I’d then make my decision from there.

I found it was water leaking between the roof skin and the sunroof frame on my car, which is probably the worst case scenario.

I’ve taken it all apart, and ground back the roof skin surrounding the aperture to bare metal - annoyingly it will need welding in places.

I agree with you that sun roofs are absolute gopping wank.

I’ve left my car looking like it’s having a day out at the beach whilst I find some time to repair the roof and then refit the sunroof.

I’m wondering if some clear silicone between the outer frame and the roof skin wouldn’t be a bad idea when it’s refitted.

Glad I’m not alone!

Sunroof’s are absolutely shit. Why any twat thought cutting a hole in the roof of a car was ever a good plan wants their testicles crushed in a vice! See also - convertibles. 
If you live in the Mohave desert then, maybe. But still no. In the wettest shit hole country on the plane like ours - absolutely no. You cunt.

Im wondering actually now you’ve posted that, if there is a little rust hole or something that’s letting water past the frame? I’ll have a look tomorrow if I dare open the sunroof!

[Mr Pastry]

I had all this nonsense on a Mk 1 Clio - runout model, Biarritz?  limited edition with a cheapo sunroof, fitted either at the factory or maybe by the dealer.  Most of the water that came in collected inside the rigid headlining moulding, then (French practicality!) drained out straight through the alarm/immobiliser sensor which was at the top of the windscreen.  This was not a good thing.

After much investigation, most of the bolts clamping the sunroof frame to the roof were found to be missing, as in, never been fitted.  Removed the whole thing, re-sealed with suitable black goo and bolted back properly with correct number of bolts and it was then OK.  The seal between the glass sunroof itself and the frame was reasonably good.  It was very difficult to reach all this without removing the headlining, which wasn't an option, mostly had to be done by feel, many sharp edges, and many cut fingers resulted. 

Absolutely crap idea.

[captain_70s]

The outer seal on a 740 sunroof isn't really supposed to stop water entirely, it's mostly to reduce wind noise.

The water that gets in should drain out down the inside of the A pillars via two small holes in the leading corners of the sunroof housing. Obviously if these channels get blocked the sunroof housing fills up and overflows into the car.

[danthecapriman]

5 minutes ago, captain_70s said:

The outer seal on a 740 sunroof isn't really supposed to stop water entirely, it's mostly to reduce wind noise.

The water that gets in should drain out down the inside of the A pillars via two small holes in the leading corners of the sunroof housing. Obviously if these channels get blocked the sunroof housing fills up and overflows into the car.

I cleaned out both front and both rear drain tubes when I took everything apart. All the hose/pipe things are connected up ok too.

As you say, the ‘seal’ is just to lessen wind noise more than seal anything but obviously if I do seal that gap so the sunroof lid is sealed against the roof skin edges with some good quality sealer then in theory no water can possibly get into the car or the sunroof tray. The factory seal thingy is all sun damaged and fraying now too and they’re not available anymore.

It’s all been fine and bone dry inside since I did the repairs, so nearly two years now. Although the rain we had recently was incredibly heavy and pretty much all day and all night so maybe it just got totally overwhelmed and couldn’t drain out fast enough? 
Obviously if that ‘seal’ is weather damaged and worn it will allow lots more water into the sunroof tray. If it’s in good condition it’ll slow the water going in as it does fill the gap so water will run over it and off the sides of the car. Maybe mine is now so poor there’s sometimes more water getting in than it can drain fast enough? Again though, what’s the solution as the seal isn’t available anymore.

[comfortablynumb]

Had that problem with a ford Orion, we dropped the headlining to find that the frame had rusted through.

My (then) college lecturer welded it up for me while I kept the paintwork cool with an airline.

Was very successful, no more leaks

[captain_70s]

1 hour ago, danthecapriman said:

I cleaned out both front and both rear drain tubes when I took everything apart. All the hose/pipe things are connected up ok too.

As you say, the ‘seal’ is just to lessen wind noise more than seal anything but obviously if I do seal that gap so the sunroof lid is sealed against the roof skin edges with some good quality sealer then in theory no water can possibly get into the car or the sunroof tray. The factory seal thingy is all sun damaged and fraying now too and they’re not available anymore.

It’s all been fine and bone dry inside since I did the repairs, so nearly two years now. Although the rain we had recently was incredibly heavy and pretty much all day and all night so maybe it just got totally overwhelmed and couldn’t drain out fast enough? 
Obviously if that ‘seal’ is weather damaged and worn it will allow lots more water into the sunroof tray. If it’s in good condition it’ll slow the water going in as it does fill the gap so water will run over it and off the sides of the car. Maybe mine is now so poor there’s sometimes more water getting in than it can drain fast enough? Again though, what’s the solution as the seal isn’t available anymore.

Perhaps the drains have re-plugged? If the seal is disintegrating it could be filling the channels with bits of crumbling rubber?

