EmperorPigeon's Enfield 8000 restoration project

[EmperorPigeon]

Back in late March and early April thanks to a tip off from @Mrs6C, I negotiated a price for the pictured Enfield 8000 four seater (yes one of the two that exist ). I offered £800, seller countered with £850 and the man maths said "yes!" and it was still a discount over the £1k asking price.

Since then it has been a bit of a slog getting updates. The seller would find himself busy with life and it did feel that the car and our deal was on the back burner. The chassis, as of April, was "solid" with just the front wishbone driver side suspension arm needing replacing which was finally completed a few days ago, thanks to having a real deadline with myself having arranged the courier (the seller had promised to sort out collection and delivery, but it was clear it wasn't happening). Still, in fairness, the work was completed at no extra cost to myself, and I look forward to taking delivery of the car Tuesday morning. When it arrives I'll be back here with a proper assessment and many a photo and/or video. I have also had a great deal of support and encouragement from @Will on Syrosbehind the scenes in PMs.

I did make it clear when negotiating that my budget was not high, it would be my first car, everything was going to be done cheaply and on my driveway. That budget was £2000 and that is a budget that no longer exists at that amount, so expect to see some things of worth being placed in the appropriate thread from my good self to support the habit go into the battlechest. I don't expect a huge amount of work will be able to be done given the time of year, but I will keep you all apprised.

Weather permitting come Tuesday morning, once the car has arrived I will give the car a clean inside and out as I like to have a clean and tidy working area. Otherwise it'll be moving the soft furnishings and vulnerable interior components inside, along with the spares (I have no idea what the spares will be, these will be documented in a later post). I already have a good idea on how I'm going to go about the restoration, however I'm holding off talking about most of that until I see the car for myself. One thing is the paint. I don't have the money for a professional respray, so I'm going the Not2grand DIY route. I've had a lot of experience with spray paints and with proper prep work, it'll look decent and far better than she does now. Verona BMW red is too expensive (it would be though wouldn't it?) so I'm going with Signal Red because Flame Red is too dark/doesn't feel right. Tubular steel and such is dirt cheap and I have a nearby supplier just 8 miles away and they do delivery - I can even get aluminium and tin from them which will be necessary.

Most people will parrot "traction batteries!" but I'm not paying £1500. I'll take some measurements and go down the route of 8 12v 130-150ah batteries that will cost about £500. As an aside, the brochures/advertisements for the E8000 list the main battery pack as being 8 12v batteries, which I'll configure to be a 48v 260-300ah pack depending on the batteries I get and the space available.  Furthermore, each E8000 was different and various battery configurations were experimented with during production and later by the Electricity Council. I'll be making a cardboard mock-up first and buying replacement cabling and lugs so as to have everything properly measured and relatively straightforward. The onboard charger will be ignored in favour of a Mean Well 48v PSU going into a solar charge controller. That or a Meanwell charger, price permitting. It wouldn't be fast but then I wouldn't be driving every day or going beyond a 20-25 mile round trip. Taking into account the Peukhert effect with what the motor would demand at full power (150amps, or 7.2kw/6kw to the drive wheels at roughly 83.25% efficiency), such a battery pack (12.48kw to 14.4kw depending on what fits the physical space and that I can afford) it would probably be reduced to 9-12kw depending on the pack size. Noting that if I went with a 150ah battery pack it would be reduced to 75ah capacity at full draw, but the bigger the battery pack the less of an impact. I just need not to drive around like a lunatic.

Also until its done, this is all theory and speculation and I look forward to finding out the real statistics for my particular setup.

Lastly,  it should be clear as well  is that this isn't going to be the next Flux Capacitor, very little if any restomodding will occur (although I have a couple of subtle ideas), and I will be cutting corners where I can to get the car functional, relatively reasonable to look at, and roadworthy. As an aside to those that will be annoyed by my approach: the car had been up for sale back in late 2019 when the previous seller bought it, then up for sale since January 2021 until March when the advert was taken down and it was after that when I started my enquiries, so many a chance to make a deal before I did. That said, I know from the various threads I've been lurking in here that most of you are reasonable and understanding.

So here's to an enjoyable-as-possible restoration project!  

