invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[LightBulbFun]

I have known of the national archives at kew gardens and known they held some invalid vehicle/invalid vehicle service stuff, found myself there from time to time during various times of research

 

but found myself going down a bit of a rabbit hole just now and they do seem to hold some really interesting things

like this https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C11214455

which I think would finally tell us just how much did a Model 70 cost...

 

or this one that I have run into in the past but still wonder about

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1345271

 https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1345272

says its from 1950-1951, but goes jumps from 197cc to 500cc so sounds very Model 70 related...

 

this one is also quite interesting if it really goes back to 1964! https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C11119158

might explain the one 1963 drawing of a Model 70 part Stuart ran across!

 

and this one for @Mrs6C 

On 25/10/2020 at 19:20, Mrs6C said:

Thinking about it, I'm surprised that Lawrie Bond didn't come up with a three wheeled invalid car design to be made under the 'Bond' brand. The Bond three wheelers were common and popular in the 1950s and 1960s and there was a wealth of fabrication capability available in Preston. Lawrie designed and made pretty much everything else that was possible to do, to bring in some money. Invalid cars would have been a natural addition to the range.

I must look into this...

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1345285

 

or this one where Larmar gets it up the proverbial https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C6132784

and so on  

 

ok so they dont hold anything nice and properly juicy like "heres a nice convenient list of all the registration and chassis numbers of all the vehicles the MoH/DHSS bought between 1948-1978" I dont think sadly

but still safe to say when they start taking requests again I think ill ask about getting Digital copies of some of these especially as the pricing seems very reasonable

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documents/record-copying-prices-february-2019.pdf

[bobdisk]

13 hours ago, OldBlokeInACaravan said:

Video here: https://m.facebook.com/toooldfordiscotooyoungforbingo?mds=%2Fedit%2Fpost%2Fdialog%2F%3Fcid%3DS%3A_I611022730%3A10159043186222731%26ct%3D2%26nodeID%3Du_0_6d_tI%26redir%3D%2Fstory_chevron_menu%2F%3Fis_menu_registered%3Dfalse%26loc%3Dtimeline&mdf=1

 

They want you to log on to see it. Dont have a slapyourfacebook account, and dont want one.

[OldBlokeInACaravan]

10 hours ago, bobdisk said:

They want you to log on to see it. Dont have a slapyourfacebook account, and dont want one.

I tried to upload it on here but it wasn't having it, sorry.

[OldBlokeInACaravan]

I noticed the Harding on Ebay ended up at £1,305 !    Going up over a grand in ten minutes..... that's a heck of a lot of money for some bits of rare alloy and a seized engine!! Hope it goes to a good home though! 

[LightBulbFun]

On 06/04/2021 at 14:26, LightBulbFun said:

Whoa! check it out another full bodied Harding Consort! it will be very interesting to hear stuart has to say about it!  

especially if it really is from 1955 since his small book mentions them only being introduced in 1956!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164798448899

 

 

On 07/04/2021 at 14:16, LightBulbFun said:

Yeah! stuart says the seat is not original but that red and green suits it  

 

speaking of this harding just got off a phone call with the chap who owns it (his nephew is selling it for him)

and its very exciting, all its details check out! it is indeed registered as a Harding Consort on the buff logbook, and was registered in June 1955 which fits with the May 1955 advertisement we have

and most excitingly it was factory registered! me and stuart noticed it was Bath registered and wondered if it was factory registered and or a factory demonstrator of some sort

and indeed the 1st Keeper was R A Harding (Bath) Ltd  so thats quite exciting! 

I have to wonder if its the very first Consort? I have a chassis number and it checks out as a Harding chassis number but due to how harding chassis numbers worked it does not concessively tell us if this is number 1 or not sadly

said nice chap said his father got it for him when he was 12 to run around in several decades ago, and the chap is confident it will run again! he just wants it to find a good home so hopefully it will!

he says its all there just needs some love!

 

but yeah there is a buff logbook for it which should make registering it a doddle hopefully, and its a good thing there is as I dont think the Bath registration records this late exist otherwise sadly,

(from what I can tell this Consort was last on the Road December 1967, so it wont be on any DVLA computer system I dont think!)

but nothing a V765 and V55/5 in conjunction with the buff logbook cant solve  

Just went for £1305! bet the seller is glad  (and I am very glad) he never went through with his original  plan which was to rip the Villiers out of it and get rid of the rest!

