citroen h van Idiot Buys 1968 Citroen h van, wants to convert drums to discs

[PhilMcCrakin]

2 hours ago, NorfolkNWeigh said:

Presumably the Rover lump is quite a bit lighter than the original too.

i had a P6 3500S engine in a S2 Land Rover which would just about do 75/80 and the standard drums were adequate enough , even for a 19 year old idiot who drove  it flat out everywhere. Well adjusted drums with modern linings would not even require a servo  if you're committed about when you need to stop...

as Mr Pastry said working out the drag is a good starting point, I'll will do refurb of the current drums and test this with the v8un1 combo, before re-inventing a way of stopping the wheel. I think I have become fixated with swapping everything old out on the van for new. The existing drums are no self adjusting however, wonder if I could retro fit them to self adjust.

[PhilMcCrakin]

Just now, PhilMcCrakin said:

Presumably the Rover lump is quite a bit lighter than the original too.

The indenor engine and gearbox are cast iron, my 1 ton hoist struggled to lift both and I had to split them apart to lift them out safely. I suspect that the V8 and un1 gearbox probably weigh less than half of the original lump.

[somewhatfoolish]

6 hours ago, Mr Pastry said:

Interesting pics, thanks.  Only 91BHP?  That may be correct, but I don't know the Rover engine.  I have done some ball-park figures, but let's wait and see what Darren has to say.

That sounds like the figure for the first V8 90s or the Stage 1; they got detuned to avoid people fragging gearboxes etc and to stay within the limits of the brakes.

[Tickman]

How many miles a year are you planning to do?

Manually adjusting the brakes is not difficult and is quite a good routine to get into with drums.

Well adjusted drums can be great, poorly adjusted and you might as well not bother.

[PhilMcCrakin]

17 minutes ago, Tickman said:

How many miles a year are you planning to do?

Manually adjusting the brakes is not difficult and is quite a good routine to get into with drums.

Well adjusted drums can be great, poorly adjusted and you might as well not bother.

Unknown at the moment but I would like to use it regularly if possible. (optimistic I know)

[Tickman]

If you planned a drum brake clean and adjust every 1,000 miles that should be more than enough.

An hour's work once you are well practiced, think you have already proven you are capable with the work you have done.

[dollywobbler]

I seem to recall Darren's H is still on drums. My H van seemed to have no trouble stopping, so I suspect a lot of the 'H vans have crap brakes' comes down to poor maintenance. We took ours all over Norway, so plenty of hills. I wouldn't like to do too many stops from speed with drums mind you. They'd warm up a treat.

A V8 conversion makes so much sense. Mine was stock, and 50mph had the engine absolutely screaming - a credit to the largely-1930s technology that it put up with that with no problems over a 3100-mile roadtrip but by heck my ears were sore!

[bangernomics]

C25/J5 stuff is readily available via coastal motorhomes in Southampton. They do mail order and discount if you quote classic hymers FB group of 10%.

Plus they’re friendly and helpful. Full stub is probably the same, get the chap with the talbot express to get a tape measure out for you.

[Jenson Velcro]

A few years ago on the blue forum, a guy fitted an Audi tdi engine and disc brakes etc to a H van. I think his user name was hanger18.

[nigel bickle]

My HY van ( 73, swb- unused several years) has, I recall damn good brakes for its load capacity.

Huge drums, but more than sufficient - even fully loaded, flat out.   Drums get a bad rep, but well  set up, are more than adequate. 
I’d get the shoes rlined to a more modern, harder spec, ( quick & cheap) & return to the issue if found wanting, once up/ running.

 

[Three Speed]

3 hours ago, Jenson Velcro said:

A few years ago on the blue forum, a guy fitted an Audi tdi engine and disc brakes etc to a H van. I think his user name was hanger18.

It's possible I met that guy today at Brooklands.

This H-Van has a 5 cylinder VAG engine fitted - I forget exactly which one. Discs all round. The guy said he had taken it over 100 mph which is twice as fast as it was meant to do - so I would think discs were a good idea. This was a really nice van - much welding done and a lovely paint job.

The standard H-Van brakes are quite similar to those on my Traction. As has been said above, when adjusted properly they are pretty damn good. The biggest difference to an H-Van would be that the handbrake works on the front wheels rather than the back.

[Mr Pastry]

How much power does a 5 cylinder VAG engine produce?

I now have some better data, and the drag coefficient of the van may be lower than I thought - say around 0.65.  If so, 100mph would need 231bhp, gearing permitting, and going back to the Rover v8, 160 bhp would deliver 88mph.

Googling "H van conversion" produces a lot of rubbish - and that is before you add the word "coffee" to the search.   But the general opinion from actual long-term owners seems to be that the brakes are fine if set up and maintained properly.  And the handling starts to get "interesting" at around 65 mph.  

