1987 Ford Sierra Sapphire 1.8L - Engine & gearbox removal - Part 1 - see page 55

[kevins]

It's down to cost, OEM's can still make rubber bits which last, unfortunately the aftermarket seems to be in a downward spiral to produce the cheapest parts/ biggest profits.

Sierras always were sensitive to brake judder, it's down to the suspension geometry,  there should be a lot of compliance fore and aft in the control arm bush it was to improve NVH.

[Matty]

3 hours ago, danthecapriman said:

See also - condensers. Old ones used to be pretty good. Modern ones are absolutely crap.

Im still buying mine from Distributor Doctor. Not dear (and pretty good. Ive only had one fail quick but you win some and all that).

[danthecapriman]

3 minutes ago, Matty said:

Im still buying mine from Distributor Doctor. Not dear (and pretty good. Ive only had one fail quick but you win some and all that).

I’ve gone over to electronic ignition on my two now. So far so good (knock on wood).

That was motivated by lack of patience really. Buying condensers that were faulty from new and I just got pissed off with it. Splashed out on the electronic kits which both worked flawlessly out of the box and not had to touch them ever since. 
That said though, I still keep the points and last working condenser in the cars - just in case!

[Matty]

21 minutes ago, danthecapriman said:

I’ve gone over to electronic ignition on my two now. So far so good (knock on wood).

That was motivated by lack of patience really. Buying condensers that were faulty from new and I just got pissed off with it. Splashed out on the electronic kits which both worked flawlessly out of the box and not had to touch them ever since. 
That said though, I still keep the points and last working condenser in the cars - just in case!

Still havent made the leap. Dad has a mk3 Spit on leccy ignition that so far seems good. But then points and condensor havent been a problem for me so far. @bigstraight6 has give me stick in the past for still messing with bits of bent tin and, no doubt, he will be proved right in the fullness of time 🤣

[Peter C]

I came home from this morning's autumn drive in the MGB, had my lunch and the postman knocked twice and left a package on my doorstep.

Looks promising.

Ever heard of Apec brake discs? Me neither.

At least they're the right shape and size.

The discs were covered with a greasy protective coating, which needed cleaning off.

I started on the offside.

With the brake disc removed, the hub's mating surface was exposed. There was some surface corrosion.

Old disc v new disc.

Don't look very different, do they!

I locked the hub with a crowbar and cleaned off the corrosion with a wire brush attachment on a drill.

I got the corrosion off but a fair bit of pitting remains. There's nothing I can do about that, unless I remove the hub and have it skimmed. Or replace it.

The brake pads weren't particularly glazed but I rubbed them down with 80 grade sandpaper.

I fitted the new disc. The old discs were so fresh that the caliper piston didn't need to be pushed in to get the new disc on.

I did the same on the other side.

The hub was just as rusty.

But it cleaned up a little better.

I also cleaned the carrier, where the pad was stuck first time I removed it.

And I fitted the new disc.

With the wheels back on and a change of clothes, I took the Sierra for a test drive.

I did two rounds from M40 J3 to J4 and back again. On the downhill section of the motorway I applied a fair bit of force and slowed the Sierra down from 70MPH-45MPH a few times and the same at lower speeds on the slip roads. By the time I got home and got out, I could smell the brakes. I didn't cook them, just gave them a good workout. I am pleased to report that there is no more brake judder. The steering wheel is rock solid whenever the brakes are applied. Win.

It's hard to say whether removing a bit of surface corrosion from the hubs made any difference. I suspect that the old brake discs, or at least one of them, was warped and fitting new discs solved the problem. 

The thing is, the brake judder only started occurring fairly recently. I never drive the Sierra hard enough to cook the brakes and I certainly never drove it through deep water or in the rain, so why did the disc/s warp? Who cares, problem solved.

Thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread this week, your advice and words of encouragement mean a lot to me.

I'm off for a flu jab. Guess which car I'm taking! 

 

[danthecapriman]

Success!🥳

Its probably a warped disc in my opinion, but either way its yesterdays problem now so who gives shit.

I was reading something ages back about non OE brake parts (sad aren’t I!?) and apparently there are problems with cheap discs not being very well made and warping through heat. I don’t think it’s anything you’re doing by being heavy on the brakes, it’s the way some discs are made. 
It can be caused by (apparently) holding the car on the foot brake a lot. Most of the disc cools naturally in the air, but the bit of disc under the two pads being clamped against it cools much slower which tends to warp the disc. No idea if that’s really true or not, just what I’ve heard.

But, brilliant that you fixed it anyway👍

[Peter C]

@danthecapriman

I tend to coast to a standstill and only use the brakes in emergencies. After slowing down from higher speeds, I always let the brakes cool before reapplication and would never keep them applied whilst stationary.

The old discs are Pagits, which are not that shit. Are they? I had a full set of Pagit discs and pads fitted to my W123 years ago and they’re just fine.

