Andy's awful autos: OMGB! Putting a stop to things

[jim89]

So, with schoolboy hat on, how did the fluids mix & the exhaust smoke of woe likely happen? 

[SiC]

Is the block and head showing flat with straight edge on it?

Weird nothing visible on the gasket - can't help but think maybe someone overheated it and lobbed on a gasket in the hope to get away with it. 

[SiC]

@Saabnut is one of our MGB B-series experts from owning+running an MG specialist. 

[Andyrew]

Head and block look pretty flat from a quick measure, will clean up and check again.

 The first time the car puffed out a load of shite it had previously been ran up and was hot(no steam) then left to sit for a bit while I prepped the car for painting. Upon re starting it blew a load of assumed steam out the exhaust. Assuming the pressure build up in the system is pushing coolant into the cylinder after being switched off, there was no coolant on the cylinders today, however when I last ran it I had the cap off so wouldn't have had any built up pressure. 

Maybe headbolts slightly loose, or corrosion build up pushing it appart. 

Will clean and chuck a new gasket in, a stat and a cheap temp guage (original is broken so i haven't known how hot or quickly it's been warming up)  

[Surface Rust]

39 minutes ago, Andyrew said:

Head and block look pretty flat from a quick measure, will clean up and check again.

 The first time the car puffed out a load of shite it had previously been ran up and was hot(no steam) then left to sit for a bit while I prepped the car for painting. Upon re starting it blew a load of assumed steam out the exhaust. Assuming the pressure build up in the system is pushing coolant into the cylinder after being switched off, there was no coolant on the cylinders today, however when I last ran it I had the cap off so wouldn't have had any built up pressure. 

Maybe headbolts slightly loose, or corrosion build up pushing it appart. 

Will clean and chuck a new gasket in, a stat and a cheap temp guage (original is broken so i haven't known how hot or quickly it's been warming up)  

Stupid question alert; do you need a different head gasket for a +60 thou rebore or does a standard gasket suit?

[Andyrew]

14 minutes ago, Surface Rust said:

Stupid question alert; do you need a different head gasket for a +60 thou rebore or does a standard gasket suit?

Shouldn't do at that amount, bit of googling suggest 60 thou is the most you would want/can go with these engines

[Brigsy]

If block and head are straight with no other visble issues, id send another gasket on. Defo previous issues with no stat in.

Had similar issues with renault 5's before, gasket looks ok when removed and generally not running too bad, but drinking coolant etc.

[SiC]

@Matty had issues with his A-Series after a rebuild where the head needed retorquing after some miles were put on it after that rebuild. 

[High Jetter]

That gasket looks intact, so if head & block are straight sort the valves and box it up with a new Head Set. I'd agree it may have been amateur time previously.

[Matty]

12 hours ago, SiC said:

@Matty had issues with his A-Series after a rebuild where the head needed retorquing after some miles were put on it after that rebuild. 

Mainly cos I'm an idiot. I knew the engine had 50 mile on it when I bought the car but I ran it for 18 month without retorqing 🤣

Also the PO had used the wrong form and thickness washers so the head deformed the little skinny washers under heat expansion and lifted!

[Matty]

No incertainty there @Andyrew 🤣

[Andyrew]

Head and block cleaned up today, parts ordered aswell.

Head appears to be flat, Some pitting marks but I think it will be okay, I'll take a gamble. 

Without the history of the car its hard to piece together whats occurred, and really ill never know the truth.

Its a BHM engine code which is a factory replacement engine it seems. Mechanicals internally are very clean, so either very well maintained or low miles on it since refurb, Was it bored out that much at the factory or rebuilt again since then? 

I feel the headgasket I removed hadn't got many miles on it, 

I've ordered a later rubber bumper temp sender and a used tested gauge, this car has a broken mechanical type and at nearly 150 quid for a replacement that's not happening.  £20 in total for the later electrical type suits my budget.

 

 

 

[Andyrew]

Mild tinkering

The MGB was re assembled, fired up and smoked like a bastard, I've been working on it for the past few weeks and to be honest it can get to fuck right now so I stuffed it into storage and shut the door on it. 

A friend asked if id have a nosey at a 107 campervan tow car after the brakes accidentally got stuck on while being towed.

New discs and pads, a wheel bearing went on too at the back as it was grumbling. First time using FAI brakes, seem nicely made.

