Ford timelord

[DodgeRover]

50 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

whichever ones details matches the details on the V5?

I know one motorcycle restorer who's finished bikes are always 'matching numbers' as Americans seem to obsess on. Oddly they were never matching to start with but number stamps are cheap....

[LightBulbFun]

6 minutes ago, Split_Pin said:

Has anyone checked the MOT history for WGU 18E? It looks to be in an equally parlous state as the original was back in 1991 and it has been out of MOT since August 2018.

Does anyone know who owns it?

Edit: Tax site says yes until August 2020 and not MOT results returned but the box is shaded in green. Confused.

it had a keeper change on the 1st of August 2017 for what thats worth

tax site is like that because its probably classed as a historic vehicle and as such is MOT exempt

[sheffcortinacentre]

That means it's mot exempt.

Lee1 was restored get hold of the dvd "Lee1 all the others are replicas" by Travis bell for the story.

[Dan_ZTT]

4 hours ago, Pieman said:

No one, because music acts are manufactured by Simon Cowell or Instagram these days.

They're still mostly not, just a few big ones that get all over the telly and are popular with teenyboppers. Plenty of adults still listen to music they connect with that's made by real people. 

What's most impressive to me about the KLF is how much mainstream success & fame they got, despite being utterly mental. There's plenty of crazy interesting artists out there now, from Amanda Palmer to Jamie Lenman to FKA Twigs and many more, it's just almost impossible to get noticed in the same way because there are SO many more artists out there at a mid level (thanks mainly to the rise of the internet and the decline of Smash Hits). 

 

[Pieman]

Back on topic - just made a phone call that might have jogged someone's memory and enabled him to join in with our quest for info.

[Pieman]

Can't let this thread slip too far down the forum!

I recently managed to have a brief phone conversation with Paul Bickers himself, and he confirmed that it was indeed the original Timelord that he banger raced.  Interestingly though, the theory I'd come up with that he obtained the car after filming the video for 3AM Eternal was incorrect - Paul tells me he was not involved with that and only obtained the car through one of his contacts in the film industry at a later date.  He did say that the car was scrapped after the meeting (unsurprisingly) and that was the end of Timelord.  Paul was however also involved in building the smaller Yank that was raced by Jimmy Cauty at Wimbledon - and I think that might be the car that got taken back to his yard in Norfolk, giving rise to the rumour that Timelord had survived.  I have sent Paul a link to this thread so hopefully if he has time he can give us some more input.

I have also spoken to Phil Blake, the owner of WGU 18E - the replica that the band themselves infamously covered in paint in 2017.  I haven't yet asked him about the incident with his car, but he did send me a much clearer pic of Paul and Timelord on track at Swaffham.

Someone did comment that only the driver's door had the small "lightning" logos around the Pyramid Blaster logo on the door, and that can clearly be seen here.  Also, looking at that rear wheel it seems that Paul took out the knackered original motor and dropped in a Ford Granada engine and transmission/axle - a common practice with Unlimited Bangers, although Yanks often had a Transit axle dropped in which usually buggered up the ride height.

Thanks to both Paul and Phil for their huge help.

(Edit) Phil has said this about the paint incident: "I took it along to take part in their "Welcome to the Dark Ages" event in Liverpool.  The car was shown in the BBC news footage which for some reason pissed them off.  They claimed I'd tried to upstage them thus painted white gloss paint over it.  I was there to support a band that I'd followed for 30 years, there was no intent to upstage them."

[LightBulbFun]

15 minutes ago, Pieman said:

Can't let this thread slip too far down the forum!

I recently managed to have a brief phone conversation with Paul Bickers himself, and he confirmed that it was indeed the original Timelord that he banger raced.  Interestingly though, the theory I'd come up with that he obtained the car after filming the video for 3AM Eternal was incorrect - Paul tells me he was not involved with that and only obtained the car through one of his contacts in the film industry at a later date.  He did say that the car was scrapped after the meeting (unsurprisingly) and that was the end of Timelord.  Paul was however also involved in building the smaller Yank that was raced by Jimmy Cauty at Wimbledon - and I think that might be the car that got taken back to his yard in Norfolk, giving rise to the rumour that Timelord had survived.  I have sent Paul a link to this thread so hopefully if he has time he can give us some more input.

I have also spoken to Phil Blake, the owner of WGU 18E - the replica that the band themselves infamously covered in paint in 2017.  I haven't yet asked him about the incident with his car, but he did send me a much clearer pic of Paul and Timelord on track at Swaffham.