I don't see why sealing  it with Tiger Seal or something wouldn't work. Although I've been trying to rectify my 740's leaky windscreen using such method to no positive effect!

I wonder if some generic profile seal could be found to work for the sunroof panel. I think it is just a U shape...

[Rust Collector]

I cleaned the drain tubes out on our Clio, I used one of these:

I think it was advertised as a trombone cleaner or something on eBay.

The drains were draining, but slowly. After running that brush through, water drains out nearly as fast as I can pour it into the sunroof tray from a bottle.

The Clio still leaks, so the sunroof is coming out of that soon too - I believe it needs some sort of inner foam seal replacing.

Did I mention that sunroofs are fucking shit?

[beko1987]

On my old xm it would run through the sunroof motor cogs. 

It wasn't clogged, it all drained well, it didn't even have to pool. It just ran past wherever the motor was on its way to drain, and dribbled down the cogs and into the cabin all over the keypad. 

My fix in the end was to remove the motor, but the water still came in. I Tigersealed the whole thing shut in the end, never liked it anyway as (I had an estate) with just the sunroof open the air thrummed inside and fucked my ears up. So I'd have to crack another window somewhere which then changed the air direction of it into blowy as fuck as the wind then channeled through the car until I closed the sunroof... 

When I was hunting for a qashqai I immediately veered away from any with big panoramic roof glass. In my few weeks on the fb groups of them one of the more common posts is 'where are the sunroof drains? It's leaking over my satnav/heated seat buttons? "😂 Screw that, none for me thanks! 

I remember removing the front arch liners on my blue laguna and chisseling the compacted dirt out to find the ends of the drains, then using 2 core thin electrical flex to rod them through and they were clogged solid (I'd noticed the mechanism filling with water but it didn't come in the car I don't think). Tons of stagnant green shit came out and it all drained really well then (renner put the drain holes at the back of the mechanisms so the water has to run past it all to escape. Which worked as expected when it can't escape 🙄

[danthecapriman]

14 minutes ago, Rust Collector said:

I cleaned the drain tubes out on our Clio, I used one of these:

I think it was advertised as a trombone cleaner or something on eBay.

The drains were draining, but slowly. After running that brush through, water drains out nearly as fast as I can pour it into the sunroof tray from a bottle.

The Clio still leaks, so the sunroof is coming out of that soon too - I believe it needs some sort of inner foam seal replacing.

Did I mention that sunroofs are fucking shit?

That’s similar to what I use for cleaning the drains out. It usually does get some bits of crud out but not anything excessive that’d block it.

25 minutes ago, captain_70s said:

Perhaps the drains have re-plugged? If the seal is disintegrating it could be filling the channels with bits of crumbling rubber?

I don't see why sealing  it with Tiger Seal or something wouldn't work. Although I've been trying to rectify my 740's leaky windscreen using such method to no positive effect!

I wonder if some generic profile seal could be found to work for the sunroof panel. I think it is just a U shape...

It’s possible I suppose if the seal breaking up has blocked something. I’ll open it tomorrow and have a look.

Im sure the 700 seal is like two U shaped sections, one upside down to hook onto the lip on the sunroof lid. It doesn’t look like anything ridiculous so there must be something somewhere that’d fit. 
I have looked at new sunroof seals for other cars (like Capri ones) but I’m not sure they’d work. There’s got to be something out there though.
 

 

[Mally]

I once bought a Mini Marcos in bits. The previous owner cut a hole in the roof to fit a Webasto, but never bought the webasto.

He did have the fibreglass he had removed. 

I held the panel in place, there  was a gap all round of about 1/2", dunno how?

I clamped it in place, stuck an aluminium plate under the gap, when it was dry I filled in the gap from the top and leveled it all off smoothly.

As you say it looked exactly like a sunroof.

The fact that Aerospace use good adhesives may have helped.

[Jim Bell]

I have nothing of any value to contribute other than to declare in exasperation my bemusement that sunroofs were/are so popular in a land shrouded in windwhipped sheets of every size of precipitation ranging from drizzle to sideways rain apocalypse horror about 355 days a year. 

They're proof if proof be need be that we are sold romanticised possibilities rather than practicalities. 

Thank you for attending my unsolicited soapbox tirade on holes cut in car roofs on purpose. 

 

[Rust Collector]

2 hours ago, danthecapriman said:

That’s similar to what I use for cleaning the drains out. It usually does get some bits of crud out but not anything excessive that’d block it.

Mine were pretty blocked at the ‘one way’ valves at the end - I had to shove it in like I meant it to break through the crap. I was surprised at the amount of shite that fell out.

The other suggestion I’ve heard is fire compressed air down them, but I’ve had shit luck with that on windscreen washer pipes so didn’t even attempt it on the sunroof drains.

