1987 Ford Sierra Sapphire 1.8L - Absolutely fascinating* discovery - see page 48

[Peter C]

  On 29/03/2024 at 17:09, robt100 said:

Clutch replacement might be easier than you think, depends on the output shaft on the gearbox, whether it is a rubber doughnut or one of those sleeved joints where the prop can just be pulled out. If its the latter, I believe there is enough play to just loosen the mounts, pull the gearbox back and swap out the clutches with the box in place. I know thats how the garage did one on my Capri, took them all of 20mins 😅

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Best I can do is raise the Sierra on axle stands and balance the gearbox on a trolley jack. One false move and I end up with the gearbox on the floor, maybe a life changing injury and no chance of getting the ‘box back on. For that reason, I’m out.

[Peter C]

  On 29/03/2024 at 17:35, SiC said:

Keep the old cable as you may need it in the future to make up a replacement or get someone else to make a replacement. 

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I will hang on to it until the new cable is on and doing its job. Replacements are readily available and cheap.

[Mr Pastry]

  On 29/03/2024 at 17:48, Peter C said:

Fucking peer pressure!

I will have a go at removing the pedal box tomorrow and check out what state the quadrant is in.

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Sorry mate, just saying.   And you only have to take the pedal off, not the whole pedal box.

But you clearly don't need my ideas, so I will delete my posts and leave you to it.

 

 

[Peter C]

  On 29/03/2024 at 18:06, Mr Pastry said:

Sorry mate, just saying.   And you only have to take the pedal off, not the whole pedal box.

But you clearly don't need my ideas, so I will delete my posts and leave you to it.

 

 

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Don’t overreact. I was joking.

I’ve come this far and it makes sense to remove the pedal box and find out what is going on with the quadrant.

It looks like it will be easier to remove the whole pedal box than just the quadrant.

[Peter C]

@Mr Pastry

You actually deleted your post. Wow.

[Peter C]

I've taken advice from those who suggested that I should remove the pedal box to investigate the condition of the quadrant.

@Joey spud You were right, removing the pedal box was easy.

@Mr Pastry You were wrong, the quadrant has all its teeth in place. Everything looks good here.

I have checked the operation of the quadrant, it rotates from end to end and locks in every position. 

@Joey spud This is the plate that acts as a stop for the clutch pedal. It is welded to the pedal box, it has no adjustment.

The clutch pedal is at its highest point when the plastic part of the adjusting mechanism comes into contact with the metal stop.

Assuming that the quadrant is working ok and the replacement clutch cable will not improve the situation, I could drill a couple of holes in the metal stop and secure a small metal plate, that would act as an extension to the stop, which would reduce the height of the pedal. Theoretically, the quadrant should be able to take up the slack in the clutch cable, assuming that it can adjust that far. If not, I could fit a cable adjuster at the gearbox end, which would reduce the length of the cable.

Both mods would be 100% reversible. 

I could also drill two holes through the side sections of the pedal box and extend a nut and bolt through them, which would pass through the quadrant, which has numerous openings that would allow the bolt to pass through. The bolt would pass through the quadrant with the quadrant adjusted to the maximum extended position. This would force the height of the clutch pedal down.

All very exciting. 

[Joey spud]

That's a good bit of progress and next logical step.

If there's room drilling,bolting and extending the pedal stop tag makes good sense and won't cost anything but time. Looking at images online the tag looks longer does it look like the tip could have broken off of it at some point in its life ? 

If it were me I would extend the tag to level the pedal with the brake one fit a new cable and go from there.

[Peter C]

  On 30/03/2024 at 12:03, Joey spud said:

does it look like the tip could have broken off of it at some point in its life ? 

 

 

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Nope, the metal stop looks mint and 100% original.

I think that I prefer the option of drilling through the pedal box and locking the quadrant with a nut and bolt.

[Joey spud]

I can't visualise exactly what you mean but later fords did have the ability to set the pedal height with a hex bolt.

[egg]

I'm trying to work out what part the welded on metal stop is in this diagram - can't quite work it out.

[Joey spud]

My money would be no 18.

[sierraman]

  On 29/03/2024 at 15:26, Peter C said:

Why do you say that?

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They just stick the name on any old shit. Used to be good but not now. 

[Peter C]

  On 30/03/2024 at 12:28, Joey spud said:

My money would be no 18.

