project 1951 Lanchester LD10 - Welding Near Wood

[Angrydicky]

Just caught up with this. Great work as usual. Interesting to read about your wiper motor restoration.

Did you know that all Lucas parts of that period are datestamped with month and year of manufacture? It's interesting because you can normally work out if components are original to the car by seeing if they were made within three months or so before the date of registration.

Your wiper motor was manufactured Jan 1948. So it's been changed at some point.

1     48.

 

[vulgalour]

I did not know that.  Given the car was registered in '51, does that suggest the part is from another car (very likely given what we know of it) or that Lanchester simply had a bunch of these sat about waiting to be fitted for a few years.

[Angrydicky]

I would say most likely it's come from another car.  Can't imagine they would have had stock hanging around that long. The wiper motor on the Hampshire, presumably original, is datestamped 10/50 while the car was registered 12/50.

The dipswitch, coil and control box will all be stamped too.

If you need a mechanical type brake light switch it's probably the same as Series 1 Land Rover, I've just bought a new repro one as my original had rusted through and the internal spring had weakened in the replacement I got so it wasn't returning properly.

[vulgalour]

I think our brake switch was replaced around the time the car came off the road in '84, the wiring looks right for that era.  Not checked it against what's out there but I bet you're right with a Series 1 Landy switch fitting, it looks like a really generic part.

[vulgalour]

Sorting out the rear lights on the Lanchester, the first time.

 

Before we get into this one, I have since found the problem and I made some mistakes in the wiring at this point that I didn't know were mistakes.  It has been a learning journey.  Right, let's get into this one then.  How hard can brake lights really be?

We begin with two fairly grubby light units, both complete.  These Lucas 464A lenses probably aren't correct since our car has aftermarket reflectors on the boot lid and these have reflectors that are integral to the lenses themselves.

The chromed bezel and lens are loose on these units, the two chromed screws hold them in by screwing through them and into the aluminium pod on the rear wings.  This is why you have to be careful removing them so that you don't drop the glass lens and break it... put a pin in that particular statement.  Once you've removed bezel and lens there's a rubber seal (which you can still get new) beneath that seals everything up quite well.

With all that removed you get a look at the inside.  Not bad all things considered.  This is the original white finish too, there was some debate about keeping it this original white or repainting in a different colour, something I experimented with and we'll see the results of a little later in this write up.

On the back is a rubber boot (also still available new) that covers the connectors and wiring.  These catch a lot of dirt from the inner arch so are quite important otherwise your connectors will just get full of mud and water and you'll have a bad time.

The other light unit has had a harder life, this one was on the side with the damaged rear arch so it's probably a replacement, or a repair of a damaged original.  What you can see here is the little earth loop next to the main socket, it's important not to have paint inside this bit.  You can also see the reflector is just a mess of black and red primer which is going to need refreshing in something more reflective if this light is to be any use.

They break down really easily.  A surprising amount of this is still available new, you can get all the rubber bits, the chrome screws and even the chromed bezels.  The glass lenses are difficult to find and when you do they tend to be expensive, and the main reflector/body can also be a bit harder to find.  The benefit of wide parts sharing on this one, so many cars used these light units there's still plenty of supply, just a shame they often get the classic car tax by unscrupulous sellers sticking prestige brand names on the listings to bump up the price.

Some time in the ultrasonic cleaner and a bit of Autosol and hand polishing got the units looking much better than I expected.  The rubber boots aren't in the best shape and will need replacing eventually but they'll do for now.

With those ready to go it was time to get them installed on the car.  The wiring for this pops up in the rear driver's corner of the boot with a separate branch piggy-backing across to the passenger side.  The green wire is for the additional indicators so we can ignore that one.

You need one of these shove-the-wires-through connectors for the earth wire to push into the loop on the back of the light unit.  You can also see me workign out here colours and what extra wires I need to buy.  As nicely made as this Autosparks loom is, I'll never get over how poor it was in terms of basic colour guides, or even a basic guide on what purpose each wire on the loom is intended for... but I digress.

