1987 Ford Sierra Sapphire 1.8L - Completed it mate - see page 46

[Peter C]

With the bottom part of the dashboard removed and out of the way, I got a better look at the clutch medal assembly.

This is the position that the quadrant was in when I first looked at it.

This is what happens when I pushed the clutch pedal down to the floor.

This is what it looks like when I push on the quadrant. As it rotates past a certain point, something clicks inside it.

Once released, it looks like this.

And with the clutch pedal depressed and released a few times, it looks like this, which is how it looked when I first started.

To replace the clutch cable, I assume that I need to push on the quadrant, pull the cable forwards and upwards to release it, then pull it out through the bulkhead. Should be easy.

As for how to replace the quadrant, I have absolutely no idea. Looks painful.

The biting point is approx 2-3 inches from the top position of the pedal. Not dreadfully high but I don't like it. 

 

 

[sierraman]

2 minutes ago, Peter C said:

With the bottom part of the dashboard removed and out of the way, I got a better look at the clutch medal assembly.

This is the position that the quadrant was in when I first looked at it.

This is what happens when I pushed the clutch pedal down to the floor.

This is what it looks like when I push on the quadrant. As it rotates past a certain point, something clicks inside it.

Once released, it looks like this.

And with the clutch pedal depressed and released a few times, it looks like this, which is how it looked when I first started.

To replace the clutch cable, I assume that I need to push on the quadrant, pull the cable forwards and upwards to release it, then pull it out through the bulkhead. Should be easy.

As for how to replace the quadrant, I have absolutely no idea. Looks painful.

The biting point is approx 2-3 inches from the top position of the pedal. Not dreadfully high but I don't like it. 

 

 

Sounds ok to be to be honest but that’s how they are. You get used to it. 

[Scruffy Bodger]

Have you tried pulling the pedal up then pushing the pedal down to the bottom then sliding your foot off it and letting it ping back up again?  That's what I have done in the past on my Cortina and Sierra based kit car. 

The brake and clutch should be level, if not somethings wrong.

[Joey spud]

If you look from under/behind the pedal and up you should see the metal tag that the quadrant rests against to set the correct pedal height.

Like I say it's been over twenty years since I last did one but I'm sure I'm not going mad.

[Peter C]

14 minutes ago, Scruffy Bodger said:

Have you tried pulling the pedal up then pushing the pedal down to the bottom then sliding your foot off it and letting it ping back up again?  That's what I have done in the past on my Cortina and Sierra based kit car. 

The brake and clutch should be level, if not somethings wrong.

I haven't tried that and I agree that something isn't right.

[Peter C]

8 minutes ago, Joey spud said:

If you look from under/behind the pedal and up you should see the metal tag that the quadrant rests against to set the correct pedal height.

Bloody hell, I just about managed to inspect the front part of the pedal. 

I will have another look this evening.

[Scruffy Bodger]

Well, you've already been part way there removing the drivers seat...

[Peter C]

5 minutes ago, Scruffy Bodger said:

Well, you've already been part way there removing the drivers seat...

Sadly not.

I've only removed one fixing bolt yesterday, which I put back in place this afternoon.

[Dobloseven]

Didn't Fords of that era have some sort of patent self adjusting clutch mechanism? ISTR the first to use it was the Mk 3 Escort.

[Peter C]

30 minutes ago, Dobloseven said:

Didn't Fords of that era have some sort of patent self adjusting clutch mechanism? ISTR the first to use it was the Mk 3 Escort.

Yes, the yellow quadrant thingy that we've been discussing this afternoon.

[Peter C]

2 hours ago, Joey spud said:

If you look from under/behind the pedal and up you should see the metal tag that the quadrant rests against to set the correct pedal height.

Like I say it's been over twenty years since I last did one but I'm sure I'm not going mad.

I've had another look.

The point where the clutch pedal and the quadrant stop is dictated by a metal plate, which forms part of the pedal box assembly. The metal plate cannot be adjusted, neither is there any way of adjusting the location of the quadrant.

There is a fair bit of slack in the clutch pedal travel. Pressing down on the clutch to the point where the slack is eliminated, the clutch pedal lines up with the brake pedal.

I've ordered a replacement clutch cable. Let's see what difference it makes.

To remove the clutch cable, I assume that I have to remove it from the gearbox end first, then unhook the end of the cable from the quadrant. Installation of the new cable will be the reverse. @lisbon_road @sierraman Am I right please? 

 

 

[Peter C]

2 hours ago, Scruffy Bodger said:

Have you tried pulling the pedal up then pushing the pedal down to the bottom then sliding your foot off it and letting it ping back up again? 

Have now, made no difference. 

[Joey spud]

Yes that's the tab I remember that sets the pedal height. Does it look like a bit has snapped off it's end ?