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Agreed.

[Peter C]

  On 30/03/2024 at 12:19, egg said:

I'm trying to work out what part the welded on metal stop is in this diagram - can't quite work it out.

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Where did you get this diagram from?

[egg]

  On 30/03/2024 at 12:46, Peter C said:

Where did you get this diagram from?

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it's here Peter with FINIS codes. Interestingly 18 is the only part that doesn't have a number!

[egg]

Also, found this company that does complete pedal box replacement - and can't see that metal plate?

https://www.compbrake.com/product/ford-escort-sierra-cosworth-top-mounted-cable-pedal-box-kit-direct-repacement-2-pedal-ap-cylinder-std-kit/

[Marina door handles]

  On 30/03/2024 at 12:54, egg said:

it's here Peter with FINIS codes. Interestingly 18 is the only part that doesn't have a number!

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Looking at the diagram and having a reasonable idea of how these things work, I think part 18 should come with part 1 -  (bracket assembly thing finis  code 6713933 ) 

[egg]

  On 30/03/2024 at 13:06, Marina door handles said:

Looking at the diagram and having a reasonable idea of how these things work, I think part 18 should come with part 1 -  (bracket assembly thing finis  code 6713933 ) 

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yes, and I have no clue about engineering, but does feel a little like that plate is a solution they worked out to solve a problem they designed in!

[Peter C]

This arrived today. The letter confirms that the Sierra was built in March 1987. 

According to the logbook, it wasn’t registered until the 30th June 1987.

According to Wikipedia, the face lifted Sierra was launched in February 1987 and I presume that the Sapphire came out at the same time. If that’s the case, my Sierra must be an early model. Nice.

What is odd, for a brand new model, it took a long time, about three months, for the Sierra to be registered. Perhaps they didn’t sell like hot cakes?

The clutch cable also arrived today. It came in packaging that features a handy coat hanger.

First impressions, it looks ok.

 

More tomorrow.

[adw1977]

  On 30/03/2024 at 17:19, Peter C said:

According to Wikipedia, the face lifted Sierra was launched in February 1987 and I presume that the Sapphire came out at the same time.

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Yes, the Sapphire came out at the same time as the facelift. 

[egg]

  On 30/03/2024 at 17:19, Peter C said:

What is odd, for a brand new model, it took a long time, about three months, for the Sierra to be registered. Perhaps they didn’t sell like hot cakes?

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Same for my Mondeo, also a new model, built in Genk 23-24 March not registered until 2nd June.

[Marina door handles]

  On 30/03/2024 at 17:19, Peter C said:

The clutch cable also arrived today. It came in packaging that features a handy coat hanger.

 

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I always hang my clutch cables in my wardrobe with my shirts and trousers, I though everyone did this? 

[beko1987]

It's 6 months older than I am 😂

And they weren't massively common when I grew up enough to know what cars were either. A friends dad had a same colour blue estate that I never went in and that's all I remember! Was all 405s and modeos and xantias and escorts/orions (dad briefly dated someone who had a black non bubble shape orion) when I was growing up

[Peter C]

I started today by fitting the new clutch cable. It fitted perfectly, however it made no difference to the clutch pedal height or the biting point.

I opted to change the upper position of the clutch pedal by fitting a metal plate to the existing, non-adjustable, stop.

I carefully bent the stop a little so that the extended plate that will be fixed to its side will line up with the white part of the adjustment mechanism. I then drilled two small holes, the bottom one not too close to the edge of the metal.

I secured the metal plate with two nuts and bolts. The nuts and bolts do not interfere with any part of the clutch mechanism.

Here comes the science bit.

If I made the extended plate too short, the pedal height would not be lowered by the desired amount. 

If I made the extended plate too long, the pedal would be located too low, the adjustment mechanism may not have enough range to take up the clutch cable slack and, as lowering the height of the clutch pedal reduces the pedal travel, there could be the possibility that the clutch would not disengage fully with the pedal depressed, causing clutch drag. 

The new plate extends from the stop by approx 12mm. I did no measuring, it was just a guesstimate. If the extended plate was to be too long, I could remove and shorten it. If it was too short, I had more spare metal brackets to make up a new one.

With the pedal box in a vice, I could already see that the clutch pedal stopped below the stop height of the brake pedal. Looking good.

