Classic car values

[sierraman]

10 minutes ago, Bren said:

It's lack of disposable income that I think is the biggest issue. Things are getting more expensive. People don't have the money anymore.

I was thinking of selling my busa - it's an early one in copper / silver. I have been watching the classifieds and ebay - unless it's an auction they aren't selling - if there's a reserve they aren't selling either.

People do have the disposable for things like classic cars but they’re not your typical person that would have had one years ago. These Fred in a Shed type folks are thin on the ground, a bit like a lot of these sixties cars that are falling in demand/price.
 

These people that want them are unfortunately dwindling in number and those that have the money don’t want rubbish ones. You’ve only to look in things like PC, the folks with the money want the best ones and they’ll be inclined to get the chequebook out for any work. You’ve only don’t really see so many folks doing up an old car on their garden over the summer like you used to, they’ve been priced out of it over past 10 years. 

[SiC]

This, on my watch list, has just dropped £1k. Until recently a 10 grand usable Frogeye would have been snapped up let alone needing reducing under that price point.

I want one but with prices falling there is no point me buying just yet until they stabilise. While they have fairly universal appeal to look at, to drive is a different matter. Really low, slow and bumpy compared to modern traffic around you. Then the quarter leaf suspension tries to throw you off a very bumpy road if you're not careful - cute and cuddly looking but with a bite to that happy face.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/326567033706

[EyesWeldedShut]

"What happened to prices in 2023 vs 2024?
Put very simply, the collector car market overall saw prices fall 10.2% between 2023 vs 2024, down from £24,750 to £22,223."

The writer says that's global, UK was -14% - wonder what 2024 vs 2025 will be?
https://www.theclassicvaluer.com/post/market-here-s-what-really-happened-in-the-collector-car-market-in-2024

[R Lutz]

I can't see prices rising in this parliament such is the negative financial vibes coming from this government; that's hammering benefits and making employing people more expensive.  The only thing that might lift it is if they get rid of the £20k cash isa. Plus emissions zone bollocks. 

[chadders]

How many people are confident about their finances at the moment?

It's looking very likely Reeves will have to do another tax raid as she's got her sums completely wrong even without allowing for the 'Trump Effect'. Milliband will also continue hitting us in the pocket with his unaffordable fantasises.

If you're old you realise that there will be a time when you won't be able to drive and every year that you wait, in order to save money, is one less to enjoy driving whatever it is. This might help put a floor on prices but as has been said it looks like prices are only going one way.

[EyesWeldedShut]

1 hour ago, chadders said:

How many people are confident about their finances at the moment?

I have supreme confidence in the fact that my finances are one the way down* but, fuckit, shrouds don't have pockets. 
I don't think that the pukka, super-expensive, 'collectable' (i.e. investment) type cars will change that much. That's a rarefied market populated by a lot of mini-Bezos types who'll take market fluctuations on the chin. It's the lower strata that are seeing people bailing out and, once you get to my bottom-feeding level? Daily driver quality* tat is definitely getting cheaper.
So much so that I have managed to sneak a low mileage R170 SLK320 past my missus and into the fold - that was going well until she found out that it isn't a 230, I blame number blindness.

*1.7% pay rise backdated to 1st April - whoooooo - better than an unexpected P45 and a gold watch I guess.

 

[chadders]

I very much agree with the shrouds don't have pockets sentiment.

I'm not confident of my finances, Trump has hit my savings, but these things usually bounce back. Whether it's in my lifetime is a different issue.

About 20 years ago we promised the boys we'd give them some money for house/flat deposits, that is now 'ringfenced'. Their view of the remainder is that it's our money to do what we want with so it's time to put my thinking head on.

I'll get some flak but given she got a new 500C a few months ago I'm not that worried, she's not that much of a hypocrite.

 

[IronStar]

Keep in mind that prices going back to pre-COVID levels essentially means ~25% discount on top if you adjust for inflation. Most of our paychecks not following the inflation or CPI is a different matter. 

[Matty]

Maybe missing the point i know, but I'm of the mind that whilst mine might be worth less, anything I might replace it with will be worth less. So level pegging so to speak. 

[SiC]

14 minutes ago, Matty said:

Maybe missing the point i know, but I'm of the mind that whilst mine might be worth less, anything I might replace it with will be worth less. So level pegging so to speak. 