To install the brake light wires, push down on the spring loaded tangs (ideally with the flat of a screwdriver blade) and shove the wires in, the tension of the spring holds everything firmly in place.  Be sure to have threaded the wires through the boot first so you can push that home too.

Connect that battery, turn on the lights and... nothing. Hmm.

I fiddled about for a bit and couldn't get any life out of anything, so back to the testing rig to find out what was going on.  I'll just pop these light lenses off carefully to get to the screws that hold the unit to the aluminium pod and, uh oh, butter fingers!

Fortunately, since recording I did get a replacement.  Cross with myself for fumbling it, all the same, and the irony of me warning about doing just this not long before doing it myself is not lost on me.  Test rig then.  Very simple, just three wires with one for earth, one for running lights, and one for brake lights.

I'll be making use of a Lucas 464 lens (these have no markings on them, but that's what they are) which the car came with one of.  I got a replacement to match this happily which is the style Pat and I prefer and since we have the reflectors already on the boot lid we can run these no bother.

We'll test the unit with the original white paint first.  Running and then brake light shown here.

That at least shows the light unit does work so hopefully the problem isn't in that.  Next, let's see how the chrome painted light unit compares.  I was careful to mask off the bulb holder portion when I painted this.

In person, the chrome reflector offers a much brighter and wider spread of light than the original white.  Photos and video don't really show it as well as I'd like  That means we decided to go with the chrome, just like we did with the instrument panel, and we now know the light units work properly.  The back of the units were painted in purple enamel since that's all I had to hand and they're totally hidden from view so the colour doesn't really matter.  I made sure to mask off the electrical connectors and the inside of the earth point before spraying so that we'd be assured of the best possible connections.

Everything reassembled, and the moment of truth.  Will they work?

Yes!  And also no.  Whenever the lights are turned from sidelight to main, the rear lights (but not the number plate light) turn off.  Now, at the time of writing this I do know what the problem is and I believe I've resolved it as I've been unable to replicate this issue since making the correction.  As usual, it was a simple problem that was very obvious once found.  Many of my problems were related to not knowing what I'm doing and being confused by the info I did have available.  No fault of anyone trying to help with this one, I can be a little hard of learning at times.  The headlight wiring would also be corrected and improved later and those too are working as they ought now.

The most frustrating part of this chapter was definitely that when the headlights did this...

...the rear lights did this.

 

[vulgalour]

 

The interior light on the Lanchester didn't work when the car arrived.  Since putting the new wiring in it seemed like it ought to be a simple matter of connecting it, sticking a bulb in, and then it would work.  This was not to be the case.  Happily, things are a bit simpler than they might be on this because the Lanchester only has a switch on the unit itself to operate it, there are no additional door switches to worry about here, so there are a lot less things to go wrong and investigate.  Before we do anything it needs cleaning so we can assess what we're dealing with.  The unit is held by three screws to a piece of plywood fixed to the roof frame behind the headlining.  You'll need to remove the white lens to get to the them.

Once it's off the car, you can lift the unit out of the bakelite trim which is just a loose fit, there are no fixings or locking mechanisms on this.

The lens locks to the central unit by means of a bayonet fitting. Simply press very lightly and twist and it comes undone easily.

It's a complicated looking mechanical switch and a simple festoon bulb holder inside.  There is some signs of corrosion in here which can't be helping matters.  I opted not to dismantle the switch or remove it from the housing, there didn't seem to be any benefit to doing that.

Taken apart enough to clean.

I made use of my ultrasonic cleaner, soapy water, and some Autosol metal polish.  Nothing aggressive was required, it all cleaned up very easily.

On testing, it seemed to be a little intermittent in function.  After some fiddling I could get the bulb to illuminate but the unit wanted to rest in the off state.  This is not a bad thing entirely, it means it's likely to be safer when in the car and less likely to be a battery drain or fire hazard as a result.  It is, however, annoying that I can't get it to function reliably.  If you touch the switch and apply a little pressure it works.

However, as soon as that pressure is released, the connection is broken whatever the position of the switch.  The problem was the main rivet on the switch itself.  I did my best with the tools to hand to try and peen it over and tighten it a little but I need more suitable tools and/or a new rivet putting in to tighten this up.  It's probably just several decades of use that has made the rivet a little loose.