 

so which one of you mad bastards won it then?  

[barrett]

Seen on facebook without context... Assume it's a 'known' car, but a good photo nonetheless (Looks like other AC products in the background, wonder what the story was?)

[Jon]

Just found this image in Flickr (I think the image is the link to the page):

 

 

 

As a side note, this is from Stephen Trinder, a Christchurch NZ based car/abandoned sofa spotter, who has a beautiful eye for imagery. Absolutely worth several hours flicking through his photos, though it seems he may have been UK based 40 odd years ago, judging by a few images like these I've come across.

 

 

[LightBulbFun]

1 hour ago, barrett said:

Seen on facebook without context... Assume it's a 'known' car, but a good photo nonetheless (Looks like other AC products in the background, wonder what the story was?)

indeed thats Simons AC Model 64 Mk5 before it was stuck on ebay and he got it, I suspect its real registration mark is LPA358K but I still need to get a couple more details before I can 100% say it is LPA358K but im pretty positive it is

its the only AC Model 64 Mk5 known to survive, in-fact until I pushed Simon to actually get me some details (like a photograph of its a chassis plate) me and stuart had no idea the AC Model 64 Mk5 was a thing until I got those details, so that was quite fun  

although to be fair it should of been bloody obvious from this ebay listing Photograph!

(although I do wish another Mk5 existed somewhere so I Could get a picture of its chassis plate as that would very much help with IDing this one!)

sadly I dont know its history before it showed up on ebay and went to simon

[AdgeCutler]

First trial outrigger was presented to me earlier today, it is a great job. One small aspect was not perfect when offered up as the lower part of the 1 1/2" radius does not contact the centre spar, this will be rectified with the final products. It is also around 1/32" over length between radii but I have opted to keep this as is and hand finish the smaller radius to achieve perfect length.

[LightBulbFun]

11 minutes ago, Jon said:

Just found this image in Flickr (I think the image is the link to the page):

 

 

 

As a side note, this is from Stephen Trinder, a Christchurch NZ based car/abandoned sofa spotter, who has a beautiful eye for imagery. Absolutely worth several hours flicking through his photos, though it seems he may have been UK based 40 odd years ago, judging by a few images like these I've come across.

 

 

ah yeah I came across that one a while back, I have a good collection of various Invalid vehicle photographs like that that I need to figure out a good excuse to post  (which Ill probably do soon for as an idea for something)

but I appreciate the heads up tis a neat photo indeed  

[LightBulbFun]

3 minutes ago, AdgeCutler said:

First trial outrigger was presented to me earlier today, it is a great job. One small aspect was not perfect when offered up as the lower part of the 1 1/2" radius does not contact the centre spar, this will be rectified with the final products. It is also around 1/32" over length between radii but I have opted to keep this as is and hand finish the smaller radius to achieve perfect length.

very awesome! that outrigger looks perfect!

its really amazing to and awesome see such work go into saving an Invacar Mk12 like this 

my cap is truly doffed  

 

now you just need to get a production line going for the 30 or so other Invacar Mk12's out there that will probably need new outriggers not the least @Mrs6C's!  

[AdgeCutler]

2 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

very awesome! that outrigger looks perfect!

its really amazing to and awesome see such work go into saving an Invacar Mk12 like this 

my cap is truly doffed  

 

now you just need to get a production line going for the 30 or so other Invacar Mk12's out there that will probably need new outriggers not the least @Mrs6C's!  

And you are a good part of it Dez, providing inspiration and information along the way. My thanks are to you.

There are eight outriggers being made, probably right now.

[LightBulbFun]

9 minutes ago, AdgeCutler said:

And you are a good part of it Dez, providing inspiration and information along the way. My thanks are to you.

There are eight outriggers being made, probably right now.

Thanks im happy to hear that I am good for something!  I certainly very much enjoy it!  

and thats awesome to hear I look forward to seeing the rest!

 

do you know what the plan is for the rear chassis/suspension cradle thingy whatever its called!, is that going to have to be remanufactured, or is that good enough to clean up and bolt to the main remanufactured new central backbone and outriggers?  

[AdgeCutler]

5 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

Thanks im happy to hear that I am good for something!  I certainly very much enjoy it!  

and thats awesome to hear I look forward to seeing the rest!

 

do you know what the plan is for the rear chassis/suspension cradle thingy whatever its called!, is that going to have to be remanufactured, or is that good enough to clean up and bolt to the main remanufactured new central backbone and outriggers?  