[anonymous user]

Look forward to following your progress 

[Dick Cheeseburger]

Wow, another one! Great to see and kudos for biting the bullet with it. 

Have you seen this photo of it in happier times? 

 

[LightBulbFun]

Oooh! very much looking forward to seeing more on this! 

I do like an Enfield 8000  (and any sort Shite electric vehicle in general to be fair!)

[EmperorPigeon]

3 hours ago, Dick Longbridge said:

Wow, another one! Great to see and kudos for biting the bullet with it. 

Have you seen this photo of it in happier times? 

 

Yup and here's another as well that @Will on Syrossent me a while back  

[EmperorPigeon]

3 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

Oooh! very much looking forward to seeing more on this! 

I do like an Enfield 8000  (and any sort Shite electric vehicle in general to be fair!)

Well it was in your Invacar thread that helped start all this...

[Will on Syros]

I'm so glad you bought this and really looking forward to seeing it back on the road.  I'm sure you'll make a good job of it.  

[EmperorPigeon]

Two bin liners full of dirt and detritus from the wind and rain, as well as its necessary to go over the drive again with the non-toxic weedkiller stuff I got from QVC a while back. Either way, she'll be here by about 11am and there is, in effect, my workspace for the next few months. The other side where there is still moss is technically that of my upstairs neighbour, and as a courtesy and to complete the task I will go over that as well.  At least it isn't all of a sudden "OMG! SLIPPY!" like it was last night when I almost fell on my rear whilst holding my next door neighbour's cat to take him home. That would not have ended well for me. At all. *ahem*

Anyway, the next post will be of the car herself.

[EmperorPigeon]

The car is here, arrived at 10:55 or so. Hopefully my mobile recorded the car being moved on to my drive...I'll find out later. I'm having a much needed orange juice break after hefting in all the interior items (including the motor, which the courier helped me with getting on to the drive...and after he went I rotated the motor full boost vertical and edged it inside bit by bit. It's now in horizontal flight in the lobby.  Most of the window glass is present, sans one half of the driver side window and I've wrapped the loose windows in much bubblewrap and placed out of harms way.  I even managed to get the keys out of the ignition and open the passenger door.

Once I've made the windscreen cover (because I cannot be any more paranoid about that windscreen being damaged than I am now), I'll go and borrow the tarpaulins that my neighbour kindly offered.

Photos and video(s) to follow...

[somewhatfoolish]

That's crying out for a skoosh with a jet washer.

[LightBulbFun]

2 hours ago, EmperorPigeon said:

The car is here, arrived at 10:55 or so. Hopefully my mobile recorded the car being moved on to my drive...I'll find out later. I'm having a much needed orange juice break after hefting in all the interior items (including the motor, which the courier helped me with getting on to the drive...and after he went I rotated the motor full boost vertical and edged it inside bit by bit. It's now in horizontal flight in the lobby.  Most of the window glass is present, sans one half of the driver side window and I've wrapped the loose windows in much bubblewrap and placed out of harms way.  I even managed to get the keys out of the ignition and open the passenger door.

Once I've made the windscreen cover (because I cannot be any more paranoid about that windscreen being damaged than I am now), I'll go and borrow the tarpaulins that my neighbour kindly offered.

Photos and video(s) to follow...

glad to hear the car has arrived! I look forward to seeing some more pics  

its quite interesting to see they did a couple 4 seater ones, I never knew that! it almost looks like a baby estate car  

very cool to see one saved and being given a sympathetic recommissioning rather then any silly modifications

and I also look forward to seeing some video in action, I bet the all the relays clicking and clacking as you change speed sounds lovely!

 

when you say its your first car, do you mean its your first Autoshite car or do you mean it literally as in this is really your first car? 

 BTW on the batteries and excuse me if you are already well aware of this but make sure whichever ones you get they are deep cycle rated, something like regular car batteries are not really designed to be continuously drained then charged up like batteries are in an EV, so will die pretty quickly in such applications

leisure batteries for a motorhome or something such would probably be a good bet  

 

[EmperorPigeon]

1 hour ago, somewhatfoolish said:

That's crying out for a skoosh with a jet washer.

My thoughts exactly when I was done. With the Enfield now here, that would probably go too...

