invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[red5]

[AdgeCutler]

First decent run in the dark for Brian tonight after attending a brilliant “meet” at Sharpness. There were many cars, commercials, motorbikes and tractors, as always the Invacar received a huge amount of interest. Most importantly the dynamo and regulator performed without fault. 

[LightBulbFun]

  On 16/08/2023 at 19:51, red5 said:

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Yep I have seen that photo many times  , it applies to one of these

but not one of these

they are 2 completely different class of vehicles in the eyes of the law 

 

 

[High Jetter]

  On 16/08/2023 at 19:51, red5 said:

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Too many hyphens, and I wonder which animals would understand the prohibition?

[LightBulbFun]

  On 16/08/2023 at 21:09, AdgeCutler said:

First decent run in the dark for Brian tonight after attending a brilliant “meet” at Sharpness. There were many cars, commercials, motorbikes and tractors, as always the Invacar received a huge amount of interest. Most importantly the dynamo and regulator performed without fault. 

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Awesome to see Brian out and about as always, and Lovely after-dark shot! there aint many photos of Invacars out and about at night, so its always fun to see a photo when one is  

[High Jetter]

  On 16/08/2023 at 21:09, AdgeCutler said:

First decent run in the dark for Brian tonight after attending a brilliant “meet” at Sharpness. There were many cars, commercials, motorbikes and tractors, as always the Invacar received a huge amount of interest. Most importantly the dynamo and regulator performed without fault. 

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Looks great, rare to see after dark. (OK, even rarer)

[FakeConcern]

  On 16/08/2023 at 21:14, LightBulbFun said:

Yep I have seen that photo many times  , it applies to one of these

but not one of these

they are 2 completely different class of vehicles in the eyes of the law 

 

 

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I found this old (1983) Highway Code when looking for something else and this is what it says about Invalid Carriages on Motorways...

I imagine the Invacar must weigh more than 5 cwt unladen?

[martc]

  On 16/08/2023 at 21:16, High Jetter said:

Too many hyphens, and I wonder which animals would understand the prohibition?

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Not badgers. Or swans.

[Sham]

Google suggests a model 70 is approx 400Kg unladen depending on adaptations and 5cwt is ~250Kg. 

As you said, LBF, the only reason one can't be on the motorway is if its being driven by a moron - the same driver in a Mercedes S class would be kicked off too.

[LightBulbFun]

  On 17/08/2023 at 10:44, FakeConcern said:

I found this old (1983) Highway Code when looking for something else and this is what it says about Invalid Carriages on Motorways...

I imagine the Invacar must weigh more than 5 cwt unladen?

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  On 17/08/2023 at 11:07, Sham said:

Google suggests a model 70 is approx 400Kg unladen depending on adaptations and 5cwt is ~250Kg. 

As you said, LBF, the only reason one can't be on the motorway is if its being driven by a moron - the same driver in a Mercedes S class would be kicked off too.

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Ding Ding Ding!  

indeed most full bodied invalid vehicles even ones that pre-date the motorway network like the 1957 AC Acedes, weigh more then 5 cwt (254Kg) the later Villiers machines where built to 6 Cwt specifications and the Model 70 was built to 8 Cwt specifications 

and if the logbook of Various Invacar Model 70's are to go by, the later Model 70's where even heavier then 8 Cwt by a few Kg (406Kg vs 413.2Kg) which would push them into legally being Motor Cars rather then Motor cycles (the law states that if a carriage for invalid's weighs more then 254Kg, but has fewer then 4 wheels and no more then 410Kg, it is legally for the RTA and RTRA etc, a Motor cycle, if it has more then 3 wheels or weighs more then 410 Kg it is legally a motor car)

but I have not yet been able to get anyone to actually weigh a few different Model 70's to figure out how the actual figures correspond

 

[SiC]

Did the users of Invacares need a driving license? If so car or bike licence (because 3 wheels)? And what happened to those who were disabled before they got a licence?