All of the suspension arms, engine cradle are good to go again, they'll be shot blasted and re-painted. There are also a good few brackets and struts that will be severed from the old chassis and re-used after having been sure to take accurate measurements and probably a few jigs to assist with alignment. There are thre other components I will probably send with drawings to the firm making the outriggers. First a left/right pair of angled brackets that Nickle Bronze weld to the transverse  tube of the chassis (these are specific to the 12e) and are what the floor and front body panel bolt to and secondly the angle bracket which bolts onto the tail end of the central spar, this is where the rear of the back body panel mounts.

[Mr Pastry]

@AdgeCutlerGreat work on the chassis, watching it with interest.  Are you really going to nickel-bronze it - do you know how much the stuff costs?   Normal Sifbronze would be a lot cheaper, and just as strong.

 

[AdgeCutler]

10 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

@AdgeCutlerGreat work on the chassis, watching it with interest.  Are you really going to nickel-bronze it - do you know how much the stuff costs?   Normal Sifbronze would be a lot cheaper, and just as strong.

I'm off in the next few days to receive some tuition on gas welding having only previously stick or Mig welded. Hopefully I shall also pick up some of the terminology and theory of such methods. I have previously been told by my mate that it was originally in Nickle Bronze and so that is what we shall replicate, upon my asking him what I needed to purchase he just asked I got some goggles and he would supply the rest. We are all a bunch of skip Rats down here, costs are kept minimal due to the wastage of modern life. 

I shall ask those in the know about the differences of SifBronze and Nickle Bronze when in my lessons!

 

[AdgeCutler]

21 hours ago, AdgeCutler said:

 

Had a bit of tuition on the welding today, all seems to be quite simple and hopefully I find it so in practice. You are not wrong about the Nickle Bronze rods being expensive @Mr Pastry but I now have some on order. Sadly none were to be found in my mates cabinet but we spoke about the differences, and that the Nickle Bronze rods (SIFBronze no. 2) give a joint that is more resistant to fatigue and shock than normal Silicon Bronze rods. This is why they are used on motorcycle frames and race cars, this, for the sake of originality and to keep Mr. Greeves on side I am going to use them.

We did also confirm the Invacars welds are of the Nickle Bronze variety, sadly this time around the government will not be paying.

[LightBulbFun]

On 27/08/2020 at 14:25, B4lljoints said:

And here's something for @dollywobbler

 

On 27/08/2020 at 23:44, Mrs6C said:

Calling @LightBulbFun!

 

On 27/08/2020 at 23:55, LightBulbFun said:

oh thats very cool a cutaway drawing of a Villiers invalid vehicle, dont see many of those, the specific vehicle shown is a AC Acedes Mk15 (Model 67) and its the first cutaway drawing I have seen of that type  

do you know when the publication it is in dates to? (the AC Acedes Mk15 (Model 67) was produced from about June 1969 to March 1971)

interesting to note that it shows the roof guttering only going along the tops of the window frame, which is a Mk14/Mk14A feature, all the Mk15's I have have it going the full length of the window frame, but its clearly a drawing of a Mk15 due to the prominent parallelogram front suspension

and also the front tow bar is missing again a feature of the Mk15, have to wonder is it a drawing of a prototype/development machine?

 

On 28/08/2020 at 00:24, Mr Laurence said:

My copy says the first edition was published in 1970, so right in the middle of those two dates

 

On 28/08/2020 at 00:36, LightBulbFun said:

interesting   perhaps the missing tow bar/incomplete roof guttering are just an oversight of the drawing, but it is a fairly detailed drawing so i do wonder

especially as it stops exactly where it stops on a Mk14 (on a Mk15 they go all the way down the side of the window) 

(and I recall the Mk14 having a slightly diffrent control layout, but ill have to double check when im on the main computer tomorrow) 

of course it may be a drawing of a Mk14, but im pretty positive thats parallelogram front suspension compared to the C tube suspension of the Mk14

sadly there are very few detailed photos of Model 67's out there so it makes IDing things a bit tricky sometimes

dragging this back up/over here as I have just came across the same drawing

in a tweet from 2018! https://twitter.com/ThePollitt/status/1070037167341228043 and It was bugging me as I KNEW I had seen it before here on Autoshite, and after a good bit of digging 

I finally found where I had seen it before  Just was not in this thread! https://autoshite.com/topic/42020-the-autoshite-association/?tab=comments#comment-2122367

