Ford timelord

[Pieman]

Actually there may not be confusion over dates, or why the car appeared in London in a pre raced state.

After all, it is a Timelord....

[quicksilver]

With all these intriguing new developments, I thought it would be useful to put together a Ford Timeline of the important dates in the car's history. Here's what I've gathered from this thread (updated November 2020 with recent developments!)

Sep 1968: WGU18G first registered

Early 1986: used as a background vehicle in Superman IV filmed at Pinewood (scenes cut from film)

Mid 1986: acquired by Flinton Chalk from Pinewood disposal auction and painted as a Bluesmobile tribute

Late 1986/early 1987: acquired by Jimmy Cauty

May 1987: first published photos in Cauty’s ownership as the JAMsmobile

3 Sep 1987: keeper change for WGU18G recorded by DVLA

Sep 1987: driven to Sweden, breaks down and is recovered to London

Sep/Oct 1987: unidentified red Galaxie allegedly acquired as an engine donor

Oct 1987: original car allegedly destroyed by a falling tree and its identity transferred to the red car

6 Oct 1987: V5 issued for WGU18G

Dec 1987: photographed in London by Melody Maker magazine

Feb 1988: photo from Sweden used on Who Killed the JAMs? album cover

May 1988: appears in Doctorin’ The Tardis video and record art as Ford Timelord

Nov/Dec 1988: appears in The White Room film

By Jan 1989: Jimmy Cauty purchases Ford LTD JLE67K as a replacement for WGU18G

Early 1989: Galaxie and LTD both appear in Beatmasters & Merlin’s Who’s In The House video

31 Mar 1989: last tax on WGU18G expires

Spring 1989: LTD sold to Simon Matthews of Jesus Jones

Mid/late 1989: Cauty tries to borrow LTD back from Matthews as Galaxie is now a non-runner

Dec 1990: last public appearance in 3AM Eternal video combining unused exterior footage from The White Room with new interior footage. Car may have been abandoned at Pinewood Studios after filming and acquired from there by Paul Bickers.

Mar 1991(?):  Jon Mace photographs a disused but complete car at Trancentral (Mace gives this date as Oct/Nov 1991) - this may be the first car and it was not destroyed in 1987

Apr 1991: a model Ford Timelord appears in Last Train to Trancentral (Stadium House mix) video

30 Jun 1991: raced by Paul Bickers at Swaffham and subsequently scrapped - confirmed demise of a Ford Timelord, probably the second originally red car

Oct/Nov 1991(?):  Jon Mace photographs a disused but complete car at Trancentral (this date is quoted by Mace but another source quotes Mar 1991) - this may be the first car and it was not destroyed in 1987

Nov 1991: clips from Doctorin' the Tardis featuring Ford Timelord appear in the Tammy Wynette Justified and Ancient video

Nov 1991: Jimmy Cauty moves out of Trancentral and car is rumoured put into storage in Norfolk

15 Mar 1992: Jimmy Cauty races a Chevrolet Nova in KLF colours at Nordoff-Robbins charity race at Wimbledon, supposedly having been asked to race Ford Timelord. Phil Blake is present and witnesses Cauty crash it into the wall. This car is totally destroyed and left for the event organisers to dispose of.

31 Aug 1993: last tax on JLE67K expires, having been sold by a friend of Matthews while he was overseas on tour

23 Sep 1993: last keeper change recorded for JLE67K

Nov 1994: Drummond and Cauty push a hired Nissan Bluebird over a cliff, possibly as a substitute for Ford Timelord

1997: a Chevrolet Caprice in KLF colours owned by Phil Blake appears at the K Foundation's M25 Spin event

2013: Jimmy Cauty unveils his art installation Aftermath Dislocation Principle, featuring a model Ford Timelord (not the one from the 1991 video) hidden behind shipping containers

Aug 2017: Phil Blake's replica Ford Timelord WGU18E vandalised by Drummond and Cauty at Welcome to the Dark Ages event in Liverpool

Sep 2019: Bill Drummond tells Datsuncog there were two Ford Timelords

Dec 2019: contact with Paul Bickers confirms he raced a Timelord at Swaffham in 1991

Dec 2019: Phil Blake joins Autoshite and shares the findings of his own investigation that reached the same conclusions

23 Feb 2020: keeper change recorded for WGU18G

6 Apr 2020: new V5 issued for WGU18G

8 Apr 2020: Darren of the hunttimelord blog reports an interview with Jimmy Cauty in which he claims there were two Galaxies

10 Jul 2020: another new V5 issued for WGU18G

[Mrs6C]

@quicksilver

Hey! Don't forget the Ford Timelord imposter I caught leaving Milton Keynes railway station on September 22nd this year! It was JDK 582N, a 1975 Dodge with a 402ci motor... not sure if and where that fits into things...