The more expensive stuff is dropping faster than the cheaper stuff and so the amount to put in to change up is potentially less. Plus the more interesting point is that stuff that was previously unaffordable starts to become affordable to buy. 

[sierraman]

The problem is there’s a lot of ruins about, I’m not interested in buying one but just anecdotally I was looking at what Capris go for these days on eBay. They seemed to break down into three categories:

1) Fucked and never ever, ever going to see the road again - this was probably 30% of them. Big gaping holes in the floor, wings that are several hundred quid a piece to replace - knackered. You’d be thick end of £20k just to get the body something like and it’d still not be right. Bin fodder. Still people want a couple of grand…

2) On the road and running but clearly full of work of a very variable quality. But they’re wanting £7-8k. Loads of hints of big trouble ahead like the screen pillars going or the a-posts being patch over patch. Might look ok at a distance but just full of half arsed work. 
 

3) Something superb, been restored properly possibly professionally. Everything done right and started with a good one to begin with. £15-20k but they start to look cheap when the first two types would cost considerably more to get anything like right. 

Now I don’t know if any of these sell for anything like what’s asked  but the last one is always going to be worth something, the first two are just going to be throwing good money after bad. The folks with the money want nothing but the 3) ones, they don’t want a 1.6 Laser with a Mk2 Grill hacked onto it, some Hadrian Panel sills hammered over the old ones, and a coat of Matt black paint on it. 

[chadders]

13 minutes ago, sierraman said:

The problem is there’s a lot of ruins about, I’m not interested in buying one but just anecdotally I was looking at what Capris go for these days on eBay. They seemed to break down into three categories:

1) Fucked and never ever, ever going to see the road again - this was probably 30% of them. Big gaping holes in the floor, wings that are several hundred quid a piece to replace - knackered. You’d be thick end of £20k just to get the body something like and it’d still not be right. Bin fodder. Still people want a couple of grand…

2) On the road and running but clearly full of work of a very variable quality. But they’re wanting £7-8k. Loads of hints of big trouble ahead like the screen pillars going or the a-posts being patch over patch. Might look ok at a distance but just full of half arsed work. 
 

3) Something superb, been restored properly possibly professionally. Everything done right and started with a good one to begin with. £15-20k but they start to look cheap when the first two types would cost considerably more to get anything like right. 

Now I don’t know if any of these sell for anything like what’s asked  but the last one is always going to be worth something, the first two are just going to be throwing good money after bad. The folks with the money want nothing but the 3) ones, they don’t want a 1.6 Laser with a Mk2 Grill hacked onto it, some Hadrian Panel sills hammered over the old ones, and a coat of Matt black paint on it. 

3/ would probably have cost a lot more than that to have been restored professionally judging by my experience of a T2 and MGB. It's not many hours at £50-60+ quid an hour and then then there's the parts, if they're available.

[Matty]

45 minutes ago, SiC said:

The more expensive stuff is dropping faster than the cheaper stuff and so the amount to put in to change up is potentially less. Plus the more interesting point is that stuff that was previously unaffordable starts to become affordable to buy. 

There's a lovely Mk2 Vitesse in Laural on car and classic. Unfortunatly im miles away from it in monetary terms and then it'd need an O/D box buying mending and fitting.

[sierraman]

9 minutes ago, chadders said:

3/ would probably have cost a lot more than that to have been restored professionally judging by my experience of a T2 and MGB. It's not many hours at £50-60+ quid an hour and then then there's the parts, if they're available.

This is it, could realistically be looking at double what they’re asking for it. They’ve probably started with a good one anyway, it’s always going to be worth something as it’s a first class example of the car. The ruins unfortunately tend to fall into the hands of someone not in a position to do it properly anyway so they just deteriorate until it ends up being swept up with a broom when the wife throws them out. The ones in the middle are probably the most dangerous, under the veneer they’re probably as bad as the 1) option. 

[sierraman]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/197293178447?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=_e0uWooQTgu&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=0gRg2HOGS5y&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
 

Something like that, £31k, it’s never going to be worth five grand or something ludicrous. It’s a proper example that isn’t likely to dip in popularity in near future. You couldn’t restore a bad one to that price for sure. 