Someone did comment that only the driver's door had the small "lightning" logos around the Pyramid Blaster logo on the door, and that can clearly be seen here.  Also, looking at that rear wheel it seems that Paul took out the knackered original motor and dropped in a Ford Granada engine and transmission/axle - a common practice with Unlimited Bangers, although Yanks often had a Transit axle dropped in which usually buggered up the ride height.

Thanks to both Paul and Phil for their huge help.

(Edit) Phil has said this about the paint incident: "I took it along to take part in their "Welcome to the Dark Ages" event in Liverpool.  The car was shown in the BBC news footage which for some reason pissed them off.  They claimed I'd tried to upstage them thus painted white gloss paint over it.  I was there to support a band that I'd followed for 30 years, there was no intent to upstage them."

very interesting stuff, and thank you for going out of your way to dig up info on the timelord its been a very interesting ride!

(I wonder what may have happened if Paul did not request the car through his contacts... ah the good ol what if question!)

(and shame about WGU18E, I wonder if Phil and the Band will make amends at some point? the WGU18E replica is pretty awesome, and it would be cool to see it officially endorsed or what have you ) 

 

On 11/29/2019 at 5:57 PM, LightBulbFun said:

Love this shot  

must replicate it in REV

Just remembered about this Model 70 which would be a fair better candidate! LOL

[Pieman]

Oh no you don't, you are not turning yet another thread around to talk about the same topic

I will speak to Phil and see if he has any more stories - he is the chap mentioned at the beginning of this thread who has the Ro80 and other rotary-engined cars.

[Datsuncog]

Well, that's phenomenal - thanks so much for pulling so many strings to speak to those with a concrete link to the Timelord!

 

So I think we finally have all the evidence to formulate a definitive answer to Bren's question, a year after it was asked - WGU 18G was indeed raced and subsequently scrapped in June 1991, after a very eventful four years in Jimmy Cauty's ownership.

The race footage indicates that so much bodywork had been hacked/fallen off, that I think we can put to bed any hopes that the remains were squirrelled away somewhere.

The latest pic, from Paul, clearly shows the grille with a square lighting mount attached to it. Combined with the matching door rot previously identified, I'd say it's now beyond question that it's the same car.

As well as the Granada running gear, it appears that there have been extensive repairs to the crumbling rear arches, which now have a completely different profile - as well as lashings of fresh black rattle-can paint.

Interesting that my earlier theory - that Bickers Action were involved in the '3am Eternal' video and hence had been the catalyst in getting the car from Jimmy to Swaffham - also turned out to be unfounded.

Other yank cars owned by the group at different times, wearing mock-police livery along with KLF insignia, seem to have muddied the waters somewhat when it came to digging through the car's history. Even band members themselves seem to consider that there was more than one Ford Timelord.

But for me, the car that appeared on the record covers and in the videos put out by this bizarre guerrilla duo of wilful nonconformists is the one and only Ford Timelord.

So we know it travelled to Sweden, and later drove down to Spain - and back again, one way or another.

It appeared on TV and in print on multiple occasions in the late 1980s, and I really can't think of another group that had a car so closely tied in with their image (other than possibly The Monkeemobile, but I know what I'd rather be seen driving).

Cooler than a cool thing, even if its mortal remains became bean cans nearly 30 years ago, I think we can all agree that WGU will live on forever.

And it appears that this thread has even partially inspired a '66 Galaxie to enter the AS fold - and what could be a better result than that?

It's been a wild ride, kids. I think we're nearly done.

Cheers to all who have contributed, challenged and gone above and beyond in their detective work!

[Pieman]

The only question now is - does the owner of the HuntTimelord site know about this thread?

[LightBulbFun]

Nice conclusion @Datsuncog  

2 hours ago, Pieman said:

The only question now is - does the owner of the HuntTimelord site know about this thread?

I doubt it, this thread is in the rather confusingly named open section of the forum where only members with enough posts can see it

I wonder if it would be worth having a mod move this thread to the main section?

[quicksilver]

Brilliant stuff and what better confirmation than from the man himself, well done to everyone involved in solving this mystery. Jon Mace must be mistaken with his date, and the only remaining question is how Paul got hold of the car and did he actively seek it out or was it offered to him through his industry contacts? It certainly looks like it was utterly knackered and needed an awful lot of work just to make it race-worthy, so any hope of a return to the road had long gone even before it was raced.

And LBF makes a good point. Why is this thread in the open forum when it's clearly car-related and deserves a wider audience in the main forum? My vote is for moving it.

[Pieman]

Paul B said he got hold of it through a contact in the film industry, that's all he told me.  Will see if I can get him to sign up here.

[Pieman]

3 hours ago, Pieman said:

The only question now is - does the owner of the HuntTimelord site know about this thread?