I refitted the pedal box and hooked up the clutch cable. Still looking good, the clutch pedal was situated a good three inches lower than before.

I slowly depressed the clutch pedal a few times, the quadrant clicked itself into place and it ended up here.

There is no slack in the cable and the quadrant still has a fair bit more range (I pressed on the upper part of the quadrant to find out). The latter is important as it means that the quadrant mechanism has not been forced to its maximum working position and there is room for further adjustment, if required.

I fired up the Pinto and checked the position of the clutch biting point. Perfect. The clutch bites nicely at just below half pedal travel and all gears engage smoothly with no crunching, which means the clutch is fully disengaged with the clutch pedal down. 

Win!

@sierraman was right, that the clutch biting point was normal, after all there was no method of adjusting the height of the clutch pedal and the quadrant was found to be working ok. I guess I improved on Ford's design. To celebrate, I refitted the bottom of the dashboard etc and cleaned the mud stained pedals.

Next issue.

Even with the Sierra parked in a dry garage, whenever I switched the engine on, condensation would blow out of the exhaust pipe.

When I posted on here a few months back regarding how to prevent mild steel exhaust systems from rotting out, I recall being advised that I should drill small holes in the lowest point of each silencer, which would allow moisture to escape (drip out) from the silencer.

I did just that, drilled a small hole in the bottom of each silencer.

The original wheel brace is missing and I wanted to pack a few essentials for my maiden voyage, just in case something went wrong.

I prepared this selection, which includes 5 litres of water, engine oil, brake fluid, tyre pump, 19mm socket on extension bar, basic tool kit, gaffer tape and gloves.

Apart from the large water bottle, all the bits fitted snuggly in my handy and very fashionable Borg & Beck plastic bag.

So, I've done all I had on my to-do list (and more!) and the Sierra is ready for its maiden voyage.

Whether I go anywhere tomorrow, the 1st April, depends entirely on the weather. At the moment it is looking a bit 50/50 according to my iPhone app and guaranteed rain all day if the BBC weather app is to be believed, followed by more rain each day next week. Great. 

I am very apprehensive about the first drive in the Sierra. The very first short drive from the main road to my house was too stressful, with the Sierra looking like a shed and barely making it home with the exhaust blowing out of both silencers, my mind was focused on a refund rather than on having fun. Ditto last weekend's drive to the end of my road and back, wasn't enough to get to know how the Sierra behaves.

Fact is, whenever I will get to drive it, I will end up feeling disappointed. Chances are, it is suffering from a fault that I am yet to discover, such as pulling brakes, vibrations via the drivetrain, clonks, rattles, etc. Even if it doesn't suffer any major issues, I doubt the carb fed Pinto will provide the levels of performance that I am accustomed to, bearing in mind I drive a brand new Nissan Qashqai daily and one of my toys is a perky E46. The unassisted steering will be too heavy, even compared with my W123, which has power steering but which is nowhere near as light as what I am used to. I suspect the Sierra will feel heavy to drive and difficult to stop, with no ABS.... Ok, ok, I'm not being fair, I can't expect a 37 year old base model Ford to perform like a modern car.

Let's hope the nostalgia kicks in and I forget about the rest.

 

 

[adw1977]

  On 31/03/2024 at 13:55, Peter C said:

Fact is, whenever I will get to drive it, I will end up feeling disappointed.

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If you expect it to drive like a modern car, yes.  If you expect it to drive like a 1980s car, hopefully not.

[N19]

  On 31/03/2024 at 13:55, Peter C said:

I started today by fitting the new clutch cable. It fitted perfectly, however it made no difference to the clutch pedal height or the biting point.

I opted to change the upper position of the clutch pedal by fitting a metal plate to the existing, non-adjustable, stop.

I carefully bent the stop a little so that the extended plate that will be fixed to its side will line up with the white part of the adjustment mechanism. I then drilled two small holes, the bottom one not too close to the edge of the metal.

I secured the metal plate with two nuts and bolts. The nuts and bolts do not interfere with any part of the clutch mechanism.

Here comes the science bit.

If I made the extended plate too short, the pedal height would not be lowered by the desired amount. 

If I made the extended plate too long, the pedal would be located too low, the adjustment mechanism may not have enough range to take up the clutch cable slack and, as lowering the height of the clutch pedal reduces the pedal travel, there could be the possibility that the clutch would not disengage fully with the pedal depressed, causing clutch drag. 