[plasticvandan]

Back then either a car or motorcycle licence would have covered,tho I disntinctly remember my grandad telling me he had invalid carriage on his licence as.he had to take a test so he could teach others to drive them and fetch them in for repair/road test.

[egg]

I've just checked this, but driving tests were paused during WW2, and I think some people who learned to drive in the services never passed an actual civilian driving test as they had it converted to a normal licence after the war. But sources for this are sketchy, so happy to be corrected. This will have no doubt included injured veterans (who were big users of invalid carriages - which makes the nicknames for the vehicles even more insulting to those who lost mobility on active service).

[wuvvum]

  On 17/08/2023 at 16:40, egg said:

I've just checked this, but driving tests were paused during WW2, and I think some people who learned to drive in the services never passed an actual civilian driving test as they had it converted to a normal licence after the war. But sources for this are sketchy, so happy to be corrected.

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That's how my grandma got her licence.  She would never have passed a driving test.

[LightBulbFun]

  On 17/08/2023 at 15:00, SiC said:

Did the users of Invacares need a driving license? If so car or bike licence (because 3 wheels)? And what happened to those who were disabled before they got a licence?

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Yes you would apply for a provisional licence, ran around on L plates, and then eventually took an invalid carriage driving test, it was Category J in old Money,  and B1 (Invalid Carriages) in Modern parlance

on the Ministry side, they would provide you with a driving instructor, who would get crammed into the carriage with you for the first few lessons

here is a good period account of the process  

the weight limits for an Invalid carriage driving licence is 10 Cwt or 508 Kg

 

[plasticvandan]

Indeed,my grandad used to have to sit crouched where the wheelchair would go while loosely holding the tiller (pre model 70days) as they invariably ended up in hedges or on the pavement as they got to grips with driving it.he was also given his licence to drive almost everything by the REME during his national service,his test consisted of driving a Scammell forwards and backwards and doing a three point turn.drove until he died in 2019 having never took a test.

[High Jetter]

  On 17/08/2023 at 20:40, plasticvandan said:

Indeed,my grandad used to have to sit crouched where the wheelchair would go while loosely holding the tiller (pre model 70days) as they invariably ended up in hedges or on the pavement as they got to grips with driving it.he was also given his licence to drive almost everything by the REME during his national service,his test consisted of driving a Scammell forwards and backwards and doing a three point turn.drove until he died in 2019 having never took a test.

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As many did, with intelligence.

[warren t claim]

  On 17/08/2023 at 17:04, LightBulbFun said:

Yes you would apply for a provisional licence, ran around on L plates, and then eventually took an invalid carriage driving test, it was Category J in old Money,  and B1 (Invalid Carriages) in Modern parlance

on the Ministry side, they would provide you with a driving instructor, who would get crammed into the carriage with you for the first few lessons

here is a good period account of the process  

the weight limits for an Invalid carriage driving licence is 10 Cwt or 508 Kg

 

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What's the point of taking the test anyway? It's not as if you can carry passengers in an Invacare? And anyway, what other vehicles would that entitle you to drive?

I assume that the driving test was the same as the Frank Spencer Some Mother's Do 'ave 'em bike test that old cunts like me took back in the late '80? Once around the block, U turn and emergency stop all while being watched by the examiner from the kerbside?

 

[warren t claim]

  On 17/08/2023 at 21:46, warren t claim said:

What's the point of taking the test anyway? It's not as if you can carry passengers in an Invacare? And anyway, what other vehicles would that entitle you to drive?

I assume that the driving test was the same as the Frank Spencer Some Mother's Do 'ave 'em bike test that old cunts like me took back in the late '80? Once around the block, U turn and emergency stop all while being watched by the examiner from the kerbside?

 

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In fact, has anyone here ever taken a tractor driving test?

[JJ0063]

  On 17/08/2023 at 21:47, warren t claim said:

In fact, has anyone here ever taken a tractor driving test?

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Tractor and telehandler. Was part of my college course as I went to a proper agricultural college! 
 

