1963 Mercedes Benz 190DC Fintail. Now in winter storage.

[Dyslexic Viking]

18 minutes ago, Remspoor said:

But plastic means lightweight means faster or more economical. 😉

Seriously, maybe during winter you can see if you can change the impellers  without going crazy because it is far too complicated.

Yes, I'll see if I do things better in the winter when I have more time. At least I have a new water pump now as posted above which will hopefully work for a while until I can make something better.

[Dyslexic Viking]

Checked for leaks and topped up coolant, then took it for a 15 km test drive and everything works as it should. So so far the water pump replacement seemed to be successful.

[Remspoor]

3 hours ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

Yes, I'll see if I do things better in the winter when I have more time. At least I have a new water pump now as posted above which will hopefully work for a while until I can make something better.

Plastics in engines do not have the best reputation for lasting long. Glad to see it fitted and working.

[Dyslexic Viking]

5 minutes ago, Remspoor said:

Plastics in engines do not have the best reputation for lasting long. Glad to see it fitted and working.

Yes, that's the impression I have as well. So this one will get a better water pump with a metal impeller. The radiator is not in good shape either, so if I can get it through the season, this is a nice winter project to thoroughly go through the cooling system and make it reliable an good for decades to come.

[Dyslexic Viking]

I should probably explain if it hasn't been mentioned in previous posts. The reason why I installed a water pump that will be replaced again is that this water pump from Febi Bilstein with plastic impeller is the easiest to find for these. My plan is to look at switching to a water pump for a W123, this should possibly fit, but I have to change the fan. The reason for that change is that the newer water pumps are much easier to find and there is a larger selection. And that conversion will probably take some time while I try and fail with various parts to make it work. And I would prefer to do this in the winter so this is not out of use for a long time now so this water pump just needs to work until October.

[rusty_vw_man]

3 minutes ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

I should probably explain if it hasn't been mentioned in previous posts. The reason why I installed a water pump that will be replaced again is that this water pump from Febi Bilstein with plastic impeller is the easiest to find for these. My plan is to look at switching to a water pump for a W123, this should possibly fit, but I have to change the fan. The reason for that change is that the newer water pumps are much easier to find and there is a larger selection. And that conversion will probably take some time while I try and fail with various parts to make it work. And I would prefer to do this in the winter so this is not out of use for a long time now so this water pump just needs to work until October.

To be fair, I doubt you’re going to be doing mega mingle in it, so would expect the plastic water pump to do okay for a while yet!

The pictures are always great, beautiful car in scenery that (for me at least!) looks like summer holidays!! 

[Dyslexic Viking]

I'm looking at parts and thinking a bit now. 

A new radiator for my W110 is not the easiest thing to find. But for the successor W115 there is available new aluminum radiator if this could have fit in my W110 then I could also have used the W115 fan shroud and fan this together with newer water pump would have really upgraded the cooling system on this.

Purists will probably not like this but is it wrong of me to do this if this is possible? I'm a bit divided but have time to think about it.

[auntiemaryscanary]

5 minutes ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

I'm looking at parts and thinking a bit now. 

A new radiator for my W110 is not the easiest thing to find. But for the successor W115 there is available new aluminum radiator if this could have fit in my W110 then I could also have used the W115 fan shroud and fan this together with newer water pump would have really upgraded the cooling system on this.

Purists will probably not like this but is it wrong of me to do this if this is possible? I'm a bit divided but have time to think about it.

If you are happy with it then that's what matters, it's your car. How many other upgrades/replacements has it had over the years? Loads! 

It's a lovely car and you seem to have no intention of getting rid of it. If the cooling upgrade works and it's what you want then stuff the purists.

[rusty_vw_man]

I thinks there’s two types of old car enthusiasts - ones that like to keep it 100% original and those that want them to be useable and survive for as long as possible. 

My view is that the second is the more pragmatic. You could spend hours trying to find some long lost OEM parts at great cost, but why bother if a newer, cheaper more plentiful arrangement would do the job (better). As long as it’s fitted properly, not just lashed in with a few zip ties, most people wouldn’t even notice, but you’d be able to relax a bit more and drive it more knowing the cooling system was robust. 

Are you looking to keep a 100% accurate museum piece , or an old car that looks cool and is fun to drive around in? 

[Dyslexic Viking]

6 minutes ago, rusty_vw_man said:

Are you looking to keep a 100% accurate museum piece , or an old car that looks cool and is fun to drive around in? 

The last. 