The new plate extends from the stop by approx 12mm. I did no measuring, it was just a guesstimate. If the extended plate was to be too long, I could remove and shorten it. If it was too short, I had more spare metal brackets to make up a new one.

With the pedal box in a vice, I could already see that the clutch pedal stopped below the stop height of the brake pedal. Looking good.

I refitted the pedal box and hooked up the clutch cable. Still looking good, the clutch pedal was situated a good three inches lower than before.

I slowly depressed the clutch pedal a few times, the quadrant clicked itself into place and it ended up here.

There is no slack in the cable and the quadrant still has a fair bit more range (I pressed on the upper part of the quadrant to find out). The latter is important as it means that the quadrant mechanism has not been forced to its maximum working position and there is room for further adjustment, if required.

I fired up the Pinto and checked the position of the clutch biting point. Perfect. The clutch bites nicely at just below half pedal travel and all gears engage smoothly with no crunching, which means the clutch is fully disengaged with the clutch pedal down. 

Win!

@sierraman was right, that the clutch biting point was normal, after all there was no method of adjusting the height of the clutch pedal and the quadrant was found to be working ok. I guess I improved on Ford's design. To celebrate, I refitted the bottom of the dashboard etc and cleaned the mud stained pedals.

Next issue.

Even with the Sierra parked in a dry garage, whenever I switched the engine on, condensation would blow out of the exhaust pipe.

When I posted on here a few months back regarding how to prevent mild steel exhaust systems from rotting out, I recall being advised that I should drill small holes in the lowest point of each silencer, which would allow moisture to escape (drip out) from the silencer.

I did just that, drilled a small hole in the bottom of each silencer.

The original wheel brace is missing and I wanted to pack a few essentials for my maiden voyage, just in case something went wrong.

I prepared this selection, which includes 5 litres of water, engine oil, brake fluid, tyre pump, 19mm socket on extension bar, basic tool kit, gaffer tape and gloves.

Apart from the large water bottle, all the bits fitted snuggly in my handy and very fashionable Borg & Beck plastic bag.

So, I've done all I had on my to-do list (and more!) and the Sierra is ready for its maiden voyage.

Whether I go anywhere tomorrow, the 1st April, depends entirely on the weather. At the moment it is looking a bit 50/50 according to my iPhone app and guaranteed rain all day if the BBC weather app is to be believed, followed by more rain each day next week. Great. 

I am very apprehensive about the first drive in the Sierra. The very first short drive from the main road to my house was too stressful, with the Sierra looking like a shed and barely making it home with the exhaust blowing out of both silencers, my mind was focused on a refund rather than on having fun. Ditto last weekend's drive to the end of my road and back, wasn't enough to get to know how the Sierra behaves.

Fact is, whenever I will get to drive it, I will end up feeling disappointed. Chances are, it is suffering from a fault that I am yet to discover, such as pulling brakes, vibrations via the drivetrain, clonks, rattles, etc. Even if it doesn't suffer any major issues, I doubt the carb fed Pinto will provide the levels of performance that I am accustomed to, bearing in mind I drive a brand new Nissan Qashqai daily and one of my toys is a perky E46. The unassisted steering will be too heavy, even compared with my W123, which has power steering but which is nowhere near as light as what I am used to. I suspect the Sierra will feel heavy to drive and difficult to stop, with no ABS.... Ok, ok, I'm not being fair, I can't expect a 37 year old base model Ford to perform like a modern car.

Let's hope the nostalgia kicks in and I forget about the rest.

 

 

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Reading through this thread I've been impressed at how much you've achieved in the time, recommissioning and restoring the car. Anything that's been laid up or seldom used for a time will come with 'shakedown' issues for which the packing of basic tools is definitely sensible. Get the engine nice and warm, blow off the cobwebs, and see what happens. It's natural for there to be something that will need attention. And if something comes up during the test drive  - it'll just form the next page of this thread!

[Peter C]

Tax purchased, however the government website still states the Sierra is SORN.

I have taken photos of the on-line application and have confirmation that the Sierra is taxed.

The forecast for this morning is ok but we had some rain overnight and the road looks wet. It's bright and sunny now so hopefully it will dry out soon. I plan to set off at around 10am for a 20 mile trip to Maidenhead, via the A404 and back over Cookham bridge. 