The panda of mother rews came in for 4 tyres after i noticed 1 splitting, one with a screw and one with a  chewed up inner was enough to go for a full set of budgets at 110 quid for 4. I cracked out my crappy laser alignment tool and got it to what feels straight enough, may pop it to my proper place and get it check. I don't really trust these things to be honest, 

The black astra has returned from being on loan, Its been laid up for a few months and wasn't being used. I jump started it on my friends drive and beat the piss out of it on the way home. One thing of note was the steering was off and i was getting some very sweeny style tyre squeal. I took a roundabout at a brisk pace but it sounded like I was doing about 80!. Stuck my wanky alignment on and if it's to be believed it was a bit off.

Tweaked it to 0 and it seems much better. on a quick test drive, squeal has gone from low speed and back to normal budget tyre screeching if giving it some shit. 

Regarding the alignment gauges, which turned out to be broken (buying something from Birmingham and it being fucked shocker) I binned all the battery pack and control board inside, purchased a 12v to 6v converter box for 7 quid and now it just Croc clips onto the cars battery. Nice simple cheap fix. 

 

[Andyrew]

Yesterday I had a look at a friend's 1 series that she wanted new brakes on, an 18 plate with the M sport package, christ the brakes were massive! She left the car with me and I had a quick nosey at it and decided that really they were good for another 8 to 10k and the garage that had advised her may have been wanting a bit of work. Given the Discs and pads all round cost £400.

While waiting for a phone call back I put the car outside and figured with a now free afternoon, maybe just maybe I could have a pleasant little tinker with the MGB. Maybe sort the brakes out just to get a bit of mojo, just an hour no problems. Pretty please.

MG fired up no problem with no smoke/steam either. Drove on the lift and as I was getting ready to lift it up my friend called and said she was happy for me to change the breaks regardless as she would only worry about them needing to be done.

Fire up the MG to put back in storage. Dies, pukes fuel out the overflows all over the floor, fucking fuck.

I heave the turd off the lift and push it across the yard and get the BMW sorted. 

Today I returned to get the MG out of the yard, a few taps on the carbs got them unstuck and I drove it straight into the workshop again no smoke or steam to be seen.  Let's take a look at the rad fan, this car has what appears to be a larger after market kenlowe fan, with no power getting to it butPower to the fan makes it work, I had a quick nosey at the fan switch. 

This car is a very early rubber bumper car, so has a centre fill rad. But unlike all the replacement rads online which are for cars with a mechanical fan , this has a hole for an electric fan switch (Like the later no cap rads) So hard to find then it seems this one. 

I decided to pop the fan switch out as the wiring into looked pretty rough and to test the switch. This photo doesn't show it too well but it was looking a little frail.

that went well. . . 

the retaining studs solder broke inside the rad so now the stud just spins and the rad leaks even more. Great, what a mojo boost this has been.

[SiC]

Is there enough room on that front pulley to put a mechanical fan on?

Chrome bumper had only mechanical fans.

Rubber bumper cars moved the rad forward to fit an electric in. But I'm not sure what year that happened.

[SiC]

On the 1-series, is there not a brake pad wear sensor? Every BMW I've known that's post 2000 has one.

Two stages of where it cuts through. First stage is purely for brake pad wear prediction where it knows how much left for mileage prediction. Second stage you get a red brake warning up on the dash and screen to say you need to replace your pads now. 

So the idea is that a garage shouldn't be saying it needs brakes doing until that warning comes on. 

[Andyrew]

No punishment would be harsh enough.

The wiring to the fan was separate but looked old enough to match the car, so maybe this was a factory thing? The loom itself was separate to the car loom I decided that the wiring was something that needs addressing. I ripped out the fan wiring and decided I'd just get a mechanical fan and do away with the fan switch, I'll leave the kenlowe in and wiring it up so it can be used in a emergency. 

The wiring then, some absolute throbber has been at the wiring, now when the car was restored in the past they re wrapped the loom while the engine bay was painted. Posh cloth tape? Electrical tape? No, fucking silver gaffa tape. It's exactly the kinda mess to remove as you would expect.

Hidden kill switches, fog lights and other tat splice into the looms hacked out and binned. Choc blocks, house hold wires, 3ft of cable made from 4 different bits of wire crimped together all ripped out. 

The two relays above looked aftermarket, I felt maybe they were added in to the headlight loom, the wiring was all varied sizes tiny wires joined to thick cables. Unwrapping the loom revealed they were just extended to move them about a ft away from where the should have been.  They are for the ignition and starter it seems. Why? just why did they feel the need to fuck about with them just to move them. I'll re crimp them back to were they should have been. 