If this were to become a 100 percent accurate museum piece, it would have needed total restoration and that would have been extensive and expensive. So I see this more as a cool old car that can be used and driven and where the focus is on making it better and as reliable as possible. 

[Dyslexic Viking]

If anyone wants to see pictures of a beautiful untouched one of these, below is the link to one that is for sale in Norway now. It is quite similar to mine but is in much better condition, so if I wanted a really nice and original one, it would be cheaper to buy this one and have both.

https://www.finn.no/car/used/ad.html?finnkode=338465284

[sutty2006]

Here in the UK, we can get old radiators recored. Which means replacing the core unit in the middle, and keeping the tanks at either end original. I’ve had a few radiators restored by a reputable company near me and they are still going strong ten years later . 

[EyesWeldedShut]

7 hours ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

it would be cheaper to buy this one and have both.

That sums up the ethos of AutoShite - why have one when you can have two  ?

In complicated situations (wife) I employ the AS Handbook excuses numbers 21(a) and 27(b):"Another car?"
"Yes, it's a donor car for that black one out back" (21(a))
"Hmm, the Fiat*?"
"Yes, of course"
"But this one is a Mercedes Benz 190DC Fintail*?"
"[sigh], Yes dear but they have the same engine" (27(b))

Worked so far but, after 22 years, wearing a bit thin ........

*substitute marque/model as appropriate

[Dyslexic Viking]

2 hours ago, sutty2006 said:

Here in the UK, we can get old radiators recored. Which means replacing the core unit in the middle, and keeping the tanks at either end original. I’ve had a few radiators restored by a reputable company near me and they are still going strong ten years later . 

I have thought about it but the problem here is finding someone who does this. And the tanks on my radiator has several solder repairs so they are probably not good either, so not sure if any bits of this radiator can be saved.

It may be possible to special order a new radiator from a Mercedes specialist, but it will be extremely expensive. Alternatively, I can see if I can find a better used radiator so I'll see what I do.

[Dyslexic Viking]

So have driven this a bit today and new water pump and everything works but, this water pump bothers me yes it does so after a lot of research in Mercedes cooling systems and looking for parts I am pretty sure that the newer type of water pump for W115 and W123 will fit this one.

So I have ordered a W115 water pump pulley from Arizona, a W115 fan from Estonia and a good water pump with a metal impeller and a W123 fan from autodoc. I think these are the parts needed to convert this to the newer water pump and when I get all of this I can compare that water pump to my old one.

So in about a month I will hopefully change the water pump again.

This is totally normal isn't it?

[lisbon_road]

13 minutes ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

This is totally normal isn't it?

Totally normal. We call it 'continuous improvement '

[Popsicle]

15 minutes ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

This is totally normal isn't it?

So you've the original waterpump (1), the new plastic one (2), incoming from Arizona (3), incoming from Estonia (4), incoming from Autodoc (5) - seems totally normal and reasonable to me 🤣.

[Dyslexic Viking]

I'm glad I'm single because having to explain and justify some of what I do at times wouldn't be easy.

[Dyslexic Viking]

Almost 2 weeks since the last post and there is nothing to write about. It is now over 5 weeks since it came out of winter storage and 657 km have been covered so far.

[Dyslexic Viking]

Forgot yesterday, I got the newer water pump and after checking it looks identical to the old one apart from the number of bolt holes for the cooling fan which I already knew about. So when the rest of the parts arrive, this will get installed on the engine. This water pump really seems like good quality and is really heavy so should hopefully last for decades and when it needs to be replaced in the future this is a much easier water pump to find than the car's original one.

 

And I read here on the forum, I don't remember from whom, that older tires had stiffer sidewalls and one should have slightly higher tire pressure in newer tires. I have no idea about the correct tire pressure on this one as it has bigger wheels than original so I have had 30 psi in the tires on this as dad always said that was what the cars had before, I have now increased this to 36 psi in the front and 34 psi at the rear and the tires look better and the gravel lies nicely on the tire so this is a much better tire pressure as this is a heavy car.

The reason I mention this is that this has had a dramatic effect on fuel consumption and I am not making this up. Filled up with diesel this morning and this is the result, 29.21 liters used on 501 km. I will report back at the next filling what the numbers are then as I struggle to believe this. The consumption before this was normally around 6.5 liters per 100km, so this may be possible, we will see what the next filling shows.

[jim89]

1 hour ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

Forgot yesterday, I got the newer water pump and after checking it looks identical to the old one apart from the number of bolt holes for the cooling fan which I already knew about. So when the rest of the parts arrive, this will get installed on the engine. This water pump really seems like good quality and is really heavy so should hopefully last for decades and when it needs to be replaced in the future this is a much easier water pump to find than the car's original one.