(Parallelogram front suspension being the Key word as to how I found it again LOL)

 

 

I do still wonder about the Mk14 style guttering/lack of tow bar, on what is quite clearly an AC Acedes Mk15 which should have full length guttering and a tow bar

(that is 100% parallelogram front suspension now I have had a good look at various PFS and older C-Tube vehicles)

 

(also I know im a little* late but @dollywobbler it does only have 1 door not 2!  apart from the fact it is a Model 67 which had 1 door, notice the glove pocket on the dummy door which would not work with a real sliding door)

 

[AdgeCutler]

In my search for shock absorbers so far I have sadly reached a blank in looking for units suitable for Brian the Mk12e, we shall prevail. However, I have uncovered some NOS model 70 SPAX replacement units should anyone want some?

[LightBulbFun]

7 minutes ago, AdgeCutler said:

In my search for shock absorbers so far I have sadly reached a blank in looking for units suitable for Brian the Mk12e, we shall prevail. However, I have uncovered some NOS model 70 SPAX replacement units should anyone want some?

for the front, the Invacar Mk12E and Model 70 use the same shock/coilover assembly so if you can find a STY197 that should sort you out for the front at least!  

do you know how much your source wants for the Model 70 shocks they have? I dont THINK I need any but if certainly would not hurt to add some to the spares stash just incase!

 

heres a couple write-ups I did on Model 70 shocks when I came across those letters for the first time  

On 14/06/2020 at 19:11, LightBulbFun said:

continuing the exciting/interesting Model 70 news, @st185cs shared with me just now this rather interesting letter he found with a NOS Front Coil-over he has in his personal spares stash

its very interesting to me, because It answers a few questions I had

in that my research showed me that, although most Model 70's today have Adjustable spax's fitted all round (including REV AFAIK!) that the Model 70 would have originally equipped with armstrong shocks all round, indicating the Spax's would have been a later in life fitment 

so I had wondered what exactly was the deal there, being adjustable, where they preset from the factory/DHSS Stores, or did the AR have to adjust them to spec before fitting them?

It would be interesting to see the same letter for the rear spax shocks, but we have not come across one yet sadly

the box for the coil-over as well as having the DHSS Store No on it STY197 has what looks to be the spax part number? on it

I wonder if spax has any info on these Model 70 shocks still?  it would also be interesting to hear if anyone familiar with Spax shocks has anything to say on it all  

 

 

 

On 29/06/2020 at 21:11, LightBulbFun said:

continuing the shocks stuff @st185cs has just managed to unearth the same paperwork but for the rear shocks this time  

its interesting to see that the rears are set to 7 clicks clockwise compared to 5 clicks clockwise of the front shock

obviously they are not the same type so its not going to be directly comparable but its still interesting to see  and makes sense the rears would be firmer then the front as the rear is where most of the weight is

I wonder @st185cs do you happen to have the box of one of the rear spax shocks may have come in? would be interesting to see what its Spax part number is (well at least I assume on the front shocks in my quoted post that "G81AZ-EK" is the spax PN for them, along with the STY number of course which I know is the DHSS Store No/PN for them)

as a side note its interesting to note that STY228 is not actually listed in my Parts list but is listed in the index sheet at the end go figure!

its also interesting to note that it has the same 5 Dec 1991 date as the letter for the rear shocks which further makes me think that is when Spax shocks where introduced, and helps gives me some rough idea of when REV (and other Model 70's) was last fettled because she is fitted with Spax shocks all round IIRC!  

[Mrs6C]

7 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

quite clearly an AC Acedes Mk15 which should have full length guttering and a tow bar

I noticed it appears to have the same handbrake and handbrake release mechanism as Dolly...

[LightBulbFun]

4 hours ago, Mrs6C said:

I noticed it appears to have the same handbrake and handbrake release mechanism as Dolly...

similar probably, but not the same, one of those will also be a gear change lever on a Model 67, Im just not sure which sadly!

(only about 12 Model 67's of all Marks are known to survive so detailed photos etc sadly are very scarce, so im still not 100% sure on what does what on the controls of a Model 67, I still have never actually seen the chassis plate of one even sadly!)