[Matty]

1 hour ago, sierraman said:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/197293178447?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=_e0uWooQTgu&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=0gRg2HOGS5y&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
 

Something like that, £31k, it’s never going to be worth five grand or something ludicrous. It’s a proper example that isn’t likely to dip in popularity in near future. You couldn’t restore a bad one to that price for sure. 

The problem with that being once you've put 31 in it you wouldn't dare use it or go anywhere in it. Mechanically on the mark slightly scruffy cars are the ones getting oined to death all summer. Which is what they were made for in the first place after all.

[sierraman]

1 minute ago, Matty said:

The problem with that being once you've put 31 in it you wouldn't dare use it or go anywhere in it. Mechanically on the mark slightly scruffy cars are the ones getting oined to death all summer. Which is what they were made for in the first place after all.

This is the problem. You can end up with something practically useless. That said it’s perfectly useable for going out to a country pub in or whatever, you’d probably not be getting the arse end out on a roundabout to show off to to some women like they’d have been doing back in the day 😂

[danthecapriman]

This is the issue though.

Classic cars have become something beyond being a classic car. They’ve become an investment, which is not something they should be.

A classic car used to be and still is to the normal people, a hobby that’s done for the love of it and that’s it. 
My Capri I have and rebuilt for the love of the car. Yes, I could have spent less buying a top notch car in the first place but where is the fun in that? I’ve had mine donkeys years and love it to bits. Yes, it was a ropey old turd really and it’s far from the most desirable spec, but that makes it unique imho. I’ve had it so long and driven so much I know it inside out! 
That, imho, is the classic car hobby and what it should be!

I remember once watching one of the classic car TV programs and there was a Sierra Cosworth going off to auction. Lovely car (although I’m more into the lower spec models!) but it went at the predictable end of the price spectrum. 
The TV crew spoke to the buyers after the auction and asked them a bit about it and why they bought it…    
… These guys were pretty much clueless about the car, and they bought it for an investment. 
I thought at the time they were a pair of wankers but there you go. This is not what the hobby is about! 
That poor Sierra will now get trailered back to some garage somewhere and left there to ‘appreciate’ before being punted out to auction again at the opportune moment. It won’t be seen or enjoyed unless it’s to ‘big up’ the owners ego when one of his jumped up mates pays a visit. 
It’s a real pity. 
The knock on effect is that your average Jo then can’t afford one. So he has to look lower down the food chain, as do all the other average Jo’s, which then pushes up the prices of the lower end cars. These then become out of reach to the peasant Jo’s so they then have to start grasping at the bottom end of the market cars that need work - the prices for those then start rising too.

The hobby is far far better without the investment types being involved imho. Fuck them and their money! Leave cars to car guys. The very people who know what the cars are and how to restore and look after them, and then use them.

[SiC]

Buy a £5k to £10k slightly tatty example and just drive the fuck out of it while having a lot of fun. Keep it in a garage and it won't degrade further very quickly at all. 

Leave the shiny ones to those that want to trailer it to a show and get their enjoyment from others gawking at what they have bought. 

[SiC]

A great example of this. Not immaculate but not completely rough either. Perfectly usable fun classic for less than most 5yr old 'newer' cars. Quite easy for many to afford as a small treat with money from a bonus/savings/inheritance/etc. Not scary to fix and run without needing to worry about big expenditures. This is what the hobby is/should be about.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/226738315011

[IronStar]

Cars are meant to be driven IMO. 

21 minutes ago, danthecapriman said:

This is the issue though.

Classic cars have become something beyond being a classic car. They’ve become an investment, which is not something they should be.

A classic car used to be and still is to the normal people, a hobby that’s done for the love of it and that’s it. 
My Capri I have and rebuilt for the love of the car. Yes, I could have spent less buying a top notch car in the first place but where is the fun in that? I’ve had mine donkeys years and love it to bits. Yes, it was a ropey old turd really and it’s far from the most desirable spec, but that makes it unique imho. I’ve had it so long and driven so much I know it inside out! 
That, imho, is the classic car hobby and what it should be!