[quicksilver]

7 minutes ago, Mrs6C said:

@quicksilver

Hey! Don't forget the Ford Timelord imposter I caught leaving Milton Keynes railway station on September 22nd this year! It was JDK 582N, a 1975 Dodge with a 402ci motor... not sure if and where that fits into things...

I suspect that one is just a fan-made tribute with no connection to the KLF. I've added into the Timelord Timeline anyway for completeness just in case it turns out to be relevant. Are you sure about the reg as JDK582N comes back as not found on the DVLA site? It would appear to have been imported long after the KLF disbanded, given that I know JDK467N was issued to a Renault 5 imported in 2016.

[Mrs6C]

4 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

I suspect that one is just a fan-made tribute with no connection to the KLF. I've added into the Timelord Timeline anyway for completeness just in case it turns out to be relevant.

You could well be right. I got the numbers transposed in my post also... it's JDK 528N... possibly a Bluesmobile replica rather than KLF, given that it's a Dodge Monaco...

[LightBulbFun]

Pretty sure it was a KLF Ford timelord replica

as when I saw it, this thread immediately popped into mind!

(but I could have also miss interrupted it, having googled pictures of the  Bluesmobile!)

 

5 hours ago, Datsuncog said:

The LTD also seems to have survived on the road since at least 1993, although no-one seems to know its eventual fate - Simon apparently lost track of it while touring with Jesus Jones, asking someone he'd left it with to sell it on his behalf, just to get it out of the way.

 

 

for what its worth JLE67K had 14! keepers, with the 14/last keeper getting it on the 23rd of the 9th 1993

no scrapped marker

[Pieman]

On the subject of the LTD, let's go back to the entry list for that Nordoff Robbins Music Therapy charity banger race meeting....

OK pop-pickers, propping up the chart at number 70 it's Jimmy Cauty of the KLF with his Chevy Nova, but who's that in at number 24?

Why it's "Gen" better known as Simon Matthews from Jesus Jones!  As yet we haven't got the definite date of this meeting I don't think, so.....did he race the LTD that night??

Mad theory maybe but it might just hold up.

[quicksilver]

13 minutes ago, Pieman said:

On the subject of the LTD, let's go back to the entry list for that Nordoff Robbins Music Therapy charity banger race meeting....

OK pop-pickers, propping up the chart at number 70 it's Jimmy Cauty of the KLF with his Chevy Nova, but who's that in at number 24?

Why it's "Gen" better known as Simon Matthews from Jesus Jones!  As yet we haven't got the definite date of this meeting I don't think, so.....did he race the LTD that night??

Mad theory maybe but it might just hold up.

Well spotted and that's a good theory but seems unlikely as Matthews himself said his mate sold the LTD to someone else while he was away. One odd thing on the DVLA site is that its tax expired on 31 August 1993 but LBF says the last keeper change was on 23 September and it was issued a new V5 on 3 November. That suggests it was sold after the tax ran out and whoever bought it didn't put it on the road but went to the trouble of applying for a V5 for some reason.

[mk2_craig]

Possible that the Oct 87 V5 was issued to reflect new engine number? This of course assumes that the owner could be arsed to be meticulous about such things. 

[quicksilver]

7 minutes ago, mk2_craig said:

Possible that the Oct 87 V5 was issued to reflect new engine number? This of course assumes that the owner could be arsed to be meticulous about such things. 

October 1987 is also the date of the first "information sheet" released by KLF Communications. I wonder if the keeper change in September 1987 was a transfer from Cauty as an individual to the newly-formed KLF Communications company and the new V5 is related to that, although it wasn't issued until a month later.

[LightBulbFun]

24 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

One odd thing on the DVLA site is that its tax expired on 31 August 1993 but LBF says the last keeper change was on 23 September and it was issued a new V5 on 3 November. That suggests it was sold after the tax ran out and whoever bought it didn't put it on the road but went to the trouble of applying for a V5 for some reason.

for what its worth

I have noticed what you described with some  invalid vehicles iv looked up, (ie a keeper change/V5 issued after the tax ran out/was canceled)

I have wonder if it was a case of the scrap yard getting keepership of the vehicles before scrapping them?