[LightBulbFun]

Finally managed to get another driving lesson in today!

was very pleased to be back behind the wheel again! although clearly am a little rusty hopefully ill clear up with use LOL

turned out she had a different car this time, although I dont know if its hanging around or not, but was some blue 68 plate Suzuki thing I failed to get a picture of, ill make sure to grab a picture next time

still just as painful to drive as the Peugeot 208 before it sadly, although I still need to see if I can fine tune the seating position etc

it also has a 20-40-60 speedo which I really dont like as the non numbered 30-50 etc markers are small and white on a silver background so you cant really see them very well, which I dont like at all! I like to know what speed im doing without having to stare into the speedo like im trying to hypnotise it, as I also like to look at the road and at least see which idiot is running/pulling out in front of me (a couple pedestrians, a UPS van, and a guy doing an unsafe over take this time round, the UPS Van at least had the decency to apologies with his hazards LOL but having a car barrelling towards you on the wrong side of the road is not fun LOL)

the instructor said feel free to use the online thing she setup to book lessons myself according to whatever times that are available and suit me, so I have got my next lesson booked for the 20th  

[Mrs6C]

2 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

Finally managed to get another driving lesson in today!

Huzzah!!!

[Mrs6C]

2 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

I like to know what speed im doing without having to stare into the speedo

Don't worry about seeing the numbers, just follow the speedo needle. If it is pointing midway between 20 and 40, which you can see more clearly, then that's your 30. You don't need to read that it's '30'.

[LightBulbFun]

in invalid carriage news pleased to report that I have been contacted by the newer owner of both RDE346 the Stanley Argson that showed up last month and the Harding Consort that showed up more recently  

and he has kindly allowed me to share some of his pictures to my thread

 

he has already done a smashing job on the Stanley Argson, and has it moving under its own power already (although is battling some electrical issues so only running on 24V instead of the full 36V currently)

which keep in mind in March looked like this 

so I am very much looking forward to seeing how he gets on the Consort  

which he has already given a clean and is looking better already

he also very kindly provided me with full scans of its buff logbook which has been very interesting to study, if it had 1 more keeper change a Continuation book would of been issued and we would have never known for sure that this one was registered to harding themselves for the first little while, so we got lucky there!

 

[LightBulbFun]

in the above harding news the owner has stripped it down to fix it up and hopefully put it back together again  

quite interesting to see one in its component form like this  

 

and speaking of disassembled Invalid vehicles, Adam and his buddies have been working on and making very good progress with KPL139P's chassis, got it blasted and is now fabricating patches/repair sections where needed

including a nice new chassis outriggers and fuel tank mounting frame to replace the old lot which was hacked off/about

 

I have been given lots of photographs, and its been very interesting to see a Model 70 Chassis in such detail  (he even found a mystery 3 digit number stamped somewhere else on the chassis, which I have never seen it before! will be interesting to see if its there on his other Model 70's and see if I can figure out if it means anything)

 

once KPL's chassis is fixed cleaned up and painted etc I believe the plan is to re body it with TPE376S's Body (and maybe driveline, im not sure if its yet been deemed salvageable or not)

so against literally almost all the odds it looks like KPL139P will ride again I wonder how many people would have thought that when she was minus a driveline and missing most body work!

 

so yeah all really quite exciting to see and very awesome to see a Model 70 get some thorough attention like this  

(and in general along with @AdgeCutler's awesome work its gotten very restoration heavy all of sudden in the World of Autoshite invalid vehicles which is very awesome to see  ) 

[LightBulbFun]

work on KPL's chassis is now complete  (just needs injecting with rust proofing)

plan now is to start reassembling things and hopefully recreate this shot

then continue onwards to fully building her up to a complete car again

although he does need a pair of rear shocks if anyones got any going spare! (perhaps @AdgeCutler he did mention he had some fronts so maybe you can work out some sort of exchange with him, maybe if you have found some rears you can swap a pair for a front for the Mk12 ) 

[AdgeCutler]

It would be good to get a hold of a front suspension unit if there is a spare to be had, I've not had a reply to my Email to the chap with the model 70 rears but I did enquire after a price.

I collected the two sets of Mk12 chassis components this morning , one for Brian and a set for another lucky Mk12. They are very nice and with very minor fettling by hand make a perfect fit, a really nice job was made of Tig welding the flanges onto the large radii too. The other two components I've not mentioned before but that are pictured are the rear end body mounting brackets that bolt to the end of the centre spar of the Chassis.

[500tops]

LBF, 

 

I think i missed who the current owner of KPL is.  Can you point me in the direction so I can get up to speed?