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

glad to hear the car has arrived! I look forward to seeing some more pics  

its quite interesting to see they did a couple 4 seater ones, I never knew that! it almost looks like a baby estate car  

very cool to see one saved and being given a sympathetic recommissioning rather then any silly modifications

and I also look forward to seeing some video in action, I bet the all the relays clicking and clacking as you change speed sounds lovely!

 

when you say its your first car, do you mean its your first Autoshite car or do you mean it literally as in this is really your first car? 

 BTW on the batteries and excuse me if you are already well aware of this but make sure whichever ones you get they are deep cycle rated, something like regular car batteries are not really designed to be continuously drained then charged up like batteries are in an EV, so will die pretty quickly in such applications

leisure batteries for a motorhome or something such would probably be a good bet  

 

And here is the arrival of the E8000 on my drive:-

Yes this is my very first car. Leisure batteries are indeed the route I'm going down. Before I bought the car, I costed up 8 12v 135ah leisure/semi-traction batteries at roughly £500. Still about the same price now, but those are far down the line..  All the electronics were disconnected already, save for the old charger and associated electronics. For some of the more exposed cabling that may still be needed that I can't remove from the car, I covered the ends in duct tape (only thing I had to hand), the rest of the existing cabling will be scrapped when new cabling is installed.

The plan is to get some kind of gazebo/scaffolding with my own fabric to create a soft garage. But as of the right here and now, I did give the old girl a bit of a wash and removed the moss build up. I've already started a mental list of what I'll need to get a bit further down the line, and the first thing that will happen is rust treatment courtesy of Bilt Hamber and seeing what's left of the old girl afterwards.  Should have all that stuff by the weekend. I expect to be fabricating/recreating most of the chassis, which when welded in place will be painted hammerite white and waxed. Depending on the weather and finances, I'm looking at least four months before she's structurally sound and if I'm fortunate cosmetically restored as well. Then it will be everything else...brake rebuilds or replacements depending, new tyres are a given, any new window glass in case I break anything, new headliner, new carpeting to go with the cleaned salvageable carpeting, the wheels will no doubt need refurbishing and that will be done professionally.

As with any project where one is told "everything looks to be there", that always means glaring omissions. The boot door window glass for one. Still, I have a box of spares to go through and the seats aren't all that bad. Just in need of a deep clean and careful repair (no bodgery like I did with the windscreen cover, a lot of duct tape as the ripstop was too arduous and time consuming to sew). There's more but the mind boggles and needs coffee.

[320touring]

Interesting choice if first car - hope the project goes well!

Have you heard of this battery tech? Silicon Dioxide.

They seem to be a mid point between Lead Acid batteries and Lithium, both in terms of cost and performance.

I've never used them - only seen it mentioned on YouTube..

https://azimuthsolar.ca/product/12v-39ah-sio2-battery/

 

[Mrs6C]

I'm always interested in different approaches to batteries for traction, as I have a milkfloat that came without any batteries (and needs its own cabling and systems checking for missing and non-working items!) and would like to be able to run that on a set that don't cost a few limbs in return.

[EmperorPigeon]

3 hours ago, 320touring said:

Interesting choice if first car - hope the project goes well!

Have you heard of this battery tech? Silicon Dioxide.

They seem to be a mid point between Lead Acid batteries and Lithium, both in terms of cost and performance.

I've never used them - only seen it mentioned on YouTube..

No I hadn't head of that chemistry either. Sulphur Dioxide yes but not Silicon Dioxide. Something to look into more detail about. Noted although too expensive at this time but who knows, the price could very well be a lot less in a few years.

3 hours ago, Mrs6C said:

I'm always interested in different approaches to batteries for traction, as I have a milkfloat that came without any batteries (and needs its own cabling and systems checking for missing and non-working items!) and would like to be able to run that on a set that don't cost a few limbs in return.

Is that a more modern milkfloat but prior to the lithium takeover? I did a quick search in case you'd made a thread about it but my search-fu could be weak today...

[somewhatfoolish]

4 hours ago, 320touring said:

Interesting choice if first car - hope the project goes well!

Have you heard of this battery tech? Silicon Dioxide.

They seem to be a mid point between Lead Acid batteries and Lithium, both in terms of cost and performance.

