A tale of twa taxis

[320touring]

I've had the good fortune to bring two ex - taxis onto my fleet this year. Both of them high mileage and well worked.

They are both stereotypical examples of their different breeds, yet represent the significant shift in approach that the last 10years or so has brought to the taxi trade. This thread will compare and contrast the two - identifying their relative advantages and disadvantages based on my personal opinion and experience.

First up, the quintessential 21st century Taxi - a MK1 Skoda Octavia 1.9pd TDi.
When the mK1 Octavia was launched in 1996, it brought a very strong package to market - it was  based on the proven MK4 Golf platform, despite being Passat sized. It was also blessed with the VW diesel power plants ranging from the pre-pd 90bhp 1.9 TDI (ALH) up to the pd 130bhp 1.9TDI.

it had simple, fugged mechanics - including simple McPherson struts at the front which were much easier and cheaper to overhaul than the multi arm setup of the equivalent Passat.

Skoda did a tremendous job of enticing taxi companies to adopt the new car - offering great warranties, and attractive financing deals to get the model out and in every day use.

Fast forward to 2004 and Skoda launched the mk 2 Octavia. But they knew how well regarded their original car was, and they continued to offer the MK1 in a simple taxi spec.

This is what my first taxi is. A 2008! MK1 Octavia fitted with the 100bhp 1.9pd and a 5speed manual gearbox.

No trip computer, no cruise control, not even adjustable dash lighting when the headlights are on.

It's literally a great engine with a big hatchback body and seating for 5. Ideal. 

My example came to me in March 2024 as a mate was collecting a car from an hour north of me. He could have paid £30 for a single ticket on the train, but decided a more fun route would be to convince me to buy this blind, and he would deliver it.

It was so full of dog hair he had to take antihistamines to be able to drive it up to me. There was subsequently approximately 20hours spent cleaning the interior.

Also, did I mention it has over 300k miles on it ( I suspect more as it feels even more worn than that mileage suggests!)

[ProgRocker]

I can see the appeal. I consider the original Octavia to be a spiritual successor to the original SEAT Toledo. A model that @320touring also once owned. 

[320touring]

Next up - a 2018 Mk2 Nissan Leaf 40kw. This arrived in mid June 2024 having been de-fleeted from a large Dundee taxi outfit.

 

The MK1 Leaf was the first viable daily electric car that was mass market. It thrust the electric car into the public consciousness, moving the concept from 'early adoption' to 'relatively common'. Prior to owning this car, the only experience I had of driving an electric car was a quick demo run in a MK2 leaf from Enterprise - my work having signed up to use their fleet to reduce company co2 emissions.

 

I certainly remember their introduction, and recall being struck at how "normal" it was as a vehicle.

 

Fast forward from 2011 to 2018 when my Leaf was registered, and the operating environment for taxis had changed considerably. No longer were city centres accessible to anything diesel below euro 6, or anything petrol below euro 4. Stuff like the Octavia was just not viable for trade use anymore. 

 

Vehicles that met LEZ/ULEZ requirements were expensive and becoming increasingly complex in their efforts to meet emissions requirements. Diesels had DPFs, AD-BLU, and high pressure injection engines. Petrols are now relatively small capacity and highly stressed, with the widespread adoption of turbos to boost performance.

 

The Leaf offered a different approach - the basic premise being that there were fewer moving parts to go wrong, and no filters to clog or pee based fluids to run out of. Naturally, it wasn't all that simple. The Leaf is hampered by a couple of key challenges:

 

1.no active battery cooling - so no circulating coolant to manage the battery pack temperature. Not an issue during operation, but it can be problematic if using rapid charging more than once a day - if the pack gets too hot, the charging rate throttles back.

 

2. The Leaf uses Chademo DC fast charging - this maxes out at about 50kw - meaning that a full charge from empty can take about an hour on a 40kw model. It's not terrible, but it is significantly slower than later model electric cars which use CCS and can charge at about 3x that speed.

 

Nonetheless, the outfit that owned my car thought it was a viable option.

 

My car is quite the curiosity - it's a base model without climate control, meaning it also does not have a touchscreen - a big boon in my opinion.

They only built these for about 6 months before deleting the model from the range.

 

The MK2 Leaf is pretty much just a heavy facelift of the MK1, so the technology is not cutting edge. There is a bit more power - 150bhp on the 40kw model Vs the 107bhp of the MK1. The big battery (62kw) get 215bhp - a fair whack.

 

The drivetrain is robust, and well tested. The user interface is glitch free and well laid out, being simple for a novice like myself to navigate.

 

How tired is this Leaf? It currently has 132k miles on it after 6 years. The only visible issue appears to be the rear door seals are worn from passengers getting in and out. 