[Stinkwheel]

And the handling starts to get "interesting" at around 65 mph.

 

I’ve owned an

H van and driven a few as well. In all honesty the handling gets interesting at 55, if handling is even the right word. And I agree with everyone else on here, the brakes are the least of your worries.

 

 

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[Jikovron]

Gearing and power curves may impact the calculation a fair bit.

 if the original engine is past its peak power at 50mph it may be that the drag has risen enough to come to a crossroads with the falling power output or that the engine is simply brick walled against max continuous rpm.

[Mr Pastry]

3 minutes ago, Jikovron said:

Gearing and power curves may impact the calculation a fair bit.

 if the original engine is past its peak power at 50mph it may be that the drag has risen enough to come to a crossroads with the falling power output or that the engine is simply brick walled against max continuous rpm.

Agreed.  But nobody is interested anyway.

[Jikovron]

Haha true ,,at least no one physically dies of boredom or I'd be responsible for a few casualties.

[Mr Pastry]

My calculations were deliberately simplistic and I hadn't even looked at torque figures - I'd be interested to see your analysis.   

[djoptix]

Tarox can custom make brake discs and rotors in pairs to any size/pcd/presumably also offset you want. Not cheap but... 

[PhilMcCrakin]

10 hours ago, Jenson Velcro said:

A few years ago on the blue forum, a guy fitted an Audi tdi engine and disc brakes etc to a H van. I think his user name was hanger18.

Yes it was I've been in touch with him regarding his break solution.

[dollywobbler]

12 hours ago, Stinkwheel said:

 

I’ve owned an

H van and driven a few as well. In all honesty the handling gets interesting at 55, if handling is even the right word. And I agree with everyone else on here, the brakes are the least of your worries.

 

 

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Can't remember having any issues with my H. It felt like a giant Mini. Rack and pinion steering and all independent suspension should be pretty good. I think one issue might be that getting the right tyres can be tricky, maybe that's why you found handling iffy?

[Mr Pastry]

Slightly off topic, but the H van suspension layout - asymmetric wheelbase and torsion bars all round - was borrowed without permission by Renault and used very successfully for the 4 and 16.    Citroen apparently were not pleased, but it's odd that they couldn't see the full potential of the system and went all hydraulic instead.

[Stinkwheel]

Can't remember having any issues with my H. It felt like a giant Mini. Rack and pinion steering and all independent suspension should be pretty good. I think one issue might be that getting the right tyres can be tricky, maybe that's why you found handling iffy?

You are probably right Ian, the only one I’ve driven with gusto was on very old tyres. The others have been quick goes in other people’s van’s and I didn’t want to push hard in those.


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[Stinkwheel]

Slightly off topic, but the H van suspension layout - asymmetric wheelbase and torsion bars all round - was borrowed without permission by Renault and used very successfully for the 4 and 16.    Citroen apparently were not pleased, but it's odd that they couldn't see the full potential of the system and went all hydraulic instead.

 

The way Citroen did full hydraulic in things like the DS and GS range though were vastly superior with their true centre point steering and double wishbones.

 

 

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[Mr Pastry]

19 minutes ago, Stinkwheel said:

 

The way Citroen did full hydraulic in things like the DS, CX and GS range though were vastly superior with their true centre point steering and double wishbones.


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I know better than to argue with a Citroen fan!

[Stinkwheel]

I know better than to argue with a Citroen fan!

It’s true I’m a Citroen fan, but I’m not blind to their mistakes/problems.




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[PhilMcCrakin]

On 1/1/2020 at 4:04 PM, Three Speed said:

It's possible I met that guy today at Brooklands.

This H-Van has a 5 cylinder VAG engine fitted - I forget exactly which one. Discs all round. The guy said he had taken it over 100 mph which is twice as fast as it was meant to do - so I would think discs were a good idea. This was a really nice van - much welding done and a lovely paint job.

The standard H-Van brakes are quite similar to those on my Traction. As has been said above, when adjusted properly they are pretty damn good. The biggest difference to an H-Van would be that the handbrake works on the front wheels rather than the back.

That is a thing of beauty. These vans are so ugly but so nice.

[PhilMcCrakin]

Just came across this little gem of the old Indenor diesel running in the van

[PhilMcCrakin]

http://www.citroenhyonline.co.uk/resources/Citroen H Type van Refurbishing the front brakes.pdf

 

Nice little write up here.

[PhilMcCrakin]

1 hour ago, Nicola H said:

i think rthose saying 150 -160 bhp esp as it came out of a RR classic  are more likely to be correct 

Yes it is the 9:35.1  150-160 bhp engine

[Jikovron]

This is the worst restrictor I've found in these so far, 5 8mm holes through an inch thick bung, meaning it's an 85bhp engine, the 136bhp version has a 32mm venturi through a phenolic plated and the 155bhp power house has FULL flow!