We got it working pretty reliably after some tweaking and felt comfortable fitting it in the car to see if it would work in situ.  It did!

Then it didn't.

Then we figured out where the switch needed to be exactly for it to work.  You sort of turn it on and then turn the switch off a little bit but without engaging the off position and there's just enough tension in the mechanism to overcome the loose rivet and maintain the connection.  One day, we'll replace that rivet and it will work properly.  For now, it works well enough.

With that off the list, I moved on to refitting the roof rail interior trims.  The driver's side one was broken when we got the car, someone must have been in at the roof wiring to try and resolve some problem or other, there was definitely signs of that, and unfortunately the thin plywood of the trim had got snapped.  These trims appear to just be nailed to the body and so I copied that with panel pins since it seemed the sensible route.  The first ones I tried were too long for the job, and I just left them sort of wiggly sticking out just to keep the trim safe until I could get shorter ones.

The second set of panel pins were a big improvement and the job went smoother.  The trouble is, the frame of the car is so tough you can have a pin going in lovely even through the original holes, and then it will suddenly stop and bend when you hit it.  It's entirely possible there's also the broken rusty remains of old pins in some of those original holes of course.

It was nice to have a line drawn under this part of the project, sealing all the wiring away now we were confident we didn't have to touch this bit again.  We had also tested the semaphores and found they do work.  There'll be more on those in a future update so I shan't go into it here.  Sometimes, the little wins are the ones that keep you going on a project like this and I do seek them out when things aren't going my way elsewhere with a project.  It really does help.

 

[vulgalour]

It's important to keep yourself motivated with a project and Pat and I have been looking at all the fun things people do with 40s/50s style cars.  Last year we picked up a 50s exterior sun visor and today finally got it properly mocked up on the car to see what needs adjusting.  It's made of pressed steel, which means I have all the tools and materials to sort out the fit fairly easily.

I am aware this will not be to everyone's taste and that's fine.  The centre section is a smidge too wide so it needs a little bit taking out, or the bolt holes under the chrome trims slotting to compensate.  It also needs the upper fixing bolts moving forward a little to correct the angle slightly.  That should make the whole thing sit flatter and more in line with the roof.  All that aside, it does look the part and suits the car really well, helps that the front end styling is more than a little American.  Since I need to pull it apart to strip and restore it anyway, the adjustments shouldn't be too much hassle to do at that point, and I can reprofile edges where required.

We also considered spats to try and sort out some of the dumpiness without chopping the body about.  Austin Princess A135 spats have a profile we like and while there is a pair on eBay currently for about £300, I reckon we could make something at home that will do well enough using the same basic principle.   No need to lower it either really, the wheels fit the arches really nicely aesthetically speaking and lowering it isn't necessary.  As Pat put it after I introduced him to the wonderful world of bombs, "Like that, but British." and I'm totally okay with that.

A few sets of stainless full wheel hubcaps will probably make their way onto the car too in the future, they're a great way of totally changing the look of the car very quickly without compromising what's underneath it all.  The trick is keeping the accessories on the classy side and keeping the colour palette restricted to blacks and chromes. There will be no Halfords stick on chrome letters here.

[lesapandre]

The Daimler Consort Convertible was spatted from new - these have a slight uplift along the bottom edge:

[lesapandre]

What will it be like? What indeed...

[vulgalour]

1 minute ago, lesapandre said:

The Daimler Consort Convertible was spatted from new - these have a slight uplift along the bottom edge:

I tried that too but didn't like it as much on the Lanchester, I think you need the longer body lines and proportionally lower roof that the Daimler has for it to work as well.

[vulgalour]

 

Time for another Lanchester video.

[vulgalour]

Right, this here is what they call a long shot, but since this sort of thing is what started this thread I thought it worth trying again, just in case.

@Hertz popped a link to a decent donor over in the eBay tat thread: https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C1563686

TL:DR - *rattles begging bowl*

For a little bit of context as to why we're asking for help, Pat and I got Covid in November and it's hit us pretty badly financially.  We've recovered to baseline, work has picked up to normal levels for both of us, and we're now on the upward swing.  However, it's wiped our savings since neither of us could work properly until the start of February and I had virtually no sales at all for the run up to or during the Christmas period.  An arse, but that's how it goes sometimes.  We've also pulled in and paid off about every favour we can from relatives who helped us through the last couple of months and we don't want to take the piss there.