[loserone]

Obviously I haven't driven your fancy MK2 leaf, but the Octavia feels like it's something which will happily keep ferrying folk quietly around for another hundred thousand miles 

[320touring]

Practicality

 

The two are pretty evenly matched for interior space - two decent front seats with lots of legroom, and a bench rear seat capable of holding 2 in comfort, or 3 under duress.

 

I think the rear seats are a bit higher set in the Leaf - to clear the battery pack. Headroom in both is good, and the 4 passenger doors are of decent size for easy access and egress.

 

The major difference is in the boot. The Octavia's "sneaky saloon" design gives it a ridiculous capacity even with the rear seats up. With the rear seats down, it is frankly gargantuan in size.

 

This is a full size domestic fridge.

The Leaf is still well sized - and benefits from the full height nature of a hatchback. How big? Well, this is 1.5 drumkits...

[320touring]

Ergonomics/visibility/comfort 

Neither car appears to be uncomfortable for me or the passengers who ride in them. They do, however feel significantly different to sit in.

 

The Octavia has quite a low window line, whereas the Leaf feels like you sit much further down into the car. This is reinforced by the relatively poor forward visibility in the Leaf. 

 

I can't see the bonnet when sitting in my preft position, and the dash and windscreen seems extremely expensive, but not in a helpful way. Dash reflections onto the windscreen take some getting used to.

 

The hardest thing to adapt to though is the A pillar. Like most modern cars it's pretty thick, and despite a small relief window located in each side, visibility is poor. I suppose that's the trade off for the good passenger safety ratings.

 

The Octavia feels much more airy and the visibility to the front is much better. Rear visibility is also better - with the proviso that one remembers the 2ft of boot sticking out beyond the end of the rear window.

 

Curiously, the Leaf seems to suffer from a shoofly rear view mirror - whether this is a trait of this particular car or the marque, I do not know.

 

The front seats in the Leaf are the more comfortable, and offer a bigger range of adjustments. Additionally, without a manual gearbox to operate, the Leaf can make much better use of the space between front seats - the centre console hosts

 

A cubbyhole to the front

Two cupholders

A phone/key holder

An arm rest - this is fantastic for getting properly comfortable.

 

In contrast, the Octavia has a handbrake. Oh, and a shelf beneath the radio.

[High Jetter]

You are @warren t claim without the sex AICMFP

[320touring]

1 minute ago, High Jetter said:

You are @warren t claim without the sex AICMFP

Without the clap too😂

[High Jetter]

3 minutes ago, 320touring said:

Without the clap too😂

Applause is over rated!

[warren t claim]

36 minutes ago, 320touring said:

Without the clap too😂

I caught thatvfrom a secondhand porn mag. Nothing to do with driving a taxi. 

[warren t claim]

The Nissan Leaf has made zero inroads into the taxi community here. Not one example has been plated in my area. The EV taxis here consist of about five MG5s, One W.T.C shape Ioniq, half a dozen Ioniq 5s and a Tesla 3.

Back in 2004 we did have a fair few lads who took advantage of Cab Directs offer of a new Octavia SDi for £65 a week complete with keep fit windows front and rear. All of them suffered gearbox failures. The glacial performance wasn't as much of a problem as many were being bought to replace N/A Escort and Astra diesels which were no faster. There was a brief hour when I considered buying a couple of them new to rent out but I just couldn't make the numbers work out as I could have asked for no more than £90 a week for them which left me a slim profit margin after paying for dealer servicing to preserve the warranty.  I'd have had to have insisted on the driver paying £90 a week for fully comp insurance as well as opposed to £44 for third party only that was good enough on my Mk2 Mondeos. £180 a week to rent and insure a PH car is more than I pay now to rent and insure my Insignia today!

[Kiltox]

8 hours ago, warren t claim said:

The Nissan Leaf has made zero inroads into the taxi community here. Not one example has been plated in my area. The EV taxis here consist of about five MG5s, One W.T.C shape Ioniq, half a dozen Ioniq 5s and a Tesla 3.

 

I suspect the EV taxi boom in Scotland is directly related to there being taxpayer funded free charging available for years (now gone pretty much everywhere) 

[GMcD]

Ahhh MK1 Octavia taxis . Very nice.

If I recall they used to scuff their front bumpers something chronic over speed bumps. Large'ish overhang, combined with wee 14" steelies and taxi speed bump speeds (nae slowing as time is money)

Friends dad had 11 points at the time and replaced his taxi Fiat Marea for an MK1 SDI Octavia. I liked to think it was to save his licence (and livelihood) from his lead foot.

MK1 superbs seemed to be awfy popular round glesga as well thanks to the limo levels of rear legroom. 

 

[320touring]

7 hours ago, Kiltox said:

I suspect the EV taxi boom in Scotland is directly related to there being taxpayer funded free charging available for years (now gone pretty much everywhere) 

Aye I imagine there is a correlation 😂

11 minutes ago, GMcD said:

Ahhh MK1 Octavia taxis . Very nice.