 

[Andyrew]

7 minutes ago, SiC said:

Is there enough room on that front pulley to put a mechanical fan on?

Chrome bumper had only mechanical fans.

Rubber bumper cars moved the rad forward to fit an electric in. But I'm not sure what year that happened.

from what I can tell its the same as the earlier cars, a centre fill rad with no fan switch hole is easy to get new. 

Seems like 1976 was a bit of a mis match of stuff for the B. 

From what I've found I just need a fan and a spacer for it to mount to the water pump. I'll buzz MGB hive and ask them.  I like the simplicity of a mechanical fan. 

No loving the expense for a rad right now tho, 

[SiC]

Run one of these through a relay. You shouldn't need to run a relay but the contacts are shit and can't handle fan current very well. Then probably worth wiring a spare switch under the dash as an override. 

Or just run a switch and run it when you need to.

https://ebay.us/m/Xkpvba

Personally I'd retrofit a mechanical fan. I did exactly that on my Spitfire after the retrofitted electrical fan I didn't trust.

Also a mechanical was absolutely 100% fine on my BGT and never got it hot at all in all weathers. I imagine BL put them on RB cars to help with reducing emissions (less engine load) when trying everything to get through the latest emissions of the day (USA especially) and reduce the noise from the fan. 

[grogee]

32 minutes ago, Andyrew said:

Not loving the expense for a rad right now tho. 

I might have an exhaust job for you and your welding skillz... Fabricate new system for the Skoda using Felicia diesel rear (and centre?) box plus various bends/bits. £££ waiting!1!

[Zelandeth]

Shame the B is being a bastard, but don't doubt for a minute you'll kick it into behaving soon enough.

Random question for you.  You mentioned a while ago that you had been using a motor factor local to you for some parts.  Hope you don't mind me asking, but who/where?  I'm really sodding struggling here in that regard now.  I used to grit my teeth and put up with Halfords for basic random stuff I didn't want to wait for postage for or randomly needed - but now trying to even get a sodding bulb from them is a teeth pulling ordeal because near everything is behind the counter, I just refuse to do business with them any more. 

Bedford Battery treated me like something they had to scrape off their shoes, Motor Parts Direct gave the distinct impression that they only dealt with retail customers because head office absolutely insisted on it and how dare I interrupt their argument about the football, likewise Motorserv where I ended up leaving my stuff on the counter after they ignored me for the best part of 30 minutes, GSF never have anything I need in stock, and ECP still owe me £200 for the used parts they sold me, and the one independent I used to use up in Stoney Stratford closed a couple of years ago...so I'm short on options.

So a factor that's closer to me than the wrong side of Luton and are halfway decent would be nice to know of!  I also just like supporting local businesses where I actually can.

[Andyrew]

14 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

You mentioned a while ago that you had been using a motor factor local to you for some parts.  Hope you don't mind me asking, but who/where?  

Like everything where humans are involved it depends on who is serving. Usually boils down the person serving pretending that they know what you want or actually working out what you want. 

For the workshop the local MPD in leighton buzzard has been okay so far, they say they drop me a bit of discount which is nice and I like to think I'm an easy customer.

That's not to say I haven't had issues like parts saying in stock when they look them up only to find them not on the shelf, but because I worked that job for 10 years I know very well how these things go so I plan well ahead. That's not how things should be but it's how it goes,  its why most counter staff may even say "it says I should have them in stock" and go check.

 The BMW brakes was 3 visits and I have to return the wear leads as they were shite. Not the guy in the shops fault, it will be a crap cross reference with the manufacturer.

I'm sure you've been using Milehams where I used to work. For putting the effort in and wanting to actually help they are / were very good, and did have a wealth of knowledge. however as above it depends completely on who you get serving you, I will no longer use them, but that's a me issue and I'd recommend them to most people in the area. 

 

[Andyrew]

Agricultural, slow, crude and noisey

But enough about the MGB, I'm fixing a mower.

 

[Brigsy]

Mgb's exhaust might need some heat into it to get rid of coolant from h/g fail. 

[Andyrew]

Take one of these off, 

Nip out and collect these along  with some bolts for an invacar. 

Dead bearings out, New bearings fitted.

Now runs as smooth as a smooth thing.