Well it would appear so, that or the owner reads the same Facebook groups as me - https://hunttimelord.wordpress.com/

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, quicksilver said:

And LBF makes a good point. Why is this thread in the open forum when it's clearly car-related and deserves a wider audience in the main forum? My vote is for moving it.

aye I was wondering that, since its definitely very much autoshite!, this is @Bren's thread so I think he would have to ask a mod to move it?, but yeah I agree/vote that it should be moved

1 minute ago, Pieman said:

Well it would appear so, that or the owner reads the same Facebook groups as me - https://hunttimelord.wordpress.com/

those pics as you know also turned up in a banger racing forum/thread that Stuart is part of, so the guy who runs the blog may have got em from there as well

I imagine if the owner of the blog was on this forum he would of made himself known by now!

[Pieman]

Ah I didn't know Stuart was on Ovalchat too - yes I do know they turned up on there, cos it was me who posted the thread on there!

[LightBulbFun]

3 minutes ago, Pieman said:

Ah I didn't know Stuart was on Ovalchat too - I posted them on there as well.

well I imagine he is! as he linked me to this thread https://www.ovalbangerchat.co.uk/topic/215186-the-klfs-ford-galaxie-timelord/?tab=comments#comment-1937287

but Its seemingly Members only

[Pieman]

Yes, you have to be registered and logged in to see it.  I posted that thread when I was requesting info from the Banger boys.

[mk2_craig]

There’s a report here of the photos at Trancentral being March 1991:

 

 

Notwithstanding the later date given by the photographer it sadly looks like that’s the last piece in the puzzle. 

[Pieman]

WHERE did you find that??  If that info is correct that seals it - the discrepancy over the date of those pics was the only uncertainty left.  If that page has got it correct then those pics were indeed taken three months before the car was bangered.

[quicksilver]

That date makes more sense, after 3AM Eternal but just before Swaffham and probably when the band were putting the finishing touches to the White Room, which was released that month. I've updated the Timelord Timeline on page 7 with the new information gathered since then.

[LightBulbFun]

another thing i'm wondering about is, who is WGU18G registered to?

it might not exist anymore, but it does not have a scrapped marker, as as far as the DVLA is concerned its still registered to someone!

send a V62 off and see if you get a pot of gloss white in response?

(thats one thing I still need to find out about for invacar reasons, is when you V62 a vehicle, does the DVLA send anything to the last recorded keeper saying that someone's V62ed their car?)

[Pieman]

I know Phil (owner of WGU 18E) wants the original plate for his replica, which would be fitting.

[Mr Pastry]

29 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

another thing i'm wondering about is, who is WGU18G registered to?

it might not exist anymore, but it does not have a scrapped marker, as as far as the DVLA is concerned its still registered to someone!

send a V62 off and see if you get a pot of gloss white in response?

(thats one thing I still need to find out about for invacar reasons, is when you V62 a vehicle, does the DVLA send anything to the last recorded keeper saying that someone's V62ed their car?)

Yes if you apply for a V5  in that situation, DVLA will write to the last recorded keeper to see if they still have the vehicle.  IIRC if there is no reply within a month, they will issue a new V5 to the applicant  though I imagine other checks may be made.

[Mr Pastry]

It is of course an offence to try and obtain a V5 by false pretences, and they may wish to inspect the vehicle, and sometimes they do.  Shall we leave it there?

[LightBulbFun]

9 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

It is of course an offence to try and obtain a V5 by false pretences, and they may wish to inspect the vehicle, and sometimes they do.  Shall we leave it there?

Oh, im well aware!

im the last person who would want to try and falsely acquire a V5!, im just curious how it all works exactly for Invacar reasons! (as i have just posted in my main thread)

(the said "send a V62 off and see if you get a pot of gloss white in response? " was meant as a joke evidenced by the emoticon and the pot of gloss white!)

[quicksilver]

I would hazard a guess it would technically still be registered to whoever that last V5 was issued to in 1987, so presumably either Jimmy Cauty or KLF Communications. Were anyone to hypothetically apply for a V5 for Timelord, the DVLA would presumably send a letter to Trancentral, which given that Jimmy hasn't lived there for nearly 30 years would no doubt confuse the current residents.

[Lankytim]

Wouldn't you need the VIN number anyway?

[mk2_craig]

3 hours ago, Pieman said:

I know Phil (owner of WGU 18E) wants the original plate for his replica, which would be fitting.

Is the replica new enough?

[sheffcortinacentre]

The Granada rim shares the same pcd as the galaxy & fitting a Granada irs would require extensive work where as the eng/box very little.

The DVLA are supposed to check with previous keeper but I know of loads that have changed hands with no contact from them.