If I recall they used to scuff their front bumpers something chronic over speed bumps. Large'ish overhang, combined with wee 14" steelies and taxi speed bump speeds (nae slowing as time is money)

Friends dad had 11 points at the time and replaced his taxi Fiat Marea for an MK1 SDI Octavia. I liked to think it was to save his licence (and livelihood) from his lead foot.

MK1 superbs seemed to be awfy popular round glesga as well thanks to the limo levels of rear legroom. 

 

Skillz. One of the best things about the Octavia is the ability to replicate the sound of a Saturday night out without spending £120 on beer ...

 

Just select 5th at 23mph and let the antistall get the shudder going good and proper!

[320touring]

Efficiency and "Range" **LONG POST**

 

This will likely be the most contentious section...

The VW pd should need no introduction - if you've been anywhere in the developed world in the last 20years, you'll have heard it, been in a car with it or been passed like you were standing still by one. It's ubiquitous.

And for good reason.

Good power, great economy (the 300k example in mine steadfastly returns low 50s to the gallon tank after tank), what's not to like?

Well: internal combustion engines are just not that efficient at turning liquid fuel into effective motion. 

Put 1 imperial Gallon of derv in the Octavia at a cost of £6.68 (1.469/L at my local garage currently) and I can make it 50-55miles depending on my driving style.

The Octavia can hold approx 12 Gallons (55L tank)

Of that 1 Gallon, only about a third is actually used to propel the car. The rest is used to do other things, like create the delightful diesel rumble, or generate the heat utilised to warm the cabin.

Whilst not necessarily a 'bad' thing, it's not the best use of the fuel for range. 

 

Handily, the Octavia gets round this in a couple of ways:

1. It can carry multiple gallons of fuel easily at once

2. It can be rapidly replenished as a vast array of easily accessible locations, without the need for the owner carrying specialized equipment or specific software.

These factors make it absolutely superb (wee Skoda pun there for you!) at a couple of very specific use cases FOR ME.

I Can fill the tank when I get paid, and be certain there is sufficient fuel present to cover the average mileage the car will do in a month. I have no commute, so one tank is usually enough.

Conversely, I do like a good roadtrip - and the effective range of the Octavia is a boon. Just last week, I drove to Manchester Airport via Nottingham (and the Cat and Fiddle Pass...) then went on holiday for a few days. Upon our return, I got into a car with just under a half tank showing and drove home. No stops for fuel, 570odd miles covered driving at the national limit as appropriate.

 

Our stops were only for passenger comfort (and in the case of a Tebay dinner, tradition or old charter).

Additionally, should the Octavia need replenishment, it is but the actual of a few moments anywhere en route. 

 

The Leaf on the other hand... Well.

Let's start with the basics here - this is all just roughly figured out, and based on terms/calculations I find helpful - please don't take it as gospel, and please DO offer corrections/observations - I'm pretty much a beginner at this EV lark!

 

My leaf has a 40kWh (kilo Watt hour)battery. How much is a kWh? 

I find a comparison with diesel to be helpful as at heart, I'm a chap who likes to work in MPG.

that 1 imperial Gallon of diesel we put in the Octavia has 48.87kWh, and the Octavia tank holds 12.1 gallons.

That means the Leaf's "fuel tank" is about 0.82 gallons - about 3.73 Litres.

 

Even then, the "fuel tank" doesn't let you use the full capacity - the battery software basically holds some of the top and some of the bottom of the charge so the battery doesn't get damaged. 

Add to that my leaf has had more rapid charges than I have had hot dinners (something that can adversely affect battery capacity over time due to heat whilst charging) and realistically, my leaf has a total useable battery of about 32kWh.

 

That 32kWh is only 66% of an imperial Gallon, or 3 litres.

That's basically 2/3rds of fuck all!

 

If it were as efficient as the Octavia, it'd do about 35miles on that 3 litres worth of power.

But it isn't! There are three things in its favour:

1. Electric motors are over 90% efficient at turning energy into motion

2. The Leaf is effectively direct drive - there is only one "gear" so very little in the way of transmission losses compared to a normal manual or automatic transmission.

3. Regenerative Braking means you can 'claim back' energy whilst slowing - there are several settings to do this depending on application/battery charge etc. it's not super efficient but it's at least as good as deceleration fuel cut off found in most modern ICE crs (where the injectors shut off if you are using engine braking/have no load on the engine)

 

These factors combine to mean that I've been able to get 100-110 miles from a full charge without performance being diminished.

 

If the Leaf had a battery to match the Octavia capacity in kWh, then the range would be about 2500+ miles on a single charge.

What's stopping it doing that?