(although as mentioned for JLE67K, theres no scrapped marker, but perhaps the scrap yard or whoever just never sent off the V5)

 

[quicksilver]

That makes sense but I think it may have been if one dealer acquired the vehicle and then sold it to another for scrap - they would need a V5 in their name to prove they legitimately owned the vehicle and were allowed to sell it to the scrapyard. I wouldn't read too much into the scrapped marker as I think that was a more recent introduction and older scrapped vehicles don't have the marker set even if the scrapyard returned the V5.

[LightBulbFun]

40 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

I wouldn't read too much into the scrapped marker as I think that was a more recent introduction and older scrapped vehicles don't have the marker set even if the scrapyard returned the V5.

I think the oldest scrapped marker iv seen is for EPH399J marked scrapped on the 20th of the 11th 1979

(I do get a date of when the vehicle was scrapped, or im guessing when the marker was applied)

its worth noting to not get it confused with the whole CoD thing, it just seems to be a checkbox that used to be on V5s which you would send in to the DVLA (or DVLC?) and then a marker would be applied against that vehicles record

(REV's older V5s have the "I have scrapped this vehicle" check box, but her newer ones dont, I assume because it was replaced by the CoD)

of course like you say I dont read too much into it, because vehicles can be marked as scrapped and very much still exist, and likewise a vehicle might not be marked scrapped but could also be very dead

[bezzabsa]

H E A D    H U R T S 

 

So where do the Blues Brothers fit into this????

[Pieman]

The car's second owner "Flinton Chalk" painted it into what I assume was a Bluesmobile tribute livery, then the KLF bought it off him and did their own thing with it.  In some pics you can see a very faded "P1" on the rear quarter panels, which suggests Bluesmobile livery.

[Datsuncog]

Okay, so I've emailed Jon Mace, the photographer who took the moody black 'n' white pics of a sad-looking Timelord outside Trancentral.

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/beaniedee/klf/

The photos of the car that Jon uploaded are tagged November 1991, which obviously doesn't square with the Swaffham pic taken at the 30 June 1991 racemeet, where the car's been stripped and prepped for racing. 

So my simple question to him was confirm when he took the London photos - month and year.

 

If you click the above Pinterest link, you'll also see two pictures taken in the studio, one of Bill and Jimmy together and one of just Jimmy.

  

These pics don't have any date attributed, but state that they were taken while the KLF were working on their LP The White Room.

The White Room album was released in March 1991.

Interesting.

While there's no indication that the pics inside were taken at the same time as the pics outside, it does raise the possibility that there's been some sort of confusion.

Perhaps all the pics here date from November 1990 - at which point the band were likely busy working on The White Room, while the Galaxie outside probably hadn't turned a wheel for eighteen months, its tax disc having expired in April 1989.

 

I'm not sure whether Jon often stopped by Trancentral to take pics, but it does appear that he holds a piece of the puzzle.

 

If he comes back to me and says whoops, made a mistake on the year, it was 1990 after all - then the conventional timeline makes sense, and we can assume that the car was pulled from its resting place not long after these pics were taken, dragged around London on a fiming rig for the 3AM Eternal video, before finally passing on to Paul Bickers and eternal glory at Swaffham six months later.

If he's insistent that no, the car pics are definitely from November 1991, and the band pics were from the year earlier - then we're facing the possibility that WGU 18G did have a doppelganger after all. Or it is an actual Timelord, and therefore our understanding of time, space and Euclidean geometry is naught but an illusion.

If he ignores my email, then we're no worse off than before anyway.

[LightBulbFun]

26 minutes ago, Datsuncog said:

Or it is an actual Timelord, and therefore our understanding of time, space and Euclidean geometry is naught but an illusion.

it would not be alone 

regenerated from a Mk12A to a Mk12E!

(for those wondering the car in the second picture is actually JBY503J (Ex LVX250J) )

[Datsuncog]

Oh, and as an aside, today I learned that WGU's previous owner, Flinton Chalk/Gary Mitchell, played keyboards in cult 1990s space-rock group T.C. Lethbridge, alongside Julian Cope and two members of Spiritualized.

T.C. Lethbridge took their name from the eponymous C20th archaeologist and parapsychologist, who in later years focused his academic work on paranormal subjects, and the band wrote songs referencing these esoteric and mystical aspects.

Seems that both Jimmy Cauty and Flinton Chalk shared quite similar interests in 'Earth mysteries' and numerology, which may explain how the two came to know each other - and therefore how WGU came to pass to Jimmy.