That's why we're not just announcing a new donor vehicle we've bought and instead are putting out feelers in case anyone can help.  Essentially, I reckon we're looking for a loan to afford buying the whole car and getting it transported the 180ish miles from where it is to where we are, that's probably in the £700-1000 range.  Unfortunately while our savings would normally cover that (because that's what savings are for), obviously they're drastically depleted currently.

I know there's other options out there, like dodgy loans at a million per cent APR and what not but we really don't want to go that route.  I also know this is a very frivolous thing to ask for help with, first world problems and all that.  Mostly this is down to the rarity of the item in question, and the less than favourable timing of it becoming available.  If we miss out, we miss out.  Never mind.

 

It's very cheeky to ask for the help, I know.  Just thought I'd chance my arm just in case since that's basically how the funds were got when our car appeared in the first place, for which we are very grateful.  You never know unless you ask and asking costs nowt.

 

 

Happily, we do have very understanding neighbours.

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, vulgalour said:

It's very cheeky to ask for the help, I know.  Just thought I'd chance my arm just in case since that's basically how the funds were got when our car appeared in the first place, for which we are very grateful.  You never know unless you ask and asking costs nowt.

Hmmmm this gives me an idea for something thats Autoshite levels of daft, and similarly cheeky, but you would not happen to theoretically have garage space to squeeze and store this indoors in with the Lanchester and Princess would you?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225481714110

 

[vulgalour]

Unfortunately the Lanchester packs out the garage pretty completely, the back end touches the stuff at the back of the garage and there's only enough space for a skinny person to get down most of each side when its put away.  Got no other covered storage big enough for even the smallest vehicle, disappointingly.  The Princess and Maestro sit out in all weathers as things stand.

[vulgalour]

I just figured out what that contraption reminds me of!  Windlepoons' wheelchair in the Discworld books.

[Christine]

Vulg ,visit the Carriage museum in Maidstone....

 

 

[LightBulbFun]

25 minutes ago, vulgalour said:

Unfortunately the Lanchester packs out the garage pretty completely, the back end touches the stuff at the back of the garage and there's only enough space for a skinny person to get down most of each side when its put away.  Got no other covered storage big enough for even the smallest vehicle, disappointingly.  The Princess and Maestro sit out in all weathers as things stand.

No problems  as you say above, was worth a cheeky ask LOL 

(and I had completely forgotten about the Maestro in all of this LOL)

 

I hope you are able to secure the spares Lanchester! I have the same but also opposite,  problem of I have the means to bid on that Argson and I want it oh so badly, but I just have nowhere to put it *sad face*

so I know how you feel in this regard! and I fully get why your asking for help  (because I am desperately  doing exactly the same here with this Argson)

4 minutes ago, vulgalour said:

I just figured out what that contraption reminds me of!  Windlepoons' wheelchair in the Discworld books.

hah! had to google that but yeah! thats an old school bath chair if i ever saw one, the old world construction, large rear-wheels small front wheel, also gives me shades of a Carter invalid carriage

or a Fitt continental  (the machine on the far left)

[vulgalour]

Has there ever been a less appropriate name for a conveyance than the Fitt Continental?

[vulgalour]

22 hours ago, Christine said:

Vulg ,visit the Carriage museum in Maidstone....

 

 

It's actually on the list for places to go this year.

[LightBulbFun]

BTW sorry to bring up Carriages again, but I was looking at the spares car for sale and I could not help but notice, its registration mark PPD550

same series as another Argson PPD305 that I am familiar with, gotta be some sort of autoshite, sign right? LOL

anyways back to Lanchesters before I get shouted at...

[vulgalour]

A deposit has been paid, balance pending delivery confirmation.