I've never used them - only seen it mentioned on YouTube..

https://azimuthsolar.ca/product/12v-39ah-sio2-battery/

 

There's some weasel maths going on there, comparing their own product at 50%dod with Li at 100%dod(not that any sane person would discharge to that extent). I need to check the maths but my fag packet is telling me that used leaf cells are about half the price of this and will still perform better, not to mention being a lot lighter.

[Dick Cheeseburger]

Good man for taking this on. It certainly looks like it'll keep you busy for a while! They're intriguing little things. Much like Invacars, I wouldn't personally want one but I'm glad that people take them on so the surviving handful remain. I enjoy reading about them.

Interested to see your progress with it!

In the meantime, have a mug 😄

 

[320touring]

14 minutes ago, somewhatfoolish said:

There's some weasel maths going on there, comparing their own product at 50%dod with Li at 100%dod(not that any sane person would discharge to that extent). I need to check the maths but my fag packet is telling me that used leaf cells are about half the price of this and will still perform better, not to mention being a lot lighter.

Interesting - I just saw them on a couple of videos so looked at pricing.

 

What seems odd? I am no electrician 😁

[Will on Syros]

Fabulous that you have the car at last and a fantastic project for you. Well done

[Dan_ZTT]

Never even heard of these before

Looks like an interesting project, best of luck with it

[Alusilber]

I've read a bit about Enfield 8000s (having first seen one in the AA's "Drive" magazine some time in the 70s when they were still newish) but never heard of a long wheelbase 4-seater version before. Were these factory-built by Enfield or converted afterwards?

[EmperorPigeon]

On 11/4/2021 at 12:04 AM, Alusilber said:

I've read a bit about Enfield 8000s (having first seen one in the AA's "Drive" magazine some time in the 70s when they were still newish) but never heard of a long wheelbase 4-seater version before. Were these factory-built by Enfield or converted afterwards?

These were factory built, only the two exist though. When I seen the photos of both this and PWR 570P (which is restored and working if I remember rightly), this was ahead of its time. This is really one of the first 4-seater hatchbacks and you look at the side profile of this and say the side profile of Renault 5 of 1975, there is a striking similarity.  Similarly so with the Ford Fiesta a couple of years or so later and other completely new hatchbacks that started entering the market in the late 70s. No one who's alive now that worked for Enfield Automotive will know why, but perhaps it was a result of feedback from the Electricity Council testing of not having enough room in the back for children or shopping.

On 11/3/2021 at 11:44 PM, Dan_ZTT said:

Never even heard of these before

Looks like an interesting project, best of luck with it

Thank you. I've had a few people in real life who have had the same reaction. One of the binmen (sorry, refuse collection operative ) thought for a moment it was a DAF and another person, a delivery driver, had never seen anything like it before and was very interested in learning the history.  My next door neighbour who used to have and repair the various models of original Mini cars thinks its going to be very cool (and she's right ).  I really want to get her looking far better and working so I can demonstrate (read: show off ) the car, of whom I've officially named her Julie. Which I now realise as I'm typing this could also be a play on "joules"...not intentional but it works. I just didn't want to name her anything that would be pretentious.

Edited November 5, 2021 by EmperorPigeon
Forgot my manners!

[EmperorPigeon]

One quick thing before I go any further: I will be at Jonny Smith's ManchesTOUR just milling around. I see that there's a modified Volvo 850 estate, so I will probably be around that and maybe even cooing affectionately...

I was saving these photos for a bigger post, but this is supposed to be a moment to moment thread so here goes:-

Before any cleaning of the bench seat:-

Demon upholstery cleaner sprayed on, then rubbed in.

First pass complete and that was a brand new clean sponge microfibre cloth:-

.

Second pass complete and comparison:-

Upper section with foam applied, rubbed in, and being washed off:-

First stage of cleaning completed:-

This really signifies what this restoration is going to be. Mostly general DIY, cleaning, and elbow grease with some real engineering later on. All of the interior is in a poor state (dare I say shocking? ) and all will need a further clean and pieces of new leather that are easily obtainable and cheap. There's an independent fabric shop in the town I live, a specialist leatherworker, and plenty of farms that sell leather to the public.  The foam will no doubt need a deep clean/replacement, however I'm looking to save as much material as possible both for originality and keeping down the costs. I also noted that the leather went from feeling like it would crack and fall to pieces at the slightest touch to being flexible again. I have some leather upholstery wipes somewhere in my flat, so once I've gone over this again with the detailing brushes that arrived this afternoon, it should look even better!