When the tab is correct (and the pedal is in the correct place) you can put your hand under the pedal and lift it up against this tab which releases the pawl from the quadrants teeth allowing it to be rotated and the cable unhooked from it.

Can you bend this tab towards the pawl to lower the pedal ?

I'm not going mad this tab is mentioned on this post too.

[Peter C]

@Joey spud

The metal tab is there but it’s solid metal that can’t be adjusted. There’s nothing missing and what’s there looks ok to me. 

[Peter C]

9 hours ago, Mr Pastry said:

 

Or, possibly, it has just reached the end of its adjustment, which would suggest the clutch is on the way out.

 

This could well be the case.

[Peter C]

I've spent a bit of time reading up about this common problem. 

The two most common complaints about the performance of the quadrant relates to a high clutch pedal position and the pedal dropping to the floor when depressed. I recall that one of my previous Sierras suffered from the latter. Apparently, the problem is caused by stripped teeth on the quadrant and the only solution involves installation of a new one.

Some people have replaced the quadrant, only for it to cause the same symptoms soon after. 

Option one involves spurring the quadrant into action. The clutch pedal should be depressed, at the gearbox end the clutch arm should be locked in place, then, by depressing the pedal by hand, the quadrant would be persuaded to click and lock in a different position, further up from where it was locked before, then release the clutch arm and, hey presto, the clutch pedal will be located in a lower position. Nice if it works!

Another option involves fitting a cable lock nut over the end of the cable and adjust the length of the cable to alter the clutch pedal position manually.

Another alterative involves locking the clutch arm, setting up the level of the clutch pedal to suit and drilling a hole through the quadrant and putting a nut and bolt through the hole, to lock the quadrant in the desired position. Sounds like a good plan but I doubt that it would be possible to drill the hole in the quadrant with the pedal box in situ and taking the pedal box out is not something I fancy doing.

Luckily, I have a four day (Easter) weekend coming up and as the weather is supposed to be shit, my tinkering will not be interrupted by road trip.

 

[sierraman]

13 hours ago, Peter C said:

I've had another look.

The point where the clutch pedal and the quadrant stop is dictated by a metal plate, which forms part of the pedal box assembly. The metal plate cannot be adjusted, neither is there any way of adjusting the location of the quadrant.

There is a fair bit of slack in the clutch pedal travel. Pressing down on the clutch to the point where the slack is eliminated, the clutch pedal lines up with the brake pedal.

I've ordered a replacement clutch cable. Let's see what difference it makes.

To remove the clutch cable, I assume that I have to remove it from the gearbox end first, then unhook the end of the cable from the quadrant. Installation of the new cable will be the reverse. @lisbon_road @sierraman Am I right please? 

 

 

About 18 years since I did one, I can’t offhand remember. 

[Peter C]

50 minutes ago, sierraman said:

About 18 years since I did one, I can’t offhand remember. 

No worries, as part of my research I have found out that the cable needs to be removed at the gearbox end first.

[Joey spud]

On the late Escorts and Fiesta there was a hex headed bolt on the pedal assy that was used to set the pedal height so I guess the tab design wasn't as durable as Ford had hoped.

I honestly can't remember what I used to do to level up the pedals without actually being upside down in the foot well again to jog my memory.

You could strip the ratchet and pedal apart then refit the pedal with just the pawl fitted to better see what has happened to the pedal stop tag and how to fix it.

Maybe once you have it in pieces in front of you it should become clear what's causing the problem.

Back in day there was a lot of cheap non ford ratchet repair kits washing around (Mafco brand in a plastic bag were popular) that did the job but the Ford kit in the blue/white box always fitted better and performed reliably unless your cable was seized or clutch was worn/heavy then the extra effort to push the pedal down would make them all randomly click or slip. 

[egg]

Tell me if this is laughable, but could it be on the original clutch due to low miles? 

[Joey spud]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Tell me if this is laughable, but could it be on the original clutch due to low miles? 

That makes perfect sense actually.

The clutch operating arm on a type9 gearbox pivots on its end so as the clutch wears (cover diaphragm spring comes out again)the arm will move away from the engine lengthening the inner cable and so pulling the pedal quadrant anticlockwise.

Maybe if there's no free play left for the quadrant to take up the pedal has now risen up too far ?

Needs a nice long bank holiday weekend to investigate or say bollocks and live with it as it is.

[Peter C]

Guys, thank you for your advice, all noted and understood.

As I see it, the problem could be:

1. The clutch is worn and therefore the quadrant cannot adjust the biting point any further than it has done. Whilst the mileage is only 31k (probably), if the Sierra has been driven around town for most of its life, by someone who is deaf and has no sympathy for mechanical things, then the clutch could well be worn.

2. The quadrant is not functioning as intended. From what I could see, the quadrant still has all its teeth but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's ok.

3. The clutch cable is 37 years old and has stretched or a previous owner has fitted the wrong clutch cable. Apparently, there is more than one type of clutch cable for a manual 'box Sierra.