The car community once again being unbelievably awesome in the face of my cheeky ask for help.  We'll be doing our best to rehome as much of this car as possible so none of it goes to waste and we hopeful recoup some of the expense of purchasing it.  I don't know precisely what's going to be arriving, just a rough idea.  Car has no paperwork and isn't on the DVLA system but since we have no intention of returning it to the road, that isn't a worry for us.  Quite excited about this one and will, as always, keep you all posted on progress.

[Angrydicky]

Spares cars are incredibly useful and really help a project along. I’ve effectively got a spares car with the old Hampshire bodyshell, I’ve got it stood outside the workshop and I’ve slowly been robbing it. Too slowly, as a bird has nested in one of the gloveboxes. It’s a nuisance as I’d wanted to strip the last few bits off and get it weighed in.

Would really recommend one to anyone restoring a car especially one with hard to find parts. It will quickly pay for itself.
The only thing is having somewhere to store it while you pick the bits off you need. Or the space of two cars to store all the parts you strip off it.

I’ve recently bought another pre farina A55 as well so should really find myself one of those for spares.

 

[vulgalour]

Donor cars are absolutely worth the investment.  Even if you don't save any money, the amount of hassle and time it saves is worth it.  Having that quick reference for a job so you know where something goes back on, or just the right sort of bolt.  I could buy all new bolts for the stuff I need to replace but it'll be so much nicer if I can use the old hardware that has the nice tapered end to the thread so they locate easier, that sort of thing.  The space is the biggest issue, realistically we are going to have some Tetris happening with the loft to get some of the stuff packed away since there's nowhere else to put any of it and some things that shouldn't live in the house will have to just so we can clear things to be able to get back into the garage.

Then there's the scrap collectors.  We've got a pretty good relationship with most of them, I put out what I can when I have it, but this donor car is going to be like a sausage to a labrador.  Pat and I have a plan, which is mostly to work fast and methodically so we can clear the thing away.  Easily portable stuff taken off first, and then the rest disabled and made difficult to move as we work through it.  If there's anything we can pick up between us, it'll get shifted out of sight, anything we can't do that with will just have to take its chances.

Happily, Pat loves taking stuff apart and organising it all as he goes so that takes a big chunk of stress off for me.  He's got a system all planned out, I know how pretty much everything comes apart and goes together now, so between us we should make pretty rapid progress.

 

Very much looking forward to the next Hampshire update when it happens.

[vulgalour]

Donor is arriving Saturday morning.  That's perfect because I have nothing planned this weekend, so I guess now I do.

[Vantman]

Has the spares car arrived yet? 😀😃

[vulgalour]

Not yet!  Delivery person is aiming for a 10am delivery and is driving about 200 miles so I'm expecting that delivery time to be more of an estimate.  They must be a morning person.

[vulgalour]

I have arrived.

Somehow I now have to resist the urge to rummage until Pat gets home after work this afternoon.  I've already found some treasures and seen enough of the overall condition to not feel at all bad about breakign this one for parts.  The Maestro did its best trying to tug it further back up the drive but the new resident has decided where it has landed is where it's comfortable.

[Joey spud]

Excellent. It was a no brainer really,the chance of a cheap spares car wasn't going to turn up everyday.

It will make your lives so much easier and hopefully speed things along.

 

 

[vulgalour]

After some time, Pat and I have cleared out the interior, the boxes and boxes of stuff, and found some actual treasure. Also a lot of rat poop. Every piece of plywood is riddled with woodworm to the degree that some of the car has self-disassembled. The rot to the steel is pretty extensive in places.

Perhaps the most exciting find in the whole car has been a NOS looking front engine mount which is something our car needs and isn't available to buy.

The only disappointment thus far has been discovering the seats are red, not brown. We've salvaged the material anyway because antique leather is hard to get for repairs, especially in less usual colours. Headlining on this car used to be green, which was a surprise, but has faded to the same sort of brown as our once-salmon-ish headlining so that's going to help with the last of the interior repairs I need to do.

Haven't even started on the body of the car, it's taken us this long just to clear it out and we still haven't gone through all the boxes yet so there's bound to be more treasure hiding. This was a shockingly good purchase and should pay for itself in the parts we use alone.

[High Jetter]

You certainly seem more invigourated than you were t'other week. Loving your work on this.