 

[Rightnider]

Sierras were notorious for getting warped discs here in Sweden back in the day. I can’t see why they’d be more prone than others, but they were. 

[AnnoyingPentium]

Apec aren't too bad as a brand, IME. They were the only place I could source calipers for the Vectra B.

[Peter C]

Flu jab achieved.

Nobody guessed, I took the Sierra.

[danthecapriman]

Hands down, the best looking car in the car park👍

[Brigsy]

Might have just been pad deposits on the old discs.

The megane rs suffer from it. 70-30mph hard braking 3-5 times in sucession usually sorts it out, get the discs glowing a bit.

[beko1987]

I've used Apec discs before on various boring vauxhalls and they've always been fine 👍

Glad it cured your wobble! I've got a tiny murmer of wobble through my front brakes when mildly braking, but I'm gonna look at that next year, plenty of meat on them for now 

[Noel Tidybeard]

On 27/10/2025 at 18:13, Peter C said:

On the nearside, the outer pad was stuck to the caliper and needed removing with a hammer. I removed the rust and coated contact points with copper grease but the problem persists.

❌ copper grease can make brakes bind

[High Jetter]

3 minutes ago, Noel Tidybeard said:

❌ copper grease can make brakes bind

Only when it's old, shirley?

[Noel Tidybeard]

Just now, High Jetter said:

Only when it's old, shirley?

i think the fact there is foreign matter (the copper) is the problem 

i've seen a lot of yootoob vids with experienced mechanical types saying to only use proper brake grease

[High Jetter]

2 minutes ago, Noel Tidybeard said:

i think the fact there is foreign matter (the copper) is the problem 

i've seen a lot of yootoob vids with experienced mechanical types saying to only use proper brake grease

Which is? Copaslip worked fine, years ago

[Mrcento]

2 minutes ago, High Jetter said:

Which is? Copaslip worked fine, years ago

Red rubber grease or ceramic grease, generally.

Especially on the sliders.

Copper works ok for the most part, but think it eventually attracts more crap off the brakes and gums up a little quicker.

[Noel Tidybeard]

5 minutes ago, High Jetter said:

Which is? Copaslip worked fine, years ago

e.g

 

[High Jetter]

7 minutes ago, Mrcento said:

Red rubber grease or ceramic grease, generally.

Especially on the sliders.

Copper works ok for the most part, but think it eventually attracts more crap off the brakes and gums up a little quicker.

Yup, hence only when it's old.

[High Jetter]

7 minutes ago, Noel Tidybeard said:

e.g

 

Granville is a name that's been around for decades! Petropatcb?

[Andyrew]

9 hours ago, Noel Tidybeard said:

 experienced mechanical types saying to only use proper brake grease

Proper brake grease is nicer to use , Copper grease is now not recommended as the theory is that it can cause issues with sensors in the hub area.

Does it actually? Probably not. 

 

[lisbon_road]

4 minutes ago, Andyrew said:

Proper brake grease is nicer to use , Copper grease is now not recommended as the theory is that it can cause issues with sensors in the hub area.

Does it actually? Probably not. 

 

I reckon Peter will be ok there with the Sierra!

I use red rubber grease for the seals inside callipers, slider grease for sliders and copper grease very sparingly for the edges of pads -   I hope I've got it right.  

[danthecapriman]

Must admit I’ve always used copper grease on brakes. Never had any problems, but I only use it sparingly. 
I sometimes put a light coat on the hub - disc join surface and disc - wheel join surface to stop corrosion and the parts seizing together. Probably makes me the devil to some though😆

[lisbon_road]

19 minutes ago, danthecapriman said:

Must admit I’ve always used copper grease on brakes. Never had any problems, but I only use it sparingly. 
I sometimes put a light coat on the hub - disc join surface and disc - wheel join surface to stop corrosion and the parts seizing together. Probably makes me the devil to some though😆

I do that.  Reckon the key point is 'sparingly'.  Which basically means a tiny smear, not slobbering it everywhere.  

[MrBig]

19 hours ago, Peter C said:

Flu jab achieved.

Nobody guessed, I took the Sierra.

You could have walked that  

Amazing the size difference in modern cars. Don't ever remember feeling cramped in a Sierra back in the day!

[Peter C]

4 minutes ago, MrBig said:

You could have walked that  !

Why walk when you can drive a Sierra?

[Talbot]

20 hours ago, danthecapriman said:

Hands down, the smallest car in the car park👍

For anyone who doesn't believe that cars have become utterly bloated, this is the perfect picture to show them.

[MrBig]

3 hours ago, Peter C said:

Why walk when you can drive a Sierra?

Excellent point. Well made! 😄

[Peter C]

20 minutes ago, MrBig said:

Excellent point. Well made! 😄

But I am curious how you know that I could have walked to the destination.