Also, the Demon cleaner only cost £5 at Halfords in July. B&M now have it for £1.50, but I'd think that would only be in bigger stores and whilst stocks lasted. For a cheap potion it does quite nicely and the linen smell isn't powerful once it's washed off with a damp cloth.

[EmperorPigeon]

With the wind and rain having largely subsided yesterday, I got to make a start with the rust treatment when it was fairly dry and not blowing a gale.  I found an old bottle of Baufix oil spray stuff that allegedly is a rust remover and to be fair, it done well for just a few moments of soaking in and the plastic straw having long since disappeared. Right now, I only have mini brushes and bigger brushes for my drill (which I'll try out later on today - that being Tuesday the 9th) and my home prepared citric acid solution (which will be 1 part citric acid, 5 parts hot water in a spray bottle). I did record a video and that will be forthcoming when I've recorded more footage later.

The Bilt Hamber Deox-gel is the product I want and that will be bought but not right now, as money had to be redirected elsewhere as per usual. Also, the more I work on the car? The more I think of cutting the bad metal out and completely building anew piece by piece. *breathes* Less speed, more haste!

I did get to chat with Jonny Smith at The Late Brake Show tour in Manchester on Saturday, which was extremely helpful and informative. I even got a fist bump for my endeavours and that kind of real world validation goes a long way!

Anyway, I noticed that the tea shelf (as Furious Driving calls it) is held in place only by friction. I was able to safely remove it and I'll be able to clean the vinyl (could be leather, doesn't feel like leather right now though) in the warmth. It did allow me to take a couple of photos of the electronics...firstly, behind the steering wheel:-

And the Curtis 933 battery controller, the manual of which was chuffing easy to find and despite typos is very straightforward and informative.

As for the metal work, it may be a better idea to use rust restorer on both sides and give it a coating of primer. Especially as by the end of the session, it had started to rain again.

Anyway, just a quick update there'll be another update later on today.

[EmperorPigeon]

At this point, I'm more into the idea of outright rebuilding. There would have been more, but the weather has changed yet again for the worse. I can see myself removing all the bodywork, getting more bungee cords, and a heavier more weather resistant tarpaulin (although I'm still grateful that my neighbour gave me a tarpaulin at all).

Bonus: Two of my neighbour's cats taking shelter from the rain (the second is behind the first, she's mostly black and likes to hide...only comes out for Lick-e-lix):-

[EmperorPigeon]

More updates!

I have started a Drivetribe hindsight/retrospective blog that won't contain anything you didn't see here first. So far my first post has had over 13k in views, been featured on the Drivetribe homepage, and selected as one of the six best articles of the week. Well, last week anyway! On that last point, that could just be because of a lack of articles on there...but I'll take it anyway! The other good news is that I'll get a few pennies of ad revenue. I doubt it'll be much of anything, but even £5 is better than nothing at all right? Right!

Work has continued despite the weather, my sleep pattern, and my lack of interest in working in said weather.  It hasn't been bad today with just a bit of spitty rain, so I went out with the view to removing the dashboard. This didn't go to plan and the only thing that broke was the brake fluid container. Not much in it and all very brown and gunky, however the container is so brittle with age that just brushing against it was enough to shatter it. I cleaned up what I could out of it with paper towels, picked up all the plastic that had fell, and decided that the best thing to do is to remove the container completely...when I can get to it. For now, I've wrapped it up in tin foil and duct tape...which should keep curious kitty cats from getting to it.

I've had to come back in because of the frustration I was having. Very close to chopping the whole thing up, so I knew I had to just take a break and rethink my approach. Having done so, cutting the rusty nuts and bolts isn't such a bad idea.

I have successfully removed the Curtis 933 controller and the DC-DC converter that I seriously doubt is standard. Another detail is what I thought was the watt hours meter is actually a kilowatt hours used meter- I didn't see the full display until this morning.  The last total then was 5,562kwh consumed and the odometer tells me the car has done 32,026 miles. Little details that matter. As do the many photos I taken of the wiring which I'm all for completely replacing wholesale. Grumpy Pigeon is grumpy!