 

Well. Current battery technology means that electricity can't be stored as densely as liquid fuel. But there are plenty electric cars out there with much larger batteries and longer range than my Leaf.

 

Additionally, charging and electric car is not (currently!) an 'active' activity. Technology does not allow users to get electricity into the car as quickly as a petrol pump - so charging is done as a 'passive' activity.

 

My Leaf is currently on a slow charge outside the house whilst I write this. It's filling up when I don't need it. 

 

If I was on a road trip, I could rapid charge at about 50kWh using a public charger. That's about 1 Gallon per hour in old money - so about 25-50mins for the Leaf depending on what level I start charging at.

 

More modern cars can do much better - but at the moment, the only way to recharge an electric car in a similar time to filling a fuel tank is to swap batteries - drained out, charged in. This tech isn't widespread in the UK and few cars have the quick release batteries that are needed to facilitate swapping.

All that said, what's MY use case and justification for the Leaf?

 

Well, it's multifaceted:

1. Around town/weekly shopping/train station trips - the Leaf is much cheaper, and more efficient than the Octavia.

2. Medium length trips (40-100 miles total) the Leaf is much cheaper than the Octavia. I pay 22p/kWh to charge at home(no smart meter/EV tariff currently), so about £4.50- £5.50 depending on how I drive. I also have the back up of public charging if needed.

3. (Still to be tested!) Longer distances. I expect to be able to start with the car fully charged at home and do about 180-200 miles by using 1 rapid charge en-route. This would be useful for overnights away or day trips where the car can be left to charge whilst doing activities at the destination. 

 

The current drawbacks of the Leaf are all somewhat ameliorated by buying a (more expensive) more modern electric car.

A bigger battery means better range, means fewer rechargeable needed for a given distance, and a reduced dependency on public infrastructure if charging away from home.

 

To sum up, the Octavia is less efficient, but has better range due to it's ability to carry much more energy. The Leaf is significantly more efficient, but suffers due to the long replenishing times, and small available capacity.

 

The Octavia can do 100% of the different journey types we need - from sub 1 mile up to multiple hundreds in one day.

 

Based on limited experience so far (and expected performance on longer distance stuff) I think the Leaf can cover approx 80% of our journeys more efficiently, and with relatively little additional time

[320touring]

Dynamics

 

I know. Not the word you'd expect to see associated with either of these vehicles...

 

But let's try.

 

Firstly - both these cars are high miles and not exactly in the first flush of youth. Components are tired, worn and functioning below optimal performance.

 

Handily, I have a wealth of experience driving old tubs, so I feel well placed to offer some observations.

 

The Octavia is the more engaging of the two to drive - there is a real sense that you are directly responsible for it moving down the road. 

 

You pick the gear, the amount of throttle and need to know the torque characteristics of the engine to make good progress.

 

Overtaking on A roads (say passing someone doing 35 in a 60) takes planning, and anticipation of what the car will do.

 

Despite not having much feedback from the power steering, it's still significantly more communicative than the Leaf. I have a rough idea of what the front end is doing all the time.

 

The suspension on my Octavia is very tired, but I recall, even when new, the MK4 golf platform (at least the non GTI ones) wasn't at the cutting edge of the handling spectrum.

 

Braking is adequate, rather than impressive, and acceleration is somewhat 'spikey' as you approach, then pass through the boost window in the mapping. Handily, this last point can be easily addressed with some defy software usage and remapping.

 

The Leaf presents a different proposition. 

 

I don't view it as a car I engage with - the lack of noise, lack of gear changes and entirely devoid of feeling electrical steering means that I see it as an almost autonomous mode of transport.

 

I sometimes find myself arriving at my destination with little recall of anything other than my choice of tunes.

 

That said, it does have some advantages over the Octavia.

 

Overtaking on A roads is a doddle + literally point and squirt. No lag, no waiting for the fuel pump to increase fuelling. No making sure you have the correct gear selected. Just a big wodge of torque, and job done.

 

Despite also being high miles (Albeit approx 1/3 the miles of the Octavia), the dampers are in much better condition. Couple this to the low centre of gravity afforded by the massive traction battery, and it is much more poised when cornering with gusto.

 

The instant torque is also good when exiting corners - but the steering really does dampen any enthusiasm I have for driving it quickly.

 

Additionally, the afore mentioned A pillar visibility issue makes it harder to cleanly spot where the front right of the car is aimed when cornering.

 

All in all, they are fairly balanced and would add up to one excellent vehicle if you could have:

The centre of gravity of the Leaf

The steering of the Octavia

The silence of the Leaf and

The range of the Octavia.

 

Obviously this is available, but it costs significantly more than either of these cars (and well above my comfort zone!)

[sdkrc]

I was just a passenger in the Leaf. What a car. Immense value. I will seriously be considering a @Kiltox EV when I'm not poor in 2027