[High Jetter]

  On 17/08/2023 at 21:49, JJ0063 said:

Tractor and telehandler. Was part of my college course as I went to a proper agricultural college! 
 

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Posh git! Not needed in Eire, dad teaches you at 12yo

[warren t claim]

  On 17/08/2023 at 21:49, JJ0063 said:

Tractor and telehandler. Was part of my college course as I went to a proper agricultural college! 
 

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FUCKING TANGENT ALERT

When I drove trucks my agency tried to send me on a job driving a JCB Fastrac and trailer because apparently my Class 1 allowed me to drive one as long as it wasn't for agricultural use?

[JJ0063]

  On 17/08/2023 at 21:53, High Jetter said:

Posh git! Not needed in Eire, dad teaches you at 12yo

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I must admit the first ‘lesson’ was my lecturer giving me the key to a Massey 35 with a bucket and telling us to take it in turns to move a pile of horse shit from the equine yard to the next field along. 
 

I was the only one he trusted to go unsupervised as I started a year later than the other lads so they all turned up on Honda Cubs and I had a Citroen AX so was elite.

[warren t claim]

  On 17/08/2023 at 21:54, warren t claim said:

FUCKING TANGENT ALERT

When I drove trucks my agency tried to send me on a job driving a JCB Fastrac and trailer because apparently my Class 1 allowed me to drive one as long as it wasn't for agricultural use?

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When I told my agency that I can't drive one of those their reply was "We've checked your licence and yes you can". 

I had to educate him on the difference between being legally entitled to drive one and having the slightest clue how to operate one.

[LightBulbFun]

  On 17/08/2023 at 21:54, warren t claim said:

FUCKING TANGENT ALERT

When I drove trucks my agency tried to send me on a job driving a JCB Fastrac and trailer because apparently my Class 1 allowed me to drive one as long as it wasn't for agricultural use?

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ya get a tractor entitlement (along with a couple other ones) when you pass your main car driving test/get a full B licence

 

so for example I can hop into a Grey Fergie and terrorize the mean streets of Hackney right now if I wanted to LOL (if I had a Grey Fergie that is)

[warren t claim]

  On 17/08/2023 at 21:59, LightBulbFun said:

ya get a tractor entitlement (along with a couple other ones) when you pass your main car driving

 

so for example I can hop into a Grey Fergie and terrorize the mean streets of Hackney right now if I wanted to LOL (if I had a Grey Fergie that is)

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I'd happily ride this Fergie in public.

[JJ0063]

  On 17/08/2023 at 21:59, LightBulbFun said:

ya get a tractor entitlement (along with a couple other ones) when you pass your main car driving test/get a full B licence

 

so for example I can hop into a Grey Fergie and terrorize the mean streets of Hackney right now if I wanted to LOL (if I had a Grey Fergie that is)

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Have you ever considered chopping the Invacare in for a tractor? Many similar characteristics if you think about it and most definitely more reliable. 
 

EDIT: I think we’re onto something you know, this repainted in Invacare blue and you’re away!

[warren t claim]

  On 17/08/2023 at 22:04, JJ0063 said:

Have you ever considered chopping the Invacare in for a tractor? Many similar characteristics if you think about it and most definitely more reliable. 

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I watched a video somewhere about a lad who is doing just that because it's the only vehicle he can afford to insure.

[High Jetter]

  On 17/08/2023 at 21:53, High Jetter said:

Posh git! Not needed in Eire, dad teaches you at 12yo

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Ah. Yer own field(s) helps in this.

[JJ0063]

  On 17/08/2023 at 22:08, warren t claim said:

I watched a video somewhere about a lad who is doing just that because it's the only vehicle he can afford to insure.

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I knew a lad about 15 years ago who used to daily drive an early 80s David Brown tractor at 16. Came from a farming family, took his test at 16 and used to drive from (if you know the area) Downham Market, to Norwich and back 3 times a week. Took him hours 😂