Garden Shed

[SierraMikeHotel]

Needle gauges do give information quickly and clearly - which is why a lot of TFT displays show an image of a needle gauge, or can be configured to do so.

[Cheggers]

Exactly, if you like needle gauges just configure it to show needle gauges.

[They_all_do_that_sir]

This was a logical progression once we started seeing speed sensors replace speedo cables - the digital signal is converted back to an “analog” dial sweep in most cars built in the past 20+ years.

This, if anything it's potentially more reliable as it removes the need to convert to an analogue dial.

 

The most complicated bits are the sensors and ECU running it all, which we've had for decades now.

 

It's no different from plugging in an OBD scanner and seeing all the live feeds. It's just a display screen.

 

Consider the TV screens weve had in the house for over five years, the smartphones in our house that get a hammering daily (especially the kids ones) and I've no concerns with the lifespan or reliability of the screen itself. The only failures we've had are from devices being dropped. You'd be doing well for that to happen in the car. I've never had a screen lose brightness or quality. At least not degrade enough that it's not still perfectly acceptable to use.

 

The customisation is very cool. I imagine you can have all the dials or just one big Speedo or something in between depending on your taste. Maybe in future you'll be able to download aftermarket Speedo themes so you can have old Smith's gauges or whatever.

 

 

 

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[Kiltox]

App Store for your dials. Custom odometer if you jailbreak it

[forddeliveryboy]

Would it be too much to ask for a properly accurate speedometer? There's data from wheel sensors to relate how fast they're turning and from the GPS including gradient, so why not? You could program real velocity plus 2%, or +3mph if wanted.

 

It's crazy that in this world of cheap, powerful and tiny electronic processors, our speed is open to the vagaries of tyre pressure and wear and suchlike. Especially given the penalties given if limits are exceeded by small amounts.

[They_all_do_that_sir]

.

[SiC]

Would it be too much to ask for a properly accurate speedometer? There's data from wheel sensors to relate how fast they're turning and from the GPS including gradient, so why not? You could program real velocity plus 2%, or +3mph if wanted.

 

It's crazy that in this world of cheap, powerful and tiny electronic processors, our speed is open to the vagaries of tyre pressure and wear and suchlike. Especially given the penalties given if limits are exceeded by small amounts.

You know that the majority of modern cars know exactly how fast they're going but lie to you? Lie because they need to legally do that. The amount they lie depends on the manufacturing and model.

 

My RX8 used to always be 2 mph out and our A4 is similar. The Civic varied depending on the speed - usually around 3-4mph, but lied a fair bit more above the 70mph. While the TT is pretty much matches the GPS or maybe at most a 1/2 mile per hour.

 

For comparison, my 44yr old MGB Speedo is .... bang on !

[Pillock]

Would it be too much to ask for a properly accurate speedometer? There's data from wheel sensors to relate how fast they're turning and from the GPS including gradient, so why not? You could program real velocity plus 2%, or +3mph if wanted.

 

It's crazy that in this world of cheap, powerful and tiny electronic processors, our speed is open to the vagaries of tyre pressure and wear and suchlike. Especially given the penalties given if limits are exceeded by small amounts.

I'm pretty sure, although can't prove, that our Merc uses GPS for the speedo. It's bang on, which as said is really unusual. It also shows the speed digitally on the satnav display which always matches the needle on the dial.

 

Manufacturers don't legally need to make speedos inaccurate but they don't want to be accused of landing people with speeding fines.... So it's easier to design them to be a few % fast so when you put new tyres on with a few more mm tread you're not at risk of getting busted.

[forddeliveryboy]

I'm pretty sure, although can't prove, that our Merc uses GPS for the speedo. It's bang on, which as said is really unusual. It also shows the speed digitally on the satnav display which always matches the needle on the dial.

 

Manufacturers don't legally need to make speedos inaccurate but they don't want to be accused of landing people with speeding fines.... So it's easier to design them to be a few % fast so when you put new tyres on with a few more mm tread you're not at risk of getting busted.

Ah - that's good to hear. It's high time - I find it irritating having never knowing accurately how fast a car is moving until I cross-reference to gps readings on the straight and level. Every make has been different in their exaggerations, some add a fixed number, some a % and other both. Confusing.

 

 

 

You know that the majority of modern cars know exactly how fast they're going but lie to you? Lie because they need to legally do that. The amount they lie depends on the manufacturing and model.

(written before Pillock enlightened us)

Sure of course, not being allowed to under read and allowing tyres of differing rolling circumferences means they all over read since they only take their data from wheel rotation. Why not use all this electronic gubbins for something useful, and compute real speed +1 mph using all the data available?

[Pillock]

Well, I can't be sure of the enlightenment... But I too always make an effort to find out how wrong the dial is. My 2015 BMW is about 5% fast which does make a difference when you're sat on a motorway for three hours. Set cruise for "74mph" and you get home a few minutes earlier as you're doing real 70, rather than indicated 70mph which is only 66ish.

 

Tried the same in the Merc and smartphone, satnav display and needle all agree.