I hadn't twigged that the early efforts to turn WGU from a plain black sedan into a cop car replica might have stemmed from Flinton having a crack at the 1974 Dodge Monaco that featured in the 1980 film The Blues Brothers, but that seems absolutely right based on the addition of the gold star on the front doors and the 'P1' sprayed on the rears (which I'd never noticed either, but is quite obvious on the Jon Mace pics now that Pieman's pointed it out).

This is leant additional credibility by the lettering"To Serve and Protect" on the front wings...

...as this is what appears in much smaller type on the Bluesmobile in the film, despite the wording"We Serve and Protect'' being the motto of the Chicago Police Department (although, in the film, the car was purported to have been sourced from an auction of police cars vehicles in Mount Pleasant City, some miles north of Chicago).

Whew!

Thanks to the AS hivemind for all this additional info and insights; keep 'em coming!

[jonny69]

This is up there as one of my threads of 2019. Just epic!

[quicksilver]

I was just reaching exactly the same conclusions over my lunch. November 1990 would fit nicely as that was just before 3AM Eternal. We know it was last on the road in early 1989, so then it must have sat at Trancentral until it was dragged out for the video. After that I suspect it was kept by Bickers until Paul raced it. It's just possible of course that it survived the Swaffham meet and was dragged back to Bickers's yard, but was too far gone when Jimmy tried to race it the next year so they used the Nova instead.

Of course, this doesn't necessarily prove there was only one car, just that the one photographed by Jon Mace was later raced by Paul Bickers.

[bunglebus]

Currently watching Swaffham banger meet videos to see if I can spot The Timelord. Found May 91, close but no cigar...

[flat4alfa]

[Pieman]

It just shows how certain cool cars and detective work like this can suck you in.

A week ago I hadn't even seen this thread or even heard of this car, now I'm sat here thinking to myself "Why am I now completely obsessed over a random late-60s knackered Yank tank owned by a crazy pop group whose music I have no particular interest in?"

 

Because that's what car nerds like me do and it's what gives us our lifeblood, that's why.

[bunglebus]

Not having memorised the whole thread, has anyone been in touch with https://www.facebook.com/paulbickers?hc_location=ufi

[Pieman]

46 minutes ago, bunglebus said:

Not having memorised the whole thread, has anyone been in touch with https://www.facebook.com/paulbickers?hc_location=ufi

I've left a message with him and am awaiting a reply.

[Datsuncog]

1 hour ago, Pieman said:

It just shows how certain cool cars and detective work like this can suck you in.

A week ago I hadn't even seen this thread or even heard of this car, now I'm sat here thinking to myself "Why am I now completely obsessed over a random late-60s knackered Yank tank owned by a crazy pop group whose music I have no particular interest in?"

 

Because that's what car nerds like me do and it's what gives us our lifeblood, that's why.

Heh, I know... it's nerdery of the highest order, and to be honest I was pretty much in your shoes this time last year - I'd heard of the band but didn't own any of their output, and had been aware of the Timelords single and the car on the cover (and thought it looked triple hard as nails), but not much more than that...

But the whole KLF story is such a massively weird tale, that I couldn't help but fall down this huge rabbit hole.

Now I'm gibbering about it to strangers, and MrsDC made the error of asking me why was this such an important thing to me only the other night.

After about twenty minutes she had to tell me that she'd changed her mind, she didn't really care after all - just so I would shut up. 

The struggle is real, yo.

[Yoss]

There's a book in this Shirley? Or a six part mega budget blockbuster on Netflix. I mean not just the history of the car but the work going in to this thread. I'd watch it. 

[dieselassist]

ive just spent the last few hrs going through this thread; facinating n enthralling stuff altogether!! fair play datsuncog et all for all the ongoing research ...

 

[mk2_craig]

I’m warming to this idea that the WGU18G number plates were a little “flexible” in their application and may have graced one or more other Galaxies at various points. 
 

The photos purportedly taken in Nov 91, at Trancentral in Jeffreys Road, are of a car with no plates visible so had they already been temporarily/permanently “borrowed” for display on another example?

 

or maybe they had simply been “souvenired” by some fan who saw the car had become effectively derelict. I wonder if there might be plenty other period photos of the location, with or without Ford Timelord? I know it was a different era when cameraphones didn’t exist but the place would have been commonly known about all the same and no doubt legendary amongst KLF followers of the day. 
 

Also this, but DVLA suggests imported 1993:

[bunglebus]

Here's my opinion, for what it's worth. The Galaxie got banger raced, and the second car eluded to is the one that ended up with Jesus Jones. Of course the Galaxie might be tucked away somewhere in its post-race state, but I think the chances are slim