The upholstery has been cleaned, although it will need another pass later down the line as well as restitching. However my main concern is the metalwork and a seemingly increased amount of rust/cornflakes which, if I'm right, means time is of the essence to at least put a stop to the rot, get the panels off, and rebuild despite the weather as leaving it over winter will only allow things to get worse. Definitely a damned if I do and damned if I don't situation, especially as I don't have a dry and warm area to work in. I briefly considered one of those portable garage/shed things that are more akin to a gazebo only with heavier material, but the winds in my area would probably just blow it away.

Photos/videos to follow.

 

[EmperorPigeon]

As promised

From the other night: that was a clean cloth, and the top of the dash is now also clean after a further wipe down with a clean cloth. The cleaning revealed a tiny bit of a damage that a bit of glue will easily fix. But now on to Wednesday morning.

The wiring loom. The screws in the clips had rusted and with the slightest of messing around the clips came off with without any persuasion. I've sprayed some of that multi-purpose spray where the plugs are as they were difficult to pull out otherwise.

The curly wiring is for the light bulbs behind the dash, the wiring in the background is for the instrumentation such as the charge meter, and the fibreglass hinged lid IIRC contains the accelerator microswitches. I have the wiring diagrams as all good E8000 owners should have downloaded, it occurs to print them off so I can translate it to the real world and memorise it properly.  I've just noticed that the cracking can clearly be seen in the brake fluid reservoir. An additional image

Speaking of the heater, the black with white cross wire goes to the heating element in the windscreen and the metal pipe running through the middle of the photo is connected to the windscreen wash pump and spray jets. The piping as far as I can tell should run underneath the bottom rubber lip of the windscreen, the pump and piping will be removed and replaced outright (just moving about the wiring and the piping was flaking off from its holding position).

It occurs that whilst removing the dashboard etc is required, I may be better off approaching this with the panels removed and the front battery compartment also potentially being removed just to gain access. I'd go from underneath but that requires the passenger side to be strong enough to support being jacked up and that won't happen for a little while yet. There is a mild panic and worry, however I realise that if worse comes to worse then I'll just have to rebuild with new metal and replace the old in sections. Ways and means and all that.

So yes, this could be just as it was or it has degraded even further. Having just this moment checked my video footage it seems to be just as it was or with minimal degradation given the circumstances. That toolbox is plenty heavy too, not exactly the weight of an adult admittedly but it the car didn't just deteriorate instantly. The car does take my weight when I'm sat in the middle in between where the seats would be...understandably I still worry.

Here's the safety close-up of the Curtis controller whilst it was attached:-

All the screws are rusted as can be, yet they came out willingly with the exception of the last two that had rusted beyond help. As the wiring will only be replaced anyway, I pulled off the last two with pliers. It didn't take much either as the copper essentially turned to dust. My logic for keeping the wiring intact is to be able to copy it like-for-like with new wiring without having to just rely on the wiring diagrams.

On the right is a strong and daunting reminder of the wiring work ahead. Yuk!

 

Above left: Behind the steering wheel, the cobwebs have been since removed. Above right: clearer view of where the lights behind the dashboard go. Detritus since removed.

More as it happens.

[EmperorPigeon]

As I go through the videos and photos of the tinkering that I've been up to, here's a little video where I tested Bio-D Home and Garden Sanitiser versus Demon Clean. In my bathroom no less! Yes, you're all getting the royal tour here! XD

In other news, I bought a new brush set that I've been delighted with (new toy!) and I have continued preparing the old girl for the day when the panels come off and I tackle both sides of the steel. I did find in my stockpile of assorted DIY bits from Aldi and Lidl three spray cans of Pine Green and one can of light grey metal paint with rust protection. That's her colour sorted then for the time being

After I finished for the day with cleaning the inside steel that I could get to, I decided to give the old girl's windscreen a good clean.

And whilst I cleaned the inside of the windscreen for the sake of completeness, I also gave the speedometer cover a quick clean (having a senior moment, can't remember if its glass or plastic!)

More to come!

[barefoot]

Have you cleaned the roof yet?

[Mrs6C]

Do you know about this group?
https://enfield8000.weebly.com/