[RayMK]

The technology is impressive, as is its reliability.  Less impressive is the installation in some cars (reflections and screens so far off the normal driving line of sight that the often tiny menu driven changes cause the characteristic +or- 1 metre lane wandering of moderns. Perhaps that's why many vehicles have lane keeping assistance!).  I have never seen a smear screen that is devoid of fingerprints, even in glossy showroom cars.  Wiping the screen to remove fingerprints when driving presumably makes the vehicle go berserk.  Rear view cameras that make reversing feel like a video game are also superb if shown on the smear screen, however, they are usually there because rear visibility on modern vehicles is generally hopeless resulting from a mixture of misguided style and the philosophy of designing a nice strong but squashy structure for accidents.  

 

Overall, I prefer a simple, well designed, well placed set of dials for basic information and a simple array of switches/buttons/levers which do not require more than a cursory glance to find (if that).  This is why I bought a Mitsubishi Mirage Juro CVT last year and probably why relatively few people followed suit - no toys. The useable rear seats, unlike many in the class, were also a factor  .

[SierraMikeHotel]

I like the reversing camera on the NewMerc because it's a saloon.

 

Nothing to do with modern design - there has never been a saloon where you know with certainty from the driving seat where the rear end is. There's always a bit of boot sticking out where you can't see it.

[Ghosty]

Why are Merc gluing lines of '70s ashtrays to their new dashes?

[Craig the Princess]

If they don't offer an Allegro style gun sight I'm not interested.

[catsinthewelder]

If I was designing a modern dash for myself I would just put the speedo, tachometer and fuel gauges there with anything else appearing in red if it was abnormal.

 

The Peugeot Boxers have quite a good stereo/sat-nav/phone screen that isn't too distracting especially since I found the feature to store your favourite dozen radio stations that eluded me for a while.

[Richard]

They'll be unreadable in most conditions, reflect in the windscreen at night and be generally user-unfriendly. Cheap though, and that is the only thing that is considered in car design now. 

[SierraMikeHotel]

 

 

If I was designing a modern dash for myself I would just put the speedo, tachometer and fuel gauges there with anything else appearing in red if it was abnormal.

That's a good idea.

[jcr]

I absolutely detest these stuck on screen dashes... it's just lazy design work. The manufacturers never update the software (or if they do it's for a cost) and it's proprietary harder-to-use evolution for the sake of evolution. The look-a-like dials are a stupid gimmick - just have the number, it's easier to read.

[SierraMikeHotel]

 

 

We’ll just have docks for our phones soon. Pop on the phone and swipe according to what info you need, speed, fuel, temperature, tyre pressure etc. Why not, we are all walking about with a touchscreen in our pockets anyway.

I have just leaned that this is already a thing. A colleague has a Renault Twingo which apparently only has a rev counter if you plug your phone into it.

[Sir Snipes]

They'll be unreadable in most conditions, reflect in the windscreen at night and be generally user-unfriendly. Cheap though, and that is the only thing that is considered in car design now. 

 

I've used touchscreens in modern Fords and Citroens and they've always been perfectly readable. Having stereo controls hidden under sub-menus and the Transit's baffling systems for DAB stations is a different matter though....

[beko1987]

From doing 300 miles in an Ioniq, the instrument cluster is very cluttered! Just about got used to the speedo position and that was about it. Got back into the Laguna and the cluster felt very bare which it really wasn't. The ioniq's would change the display too, I went to overtake at one point and must have made it got into sport mode as the dials changed to angry red and a bug revometer replaced the speedo... Gr9 when I was in a 60 with camera getting past someone doing 45,give me the bloody speedo back!

Using the touch screen required leaning over too...

 

If these modern clusters had a 'simple' mode it would work, I never had any glare on the screen and once a bit familiar with it it was OK, bar the cruise control on light which looked exactly like the eml light on the laguna, was in the same place and the same shade of yellow...

[Kiltox]

I have just leaned that this is already a thing. A colleague has a Renault Twingo which apparently only has a rev counter if you plug your phone into it.

Really!!

 

I had a courtesy Twingo and it had some weird phone dock thing but I didn’t realise that.

 

Granted I wasn’t looking for a rev counter, being a courtesy car the limiter was the only one I needed

[beko1987]

I only noticed the other night on the 406 that the speedo and rev counter, with the lights on have a little extra bit of needle that peeks out at the top of the lettering on the dial! Bloody cool, and I think there's some magic going on as the physical needle stops below the writing.

 

Will keep my entertained all winter that will

[Uncle Jimmy]

All this touch screen shit is an abomination, makes it even harder for the blind to operate when there's no buttons you can feel.

[Cheggers]

Touch screen dashboards are brilliant, it gives the Luddites something else to piss & moan about.

[Richard]

Fuck off.

[AMC Rebel]

All this touch screen shit is an abomination, makes it even harder for the blind to operate when there's no buttons you can feel.

 

 

Er... for use in cars the lack of Braille wouldn't seem to be too much of an issue

[AMC Rebel]

I really like the idea of being able to pick and choose what appears and when and where.  I liked Saab's dark cockpit option.

 

This is only effectively the "glass cockpit" they have had in planes for ages. 

[SiC]

Difference between an aircraft and a car is that looking down at a screen for ten seconds doesn't end up with you hitting a tree. Plus you have dual controls, so your co-pilot can take responsibility for not hitting stuff.

[iainrcz]

My GT 86 has a touchscreen radio/sat nav.

I'd rather have buttons, but that wasn't an option.

 

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