I remember once watching one of the classic car TV programs and there was a Sierra Cosworth going off to auction. Lovely car (although I’m more into the lower spec models!) but it went at the predictable end of the price spectrum. 
The TV crew spoke to the buyers after the auction and asked them a bit about it and why they bought it…    
… These guys were pretty much clueless about the car, and they bought it for an investment. 
I thought at the time they were a pair of wankers but there you go. This is not what the hobby is about! 
That poor Sierra will now get trailered back to some garage somewhere and left there to ‘appreciate’ before being punted out to auction again at the opportune moment. It won’t be seen or enjoyed unless it’s to ‘big up’ the owners ego when one of his jumped up mates pays a visit. 
It’s a real pity. 
The knock on effect is that your average Jo then can’t afford one. So he has to look lower down the food chain, as do all the other average Jo’s, which then pushes up the prices of the lower end cars. These then become out of reach to the peasant Jo’s so they then have to start grasping at the bottom end of the market cars that need work - the prices for those then start rising too.

The hobby is far far better without the investment types being involved imho. Fuck them and their money! Leave cars to car guys. The very people who know what the cars are and how to restore and look after them, and then use them.

I can now go on a rant about our economic system trying to squeeze money out of everything at any cost, but I'll just leave it at - I wholeheartedly agree with you, with a small caveat - those people doing whatever the hell they're doing also kickstarted limited repro part production (or kept existing alive) so silver lining and all that.

IMO, cars are meant to be driven. Unless you're an investment banker type that sees everything as an investment vessel, what's the point of owning it if you never do what it's meant to do? Yes, stupid money was spent on it. Maybe don't drive it when the roads are salty, as it will deteriorate much faster. But, as long as you're enjoying yourself, that's kinda the point, isn't it?

[MiniMinorMk3]

On 05/05/2025 at 19:29, MJK 24 said:

Here’s the sale prices from yesterdays auction, including the buyers premiums:

https://auctions.hampsonauctions.com/auction/details/-the-bolesworth-castle-may-2025-classic-performance--supercar-auction/?au=30

Thanks for posting.

I notice that the 1071 Mini Cooper S did not sell. Those have regularly had £40-50,000 price tags in recent years, and that one with a £35,000 restoration would probably have ended up going that way a few years ago.

[SiC]

£40k

Mini countryman electric 

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202501027667926

 

Or a Ferrari 456GT Manual

https://auctions.hampsonauctions.com/auction/lot/lot-36---1996-ferrari-456-gt/?lot=2214&so=0&st=&sto=0&au=30&ef=&et=&ic=False&sd=1&pp=96&pn=1&g=1

How is a flip up headlight, manual gated and a v12 engined Ferrari only worth that I don't know. 

My sister has just got a (new PCP) countryman electric with a new price of that. I know what I'd would have bought instead.

What a fabulous time it is if you're a car enthusiast brave enough. 

[sierraman]

I don’t think you can completely knock the fact that some cars are now pretty valuable, if a Capri 280 was worth £3,000 for example they’d not be financially worth restoring to top condition (then again what is?). The fact that they’re now worth a bob or two means that £20,000 bodywork job is more likely to get done. If a Mk1 Mondeo for example wanted a bit of welding on the backs of the sills, clutch was on it a way out  etc then it’s probably going to find its way on to the banger racing circuit. If it was worth £15k or something it’s much more likely to be preserved. 
 

As much as it galls me to see the lack of Fred in his Shed type restorations being usurped by Quentin and his chequebook it’s swings and roundabouts. 

[SiC]

Does anyone on here have enough old classic car mags with prices around the 1990 crash? I know there was a bit of a blood bath back then. Especially on the exotics. 

 

While I'm too young to remember that, I remember used car prices crashing in 2008. A Lotus Elise S1 going from £14k to £5k in a few months. 

Mrs SiC, back then Ms SiC, went with myself to a Mazda dealer. We bought a 2yr old MX5 NC still under warranty for £7200. Only a few months before they were going for £12k-15k on the exact same age + mileage. Many dealers were stuck with stock bought near that price and still trying to shift them at that. Despite other dealers buying in for half and shifting them on by the bucket load. 

If you look back at new car threads on Pistonheads around 2008, there are posts where people who bought them on finance debating giving them back as the equity left was more than it's value. Iirc if you've paid half you can give them back scot-free (albeit no money or have any assets) under finance laws. 

While you won't get a Ferrari F40 for 40k, if things keep dropping then stuff halving in value is entirely plausible.