Very exciting!

 

[Peter C]

Confirmation email from the DVLA received and saved.

[Peter C]

The weather was looking ok, it was time to take the Sierra out for a test drive.

Even with the battery disconnected, the fuel gauge was showing that the tank was nearly full. Bearing in mind that I only put about 5 litres in when I first bought the Sierra, the gauge reading looked very wrong.

With the battery reconnected, the Pinto fired up first time and the exhaust spat out a mouthful of moisture. More on this later. 

Whilst walking out of the workshop, to move the E46 out of the way, I noticed that the brake lights were permanently on.

I quickly got changed, removed the bottom of the dashboard again to gain access to the brake pedal switch.

I removed the switch to check and clean it. It looked ok.

I refitted the switch and adjusted it to the correct position. Evidently, I must have disturbed the switch whilst fiddling with the pedal box yesterday.

All pre-flight checks done, it was time to set off. I got as far as my local Esso fuel station.

I managed to squeeze 5 litres of petrol into the tank before the filler neck was full. It looks like the gauge was showing an almost full tank because the tank was almost full. On the basis that the tank holds 60 litres and I've added about 10 litres since buying the Sierra, there must have been about 50 litres of fuel in the tank. At approx £1.50 per litre, that's a £75 gift. Thank you previous owner.

Before leaving the fuel station, I was approached by three people, who commented on how immaculate the Sierra is and who asked how old it is and how many miles it has done. How nice that the posh folk of Beaconsfield appreciate old Fords.

Approx 5 miles into my trip, I stopped off at a garden centre to check vital fluids and to give everything a once over. No problems to report. The pretty setting provided an opportunity for a couple of photos.

Back on the road, I headed for the A404. If you've ever watched Wheeler Dealers (the GB episodes), you will have seen Mike B towing or driving something along this famous* dual carriageway. 

Without any struggling, the Sierra got up to 60MPH.

I came off the A404 at the A4 junction and drove through Maidenhead, Cookham, Wooburn Green and towards home. I stopped off at Glory Park for a couple more photos.

I arrived back home almost exactly 20 miles later, as confirmed by the trip meter. This is good news, it means the trip meter and odometer are both reading just fine.

Ok, I've only driven the Sierra for 20 miles along local traffic free roads but my first thoughts are very positive.

Engine - I adjusted the idle speed at the garden centre, once the engine reached full operating temperature. Throughout the trip, the engine ran fine, quickly reached operating temperature and the needle didn't budge from the mid point. It pulled well from low revs, with no missing or spluttering. Nothing has leaked out, however there is still a whiff of paraffin / old engine oil / mucky residue from where I've been tinkering, which will need time to burn off. 

Gearbox - All gears go in and out just fine, synchros are strong. The gearbox is silent and I love the mechanical feel of the gear change.

Clutch - Biting point spot on. No dragging, no slipping, no juddering. Perfect.

Prop & Diff - Silent, no vibrations.

Steering - Noticeably heavy at parking speeds, otherwise works well and feels adequately light at speed. Steering wheel is on straight, no pulling, no issues.

Suspension - Smooth! No knocks, no bangs. Ride comfort is superb, on par with my W123. Handling is roly-poly, as expected. 

Brakes - Needed a bit of time to bed in, however once the pedal firmed up, they worked just fine. I tried a couple of emergency stops, no pulling, no issues.

Exhaust - Drill holes failed to allow any moisture to escape overnight and I could hear a significant blow from both silencers. Bollocks. Evidently, drilling holes in silencers is not a good idea. I will plug both holes with chemical metal and self-tapping screws this afternoon.

Radio - Played Greatest Hits Radio (105.8FM), including Popmaster at 10:30am. All six speakers work ok and the FM reception is better than expected, bearing in mind I live and drove the Sierra through The Chilterns.

Summary - I love it!

@N19 I am sure that I will find something to write about soon. There are a few more bodywork related issues that I want to attend to and I expect the forthcoming MoT test will reveal something wrong with the old Ford. 

 

[tooSavvy]

GR9 👍

'its a pile of fraud $hite' = LOVE IT (... It's not a tattoo = you can change your mind 🤣🤣)

Tinkering brings you closer (... says SWMBO 😁)

🚙💨