My options:

I can buy a complete LUK clutch kit for about £75, inc p&p but I have no facilities to replace the clutch in my workshop, specifically it's the removal of the gearbox that would cause issues. I have a friendly mechanic who would fit the clutch for me, I reckon for about £150, however this would involve me having to take a day off work, driving into London and paying the Khan charge. If necessary, I will have the clutch replaced but at the moment I am proposing to explore other options.

I really don't want to remove the pedal box and start fiddling with the quadrant. From what I've read about the process, it's a bitch of a job.

I don't like the idea of drilling through the quadrant to lock it in place, as this could cause problems, resulting in replacement of the quadrant.

Today, I drove popped into Halfords and bought these:

They were £1.60 each. 

I now have four days off, three of which, if necessary, I can spend in the workshop. The weather forecast is awful so I am not expecting to take the Sierra out for a drive. The replacement clutch cable may arrive on Saturday, if I am really lucky but I suspect it won't be with me until next week.

The plan is to raise the front of the Sierra to gain access to the clutch arm, remove the existing clutch cable, fit the cable adjusters, one at each end of the cable and see what difference they make. Chances are, by tightening the cable, the clutch pedal will be brought down in line with the brake pedal, possibly a little lower. I would be pleased with this, as the clutch biting point is currently approx 2-3 inches down from the release point, at which point the clutch bites hard. 

Once it arrives, I will replace the clutch cable with the new one, without fitting the adjusters first and see how the clutch feels. If the biting point is too high, I will re-fit the adjusters and hope for the best. 

The installation of the cable adjusters is a well documented solution, so I am hopeful that I can fix this issue. The adjusters that I bought today are a bit shit, so if they work ok, I will buy some better quality ones and fit them for a permanent repair.

All agreed?

 

[egg]

Like your pro-active approach. I don't have a spare quadrant for my Mondeo - saw an OEM one for £5.99 just now and bought it, as I can see this being an issue for me down the line - so your investigations have helped me too...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334417409614

[Joey spud]

Removing the pedal on a Sierra isn't that hard to do actually there's a bit more room compared to a Escort or Fiesta.

It certainly can't hurt to replace the cable to see if it improves things.

 

[Peter C]

I've bought the replacement (Borg & Beck) clutch cable via eBay. The item was marked as dispatched yesterday afternoon so it may well arrive tomorrow, in time for me to fit it on Sunday / Monday.

Things didn't go according to plan today.

I wedged a piece of roofing batten between the clutch pedal and the seat (with plenty of padding on the seat end).

Then, I wedged another piece of wood between the clutch arm and bellhousing. With the clutch pedal released, unhooking the end of the clutch cable was easy.

With the clutch cable slack, I pressed on the clutch pedal and the quadrant clicked several times and reset itself to this position. This makes me think that the quadrant is working ok.

Unhooking the end of the clutch cable from the quadrant was easy.

But removing the plastic fitting that forms part of the clutch cable from the metal sleeve that passes through the bulkhead caused a problem. The plastic bit snapped, leaving a seized piece inside the sleeve. Bugger. No amount of poking with a screw driver made any difference. The back of the sleeve is inaccessible from inside the car.

I had no choice, I had to cut the cable. My wife came to the rescue. She was keeping the cable still whilst I cut the end of the metal cable with an angle grinder.

With the cable removed, I drilled the remaining piece of plastic from the sleeve.

I had it out within 2 minutes.

The only marking on the old clutch cable is a number "37". Not sure what it means. 

With the old clutch cable destroyed, I couldn't do anything else today. Also, the gap in the side of the cable adjustor bolt that I bought yesterday is too narrow for the clutch cable to pass through. I may have to source a bigger and more robust one.

More updates once I get my hands on the new clutch cable.

[sierraman]

Borg and Beck… good luck with that! 

[Peter C]

17 minutes ago, sierraman said:

Borg and Beck… good luck with that! 

Why do you say that?

[robt100]

Clutch replacement might be easier than you think, depends on the output shaft on the gearbox, whether it is a rubber doughnut or one of those sleeved joints where the prop can just be pulled out. If its the latter, I believe there is enough play to just loosen the mounts, pull the gearbox back and swap out the clutches with the box in place. I know thats how the garage did one on my Capri, took them all of 20mins 😅

[SiC]

Keep the old cable as you may need it in the future to make up a replacement or get someone else to make a replacement. 

[Peter C]

1 hour ago, Mr Pastry said:

That's a bit of progress anyway.   Isn't it significant that the quadrant springs into its fully open position when the tension of the cable is released, yet it doesn't self-adjust normally?  I think there are possibly some worn teeth on the quadrant which are causing it to jam or slip when the cable is under tension.

 

 

Fucking peer pressure!

I will have a go at removing the pedal box tomorrow and check out what state the quadrant is in.