Question to the world in general - has anyone ever used that captain tolleys creeping crack cure (or whatever it’s called 😂) around a sunroof aperture? I hear folks rate it for sealing caravan windows back up, which I feel is a similar sort of problem.

[danthecapriman]

1 minute ago, Rust Collector said:

Mine were pretty blocked at the ‘one way’ valves at the end - I had to shove it in like I meant it to break through the crap. I was surprised at the amount of shite that fell out.

The other suggestion I’ve heard is fire compressed air down them, but I’ve had shit luck with that on windscreen washer pipes so didn’t even attempt it on the sunroof drains.

Question to the world in general - has anyone ever used that captain tolleys creeping crack cure (or whatever it’s called 😂) around a sunroof aperture? I hear folks rate it for sealing caravan windows back up, which I feel is a similar sort of problem.

I’ve heard of people using compressed air and accidentally blowing off the pipes in inaccessible places. Probably does work but use with care!

Captain Tolleys creeping crack cure - can you still get it? I’ve got an old tin in the garage somewhere. Used it years ago on a Volvo 244 (there’s a theme here!) and it did work. But I think it’s really for tiny gaps. The bigger leak on the windscreen it didn’t do anything. 
I’ve heard of people using thinned clear varnish to do the same thing with mixed results too.

[Rustybullethole]

Sikaflex is the stuff apparently. Used it twice when fitting skylights in vans with good effect. Amused me no end to be willingly cutting holes in transits after years of welding up the bastards.

Mastic can rot steel so be careful what you use. Had another transit where someone had used it to stick the rear plate on, it had rotted right through the door. 

I do love a sunroof. Great for venting out in a way that windows don't quite manage. I like gazing up at the sky through them too and that feeling of being outside but in. 

That said after bailing out and then the drying faff on the clio which was leaking (pissing through) the inner rubber seal I stuck it shut with whatever mastic was to hand. Luckily it was black so looks ok from ten paces. Any closer and it looks shit. Is dry though and its still to gaze through whilst I ride shotgun.

[danthecapriman]

28 minutes ago, Rustybullethole said:

Sikaflex is the stuff apparently. Used it twice when fitting skylights in vans with good effect. Amused me no end to be willingly cutting holes in transits after years of welding up the bastards.

Mastic can rot steel so be careful what you use. Had another transit where someone had used it to stick the rear plate on, it had rotted right through the door. 

I do love a sunroof. Great for venting out in a way that windows don't quite manage. I like gazing up at the sky through them too and that feeling of being outside but in. 

That said after bailing out and then the drying faff on the clio which was leaking (pissing through) the inner rubber seal I stuck it shut with whatever mastic was to hand. Luckily it was black so looks ok from ten paces. Any closer and it looks shit. Is dry though and its still to gaze through whilst I ride shotgun.

I’ve got a tube of black PU adhesive/sealer in the garage. Would that work?

Sikaflex is superb stuff. I used to use absolutely loads of the stuff in a coach builders job I had years back building truck bodies. Sikaflex was the go-to for gluing and sealing the fibreglass roof panels on with, backed up with rivets. Never had any leak.

[Mrcento]

Most of the PU adhesive is much of a muchness. I've used the cheap stuff from toolstation for years and tbh it's been every bit as good as stuff like tigerseal and sikaflex.

[Waderider]

I'm just going to put a (modern) story here as me and Volvos have history with water.

2003 Volvo V40 - no issues.

2010 Volvo V70 - had to get the windscreen rebonded to fix a water leak.

2010 Volvo C30 - had to get the windscreen replaced to fix a water leak.

2017 Volvo V40 - currently has an alarm malfunction following heavy rain, and condensating windows, but cant find the water ingress point or any actual water in the wrong place. Working through this problem atm.

2018 Volvo V90 - rear LED light lets water in and decides to switch off occasionally. Ignoring for now, may fit new lamp unit.

Sorry to hear 1980's Volvos also suffer from their inability to be waterproof!

 

[HMC]

I had a w126 SEC which had rotten sunroof drain tubes. I was going to replace them with copper pipe but the whole car was so rotten i sold it

My old 560SEC, with added water feature and aftermarket lightweight bodywork.

[danthecapriman]

Had a look this morning and opened the sunroof. 

It looks ok in there really! 
Theres very little dirt etc in the drain channel and I’ve poured a jug of water directly into the channel and all four drain tubes are working fine. 

I have absolutely no clue how it’s leaking. The felted seal around the sunroof lid isn’t in great condition, but as said, it’s more to stop wind noise than be completely water tight. Yet somehow it’s managing to fill up and overflow into the car. 
The headlining is dry on the drivers side but soaking on the passenger side though, so it seems to be getting in that side.

Ive found some rubber T shaped seal on eBay which has self adhesive bits under the top section, so I’ll try that first. Hopefully that will essentially form a watertight bridge over the gap between roof and sunroof. Of course you won’t be able to open the sunroof but who cares!