Also begs the question where the floor is. While it's dropping, more and more people will naturally stop buying to wait. Usually though that is at the end of a summer season, not start as people want their toys. But there will be a point where values are low enough that people will go "what the hell, it's only chicken feed and I'm buying one now". Maybe the blood bath is yet to come?

Or it'll settle out and stabilise. (I can't see that happening with the world market fuck ups getting worse)

[RayMK]

@SiC, I did not really notice the price crash of the 1990's and did not buy many mags at the time.  This was probably because I was not interested in exotics. Instead, having enjoyed the delights of a brand new Hyundai Stellar (a make I'd never heard of) in the mid 80s/early 90s, then a recent Hyundai Sonata,  I began to look longingly at a Citroen CX GTI Turbo 2 at a nearby dealers.  It was too expensive at £6500.  Then it was suddenly reduced to £5750.  Self control collapsed, aided by man maths,  and the Sonata was traded in against  the CX.  What a car!  It felt exotic.  I only kept it for about 9 months because the damned thing made 120mph feel like 70mph, so effortless, stable and comfortable at all times.  My licence was at risk.  I p/ex'd it for a cheap 2nd hand Sonata for the 25 miles each way commute, then noticed a BMW320i (E28) in a local garage. It was cheap, I had a test drive and was smitten. I bought it of course.  It was exotic in its own way and ultra refined (manual, 6 cyl.).  Perhaps its unexpectedly low price was also a result of the depressed market at the time.  In subsequent years, classic car magazines gradually became obsessed with car values until, by around 2010, pundits were promoting the idea of exotics being 'investments,'  often degrading the mag content to little more than an investment guide rather than dwelling on the much more interesting engineering, ownership and driving experiences of proper motoring journalists.  With the high profile pundits talking the markets upwards it always looked to me like a bubble that was bound to burst.  Yesterday whilst browsing ebay for classics it was apparent that another major dealer or auction house was trying to shift 100s of exotics in the £100K plus range.  It looked like a panic to me but I've no idea whether the prices were attractive i.e. a bit lower to get shot of them before the market crashed further.  As already mentioned, exotics don't really interest me.  My ebay browsing experience became tedious with all the pricey stuff flooding the pages so I gave up.   

[chadders]

This only goes back to 1999 but compares them with the DAX, the German stock market, and the Dow Jones. I didn't notice the price crash as we both had company cars and were also busy raising two kids.

[sierraman]

This all depends on your expectations as well, it’s extremely rarely a choice between an electric Mini and a Ferrari 456. Both bought by completely different people. 
 

You can focus a bit too much on the ‘am I going to lose money on this’, if having a semi presentable Capri in the garage is going to make you happy go for it but get something that’s a good basis and steer clear of ruins that come in boxes of bits as unless you are extremely lucky it’s not going to go as planned. Fair point there are some semi decent ones for £6k but I’ve got no indoor storage and a new kitchen to fit and pay for. 🥹

[danthecapriman]

2 hours ago, sierraman said:

I don’t think you can completely knock the fact that some cars are now pretty valuable, if a Capri 280 was worth £3,000 for example they’d not be financially worth restoring to top condition (then again what is?). The fact that they’re now worth a bob or two means that £20,000 bodywork job is more likely to get done. If a Mk1 Mondeo for example wanted a bit of welding on the backs of the sills, clutch was on it a way out  etc then it’s probably going to find its way on to the banger racing circuit. If it was worth £15k or something it’s much more likely to be preserved. 
 

As much as it galls me to see the lack of Fred in his Shed type restorations being usurped by Quentin and his chequebook it’s swings and roundabouts. 

That imho is the only danger with dropping prices.

Because things, particularly lower down the food chain price-wise, are now becoming worth much less they might end up being banger raced or scrapped instead of saved. Obviously there’s always an amount of classics that are too far gone but it’s not good when rough but saveble stuff is being destroyed just because it’s worth-less and now affordable to those that want to destroy it. Likewise if some genuinely good cars just drop in value enough to fall into that category well end up seeing some cars destroyed that really shouldn’t ever have been purely because it’s ‘value’ is low.

[Jazoli]

14 minutes ago, sierraman said:

This all depends on your expectations as well, it’s extremely rarely a choice between an electric Mini and a Ferrari 456. Both bought by completely different people. 

Yep, the Mini will cost 2p a mile to run, the Ferrari most likely £20 per mile, I'd have one of each.