 

And I read here on the forum, I don't remember from whom, that older tires had stiffer sidewalls and one should have slightly higher tire pressure in newer tires. I have no idea about the correct tire pressure on this one as it has bigger wheels than original so I have had 30 psi in the tires on this as dad always said that was what the cars had before, I have now increased this to 36 psi in the front and 34 psi at the rear and the tires look better and the gravel lies nicely on the tire so this is a much better tire pressure as this is a heavy car.

The reason I mention this is that this has had a dramatic effect on fuel consumption and I am not making this up. Filled up with diesel this morning and this is the result, 29.21 liters used on 501 km. I will report back at the next filling what the numbers are then as I struggle to believe this. The consumption before this was normally around 6.5 liters per 100km, so this may be possible, we will see what the next filling shows.

If I'm reading that right I can easily believe it 👍🏻 just less "squish" & therefore less rolling resistance from increasing the pressures I guess? &/or increasing the pressures effectively made the tyres "taller" & more rounder, so a revolution of them takes you a weeny bit further than before...

[Dyslexic Viking]

Yes, more air pressure in the tires gives less rolling resistance, which results in lower consumption and making the tire more round probably helps too. But what I cannot understand is how this is possible on a 61 year old barge to achieve such fuel consumption.

I don't know what it is but I have always managed to get cars to use little fuel but this surprises me. But it's a nice surprise.

[adw1977]

1 hour ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

The reason I mention this is that this has had a dramatic effect on fuel consumption and I am not making this up. Filled up with diesel this morning and this is the result, 29.21 liters used on 501 km. I will report back at the next filling what the numbers are then as I struggle to believe this. The consumption before this was normally around 6.5 liters per 100km, so this may be possible, we will see what the next filling shows.

So about a 10% improvement?  That sounds plausible. 

[jim89]

9 minutes ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

Yes, more air pressure in the tires gives less rolling resistance, which results in lower consumption and making the tire more round probably helps too. But what I cannot understand is how this is possible on a 61 year old barge to achieve such fuel consumption.

I don't know what it is but I have always managed to get cars to use little fuel but this surprises me. But it's a nice surprise.

To quote Scotty from Star Trek.. "ye cannae change the laws of physics" 🙂

And yes in this case it's a win win situation - looks better & goes better (economically)

How is the ride & steering etc with the increased tyre pressures?

[Dyslexic Viking]

5 minutes ago, jim89 said:

How is the ride & steering etc with the increased tyre pressures?

A bit difficult to say as I am not good at noticing such changes, but I think it has improved and the steering has become lighter.

[Popsicle]

6 hours ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

And I read here on the forum, I don't remember from whom, that older tires had stiffer sidewalls and one should have slightly higher tire pressure in newer tires. I have no idea about the correct tire pressure on this one as it has bigger wheels than original so I have had 30 psi in the tires on this as dad always said that was what the cars had before, I have now increased this to 36 psi in the front and 34 psi at the rear and the tires look better and the gravel lies nicely on the tire so this is a much better tire pressure as this is a heavy car.

The reason I mention this is that this has had a dramatic effect on fuel consumption and I am not making this up. Filled up with diesel this morning and this is the result, 29.21 liters used on 501 km. I will report back at the next filling what the numbers are then as I struggle to believe this. The consumption before this was normally around 6.5 liters per 100km, so this may be possible, we will see what the next filling shows.

As others have said the better mpg seems right to me. I've always run my vans a few psi above the fully laden recommended figure, it makes a surprising difference in fuel costs. It does make for a slightly harder ride, but with my 65 profile sidewalls its hardly noticeable.

You could pump the rear tyres up to 40+ psi for some easy tail out action on the local roundabouts 😀.

[captain_70s]

I'm guessing the majority of your driving is low speed cruising? So not too implausible to get high 40s mpg.

[Dyslexic Viking]

10 minutes ago, captain_70s said:

I'm guessing the majority of your driving is low speed cruising? So not too implausible to get high 40s mpg.

Yes, it is only quiet driving in the countryside at a maximum of 80 km/h it mostly does.

[rusty_vw_man]

That’s some water pump - looks like the propeller off a small cruise liner. 

10% fuel economy sounds about right, I notice it in the other direction - consumption goes up because I haven’t checked them for a while!! 

[Dyslexic Viking]

The first problem of the year has come, the differential has developed an oil leak.

 

Not sure if I can do this myself as crawling around on the floor under a car is not good for my body and I don't have a car lift.