[Andyrew]

The B has been fighting me and with the list of unfinished Jobs getting bigger today I needed a mojo boost and to tick one job of the list which was reassemble the rear end and fitt the chrome trims. 

[Andyrew]

Steam, or White / blue smoke? that is the question.  And why is it always windy when I'm doing this! 

Righto, the B has been a bit of a pig to start and the plumage out the exhaust is still an occasional thing. 

Quick compression test and they all appear to be about 160 ish 

The initial exhaust cloud appearance happened at the same time as the carbs sticking and pissing fuel everywhere. Maybe just a coincidence but given I found nothing obviously wrong with the headgasket upon removal (appart from the missing stat possibly hinting previous temp issues). 

Today i gave the SUs a quick go through, the floats were miles off and there was a seal spacer missing on one of the jet guides, jets were set miles differently too. I had wondered if by small chance the smoke was unburnt fuel from the carbs pouring it in. It would seem not but the job still needed doing, needs a basic rebuild kit but wanted to get it good enough for now.

2 Other issues needed resolving, I didn't have a temp gauge as the mechanical one was broken and very expensive to replace (£150)  so I purchased a used later rubber bumper gauge for 14 quid and a new temp sender for the same era of car, 

I also purchased a mechanical fan which was seemingly fitted up to 76, but I've learnt that this car is a mix of stuff.  Turns out my water pump is the later type that has a smaller pcd on the holes so it doest fit so for now I just wire the electric fan on permanent.

The other week With the sender and dial rigged up as the car was running the dial was rapidly going into the red, ohh dear. this was when I walked away to think more logical.

I'd fitted a new 84° stat and with stats being shite I'd wondered if it was stuck, removed it today and boiled the kettle then lobbed it in a mug. Nothing with 90° water but just off the boil water it opened up fine. 

I'd looked at the wiring diagrams and wondered if the wiring used for the sender in the later car had a resistor or anything in it to change the reading, Seemingly not. Dicky parts maybe? with the kettle to hand and as I handily have a sage smart kettle that does different temps with some bodgery wiring and a cup later. I submerged the sender in 80 degree water. Sure enough it went straight to red, luckily I found a used sender that was rolling about in the spitfire when I purchased it, swapped that in and at 80 got the dial at halfway, I boiled some at 90 then 100 and the dial moved accordingly. I chucked this into the car and rigged up the dial and fired it up. 

Then left it running , and running  and running For Maybe half hour. Dial raised and lowered as the stat opened, System hasnt over pressurised, no dropping of coolant.

Rev the car and 70% of the time there's light clouds out the back, I won't lie tho I can't tell if it's blue or white. Maybe because it probably also a mix of exhaust condensation, I feel It's a bit blue.

Now I know we aren't getting hot, the carbs are functioning good enough. I guess we are down to the little o ring valve seals, yes I should have done them when the head was off but given the other symptoms I had and it hadn't smoked before , I didn't think they were an issue, also I sold the 2 valve spring compressors I had as I never used them! 

Now to make a tool up to change them in situ, i don't really want to take the head back off and waste the gasket, I have scrap metal and an air compressor / rope.

Fingers crossed

 

[Zelandeth]

I think regarding what's coming out the back now, given how long it's been sitting and issues you've encountered, I don't think you're going to get a real picture until you've had it under load for a bit and burned off all the inevitable accumulated crap in the exhaust.

If it's burning a touch of oil on the overrun I'd not be massively worried provided it's not doing a good impression of a Gardner that's just been cold started.

I was astonished first time I came across a situation like this how long it took the exhaust to clear just from what was in there.

[Matty]

Just now, Zelandeth said:

I think regarding what's coming out the back now, given how long it's been sitting and issues you've encountered, I don't think you're going to get a real picture until you've had it under load for a bit and burned off all the inevitable accumulated crap in the exhaust.

If it's burning a touch of oil on the overrun I'd not be massively worried provided it's not doing a good impression of a Gardner that's just been cold started.

Yep. Mine was fully rebuilt (albeit I didn't change the rings as they were many pounds and in good order anyway). Doesn't use any oil in normal service but on a long motorway run it likes a little puff of oil on the overrun. I put it down to stone age tech and don't worry about it.

[grogee]

I have a decent-ish valve spring compressor you're welcome to borrow @Andyrew. 

But, have you seen the trick where you stuff rope into the bores through the spark plug holes to stop the valves dropping? Might be worth a go to change the valve guide seals.